bolu340
Topic Author
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:36 pm

IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:38 am

Looks like IB continues scaling back services from BCN and concentrating in MAD.
MUC is out of the program in summer leaving only FRA as destination from BCN to Germany.
Rumours are they will only leave LHR, ORY and FRA as european destinations out of BCN.

Really amazing!!
 
anxebla
Posts: 1696
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RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:48 am

It may be amazing, but that news is a bit old. It's clear: IB is only interested in BCN to make flights in the BCN-MAD-BCN leg and a few domestic such as BCN-ALC, BCN-AGP, BCN-SCQ, BCN-SVQ...
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Emirates Skies
Posts: 162
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RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:11 pm

That means that BCN-Italy and BCN-Athens will also get the axe. That's very bad, especially since OA does not currently fly to BCN.
Take nothing but photos, leave nothing but footprints
 
Emirates Skies
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2001 7:00 pm

RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:12 pm

Anyone knows if Spanair may be interested in taking over some of the routes such as BCN-Italy? Thanks.
Take nothing but photos, leave nothing but footprints
 
AC787
Posts: 330
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RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:30 pm

What intercontinental flights if any does IB offer from Barcelona? I just came back from my first visit to barcelona, amazing city, i just wish there was a nonstop yow-bcn flight (maybe in 2090 or somewhere around then)  Smile, would have saved me of connecting through PHL  Sad
 
rojo
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RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:30 pm

Quoting Emirates Skies (Reply 3):
Anyone knows if Spanair may be interested in taking over some of the routes such as BCN-Italy? Thanks.

Vueling is the winner here. They keep expanding from BCN (Just announced Venice VCE) and getting most of the market... I guess IB is really losing passengers in BCN to the LCC's...
 
LipeGIG
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RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:31 pm

BCN and GIG are quite similar... Big markets, but both are used only as feeder for main hubs.

Does anyone has the list of international services to/from BCN ?

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
AlitaliaMD11
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RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:39 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 6):
Does anyone has the list of international services to/from BCN ?

Heres what I have:

US Airways to Philedelphia (767-200)
Continental Airlines to Newark (757-200)
Delta Airlines to JFK (767-300)
Egypt Air to Cairo (A321, A330-200, 777-200)
El Al to Tel Aviv (737-800)
Aerolineas Argentinas to Buenos Aires (A340-200)
Air Plus Comet to Shanghai (747-200)
Air Plus Comet to Beijing (747-200)
Air Europa to Shanghai (767-300, A340-200)
Air Europa to Beijing (767-300, 747-200)
Air Madrid to Buenos Aires (A330-200)
Air Madrid to Lima (A330-200)
Air Madrid to Bogota (A330-200)
Air Madrid to Cartagena de Indias (A330-200)
No Vueling No Party
 
anxebla
Posts: 1696
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RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:56 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 6):
BCN and GIG are quite similar... Big markets, but both are used only as feeder for main hubs.

You are absolutely right!!!

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 7):
US Airways to Philedelphia (767-200)
Continental Airlines to Newark (757-200)
Delta Airlines to JFK (767-300)
Egypt Air to Cairo (A321, A330-200, 777-200)
El Al to Tel Aviv (737-800)
Aerolineas Argentinas to Buenos Aires (A340-200)
Air Plus Comet to Shanghai (747-200)
Air Plus Comet to Beijing (747-200)
Air Europa to Shanghai (767-300, A340-200)
Air Europa to Beijing (767-300, 747-200)
Air Madrid to Buenos Aires (A330-200)
Air Madrid to Lima (A330-200)
Air Madrid to Bogota (A330-200)
Air Madrid to Cartagena de Indias (A330-200)

 Yeah sure Gordon, you must to update this list ...I'm afraid. In addition to many of this flights are seasonal (ej, DL) others still there is not (CO) and many of them are not daily.

