Hawaiian Announces Plans To Acquire 4 More 767s

Trvlr · Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:38 pm

No word yet on network expansion.

-Aaron G.

Hawaiian Airlines Announces Wide-Body Fleet Expansion
Tuesday February 14, 8:00 am ET

HONOLULU, Feb. 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Hawaiian Airlines (Amex: HA; PCX) announced today that it has signed letters of intent to acquire four additional Boeing 767-300 aircraft, which will bring its long-haul fleet to a total of 18 of the wide-body aircraft. The company expects to introduce these aircraft into service after necessary modification work has been completed. The expected dates of introduction and the additional services these aircraft will operate will be announced at a later date.

"This expansion is great news for our company, our employees -- especially those we will be able to recall from furlough -- and for Hawaii tourism," said Mark Dunkerley, president and chief executive officer.

The four 767-300 aircraft Hawaiian will acquire were previously operated by Delta Airlines, which rejected its leases on the aircraft in conjunction with its ongoing Chapter 11 reorganization. Each will be overhauled and outfitted in Hawaiian's standard interior configuration, including 18 seats in First Class and 242 seats in Coach. The letters of intent are subject to certain closing conditions.

kc135topboom · Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:09 am

Since this is Hawaiian we are talking about, I assume these are really B-767-300ERs, and not B-767-300s like the artical says. DL flys both types.

How many other airplanes, and what types will DL return to lease holders?

Has TZ given up on trying to find GE equipped B-767-300ERs? Or have they settled on completing "D" checks on all of their L-1011-500?

B742 · Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:09 am

Good to see HA getting some more a/c Smile

Will the 763's feature the 777 interiors like H587HA?

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Erik Nugal

Is HA in a finacial postiton to maybe order some 787/A350's?

Where will these additional aicraft be used to?

Rob! wave

Flying-Tiger · Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:14 am

Suppose they have learned from their Chapter 11 experience that it does not necessarily make sense to order shiny new planes every year. Their 767s are mostly quite young, and there shouldn't be any real need for them to order the 787 or 350 anytime soon - and there will be quite a few 767s available in the coming years.

Still, if it happens their choice will depend on how the market itself has and will develop. Stronger growth will be a plus for the slightly larger A350, less growth for the 787. And we shouldn't forget that quite some bc exit financing came from Boeing Capital IIRC.

BR715-A1-30 · Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:39 am

Which of Hawaiian's 767s are new/were acquired new directly from Boeing... If I remember correctly, it was 580-582 and 587-595... But I just wanted to be sure.

avi8tir · Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:40 am

I thought these 763's that Delta gave back were non -ER versions. Can anyone confirm this? I think they are all sitting in VCV right now.

flydl2atl · Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:52 am

If I recall Delta has 4 Non-ER 767s that have P&W engines...different from there other 24. I believe these are the 4 that HA is picking up.

goCOgo · Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:54 am

Quoting Avi8tir (Reply 5):
I thought these 763's that Delta gave back were non -ER versions. Can anyone confirm this? I think they are all sitting in VCV right now.

That was my thought, too, but I don't know for sure. The 4230nm range of the non-ERs should be plenty for their west coast destinations. It could still free-up ERs for longer range destinations.

So, any ideas if the expansion will be on the west coast to already served markets, new markets in the west, or new markets in the midwest, south, or east coast?

rj777 · Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:02 am

I wonder if HA will buy 777s or 787s?

b6sea · Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:04 am

Quoting GoCOgo (Reply 7):
So, any ideas if the expansion will be on the west coast to already served markets, new markets in the west, or new markets in the midwest, south, or east coast?

I've heard talk of JFK and ORD, but I personally think you'll see more asia routes (KIX, NGO, HKG, NRT-probably no way they'll get slots). Or MEL is a possibility. I know some people who went to Australia last summer on HA from SEA and just transferred in HNL, said it was a decent flight and better than transferring in LAX, so maybe they have a small niche in Transpac. flights.

-Chans

wjcandee · Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:18 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 1):
Has TZ given up on trying to find GE equipped B-767-300ERs? Or have they settled on completing "D" checks on all of their L-1011-500?

I don't think that this is an either/or situation. I'm pretty sure that the latest from ATA is that one of their 5 L1011s (the non-500, 194AT) is being retired Feb. 28, as it has the old engines (-22B) which are not widely available. Two of the -500s should be good to go for some time, having just been D-checked (one of those, 163AT, should be finishing up the D-check and back shortly if it isn't already). The other two have some time before this will become an issue for them. I believe that if ATA can find one or more 767-300ERs at a price that works for them, they will lease them rather than D-check any more L1011s.

