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DL4EVR
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DL Eliminating Piority Security Lines?!

Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:27 am

Today, for the first time in a long time I flew out of LGA. After check-in, I proceeded to security ready to go on the Medallion security line, and to my surprise....it was no longer there! Does anyone know why they closed this line and/or if they're planning on bringing it back? I had to wait on the "regular" line for almost 20 minutes!
We Love To Fly And It Shows.
 
rjpieces
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RE: DL Eliminating Piority Security Lines?!

Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting DL4EVR (Thread starter):
I had to wait on the "regular" line for almost 20 minutes!

Poor baby, whatever did you do to pass the time?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
DL4EVR
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RE: DL Eliminating Piority Security Lines?!

Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:42 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 1):
Poor baby, whatever did you do to pass the time?

Hm...well I stood there...and since it was a school holiday, I listened to a variety of children screaming.
We Love To Fly And It Shows.
 
gocaps16
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RE: DL Eliminating Piority Security Lines?!

Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:01 am

Don't know about LGA. We still have them here, but it's usually for first class and gold and plat. medallion members. When I was silver medallion before reaching gold medallion, I had to wait in the regular line, esp. in Atlanta. But, I wouldn't complain waiting in line for 20 minutes, unless you had like 10 minutes before your flight leaves then I'd start to worry.

Kevin
 
deltairlines
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RE: DL Eliminating Piority Security Lines?!

Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:29 am

Reports are that the line is currently back. NW WorldClub is saying that it was Delta's decision, possibly due to school vacation week up there? All reports of mine are from FlyerTalk.

Personally, I agree with the OP that it should be there. Having perks like Priority check-in and, if my upgrade clears (a lot of the time it does on the routes I travel), priority security, allow me to spend less time at the airport, which is something I kind of enjoy from time to time (gasp, how dare I violate the creed that if I'm on A.net, I have to arrive 2 hours before my flight so I can take photographs to post in my Trip Report!). With these perks, I can arrive at BOS for a 7:15 p.m. flight on a weeknight at about 6:30 p.m. - and still have time to grab a bite to eat and make Zone 1/Medallion boarding. Take away these perks, and it does create an inconvinience to those who travel a good bit. Personally, give me the priority line when I have access to it and let me zip through instead of waiting for once-a-year families to figure out how to clear a checkpoint (it does get aggrevating, I've had to do it in MCO back before Priority Checkpoints after 9/11 - I was in F - the line took 45 minutes, partially because the families all had to take their time in going through - that gets quite annoying fast!)

Jeff
 
DL4EVR
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RE: DL Eliminating Piority Security Lines?!

Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:39 am

Quoting GOCAPS16 (Reply 3):
We still have them here, but it's usually for first class and gold and plat. medallion members. When I was silver medallion before reaching gold medallion, I had to wait in the regular line, esp. in Atlanta. But, I

Well, my father is a Gold Medallion anyway, but when we were all Silver, we never had a problem going through. They let all Medallions, including Silver go through the priority line.

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 4):
Personally, I agree with the OP that it should be there. Having perks like Priority check-in and, if my upgrade clears (a lot of the time it does on the routes I travel), priority security, allow me to spend less time at the airport

Thank you...someone understands where I'm coming from!
We Love To Fly And It Shows.
 
gocaps16
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RE: DL Eliminating Piority Security Lines?!

Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:51 am

Quoting DL4EVR (Reply 5):
Thank you...someone understands where I'm coming from!

I also agree very well with DeltAirlines with this great perks for us. But, sometimes, it's not necessary. 80% of the time I fly to California, so I rack up 10,000 per trip, and I've rarely got to go thru the Medallion lines at SAN, LAX, and/or SFO becuase when I'm there, the airport itself is DEAD. So, I end up going thru the lines and takes me 2 minutes to go thru. I got lucky in Atlanta once sunday evening and the regular line was empty and I was amazed. But, it does help esp. during summer breaks and big holidays.

Kevin
 
sstsomeday
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RE: DL Eliminating Piority Security Lines?!

Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:58 am

Quoting DL4EVR (Thread starter):
I had to wait on the "regular" line for almost 20 minutes!

While I support, in theory, an express line for passengers that have paid a lot of money, the system breaks down if it means that the riff-raff line slows down to an unacceptable wait time.

I was in a lowly "economy" line at LAX about a year ago, (either Delta, American or United) which began as a reasonably short line, but it kept getting longer and going slower as "preferred" passengers continued to stream past us. What was happening was clear, it was exceedingly rude, and tempers were beginning to flair. As I stood there moving imperceptibly, I started counting the "preferred" passengers passing us by, and it was clear that more of them were getting through security than the economy passengers. So the system (at least as I experienced it that day) was flawed since there are perhaps 4 times as many economy passengers as preferred...

