BMIFlyer
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Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:21 am

After looking at this pic....


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Photo © Sam Chui



I had to ask myself "How many more planes will NW park"?


Will any of these end up with other airlines u think??



Lee
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
ATLFlyer323
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:24 am

Quoting BMIFlyer (Thread starter):
Will any of these end up with other airlines u think??

I sure hope that the Airbus and Boeing 757's will be able to ifnd new homes!

~Brandon
Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
 
vegasplanes
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:26 am

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 1):

I sure hope that the Airbus and Boeing 757's will be able to ifnd new homes!

Most likely NW is trying to re-negotiate the leases on these planes as they are relatively new, park them for the time being until agreement with leasing company is worked out. Of course, it may not get worked out.

I would think those aircraft would not have much difficulty finding a new home. Big expansion for F9 or B6 with the busses, maybe US picks up the 757's ?
 
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United_fan
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:30 am

Vegasplanes,US's 757's are RR powered . DL/UA/nW are P&W powered . Not likely .
"Suspicion is a matter of opinion"
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:30 am

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 2):
Most likely NW is trying to re-negotiate the leases on these planes as they are relatively new, park them for the time being until agreement with leasing company is worked out. Of course, it may not get worked out.

Surely if NW can still run a full service without these aircraft, then they don't really need them do they? I mean, why not give up the leases, and save money?

I'm guessing it aint that simple...


Lee
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
ejmmsu
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:36 am

Well, they are parking more new, leased planes in leiu of the DC-9's which are paid for. If the lease rates don't come down, and NW finds a viable (cheaper than the lease rates on the Busses) DC-9 replacement, those jets may just find a new home, and it really wouldn't hurt NW. One thing NW is really trying to do right now is "right-size" their fleet and fleet-types for the domestic markets they serve.

They have hit a home-run with their international A330's (and future 787's), and now they are trying to do the same with their domestic fleet. (Which in my estimation means "bye-bye DC-9's and Avros and say hello to Americas new largest domestic operator of the E-Jet")
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
andessmf
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:55 am

Dang, man! That looked like DTW or MEM to me. I dont remember UA or DL parking newer planes. That is what I find shocking!

Correct me if Im wrong.
 
Tornado82
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:57 am

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 5):
hello to Americas new largest domestic operator of the E-Jet

US might be willing to debate that title before all is said and done.
 
B6FAN
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:13 am

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 2):
Most likely NW is trying to re-negotiate the leases on these planes as they are relatively new, park them for the time being until agreement with leasing company is worked out. Of course, it may not get worked out.

I would think those aircraft would not have much difficulty finding a new home. Big expansion for F9 or B6 with the busses, maybe US picks up the 757's ?

I doubt B6 would acquire those 320's. We only get new ones. Maybe F9..
JetBlue Airways...
 
piercey
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:16 am

Quoting Andessmf (Reply 6):
I dont remember UA or DL parking newer planes.

UA parked a few 777s until they found a new home with AI.
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
 
aviatortj
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:22 pm

Quoting B6fan (Reply 8):
I doubt B6 would acquire those 320's. We only get new ones. Maybe F9..

F9 has picked up second hand busses? If the price is right anyone will pick them up. Yes even B6.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:28 pm

Who's Blue and White 747SP was that? Did KE have one?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Dokken10
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:24 pm

I bet some are parked due to heavy maintenance checks that are due also.
 
CO7e7
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:37 pm

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 1):
I sure hope that the Airbus and Boeing 757's will be able to ifnd new homes!

If not that, i hope one day the industry will pick up and we'll see these planes back in business!!
How many pilots did NW lay off as part of the industry's downfall?

Quoting Piercey (Reply 9):
UA parked a few 777s until they found a new home with AI.

Correct me if i'm wrong, the # of UA T7s that AI is using is 3. Right ?
 
QXatFAT
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:54 pm

Maybe UPS will pick up some 757's??? They can use them for shorter domestic flights. What about CO as well? I can see the 320's going to F9.
Don't Tread On Me!
 
premobrimo
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:00 pm

How does NW determine which aircraft to park? It just seems like a real waste to park an aircraft that was just painted in the new livery.
Now You're Flying Smart.
 
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gunsontheroof
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:03 pm

Quoting Premobrimo (Reply 15):
How does NW determine which aircraft to park? It just seems like a real waste to park an aircraft that was just painted in the new livery.

The livery is irrelevant. I'm sure the planes that get parked are parked for different reasons...age, persistant maintenance issues, etc.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
Dokken10
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:09 pm

Quoting Premobrimo (Reply 15):
How does NW determine which aircraft to park? It just seems like a real waste to park an aircraft that was just painted in the new livery.