BCN is not a world-class airport and it will never be. BCN is just more or less important within Europe ...but not more.
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
lamedianaranja
Posts: 1195
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RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:35 pm

Ib flies 3 times a day BCN-AMS vv too. But now we see Vueling coming also.
KL loads to BCN are fabulous!
I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
 
Beaucaire
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RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:17 pm

Barcelona might not be an important airport for somebody from Madrid,but the Catalan-Castillian frictions play certainly a role in this reduction of IB presence.
There will be other airlines serving Barcelona in the future and IB might just be implementing the wrong strategy.
Like LH did in DUS and HAM -they attached a special fleet of aircraft to offer reduced fares to major european cities-IB could have started to set up their long awaited LowCost daughter in BCN and compete Vueling.
And if American carriers find BCN attractive enough to fly westwards,so could have done IB.
Air Madrid will also expand in BCN- so it's far from being a provincial airport.
IB's sole focus on MAD is a dangerous strategy,in that should there be major problems with Barajas (envirenment,incidents,social actions,terror attacks ) there are no alternative places ready to substitute the mega-hub MAD.
LH has a three hub policy (FRA,MUC,ZUR ) for good reasons.Spain is not as centralistic as France with sole hub Paris -but even there you have two major airports.
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
spantax
Posts: 316
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RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:52 pm

After the arrival of LCCs and the next big competition that the AVE (high speed trains) represents I think Iberia is confused, cutting flights not only to/from Barcelona but everywhere in Spain also. This is good for competition but I don't know, I always have the sensation that IB is a bad managed company (even if their flight attendants are not so brutal as is commonly referred here  Smile). But, on the other hand, and as it has been mentioned on theses forums quite often, it is one of the few airlines making profits on a regular basis. I can't see clear right now the situation of the Spanish market for the next future, but Vueling looks on the good track and, no doubt, Ryanair still has a lot of potential small airports to use. Even the "exotic" Air Madrid is planning intra-Spanish flights. Regards.
A300, 310, 319, 320, 321, 330, 340, 380, AN-2, AN-26, ATR42, AVR85, 100, B717, 727, 737, 747, 757, 777, Q400, B1900D, C130, C212,
CH47, CRJ200, 700, 900, DC-3, DC-9, DHC4, ERJ 145, 190, F50, 70, 100, HS146, IL114, MD83, 87, 88.
 
bolu340
Topic Author
Posts: 41
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RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:01 pm

I totally agree with you Beaucaire!
Years ago Airline Business Magazine published an article about IB quoting that "Barcelona is the weak point of a weak airline".......and now you see the results...

IB will keep on downsizing BCN, they keep on loosing market share not only to Low Cost Carriers but to other Established Airlines as well.

Could not be any other way, they never showed interest about BCN and the market is reacting at the first opportunity.
 
bolu340
Topic Author
Posts: 41
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RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:03 pm

IB reduced its operating profit 2005 by 35%.......doubled net profit 2005 just because they sold Amadeus.
 
aswissinmad
Posts: 125
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RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:08 pm

Any chance that YW will replace IB services that might disappear? At least they would keep a market presence this way, and Catalans would be able to enjoy more of YW's great service (as opposed to IB's disastrous European service concept where even a full fare y-cl. pax has to pay for a glass of water).
 
Icaro
Posts: 225
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RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:19 pm

Quoting Aswissinmad (Reply 14):
even a full fare y-cl. pax has to pay for a glass of water

Nobody has to pay for a glass of water in IB. You pay for a bottle of water. You can ask for a glass of water anytime.
 
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cedars747
Posts: 2673
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RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:30 pm

Quoting Icaro (Reply 15):
You pay for a bottle of water. You can ask for a glass of water anytime.

Or you can allways take your "cantimplora" with you!
Saludos
Alex!!!
Tengo una pasion por la aviacion /لدي شغف للطيران / I have a passion for aviation /Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart/ J'ai une passion pour l'aviation.
 
kappel
Posts: 1836
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:48 pm

RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:55 pm

Quoting Rojo (Reply 5):
Vueling is the winner here. They keep expanding from BCN (Just announced Venice VCE) and getting most of the market... I guess IB is really losing passengers in BCN to the LCC's...