Bluewave 707 · Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:59 am

That is great news for HA! Guess the reg#s will be N594HA - N597HA?

This will be a great opportunity for HA to re-instate the red-eye to LAX, which discontinued; and increased frequencies to other cities as well.

L-188 · Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:15 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 2):
Is HA in a finacial postiton to maybe order some 787/A350's?

Why, prices on 767's in the used marked should be headed down as they are retired from other carriers in chap 11....like Delta.

LN-MOW · Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:26 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 12):
Why, prices on 767's in the used marked should be headed down as they are retired from other carriers in chap 11....like Delta.

Not all that many 763ER's on the market ...
But if ATA ever lands any, your assumption will at that point be correct! pessimist

c680 · Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:57 am

HA is being smart here. Most normal folks are concerned about the fare more than anything else. The non -ER 767-300 planes are perfect for HA's west coast flights, and I'm sure the price was right. Who needs brand new iron when there are excellent planes on the secondary market? Besides, 4000+ nm is still a very long range. We have just gotten accustomed to seeing super long range planes being made by Boeing and Airbus.

From the looks of it, the 763 works well for HA.

HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) LAX (33°56'33"N 118°24'29"W) 2221 nm
HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) LAS (36°04'49"N 115°09'08"W) 2400 nm
HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) NRT (35°45'53"N 140°23'11"E) 3318 nm
HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) ORD (41°58'43"N 87°54'17"W) 3688 nm
Boeing 767-300 Range 4230 nm
HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) JFK (40°38'23"N 73°46'44"W) 4330 nm
HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) SYD (33°56'46"S 151°10'38"E) 4403 nm
Boeing 767-300ER range 5500 nm

Heck, most trans-Atlantic runs are less than 4000 nm!
IAD (38°56'40"N 77°27'21"W) CDG (49°00'35"N 02°32'52"E) 3355 nm
JFK (40°38'23"N 73°46'44"W) LHR (51°28'39"N 00°27'41"W) 2999 nm
ORD (41°58'43"N 87°54'17"W) FRA (50°01'35"N 08°32'35"E) 3774 nm

ikramerica · Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:33 am

These planes could fly anywhere in their route system except SYD and ORD/BOS/NYC if they were to start one of those.

HALFA · Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:19 am

Some answers to your questions.

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 4):
Which of Hawaiian's 767s are new/were acquired new directly from Boeing... If I remember correctly, it was 580-582 and 587-595... But I just wanted to be sure.

Your list is almost correct. Hawaiian never took delivery of AC 594-595. A decision with deep regret by management.

Quoting Avi8tir (Reply 5):
I thought these 763's that Delta gave back were non -ER versions. Can anyone confirm this?

You are correct. The 767's that HA will acquire are not ER versions.

Quoting Flydl2atl (Reply 6):
If I recall Delta has 4 Non-ER 767s that have P&W engines...different from there other 24. I believe these are the 4 that HA is picking up.

Hawaiian is getting 4 767's with G.E. engines and not the P&W engines that all of our other 767's have. As our CEO has told the employees in a memo today, beggars can't be choosers!

Quoting Bluewave 707 (Reply 11):
This will be a great opportunity for HA to re-instate the red-eye to LAX, which discontinued; and increased frequencies to other cities as well.

Absolutely! Although the redeye to LAX has already been reinstated. Currently it runs just 3 or 4 days per week but with the addition of 4 more airplanes to the fleet, look for that flight to go daily as well as increasing service on HNL-SEA double daily and a daily SAN-OGG and a few surprises thrown in.

This is GREAT news for HA. To all of our furlough employees out there, welcome back!!!

Complete news release here:

http://investor.hawaiianairlines.com...l-newsArticle&ID=816780&highlight=

Aloha,
HALFA

Trvlr · Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:37 am

It will be good to finally see SAN-OGG go daily year-round. Given the fare structure and loads on the daily SAN-HNL service, I wonder if a second daily is not out of the question.

As far as "surprises" go, I wonder if HA will make a go of the Asian market.

Aaron G.

Magyarorszag · Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:52 am

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 4):
Which of Hawaiian's 767s are new/were acquired new directly from Boeing...