The "preferred" line only works if there is enough personnel and equipment to reasonably deal with everyone waiting to pass through security. It is NOT a solution for not enough personnel or equipment.
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Tango-Bravo
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RE: DL Eliminating Piority Security Lines?!

Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:24 am

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 7):
The "preferred" line only works if there is enough personnel and equipment to reasonably deal with everyone waiting to pass through security. It is NOT a solution for not enough personnel or equipment.

When TSA allowed the airlines to offer "preferred" lines, it was with the condition attached that it would not result in underutlization of any security checkpoint lanes and personnel; ie no loooooooooong lines for the lowly castes while at the same time the elite caste line(s) are very short to non-existent. Can only say I've seen non-implementation of this policy on more than one occasion.
 
CMK10
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RE: DL Eliminating Piority Security Lines?!

Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:37 am

I can't speak for the Delta terminal, but when I used to fly American out of LaGuardia in 2004 they never had any priority lines. I had on the early Miami flight on a Monday and I had to join a line of over 150 people, most holding Group 1 or First Class boarding cards. When I asked where the priority line was, the woman said "There is none. THAT is your line!"
"Traveling light is the only way to fly" - Eric Clapton
 
bayareapilot
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RE: DL Eliminating Piority Security Lines?!

Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:39 am

What they really need are "I know what I'm doing" and "I have no f-ing clue" lines.
 
DL4EVR
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RE: DL Eliminating Piority Security Lines?!

Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:43 am

Quoting Cmk10 (Reply 9):
I can't speak for the Delta terminal, but when I used to fly American out of LaGuardia in 2004 they never had any priority lines. I had on the early Miami flight on a Monday and I had to join a line of over 150 people, most holding Group 1 or First Class boarding cards. When I asked where the priority line was, the woman said "There is none. THAT is your line!"

Was there a "preferred" line there at one point?
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ckfred
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RE: DL Eliminating Piority Security Lines?!

Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:24 pm

For AA at ORD, there is the main security checkpoint outside the H-K entry, a second at the G entry, a third outside of L, then thereis the elite/business/first-class line between the H-K and L entries.

This avoids the headache that SSTsomeday described at LAX.
 
sstsomeday
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RE: DL Eliminating Piority Security Lines?!

Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:04 pm

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 12):
For AA at ORD, there is the main security checkpoint outside the H-K entry, a second at the G entry, a third outside of L, then thereis the elite/business/first-class line between the H-K and L entries.

This avoids the headache that SSTsomeday described at LAX.

Unfortunately - it wouldn't solve the problem of under-staffing the main security checkpoints, because I suspect the main lines are sometimes understaffed in order to staff the "preferred" lines.

However, visually separating the lines in this way WOULD at least keep economy passengers in the dark as to why their line is taking so long.
 grumpy 
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fanoftristars
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RE: DL Eliminating Piority Security Lines?!

Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:38 pm

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 7):
The "preferred" line only works if there is enough personnel and equipment to reasonably deal with everyone waiting to pass through security. It is NOT a solution for not enough personnel or equipment.

I disagree. The preferred lines work because the most frequent of flyers have the ability to pass through security at a much quicker rate. It has nothing to do with how many more knuckleheads the TSA needs to hire to help the people that fly once a year. The next time you're standing in the slow economy line, take a look at what passengers in the preferred lines are doing... Usually you'll see us removing watches, emptying pockets, removing shoes, etc PRIOR to getting to the metal detector. There is little wasted time in the line.

I would wager the main reason your line was so slow was because the whole security process was so completely overwhelming for most travelers and many in your line found themselves at the metal detector without the mental capacity to proceed without deep coaching from the also befuddled TSA staff.

In other words, I thank the good lord that DL has a preferred line at SLC when I show up on Monday morning, and I'd rather the government not tack on more taxes to my ticket to buy additional equipment and steal more employees from McDonalds/Burger King to come work for the TSA to speed the slow people along.
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deltagator
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RE: DL Eliminating Piority Security Lines?!

Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:45 pm

Quoting BayAreaPilot (Reply 10):
What they really need are "I know what I'm doing" and "I have no f-ing clue" lines.

Absof*&#inglutely! Reminds me of the time I got stuck behind some slack jawed yokels in the self checkout lane in Wal-Mart. When it was my turn I scanned all my items on the first try, bagged them, paid, and then turned to the line behind and said, "That's how you use the self-checkout!"

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 13):
Unfortunately - it wouldn't solve the problem of under-staffing the main security checkpoints, because I suspect the main lines are sometimes understaffed in order to staff the "preferred" lines.

In AtL the two lines come together at the same point. I only have to wait in line to get my ticket checked for maybe 2-3 people in front of me versus the longer lines for regular folks (I'm highly irregular!) Once the two groups get their IDs and tickets checked we all get dumped into the same free for all to find the shortest line.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
DL4EVR
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RE: DL Eliminating Piority Security Lines?!

Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:40 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 15):
In AtL the two lines come together at the same point. I only have to wait in line to get my ticket checked for maybe 2-3 people in front of me versus the longer lines for regular folks (I'm highly irregular!) Once the two groups get their IDs and tickets checked we all get dumped into the same free for all to find the shortest line.

Yeah...that's sort of how it worked at LGA.
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sstsomeday
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RE: DL Eliminating Piority Security Lines?!

Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:57 am

Quoting Fanoftristars (Reply 14):
I would wager the main reason your line was so slow was because the whole security process was so completely overwhelming for most travelers and many in your line found themselves at the metal detector without the mental capacity to proceed without deep coaching from the also befuddled TSA staff.



Quoting Fanoftristars (Reply 14):
I'd rather the government not tack on more taxes to my ticket to buy additional equipment and steal more employees from McDonalds/Burger King to come work for the TSA to speed the slow people along.

I don't agree that we can blame occasional travellers for not being as experienced or seasoned.

I don't find the TSA people inept, on the whole, although I do find the inconsistencies of standards maddening; e.g: "take your shoes off" vs "don't take your shoes off." or "the carry-on bag was OK yesterday but it's not OK today," or "my belt didn't sound the alarm yesterday, so I wore it and it DID sound the alarm today..."

But what I'm talking about mostly is how, for example, a few weeks ago I was in the security line for T2 at LAX. There was one xray machine for preferred, and two for Coach. As one might expect, based on the ratio of Coach passengers vs "preferred," our line continued to get longer and go slower. Mind you, the "preferred" line was about a 10 minute wait, I estimated. It was a big crowd of inconvenienced, disgruntled people.

I would be fine with a scenario that people waited in general about 10 minutes at the most, while "preferred" customers were whisked through. Anything longer than that is poor service. Under-staffing the checkpoint and then having a preferred line is unacceptable, but unfortunately it's what I have come to expect. When I have to travel, I brace my self for what abusive curve balls or "non-ticket revenue" surprises the airline is going to throw at me. And my expectations SHOULDN'T be so low. Ideally, the security lines should be so efficient that we don't NEED a preferred line (Perfect world, I know). We've become so pessimistic/resigned about lack of service in the Industry that I sound like a crybaby suggesting it should be otherwise.

I wonder if things will eventually sort out (market share between the Low-Fare carriers and the majors, consolidation or failure of some of the majors, etc. etc.) so that we might start to enjoy some semblance of service again? Or will flying with the masses always be such an masochistic experience?

Wow - did I wake up the wrong side of bed or WHAT?

Cheers
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avi8tir
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RE: DL Eliminating Piority Security Lines?!

Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:46 am

Quoting BayAreaPilot (Reply 10):
What they really need are "I know what I'm doing" and "I have no f-ing clue" lines.

HAHA! thats so true!!

"Sir, I think its your belt buckle thats the size of a dinner plate thats making the detector go off."

I cant believe some of the people I get stuck behind!
*Long live the Widget*
 
DL4EVR
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RE: DL Eliminating Piority Security Lines?!

Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:46 am

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 17):
I don't find the TSA people inept, on the whole, although I do find the inconsistencies of standards maddening; e.g: "take your shoes off" vs "don't take your shoes off." or "the carry-on bag was OK yesterday but it's not OK today," or "my belt didn't sound the alarm yesterday, so I wore it and it DID sound the alarm today..."

Yeah I don't understand that. The TSA website says you do NOT have to take off certain types of shoes (sneakers). However, when I asked the TSA lady at the gate, she said "Who told you that information? It's wrong!" So, whatever, I complied and took my sneakers off, went through the metal detector and DIDN'T ring. However, I was taken for "extra screening"...possibly because of my initial desire not to take my shoes off....
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fanoftristars
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RE: DL Eliminating Piority Security Lines?!

Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:22 pm

Has anyone ever listened to the TSA employees when they're working? You'l hear them discussing how their breaks aren't long enough, or how Bonnie got 3 minutes more on her break, or how they don't want to work this line or that line. Why just the other day in Chicago they were talking about how stupid certain passengers were right in front of all the passengers passing through. To my knowledge, not even a McDonald's worker could talk bad about the customers in front of other customers. But that's ok at the TSA!

My favorite part is the TSA is now training their employees to watch for clues from passengers to decide if they're terrorists or not. There was a great article in USA Today about it a few weeks ago. I nearly fell out of 2C laughing at what they're telling their employees to watch for. I feel bad for any non-caucasians, or anyone that may be confused as these are signs of possible terrorists, according to the idiocy of the TSA.