My thoughts exactly. Vueling is growing tremendously and offering better service than IB. No wonder IB's loosing pax to them.
Will Vueling also start domestic flights? (BCN-ALC)

Also Air Berlin is a major competitor to IB domestic now with their hub at Palma de Mallorca. From there they fly very cheap to a number of domestic destinations, like BCN and ALC. Again, with better service than IB.
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RJ100
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RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:03 pm

Does this also include Air Nostrum's services to be axed or will they keep their presence in BCN?

Regards,
RJ100
none
 
RAFVC10
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RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:16 pm

Quoting Cedars747 (Reply 16):
Or you can allways take your "cantimplora" with you!

Or your "bocata de tortilla de patatas"
El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
 
RAFVC10
Posts: 1344
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:48 pm

RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:33 pm

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 7):
Air Plus Comet to Beijing (747-200)

No. A7 not flies to BJS. Only, as you said, to PVG with 313.

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 7):
Air Madrid to Buenos Aires (A330-200)
Air Madrid to Lima (A330-200)
Air Madrid to Bogota (A330-200)
Air Madrid to Cartagena de Indias (A330-200)

Air Madrid flies from BCN to BUE, SCL, BOG, CTG, UIO and GYE. Most of these flights are with an stop in TFN.

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 18):
Does this also include Air Nostrum's services to be axed or will they keep their presence in BCN?

Air Nostrum will take most of the routes that Iberia will leave as ZRH, GVA, HAJ, STR, HAM,... MUC is one of its objectives.

Quoting Emirates Skies (Reply 3):
Anyone knows if Spanair may be interested in taking over some of the routes such as BCN-Italy?

Spanair is actually flying from BCN to AOI twice weekly in partnership with Evolavia.

Quoting Emirates Skies (Reply 2):
That means that BCN-Italy and BCN-Athens will also get the axe. That's very bad, especially since OA does not currently fly to BCN.

No, is bad but not worst. IB will continue with its flights to main cities in Italy (FCO, MIL, VCE) leaving NAP, CAG, PMO, CTA, PSA, BLQ, VRN,... to YW.

Athens is a most profitable route with load factors of about 75% per flight.

Quoting Kappel (Reply 17):
Will Vueling also start domestic flights? (BCN-ALC)

Don't think so. JK has begun this route few days ago. Three companies for this route?? No.

Regards,

RAFVC10
El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
 
bullpitt
Posts: 757
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RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:37 pm

IB is loosing pap's to whom? What makes you think that IB has lost paps?. IB has transported 3,7% more in 2005. IB is at the moment in a process of adjusting is offer to get the maximum benefit from their fleet.

Spantax

What makes you think IB is badly managed. I think management has done a failry good job so far, specially considering they have had profits for the last 8 or 9 yrs, when others have had nothing but losses.

IB as a company has nothing against BCN so this reduction has nothing to do with MAD-BCN rivalry it is purely economics.
These are my principles but if you don't like them I have others
 
BCNGRO
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RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:39 pm

I'm sorry, you IB guys won't succeed isolating Catalonia from the rest of the world. BCN has a huge potential and many will fill the gap you leave (i.e. DL,CO,US to the USA by now).

And, by the way, we will see how this year's results turn out now you can't sell anymore Amadeus...

[Edited 2006-02-28 15:45:32]
At the bus station, buses stop. At the train station, trains stop. At my desk, I have a work station.
 
dutch122
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 6:53 pm

RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:49 pm

And do not forget the loads of the AMS-BCN flights of IB are also good to fabolous, every single day.

dutch122
 
IBERIA747
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:43 am

RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:01 am

Quoting Anxebla (Reply 1):
IB is only interested in BCN to make flights in the BCN-MAD-BCN leg and a few domestic such as BCN-ALC, BCN-AGP, BCN-SCQ, BCN-SVQ...

