SeeTheWorld
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 am

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:03 am

 
SBN580
Posts: 374
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:55 am

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:13 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 24):
Given that DL is twice as large, that would account to Airtran being MORE LIKELY to cancel your flight than DL! Way to go, FL!!!

You know, however we push these numbers around, I am not sure it will make a great impact one way or the other.

Quoting 73G (Reply 27):
Simply put, get over it. Size has nothing to do it. At least not to the DOT, but what do they know?

Size always matters doesn't? Big grin

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 29):
This was a brilliant PR response by AirTran.


Your kidding me right? I am not defending Delta's press release. They were trying to split a few hairs. And I think to the general public, all the one point this two point something or other is meaningless. I don't think it will get them a whole lot more passengers at ATL or anywhere else. AirTran's response however shows they know little about public relations.

Some in our society these days, may think this comment quoted from AirTran's press release is funny:

"..So if you don't need to get there and don't really like your luggage, fly Delta; but when the trip matters and you really want to get to your final destination with your bags and a smile on your face, fly AirTran Airways," said Healy. "I would have thought Delta would have more important things to focus on with their bankruptcy, record losses and pending pilots' strike than this, but I appreciate them giving us the opportunity to set the record straight."

This type of sarcastic little snipe makes them only look immature and unprofessional. And that's BAD public relations. It isn't what I learned about PR in college and in ten years of doing it in the workplace.
North Central: Good People Made Their Airline Great! FLY MD-90 POWER! Keep 'em Flying DELTA Family!
 
richierich
Posts: 3617
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:18 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 37):
I was stating that if Delta were to have so many more complaints against it as compared to FL, the numbers would have to be higher. Therefore, Delta has less complaints as compared to
the size of the two carriers.



Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 37):
By size, Delta operates several hundred more flights than Airtran. Therefore, of course there will be a higher cancellation rate. When FL is flying as many flights a month as DL(not anytime soon), then we can see who has the better cancellation rate, etc.

As FlyPNS pointed out, Otto, do you not understand basic math? I really didn't want to get into this argument but I was sort of amazed that you don't understand "rates" as opposed to simple "figures". For somebody who likes twisting facts and numbers around so much, I would have guessed you'd be right on top of this.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 37):
At least if it were to get left in SFO, we could get it there a couple hours later. Just think, if you were on FL with their one flight a day, you wouldn't get it until the next day.

True. But using your own logic, with only one flight, they'd be a lot less likely to lose that bag in the first place.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 40):
You know, Otto, I try to have a sense of humor when reading your posts, but when all is said and done, they just make me have a very negative feeling about Delta. Your negative arrogance makes me want to criticize Delta, and I don't even fly them or care one way or the other!

This is basically how I feel too. I know that neither Otto or NRK are truly representative of Delta - otherwise nobody would fly them - but I have sensed the arrogance of DL before and I don't like it. I'm not necessarily anti-Delta, although I can rattle off several personal examples of bad experiences I have had, but I have never liked the corporate strategy of trying to put their competitors out of business instead of simply trying to make money and focusing on their own issues.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 37):
Well, as much as I would love to continue this for the immediate future, but St. Maarten's beaches are calling me this weekend(try to take FL there, ain't gonna happen). LOL So I will be away from a.net for the next couple of days, so if you don't see me poking around for a little bit, don't worry, I'll be back soon enough.

Ah, the benefit of working for an airline. Where in St. Maarten do you hang out, the French or Dutch side? I plan on going there late next month but I won't tell you how I'll be getting there....
None shall pass!!!!
 
SeeTheWorld
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Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 am

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Sat Mar 04, 2006 2:10 am

Quoting SBN580 (Reply 52):
AirTran's response however shows they know little about public relations.

Yea, Sure, Fine, Whatever ...

You've got it backwards my friend. Delta, plain and simply, blew it on this one.
 
scoljet
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RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:04 am

Well put SeeTheWorld....sometimes we cut off our foot despite our toes!
 
SBN580
Posts: 374
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:55 am

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:12 am

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 54):
You've got it backwards my friend. Delta, plain and simply, blew it on this one.

I'm not saying they didn't. They tried to score a few points, that facts could not fully back up. Fine. It's just that AirTran should have let the facts speak for themselves, which they did have in their release. It's the paragraph I quoted which was unnecssary and unprofessional.
North Central: Good People Made Their Airline Great! FLY MD-90 POWER! Keep 'em Flying DELTA Family!
 
travatl
Posts: 1946
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2001 4:57 pm

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Sat Mar 04, 2006 4:22 am

Did somebody at Delta PR have a brain tumor for breakfast?

MAYBE, if Delta had been better than AirTran in all the DOT categories, and had had a SIGNIFICANTLY better on-time rate, I could have seen something like this going out. But to expose yourself when the other carrier has better numbers in the other categories (especially complaints!), and your on-time performance is a mere 2pt difference (75% vs. 73%), is ludicrous!

This is sad to watch... It's like your house burning down, but instead of running for water, you're standing out front claiming your lawn looks better than your neighbor's.

Get a clue Delta... the desert is littered with the grounded airplanes of other arrogant airlines.
1 Interview. 24 years. 3 Airlines.
 
B777-700
Posts: 1244
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 1999 10:52 am

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:11 am

I read both and Delta's release came off as factual, and professional. AirTran gave me the impression they were run by 6 year olds. It was full of personal attacks and tainted numbers. Of course Delta will have a higher percentage of what AirTran claims, Delta is twice as large! This does little for my confidence in flying AirTran. I don't want a carrier that is going to distort the facts to me, and one that behaves the way they did in that press release.