It probably has a lot to do with heavy maintenance that is due. The new paint could have been done a couple of years ago and now is due for a heavy check. Some could be parked because the lease company does not want anymore hours put on the plane until they work it out in BK.
 
Nimish
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:54 pm

Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 13):
Correct me if i'm wrong, the # of UA T7s that AI is using is 3. Right ?

Yes - that's right - and they seem to be doing OK at AI so far. I also though UA did not have any further 777s for AI to pick up - maybe someone can confirm.
Incredible India!
 
DTWAGENT
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:00 pm

Well I counted 32 aircraft of NWA sitting their..... Guess they are getting ready to close up shop.... To bad.
 
Devil505x
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:03 pm

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 7):
US might be willing to debate that title before all is said and done.

I was thinking the same thing?

Hey does this mean that US and NW won't be a "major airline?" I was thinking. Isn't US more of a "regional airline"? Maybe we'll see some name/slogan changes:
US Regional Airways "Hey we ain't got real jets but we'll get you there"
Northwest Regional Airlines "Ever wonder what a sardine feels like? Then fly us!
 
na
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:10 pm

To my knowledge many of NWs planes are parked there for the time leases are renegotiated. 744s N661,2 and 3 US were there in November/Decemeber last year and fly again now. That will also be the case with some of these 757s and A320s. The 742s in the back though are old, mostly older than 25 years and were retired in 2002-04. They won´t come back, at least not most of them.
 
burnsie28
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:35 am

Quoting Dokken10 (Reply 17):
It probably has a lot to do with heavy maintenance that is due. The new paint could have been done a couple of years ago and now is due for a heavy check.

The ones in the new paint got the heavy checks when they were painted, thats the only time that NW is changing the livery. These planes are all there for lease renegotiations.
 
Dokken10
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:45 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 22):
The ones in the new paint got the heavy checks when they were painted, thats the only time that NW is changing the livery.

They could have been in for a L or H check when they were painted and now are due for a H or M check.
 
ejmmsu
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:02 am

Quoting Devil505x (Reply 20):
US Regional Airways "Hey we ain't got real jets but we'll get you there"
Northwest Regional Airlines "Ever wonder what a sardine feels like? Then fly us!

Have you ever been on an E-Jet? The seats are wider than on an A320/737, and most passengers I've talked to on my E-Jet flights agree with me when they say that it is the most comfortable coach class aircraft they have ever flown on.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
TPAPDX
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:58 am

Anyone know what the 742's are going for?

What is their scrap value?
 
lemonkitty
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:38 am

Another NW "Graveyard"...Maxton, NC...Enjoy...


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Photo © James Richard Covington

I met my wife on Airliners.Net!!!!
 
FCYTravis
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:09 am

Quoting Devil505x (Reply 20):
Hey does this mean that US and NW won't be a "major airline?" I was thinking. Isn't US more of a "regional airline"?

The new US Airways is the fifth-largest airline in the United States. The old US was focused on the Northeast and East Coast, but not anymore.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
scoljet
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:30 am

This is just where DC9's go to relax for awhile before being put back into service. Kinda like club med for old airframes! Long live the diesel 9's!!!!
 
EMBQA
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:30 am

Quoting Dokken10 (Reply 12):
I bet some are parked due to heavy maintenance checks that are due also.

Doubtful... Leasing companies will not let you park a plane unless the inspections are current and many times you need to do a fresh C-check upon return.... even if it's not due.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 22):
The ones in the new paint got the heavy checks when they were painted, thats the only time that NW is changing the livery

Not true... Every airline I have ever delt with in reguards to paint has pulled the plane right off the flying line, none, zero have come from a heavy check. Few if any manufactures require a full strip now a days as the NDT can see through paint.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
ramerinianair
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:31 am

Quoting B6fan (Reply 8):
I doubt B6 would acquire those 320's. We only get new ones. Maybe F9..

Well excuse us . . . .
Some of the parked NW A320s may be newer than your first few A/C!
SR
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
MakeMinesLAX
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:39 am

Quoting Nimish (Reply 18):
Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 13):
Correct me if i'm wrong, the # of UA T7s that AI is using is 3. Right ?

Yes - that's right - and they seem to be doing OK at AI so far. I also though UA did not have any further 777s for AI to pick up - maybe someone can confirm.

IIRC, Varig got the rest.
 
karan69
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:00 pm

Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 13):
Correct me if i'm wrong, the # of UA T7s that AI is using is 3. Right



Quoting MakeMinesLAX (Reply 31):
Quoting Nimish (Reply 18):
Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 13):
Correct me if i'm wrong, the # of UA T7s that AI is using is 3. Right ?