I don't think that's true. I think that the truth is that IB is cutting flights to/ from BCN because they have no choice but to do so. Otherwise why have they developed such a big route network to/from there through the years?.

They're cancelling flights because the LCC's competition is VERY strong and aggressive at BCN, as simple as that.

Quoting Bolu340 (Reply 12):
IB will keep on downsizing BCN, they keep on loosing market share not only to Low Cost Carriers but to other Established Airlines as well.

I am not so sure if the long established carriers have much to do with this, since they have always been there and IB has grown despite their pressence in BCN. However, the loss of customers has become noticeable upon the arrival of LCC's to "El Prat", which btw is becoming a BIG "LCC paradise".

Quoting Anxebla (Reply 8):
BCN is not a world-class airport and it will never be.

Only time will tell, and I guess in the end it could prove you wrong. Let's think about your hypothesis in 10 more years now that many airlines are paying more attention to this airport. Besides, the new terminal that's being built at BCN will be as big as MAD's T4 (not including the satellite, but that's BIG enough).

Quoting Anxebla (Reply 8):
BCN is just more or less important within Europe ...but not more

I think that with 27,131,448 passengers in 2005 it's much more important that just "more or less". It's among the top 10 European airports.
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
 
MalpensaSFO
Posts: 1110
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RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:01 am

Quoting Bolu340 (Thread starter):
Rumours are they will only leave LHR, ORY and FRA as european destinations out of BCN

I have doubts that Amsterdam, Munich, Milano, Roma, and Venezia will be cut from Barcelona.
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
IBERIA747
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:43 am

RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:07 am

Quoting BCNGRO (Reply 22):
I'm sorry, you IB guys won't succeed isolating Catalonia from the rest of the world.

What a ridiculous statement.

Nobody is isolating anyone here since Catalonia is as part of Spain as Extremadura or Madrid...now if you don't like the Spanish flag waving on top of public buildings in Barcelona then that's your problem, not IB's nor ours.

[Edited 2006-02-28 16:36:32]
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
 
bullpitt
Posts: 757
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 7:09 am

RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:12 am

This year's result without the sales of Amadeus has been around 116 million euros.

As I said before IB has no intention of isolating Catalonia from the rest of the world. IB will work from BCN if it can make a profit if not they will take their aircraft else where, is as simple as that.

IB has a solid project and hopefully will be around for many years. (or at least until I retire.  biggrin  )
These are my principles but if you don't like them I have others
 
IBERIA747
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:43 am

RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:27 am

Quoting Bullpitt (Reply 27):
IB will work from BCN if it can make a profit if not they will take their aircraft else where, is as simple as that.

Exactly what I think. Btw...¿qué pasa con las cervezas? Big grin

Quoting Bullpitt (Reply 27):
IB has a solid project and hopefully will be around for many years

I really hope so, although I don't work for them and have my share of criticism towards F. Conte, A. Mullor and their colleagues.  duck   Big grin  stirthepot 
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
 
BCNGRO
Posts: 576
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 3:47 am

RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:41 am

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 26):
Catalonia is as part of Spain as Extremadura or Madrid...now if you don't like the Spanish flag waving on top of public buildings in Barcelona then that's your problem, not IB's nor ours.

I'm afraid your nationalistic comments are not only disrepectful but completely out of topic. I will be pleased to talk about this issue in the non-aviation forum. This is a topic to talk about IB's BCN withdrawals: grounds, purposes, and so on.

[Edited 2006-02-28 16:43:34]
At the bus station, buses stop. At the train station, trains stop. At my desk, I have a work station.
 
IBERIA747
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:43 am

RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:47 am

Quoting BCNGRO (Reply 29):
your nationalistic comments are not only disrepectful

I just "returned the ball" to the one who sent it.

Quoting BCNGRO (Reply 29):
out of topic

Same case.

"This is a topic to talk about IB's BCN withdrawals: grounds, purposes, and so on."

Indeed. So I ask the same from you.