B767-33AER N580HA 28140/850 24/09/2001 "Kolea"
B767-33AER N581HA 28141/857 24/10/2001 "Manu o Ku"
B767-33AER N582HA 28139/853 14/11/2001 "Ake Ake"
B767-33AER N583HA 25531/423 04/03/2002 "A" - ex. D-AMUP.
B767-3G5ER N584HA 24258/255 22/03/2002 "Kioea" - ex. D-AMUS.
B767-3G5ER N585HA 24257/251 11/05/2002 "Noio" - ex. D-AMUR.
B767-3G5ER N586HA 24259/268 01/07/2002 "Ou" - ex. D-AMUN.
B767-33AER N587HA 33421/887 23/09/2002 "Pakalakala"
B767-3CBER N588HA 33466/890 24/10/2002 "Iwa"
B767-33AER N589HA 33422/892 13/11/2002 "Moli"
B767-3CBER N590HA 33467/894 06/12/2002
B767-33AER N591HA 33423/897 16/01/2003 "Ake Keke"
B767-3CBER N592HA 33468/898 03/02/2003 "Hunakai"
B767-33AER N593HA 33424/901 13/03/2003 "Nene"
B767-3G5ER N581LF 28111/612 10/12/2001 - 10/04/2002 ex. D-AMUJ.
B767-33AER N595HA 33425/909 25/06/2003 - 24/02/2005

vegasplanes · Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:32 am

Quoting B6sea (Reply 9):
I know some people who went to Australia last summer on HA from SEA and just transferred in HNL, said it was a decent flight and better than transferring in LAX, so maybe they have a small niche in Transpac. flights.

That really is a strategy that HA should try to exploit more often, HNL is a nice stopping point on a trans-pac flight, for those of us who can't deal with 10-12 flights. This would work well with their existing route system from US West Coast to HA Islands and beyond to Australia/Asia etc. Incremental revenue never hurts.

B6FA4ever · Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:03 am

this is awsome news! hopefully we'll see added service to SAN either an additional frequency to HNL or a year round SAN-OGG flight.

but here's a question for those i'm sure has answers for...

Hawaii in general has great loads to/from: asia, south pacific, and US/Canada...but what about Mexico and S. America? I remember years back (i'm thinking more in the late 80's) that i saw a Mexicana DC-10 in HNL (gold stripes along the fusulage w/ black titles). Did MX have non-stop service to HNL? was it a continuation flight to Asia/Oz?

Will HA ever return to GUM (Guam) or AKL?

pretty much the possibilities are endless. i love working our SAN and SMF flights cause HA is there already when we land and i get to see Pualani!

cheers all...~B6FA4ever

gt1 · Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:20 am

I'm gonna guess DL ship #'s 116, 118, 119, and either 117 or 120. All these aircraft are non-ER, 345,000 lb MTOW, CF6-80A2 engines. I believe they will need to be modified for 180 Min. ETOPS

goCOgo · Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:16 am

Quoting HALFA (Reply 16):
Hawaiian is getting 4 767's with G.E. engines and not the P&W engines that all of our other 767's have.

Quoting Gt1 (Reply 21):
I believe they will need to be modified for 180 Min. ETOPS

Ouch, either HA got them real cheap or they were desperate for new aircraft. They sound like they will be a lot of extra work.

Quoting HALFA (Reply 16):
look for that flight [LAX redeye] to go daily as well as increasing service on HNL-SEA double daily and a daily SAN-OGG and a few surprises thrown in.

Screw that! Come East. The west coast has plenty of opportunities to get to Hawaii. We don't! Big grin

leothedog · Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:41 am

Quoting C680 (Reply 14):
From the looks of it, the 763 works well for HA.

HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) LAX (33°56'33"N 118°24'29"W) 2221 nm
HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) LAS (36°04'49"N 115°09'08"W) 2400 nm
HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) NRT (35°45'53"N 140°23'11"E) 3318 nm
HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) ORD (41°58'43"N 87°54'17"W) 3688 nm
Boeing 767-300 Range 4230 nm
HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) JFK (40°38'23"N 73°46'44"W) 4330 nm
HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) SYD (33°56'46"S 151°10'38"E) 4403 nm
Boeing 767-300ER range 5500 nm

What about HNL - SMF? *Don't want my fair city to be left out*

PanAm747LHR · Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:52 am

Quoting Trvlr (Reply 17):
As far as "surprises" go, I wonder if HA will make a go of the Asian market.

I can't say that I'd be too surprised to see HA try to make a jump in the Japanese market. Given the vast amount of traffic between Japan and Hawaii, I can't imagine that they wouldn't be able to at least pull off NRT or KIX a few times a week. It'll certainly be interesting to see where they end up deploying these aircraft, and if they do indeed use them to open up new markets.