Another thought, eight friends and I came home from MZT-PHX-SLC. Upon unpacking, we all noticed that every one of our bags was hand searched by the TSA, with their little card explaining they had searched it. That seems a bit overkill to me that they're hand searching EVERY bag on an international flight. And we share the burden of this overkill with the airlines with increased ticket prices.

I stand behind my evaluation of the TSA. I think it's a total smoke and mirrors operation to make John Q. Public FEEL safer about flying. The only real safety improvements that have been made is in the technology sector. And these improvements are coming to the government by way of private industry. Don't expect the TSA to come up with technology to improve safety. They just want to spend more money on more people. Oh, and don't forget their beautiful new headquarters in Arlington, VA, two twelve story buildings and immense budget overruns on their new digs... Disgusting.
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
DL4EVR
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RE: DL Eliminating Piority Security Lines?!

Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:37 pm

Security itself is really no more secure than it was pre-9/11. It just a lot more annoying. The "TSA Professionals" (yeah, right) definitely contribute to it.
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ctbarnes
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RE: DL Eliminating Piority Security Lines?!

Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:51 pm

Quoting Fanoftristars (Reply 20):
I stand behind my evaluation of the TSA. I think it's a total smoke and mirrors operation to make John Q. Public FEEL safer about flying. The only real safety improvements that have been made is in the technology sector. And these improvements are coming to the government by way of private industry. Don't expect the TSA to come up with technology to improve safety. They just want to spend more money on more people. Oh, and don't forget their beautiful new headquarters in Arlington, VA, two twelve story buildings and immense budget overruns on their new digs... Disgusting.

It's a political solution that does absolutely nothing to make our skies safer. I'm not sure I'd agree with the technology angle though. Those nifty In-Vision scanners can't tell the difference between a piece of semtex and a bar of chocolate-unless they have improved the technology to where the throughput is faster with fewer false positives.

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
DL4EVR
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RE: DL Eliminating Piority Security Lines?!

Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:35 pm

I've said it before....anything can be used as a weapon in flight. But now that the cockpits are far more secure, the worst that could happen would be injuries in the cabin. While explosives definitely need to be searched for, tiny knives really shouldn't be an issue.
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thegooddoctor
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RE: DL Eliminating Piority Security Lines?!

Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:36 am

Quoting DL4EVR (Thread starter):
Today, for the first time in a long time I flew out of LGA. After check-in, I proceeded to security ready to go on the Medallion security line, and to my surprise....it was no longer there! Does anyone know why they closed this line and/or if they're planning on bringing it back? I had to wait on the "regular" line for almost 20 minutes!

Did they have a first class line? I don't know about Delta elite, but NWA elite lets their members (gold and higher) use the FC line.

As for 20 minutes, depending on the time of day, that might be the wait for the elite/FC line... More than a few times at Phoenix, I have bypassed a 30-60 minute wait using the elite line.

For those who poo-poo the elite benifits thing - if you fly several times a month, it really does make the whole process a little less of a drag if you don't have to spend 15 minutes in line at the ticket counter, another 20 at the security check, and get to board before the other 180 people who usually have a) too much luggage and b) luggage that will not fit in the overhead bin no matter how hard they push. My favorite is watching the late boarders from rows 30 and higher on a 757-300 fighting their way forward with their roll-aboards to check them because they boarded late due to the ever-necessary starbucks stop.
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PanAm747
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RE: DL Eliminating Piority Security Lines?!

Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:49 am

Actually, I think they need to further separate the lines...into three sections.

One line for "Frequent Flyers" - those that fly every day, know how to deal with TSA, in/out, done.

One line for people travelling alone or maybe in couples - I'm not a medallion member, but I do have my things removed and ready to go. I don't mind waiting a bit longer (but not for 30 minutes behind one large group totally unaware of how ANYTHING works!!).

Finally, one line for families and people needing extra time. I say this because I am travelling with my elderly father this summer. Even if he is prepared ahead of time, he cannot move quickly or understand some instructions clearly the first time. I do NOT want to delay people behind me, but if we go slow with him, we will get through just fine.

It could even start out as just two lines, then have a TSA person identify who needs extra time and who can proceed quickly.

If only...
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deltagator
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RE: DL Eliminating Piority Security Lines?!

Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:05 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 25):
then have a TSA person identify who needs extra time and who can proceed quickly.

And thus the flaw in your plan is exposed.  biggrin  TSA folks don't think for themselves.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
DL4EVR
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RE: DL Eliminating Piority Security Lines?!

Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:28 am

Quoting Thegooddoctor (Reply 24):
Did they have a first class line? I don't know about Delta elite, but NWA elite lets their members (gold and higher) use the FC line.

It was the same line. It was open to all DL and NW elite members, as well as F customers. Now it isn't opened to anyone Sad
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