[Edited 2006-02-28 16:50:18]
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
 
BCNGRO
Posts: 576
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 3:47 am

RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:05 am

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 30):

Same case.

"This is a topic to talk about IB's BCN withdrawals: grounds, purposes, and so on."

Indeed. So I ask the same from you.

  I was actually talking about that. Maybe I should have expressed my point in other words. My point was: being BCN one of the most profitable airports for IB (as many .anetters have stated) there is no other possible purpose for them to withdraw so many routes than isolating BCN thus forcing the pax to transfer at MAD.

I think your comments were a completely different thing.

[Edited 2006-02-28 17:08:15]
At the bus station, buses stop. At the train station, trains stop. At my desk, I have a work station.
 
777jaah
Posts: 852
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:07 am

Quoting Anxebla (Reply 8):
Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 7):
US Airways to Philedelphia (767-200)
Continental Airlines to Newark (757-200)
Delta Airlines to JFK (767-300)
Egypt Air to Cairo (A321, A330-200, 777-200)
El Al to Tel Aviv (737-800)
Aerolineas Argentinas to Buenos Aires (A340-200)
Air Plus Comet to Shanghai (747-200)
Air Plus Comet to Beijing (747-200)
Air Europa to Shanghai (767-300, A340-200)
Air Europa to Beijing (767-300, 747-200)
Air Madrid to Buenos Aires (A330-200)
Air Madrid to Lima (A330-200)
Air Madrid to Bogota (A330-200)
Air Madrid to Cartagena de Indias (A330-200)

AV BCN-BOG beggining this summer too.

Good luck.
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
MalpensaSFO
Posts: 1110
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:17 am

RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:12 am

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 26):
Nobody is isolating anyone here since Catalonia is as part of Spain as Extremadura or Madrid...now if you don't like the Spanish flag waving on top of public buildings in Barcelona then that's your problem, not IB's nor ours.

That comment was a bit harsh... There are other countries where they have the same feeling. In Italy we have Padania (the unification of Lombardia, Veneto, and Piemonte), as a movement to seperate from Italy. In addition we in the region of Veneto have the right to fly the flag of our region, even without the presence of the Italian flag. It is our right and we shall do so. There was a reason that Volare had the Lion of St. Mark on its tail! If one was to read their history they would realize that Veneto was under the influence of Catalonia, thus strong ties to nationalistic movements still are inbedded in both cultures..  wink 

In defense of those in Barcelona, they have the right to fly their flag, and to fly it more than proud. Just because they are now part of Spain, they do not need to forget an epic heritage!

Back to the topic.. Iberia is not going to abandon the wealthiest gateway in Spain...
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5325
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RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:37 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 10):
LH has a three hub policy (FRA,MUC,ZUR ) for good reasons

The difference is that LH had to open a second hub in MUC because of FRA congestion.
AF also is now building its network around three hubs : CDG, AMS, and LYS as a regional/European efficient Hub.

But IB can not be compared to LH or AF in terms of size and traffic...
IB is just re-organizing its activities around 1 main HUB, MAD, to concentrate its forces, the same way AF did, to make this HUB as powerful as possible, and to avoid a situation "a la Alitalia", with two unjustified small/medium instead of only one efficient.

MAD has just expended, with a brand new terminal, geographically well positionned in the country : with a high frequencies shuttle system to the other major Spanish/European cities, this strategy makes sense.

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 7):
Air Madrid to Buenos Aires (A330-200)
Air Madrid to Lima (A330-200)
Air Madrid to Bogota (A330-200)
Air Madrid to Cartagena de Indias (A330-200)

It seems that "Air Madrid" should be renamed "Air Barcelona" !!!

Quoting Bolu340 (Thread starter):
Rumours are they will only leave LHR, ORY and FRA as european destinations out of BCN.

I doubt they will drop BCN-ORY ...
AF is operatiing a profitable quasi shuttle on CDG-BCN with 9 x Daily flights ...and IB has a lucrative monopoly on the BCN-ORY route
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5063
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:50 am

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 7):

Thanks for the information.