Nick

mkirch72 · Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:00 am

I would really love to see HA come to the East Coast. I really enjoy their product and service and, if they could handle the range, much prefer 10-11 hour flights instead of stopping somewhere in the middle -- especially on the return leg from HNL.

Carpethead · Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:27 am

I doubt HA will get slots at NRT, but service has been cut to FUK & KIX and possibly CTS & SDJ used to have direct links to HNL.

PanAm747LHR · Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:30 am

I agree that it would be good to see HA on the East Coast. I know that CO enjoys very good loads year round on CO14/15 - their non-stop EWR-HNL run. However I wonder if the market can support a second non-stop from the NY area? Maybe they should try the Washington or Boston markets before NY or Chicago, since both have non-stop service already (CO from EWR and UA & AA from ORD.)

Nick

PanAm747 · Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:38 am

Quote:
I know some people who went to Australia last summer on HA from SEA and just transferred in HNL, said it was a decent flight and better than transferring in LAX, so maybe they have a small niche in Transpac. flights.

I have always thought that Hawaiian could pull a lot of west coast traffic to Asia (in addition to its O&D passengers) if they could present HNL as a viable alternative to the ever-crowded SFO and LAX.

If one is flying Phoenix, Las Vegas, Sacramento, or San Diego to Asia, then most, if not all in some cases, of the choices must go through either SFO or LAX. If I knew I had to make a connection somewhere, and HNL was another choice, I would probably choose that, and MAYBE even squeeze in an extended layover on the way back, if I could.

Personally speaking, I think a direct SAN-HNL-MNL flight might make a mint for HA - a very large population of Filipinos in San Diego county drives to LAX to fly PAL. The flights go out EXTREMELY full most of the time, but the complaint is getting up there can be frustrating. If presented with a viable alternative, such as the aforementioned HNL transit, it might convince a large enough population to use the service.

Quote:
It will be good to finally see SAN-OGG go daily year-round. Given the fare structure and loads on the daily SAN-HNL service, I wonder if a second daily is not out of the question.

Hmmm...wonder if that will drive AQ out of the SAN-OGG market...I hope not!!

Quote:
What about HNL - SMF? *Don't want my fair city to be left out*

SMF-HNL = 2462 nm.

TK787 · Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:00 am

Quoting Magyarorszag (Reply 18):
B767-33AER N587HA 33421/887 23/09/2002 "Pakalakala"

Man, this plane name is as good as "Kamanawanaleiu"

centrair · Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:21 am

Quoting B6sea (Reply 9):
I personally think you'll see more asia routes (KIX, NGO, HKG, NRT-probably no way they'll get slots)

Maybe NGO, but we are already kind of over kill with 1 JL 747 and 1 CO 767. I don't think there is the market left here, but it would be nice to have them here.

Quoting B6FA4ever (Reply 20):
Will HA ever return to GUM (Guam)

They would be going head to head with CO wouldn't they? Is there really a market for HNL-GUM or even the through market?

The NW's DTW-NGO flights connect passengers from the mainland US to GUM and SPN on CO and NW. HA would have an uphill against them. Might be better to focus on markets that are underserved.

I would agree with Carpethead and say that KIX, FUK, CTS and SDJ could be best as they are loosing traffic. KIX is loosing more JL flights and other carriers are pulling out. FUK passengers are choosing to not fly Japanese carriers and are going via ICN to connect to the world. CTS and SDJ just need more.

leothedog · Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:18 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 28):
SMF-HNL = 2462 nm.

Thank you, PanAm747.

ha763 · Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:49 am

I was hoping that the 4 aircraft would have the large front cargo door, because the small cargo door plays havoc for cargo planning and loading. It sucks to plan to transfer a pallet only to find out that the aircraft has a small door which then creates a huge backlog. HA only takes LD7s, LD2/LD8s, or loose cargo for transfer cargo. No LD3s.

HA already tried to get NRT slots but couldn't get ones at the right time for the flight to be profitable. AA then got the rights and even they had the same problem of not being able to get viable slots for NRT-HNL.

As much as I would like to see HA expand westward to Asia, I see an eastward U.S. expansion happening first. Hopefully this will mean JFK, which was so close to being announced a few years ago.

ikramerica · Wed Feb 15, 2006 11:20 am

The new york market could support two daily 767 flights to HNL, one on CO out of EWR and one on HA out of JFK. New York is a giant market, and many people are forced to fly to other cities to connect to hawaii. Makes little sense.