Yes - that's right - and they seem to be doing OK at AI so far. I also though UA did not have any further 777s for AI to pick up - maybe someone can confirm.

IIRC, Varig got the rest.

Actually the last 777 [4th one] which AI got, VT-AIR, is a 777-200A which AI did get from Varig, but Varig got it from UA, so technically speaking AI has all 4 of its 777s from UA.

Coming to the topic of NW, are their major hubs DTW,MEM huge O & D markets, because they fly several services to EU from there.

Are they any international destinations that the 757s fly to barring the regional NRT routes.

Also is NRT their most successful hub.????---profit wise and what are the destinations they fly to from NRT?? with what aircraft and frequencies
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:25 am

The parked NW planes are parked for several reasons:

1) Cutbacks due to Fuel costs
2) Cutbacks due to BK
3) Lease re-negotiation
4) Heavy Checks
5) Route/schedule restructuring due indirectly to 1 & 2
 
Devil505x
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:34 am

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 24):
Have you ever been on an E-Jet? The seats are wider than on an A320/737, and most passengers I've talked to on my E-Jet flights agree with me when they say that it is the most comfortable coach class aircraft they have ever flown on.

I am 6'4" 250lbs. I have flown on E-jets and I have cleaned and loaded them as a ramper. Let me tell I do not find them comfortable! If you are 5'4" 150lbs then any plane would be comfortable! I cannot stand straight up in CRJs' or ERJs either. When I worked with 737s I was fine I could manuever myself all around even in the cargo hold. One thing about the crews on the 737s is that they would always say "Those aren't real jets who wants to fly them?" and I found the FAs to be MORE PROFESSIONAL. Because I heard this it backed up my own feelings
I think comfort really comes down to the airline though and how much they are willing to focus on this aspect or airtravel.
 
Dokken10
Posts: 286
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:19 pm

RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Sat Mar 04, 2006 4:18 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 29):
Doubtful... Leasing companies will not let you park a plane unless the inspections are current and many times you need to do a fresh C-check upon return.... even if it's not due.

Parked or flown the leasing company could care less as long as they are getting paid!! All leases are different some leasing companies pay for C or D checks or is built into lease payments. They are in BK and re-writing the leases so maintenance could be put on hold until they work out the details, returning or not returning. Most of the leases are held by Wilson and Cheechi in a separate company. DAL just went through some details about proper maintenance with a leasing company on about 14 planes in the BK court. BTW, NWA has L,H,M checks they don't use the standard A,B,C,D checks. Not ALL NWA planes are leased also.
 
Dokken10
Posts: 286
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Sat Mar 04, 2006 4:39 am

Since NWA closed down the ATL hangar and engine shop, they have had some major problems finding enough good engines to keep the entire DC-9 fleet flying. I would bet the 9s that are parked are higher cycled airframes and the lower ones are getting the good engines. Nwa sold off most of their spare parts years ago and they could be using the parked planes as part planes instead of buying parts.
 
Dokken10
Posts: 286
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:19 pm

RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Sat Mar 04, 2006 4:47 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 29):
Doubtful... Leasing companies will not let you park a plane unless the inspections are current and many times you need to do a fresh C-check upon return.... even if it's not due.

Tell me if you were a leasing company wouldn't you want to get back a lower cycled plane than a higher cycled plane? Especially if the company you are leasing to is in BK!!
 
Dokken10
Posts: 286
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:19 pm

RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:05 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 29):
Doubtful... Leasing companies will not let you park a plane unless the inspections are current and many times you need to do a fresh C-check upon return.... even if it's not due.

Do you know about the fly by the hour lease?
 
EMBQA
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:52 am

Quoting Dokken10 (Reply 37):
Tell me if you were a leasing company wouldn't you want to get back a lower cycled plane than a higher cycled plane

I've been directly involoved in aircraft leasing. They want and most all require a fresh overhauled aircraft so they can re-lease it easier.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
chazzerguy
Posts: 271
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RE: Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard?

Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:24 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):
Who's Blue and White 747SP was that? Did KE have one?

Yes, that was an old KE plane. They had two of them. The other one just got cut up in the past couple weeks (it was also at MZJ).

KE sold both their SPs back to Boeing in the late 90's. Boeing donated them to an organization that was going to convert them into flying hospitals, but that plan fizzled. Both planes have/had been at MZJ since KE unloaded them.

The one in that photo is owned by a startup airline called TransAtlantic International, but I don't expect they will ever get it flying again.

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