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 34):
It seems that "Air Madrid" should be renamed "Air Barcelona" !!!

Very true, and they will start BCN-FOR-SCL very soon, one more flight from Barcelona.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
BCNGRO
Posts: 576
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RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:50 am

MalpensaSFO, I agree on everything you said. Also notice the difference between AZ and IB policies on MXP and BCN respectively...
At the bus station, buses stop. At the train station, trains stop. At my desk, I have a work station.
 
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cedars747
Posts: 2673
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:04 am

RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:00 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 34):

It seems that "Air Madrid" should be renamed "Air Barcelona" !!!

Nice one,every thing is possible !!!and also , in Argentina there is some rumours about Air Buenos Aires.
Saludos desde Noruega
Alex!!!
Tengo una pasion por la aviacion /لدي شغف للطيران / I have a passion for aviation /Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart/ J'ai une passion pour l'aviation.
 
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cedars747
Posts: 2673
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:04 am

RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:10 am

Quoting Anxebla (Reply 1):
It may be amazing, but that news is a bit old. It's clear: IB is only interested in BCN to make flights in the BCN-MAD-BCN leg and a few domestic such as BCN-ALC, BCN-AGP, BCN-SCQ, BCN-SVQ

I totally agree,for me Iberia is MAD
Saludos
Alex!!!
Tengo una pasion por la aviacion /لدي شغف للطيران / I have a passion for aviation /Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart/ J'ai une passion pour l'aviation.
 
skyteam2000
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 6:45 am

RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:23 am

Let IB to try this new strategie.
BCN has its potential and of course others airline will arrive and Air Mediterraneo/Mediterranea (new llc from Iberia group) will take it´s place.

AF/BA/LH/KL/AZ and others are happy. IB only looks to south america and for others points theirs HUB are the really gate ways for BCN passengers. AV will fly BOG/BCN AM are planning to do it MEX/BCN. others will arrive soon with direct fly then IB maybe will change strategie.

2004

1 london lhr 67.344.054
2 paris cdg 51.260.363
3 frankfurt 51.098.271
4 amsterdam 42.541.180
5 madrid 38.704.731
6 london lgw 31.461.454
7 rome fco 28.118.899
8 munich 26.814.505
9 barcelona 24.550.949
10 paris ory 24.053.215

BCN is the 9 euro airport do you really think that BCN has no potential?
 
anxebla
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:31 am

RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:47 am

Quoting Bullpitt (Reply 21):
I think management has done a failry good job so far, specially considering they have had profits for the last 8 or 9 yrs, when others have had nothing but losses.

Management under the ex-CEO Xabier de Irala was far better than now. Anyhow I admit "1999-2000 Plan Director" was pretty appropriate although according to mi personal point of view it was a bit conservative. On this way, Air Europa is more brave and less conservative than IB. With new state-of-the-art A-330's and then A-350's, new intercontinetal destinations and the likely Air Europa's membership in SkyTeam, Iberia will have (or they could have) the main competition at home in a medium-term.

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 24):
Otherwise why have they developed such a big route network to/from there through the years?.

 Yeah sure Let's make sure of the facts ...such a big (?) route network ....is a past fact.

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 24):
Only time will tell, and I guess in the end it could prove you wrong

Why do you seem be so obsessed with me? Sometimes I can not understand this behaviour towards me ...Then, are you saying BCN will someday be (or it could be) a world-class airport in the measure of JFK, CDG, LHR, SIN, SYD, LAX, AMS etc... or just are you enjoying while you argue me??

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 24):
Besides, the new terminal that's being built at BCN will be as big as MAD's T4

SO what? A new bigger airport doesn't automatically mean new operators.

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 24):
upon the arrival of LCC's to "El Prat", which btw is becoming a BIG "LCC paradise".

Did you see? You are contradicting yourself!!! IF BCN "El Prat" is a BIG "LCC paradise" it's unlikely BCN could be a "World-Class" airport not now or within 10 years.