As I showed in another thread with CO, time it right, and HA can do one stop to SYD from NYC as well, with the option to stop in Hawaii on the trip to decompress. It's not very far out of the way, 45 minutes at most on the 'same type', though 747s fly faster in cruise so the duration difference is more like 1:30 total. But to avoid LAX and have the option to stop-over in HNL, it's still a decent route.

N1120A · Wed Feb 15, 2006 11:32 am

Quoting HALFA (Reply 16):
Absolutely! Although the redeye to LAX has already been reinstated. Currently it runs just 3 or 4 days per week but with the addition of 4 more airplanes to the fleet, look for that flight to go daily as well as increasing service on HNL-SEA double daily and a daily SAN-OGG and a few surprises thrown in.

Any plans on returning to the LAX-OGG route? That is a big hole in their network

B6FA4ever · Wed Feb 15, 2006 11:46 am

with the whole JFK talk...is there a possibility if/when HA does start JFK they may codeshare w/ American Eagle for connections throughout new england (an upstate NY) to hop on the HA flight to HNL? or hell...an off the wall idea of HA starting some codeshare w/ us at Jetblue... bigthumbsup

once we get Term 5 up and running HA could use a gate of ours! (I know...i know...won't be reality, but hey, i can always dream can't i?!? *LOL*)

~B6FA4ever

tbear815 · Wed Feb 15, 2006 11:58 am

Any possible stopover in Hawai'i from the US to the South Pacific/Asia would be incredible for the Hawai'ian tourism figures. If pax can make the stop at no additional fare, this would fill HA metal all the way. It's the break in fare that can turn the whole thing sour.

Hawai'i is the natural cure for jet lag, irritability, and the stresses of travel. A stop in the islands can do wonders for the body, mind, and love life. If pax can make a "free" stop, relax, enjoy, and re-new, HA will have some very happy pax for future travel. Many business travelers might take their spouse/s.o. with them rather than fly solo. Offer an enhanced inflight product that is consistant and the island economy can't help but prosper.

If HA wants to open up to Asia, look to KIX, FUK, and similar cities losing uplift. Try the daily JFK route with connex to Asia and the South Pacific. The connex for west coast flights are terrific as well. HNL for a HA connex, if planned and operated well, is a great idea. But, if they're going to do it, at least DO IT WELL!

Mahalo nui loa,

Tbear

PSA727 · Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:03 pm

I'm sure these aircraft will be used on runs to California so that those AC
could be used for opening-up new, longer-distance markets.
To me, Asia and the South Pacific/Australia/New Zealand would make
great opportunities for them to make HNL not only an O&D market, but a
transfer point as well.
If I were to fly from SAN to SYD or MEL, I would rather connnect in HNL and
stretch my legs, than to take a quick flight to LAX or SFO and then be on a
plane for 14/15 hours.
HA could even market these with free stopovers in HNL for people connecting
through there. That would be offering a product that very few others could
provide. With great and frienly service as well!

tbear815 · Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:18 pm

PSA727 and I must have been thinking the same thoughts and writing at the same time. Obviously, great minds work alike. As noted, PSA727 and I share a career in the hotel industry. I was in airlines for awhile, but it's all about hospitality. Hey, all you HA employees out there! Now you know where to fly your new metal. Thanks, PSA727 - I flew a lot of those three holers!

Tbear

PSA727 · Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:58 pm

Thanks Tbear815 for the compliment.

It's a nice change to have something nice said about one's opinion here
at A.net. Have you ever tried to say something critical of DL? It's like
disturbing a hornet's nest! biting

Since I never worked in the airline industry, some of the lingo is not familiar
to me. It took me a few minutes to realize a three holer = 727! banghead

James

ikramerica · Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:14 pm

Quoting Tbear815 (Reply 38):
great minds work alike

https://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/2483296

everyone really got on my case for suggesting CO could do the same thing, and do it for a lower fare than UA, QF, etc. charge.

I think now with longer range midsized jets, HNL actually becomes a viable transfer hub again. It used to be a hub for major west coast cities to asia/pacific traffic, but now it can become hub for minor west coast, south and east coast cities to south asia/pacific. After all, for most cities in the east and south, you have to stop somewhere. Even if it's a little further, I'd like to stop in HNL... Smile

HA_DC9 · Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:18 pm

Good to see some more 767s coming to HA. I hope HA goes for the 767 Enhanced Interior package since these birds will be overhauled and reconfigured.

Coronado990 · Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:20 pm

I'd like to see a HNL-SAN-MIA flight...ahhh paradise to paradise to paradise! sun

planemanofnz · Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:40 pm

Quoting B6FA4ever (Reply 20):
Will HA ever return to GUM (Guam) or AKL?

I am hoping AKL. There is alot of tlk that NZ will be pulling out of HNL shortly or re-routing the flight through RAR/NAN or APW. If this happens I definately think HA should come back to AKL. They would also provide good transfer opportunities to the U.S for us kiwi's.

tbear815 · Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:46 pm

PSA727 - One always hears the complaints, never the compliments. You in the hotel industry know that to be a fact. If HA were to fly international pax from the Mainland to Asia/South Pacific with the current equipment, they would HAVE to stop in HNL for both crew change and refueling. That's a given.

Should they write their tariff "akamai," they could include a free Hawai'i stop and offer reduced inter-island rates. If I were going to Japan and my itinerary included Kyoto, Nara, and the southern part of the Islands, I would fly to KIX. Even better if I had the opportunity to stop for free in Hawai'i for a few days. With a reduced rate to the outer islands, I could spend time in the tranquility I can find on Kauai, Maui, or the big Island.

The State of Hawai'i should look at this as a boon to the economy. The Island constituents in DC would be wise in meeting with IATA and look at tariffs and HA.

I have one thing for Hawai'i to remember: Ua mau ke'ea o ka aina i ka pono.

Just my 2 cents...........

Mahalo - mahalo for your kokua,

Tbear

tbear815 · Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:48 pm

Ikramerica - You've got the point!

LAXintl · Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:58 pm

Quoting Tbear815 (Reply 36):
Any possible stopover in Hawai'i from the US to the South Pacific/Asia would be incredible for the Hawai'ian tourism figures. If pax can make the stop at no additional fare, this would fill HA metal all the way.

HA currently already does rather unsuccessfully offer free stopovers and even occasionally throw in free interisland flights for people willing to stopover on their South Pacific services to SYD and PPT.
Problem is that very few people are interested in such stopovers inlight of being plenty of direct nonstops from the West Coast.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 40):
HNL actually becomes a viable transfer hub again.

As mentioned above, why go out of your way and stop in Hawaii when there are plenty of nonstops from the mainland to Asia and South Pacific.
Hawaii ended being a stopover point with the advent of longer range aircraft such as the 747-400 and 777.
Future 787s will even further fragment the market making direct nonstops even more possible from additional city pairs.

I really don't ever see Hawaii being a viable transfer city ever again as its simply no longer needed geographically just as other airports such as Anchorage, Gander, Shannon whom lost most their intercontinental passenger flights decades ago.

727EMflyer · Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:25 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 30):
They would be going head to head with CO wouldn't they? Is there really a market for HNL-GUM or even the through market?

By goodness yes! I fly between HNL and GUM several times a year, and CO1/2 is ALWAYS full. Guam could really use some additional service, if not for the loads than to give the pax pocketbooks a break! I know, I know we like to see profitable routes here on A.net, but a colleauge of mine was complaining recently how it is cheaper to fly from his home in SAN to SIN than it is to GUM... Good ole Continetnal Monopolynesia!

A second note on the route, my "company" is trying to expand in Guam. Air travel options are going to have to advance to support the additional traffic we will bring. HA to HNL would be a great option, although I'd personally preffer to see UA offer service but that's never going to happen! There is a lot of business that takes place between HNL and GUM such as banking, shipping, and tourism industry business. Since HNL is the pacific's regional metro-center the locally preferred airline should do quite well.

(BTW I happen to be sitting in my hotel room in GUM right now waiting for the next available flight back to HNL!)

In other commentary, the Hawaii tourism gurus have been talking up the U.S. east market for some time now while almost every major market in the west has service to HNL at least. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see additional NYC service along with BOS or Washington.

Bluewave 707 · Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:09 pm

N584HA to N586HA are ex-LTU 763s (-3G5ERs to be exact). Compared to the other 763s in HA's fleet ... these 3 seem old.

One good thing will come out of this as well. HA will have extra flexibility during the NFL season when one 763 is used to fly the Oakland Raiders to their road games. If they play their cards right, they won't have to eliminate a flight while that bird is chartered.

DCAYOW · Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:48 am

It appears the normally seasonal SAN-OGG has already been loaded through the winter months on www.hawaiianair.com. The nonstop SAN-OGG does not end in September as originally planned... Two HA 763s YEAR ROUND.

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