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 34):
The difference is that LH had to open a second hub in MUC because of FRA congestion.



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 34):
MAD has just expended, with a brand new terminal, geographically well positionned in the country : with a high frequencies shuttle system to the other major Spanish/European cities, this strategy makes sense.



By the way, you're one of the few who see's the situation as it is, FlySSC. I would like to meet you in my next visit to Paris. I have a friend from my childhood who is an AF cabin crew and every year --or almost-- I visit Paris.

Quoting BCNGRO (Reply 36):
Also notice the difference between AZ and IB policies on MXP and BCN respectively...

definitely!!! and it is because Milan has much more powerful within Italy than Barcelona in Spain. The Iberia's/Air Europa's/Spanair's Madrid-Barajas Hub outshines any airport in Spain, unlike FCO in Italy.

When 3 carriers choose Madrid --and not BCN-- as their main base/hub is because some type of reason. Think about it, BCNGRO.
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
TriStar500
Posts: 4423
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 9:50 pm

RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:08 pm

Am I seeing things, or wasn't there a scenario, where IB would start their long-awaited low cost daughter (I remember the project name "Air Cat", possibly for "Catalunya") in BCN?
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5325
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:24 pm

Quoting Anxebla (Reply 40):
By the way, you're one of the few who see's the situation as it is, FlySSC. I would like to meet you in my next visit to Paris. I have a friend from my childhood who is an AF cabin crew and every year --or almost-- I visit Paris.

That will be a pleasure ! just leave me a mail  Wink
 
bolu340
Topic Author
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:36 pm

RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:52 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 34):



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 34):

I doubt they will drop BCN-ORY ...
AF is operatiing a profitable quasi shuttle on CDG-BCN with 9 x Daily flights ...and IB has a lucrative monopoly on the BCN-ORY route

I didn' t say they would drop BCN-ORY, this may be one of the few routes which may survive from BCN on IB!!

And actually IB does not have a monopoly on this route....Easyjet operates the route as well as Vueling 3x daily....
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5325
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:37 pm

Quoting Bolu340 (Reply 43):
I didn' t say they would drop BCN-ORY, this may be one of the few routes which may survive from BCN on IB!!



Quoting Bolu340 (Thread starter):
Rumours are they will only leave LHR, ORY and FRA as european destinations out of BCN.

All my apologies for this. I didn't read properly !

Quoting Bolu340 (Reply 43):
And actually IB does not have a monopoly on this route....Easyjet operates the route as well as Vueling 3x daily....

Right. "Monopoly" is not the right word. I was thinking only to AF competition, as AF is not flying anymore to Spain from ORY.
Is IB still flying to both ORY & CDG from BCN ?
 
bolu340
Topic Author
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:36 pm

RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:17 pm

Quoting Bolu340 (Reply 43):

Right. "Monopoly" is not the right word. I was thinking only to AF competition, as AF is not flying anymore to Spain from ORY.
Is IB still flying to both ORY & CDG from BCN ?

IB only flies to ORY from BCN.

By the way LH is increasing flights from BCN to Germany..

BCN-DUS from 3x to 4x daily
BCN-STR from 3x to 4x daily
BCN-MUC will get 5x daily

And have a look at JK:

BCN-ZRH will be added from April on as codeshare with LH and LX.

All are profiting from IB "new strategy"
 
IBERIA747
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:43 am

RE: IB To Cancel More BCN Flights

Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting Anxebla (Reply 40):
Otherwise why have they developed such a big route network to/from there through the years?.

Let's make sure of the facts ...such a big (?) route network ....is a past fact.

IB started flights to BCN in 1927. Between then and recent years a big route network has been built to/from BCN by Iberia. The history says so and nobody can change that.

It has been only in recent years that IB has seen their activity decrease in BCN, but they're not the only airline operating there and as another fact that nobody can change, traffic at EL Prat airport has been growing nicely...27,1 million pax in 2005 from 24 million in 2004 demonstrate it.

Well...in fact it's because of competition that IB is losing terrain there. And as Bullpitt said, if IB can't make a profit operating at BCN they will take their aircraft somewhere else and make that profit...as simple as that.

Quoting Anxebla (Reply 40):
SO what? A new bigger airport doesn't automatically mean new operators.

Oh well...AENA is just wasting the taxpayers money then just for fun. Oh wait!! €6,2 Billion have been wasted in Madrid as well!!!!.

A new or bigger airport can mean new operators or not, but what definitely represents is the key to cope with the traffic increase in the short-mid-long term. AENA is not stupid and they are not investing a huge amount of money in BCN just for fun.

Btw I was wrong about something. I said that BCN's new terminal will be as big as MAD's T4. Well...I was wrong and I admit it.

The truth is that it will be BIGGER than MAD's T4 (not including MAD's satellite as before). It will have more than 500,000 sq. meters of floor area while MAD's T4 has 470,000 sq. meters. That will make BCN's new terminal the world's 2nd largest terminal building and Europe's 1st.

Quoting Anxebla (Reply 40):
Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 24):
upon the arrival of LCC's to "El Prat", which btw is becoming a BIG "LCC paradise".

Did you see? You are contradicting yourself!!! If BCN "El Prat" is a BIG "LCC paradise" it's unlikely BCN could be a "World-Class" airport not now or within 10 years.

Dude, LCCs are not the only operators at BCN. There are quite a few legacy carriers operating there as well, and having more LCCs than other airports doesn't exactly mean being less important so I am not contradicting myself, and as BCNGRO said, other airlines will be happy to fill the free space left by IB...as much as I dislike the idea.

About being "World-Class", let me tell you that we don't have a single "World-Class" airport in the entire Iberian Peninsula...and we won't.

MAD has turned into a HUGE airport, with more terminals area than any other airport in Europe, and good expectations for future traffic growth, but...let's think where MAD's traffic comes from: Latin America, Europe and Spain...with a handful of destinations in North America, Africa and the Middle East, so it's not a "World-Class" airport at the level of CDG, LAX, LHR, AMS, FRA, JFK or NRT.

If we take the Latam flights away, then MAD turns into a HUGE regional airport with very few long haul flights...same thing BCN is right now. Remember that 50% of pax going through MAD every year are flying in domestic flights.

It's a normal thing that MAD has always attracted more traffic than BCN...it's the nation's capital but it doesn't mean that BCN is not important. In fact, Barcelona is MUCH more important than Madrid as a tourist destination, and is also an important business center.

I don't think BCN will ever have the amount of traffic MAD has, but it's FAR from being "just another airport".

Yes, I am against the nationalistic ideas coming from there, but that doesn't mean I can't accept the fact that BCN is a great city.

Barcelona is a great touristic, financial, commercial and industrial center. In fact, I have really enjoyed each and everyone of my trips over there, and I have ver good friends there as well.

Quoting Anxebla (Reply 40):
Quoting FlySSC (Reply 34):
MAD has just expended, with a brand new terminal, geographically well positionned in the country : with a high frequencies shuttle system to the other major Spanish/European cities, this strategy makes sense.

Yes, it definitely makes sense. However, this only applies to IB.

As I said before (and that's a fact you can't change) there are plenty of other airlines operating at El Prat, so IB's decrease of activity there will not mean the end of the word for that airport.

I just hope that IB's managing team know very well what they're doing since I hope to see IB around for the years to come.

My first flight on IB was in 1974 to JFK and I have flown about 100 times with them so I hope their strategy will be successful, although I can't deny that I have my doubts, and as always, I have my share of criticism towards Fernando Conte and his "crew".

Quoting Anxebla (Reply 40):
Why do you seem be so obsessed with me? Sometimes I can not understand this behaviour towards me



Quoting Anxebla (Reply 40):
are you enjoying while you argue me??

Oh God...no comments.
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