Also, those of you who are rooting for Delta to go out of business should be ashamed of yourselves. Bankruptcy is nothing to cheer for. Your friends and neighbors way of living is on the line. You can not support a company, (I myself do not like Ford, but no way would I want them to go under) but you should pray that those people caught in all this will avoid all the misery it will bring. Those of you who champion it are disgusting and have a lot to learn.
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 3305
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 37):
Sure it does. By size, Delta operates several hundred more flights than Airtran. Therefore, of course there will be a higher cancellation rate. When FL is flying as many flights a month as DL(not anytime soon), then we can see who has the better cancellation rate, etc.

Otto, it's OK if you weren't a math major or anything. I wasn't either. And it's OK if you don't understand the rate (percentage) as opposed to actual cancellations.

Let me give you an example.

Say there are 100 questions on a test, and you get 80 of them correct. You got an 80% on that test.

Say there are 500 questions on a test, and you get 400 of them correct. You too get an 80% on that test.

Now let's use airlines.

If FL has 100 flights and cancels 10, they have a 10% cancellation rate.

If DL has 500 flights and cancels 50, they too have a 10% cancellation rate.

Now, let's take actual figures.

DL has a 1.7% cancellation rate. FL has a 1.4%.

If DL scheduled 800 flights a day and cancelled 1.7% of them, that means that it cancelled 13.6 flights.

If FL scheduled 800 flights a day and cancelled 1.4% of them, that means that it cancelled 11.2 flights.

Obviously, you cannot cancel a fraction of a flight, but you know what I'm getting at.

DOT classifies their data the same way - based on a percentage. As you can see, the amount of total flights doesn't matter. What matters is the rate of flights cancelled.

Hope this helps.

JetBluefan1
 
SeeTheWorld
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 am

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:24 am

Quoting Travatl (Reply 57):
This is sad to watch... It's like your house burning down, but instead of running for water, you're standing out front claiming your lawn looks better than your neighbor's.

LOL ... Okay, now that's just one of the funniest things I've read in a long time.
 
SeeTheWorld
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 am

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:28 am

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 58):
I read both and Delta's release came off as factual, and professional. AirTran gave me the impression they were run by 6 year olds. It was full of personal attacks and tainted numbers. Of course Delta will have a higher percentage of what AirTran claims, Delta is twice as large! This does little for my confidence in flying AirTran. I don't want a carrier that is going to distort the facts to me, and one that behaves the way they did in that press release.

ESCUSE ME! Have you not read any of the other posts? Your basic knowledge in math is lacking!!!!! This issue has been raised by a few other members who also, like you, don't understand basic statistics.

Please! Please! Please! READ THE POSTINGS BEFORE YOU MAKE THE SAME INACCURATE STATEMENTS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN MADE AND REFUTED!!!!

Jeez people! AirTran's press release was factual!

[Edited 2006-03-03 21:31:01]
 
B777-700
Posts: 1244
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RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:45 am

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 61):
ESCUSE ME! Have you not read any of the other posts? Your basic knowledge in math is lacking!!!!! This issue has been raised by a few other members who also, like you, don't understand basic statistics.

Please! Please! Please! READ THE POSTINGS BEFORE YOU MAKE THE SAME INACCURATE STATEMENTS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN MADE AND REFUTED!!!!

Jeez people! AirTran's press release was factual!

I'm sorry, but no amout of ranting and raving on your part is going to change what I believe. AirTran came across to me as very childish, and you are doing a lot to support that impression.
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
SeeTheWorld
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 am

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:12 am

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 62):
I'm sorry, but no amout of ranting and raving on your part is going to change what I believe. AirTran came across to me as very childish, and you are doing a lot to support that impression.

What you believe and what is fact are two different things. I just ask that you read the previous posts when you bring up the same issues that have been addressed. The size of the airlines is taken into account in the statistics.

With regard to your opinion that AirTran's press release was childish, I respect your opinion on that. Some people think it was childish, others don't. Since I believe that Delta should have known that they were setting themselves up for a unfavorable comparison by AirTran, I will continue to view the press release as clever and downright humorous. But, more importantly, it illustrates a systemic problem with management's decision making in Atlanta, and that's the real problem here. We can agree to disagree on that issue.

However, the facts are the facts, and if you refuse to re-read the many examples given above that explain, fairly simply, why the larger size of Delta has been taken into account with the numbers in AirTran's press release, then the 99% of the rest of us who understand basic math will just have to accept your stubbornness and refusal to learn what is fact and why it's fact.

[Edited 2006-03-03 22:13:57]
 
richierich
Posts: 3617
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:20 am

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 62):
I'm sorry, but no amout of ranting and raving on your part is going to change what I believe. AirTran came across to me as very childish, and you are doing a lot to support that impression.

Umm, OK, so your opinion is that Delta's statement was professional and yet AirTran's retort was childish?
Now you are making me laugh.
Let me put it to you this way: would AirTran have made a statement if not for Delta's on Wednesday? We may never know but I'm going with 'No.'

The only thing AirTran was guilty of was stooping to Delta's PR level. Throw in a couple of memorable sound-bites (are they sound-bites if written?) and you have a situation like the one that happened today. B777, I think you are sour because DL is, once-again, forced to do the corporate back track. Sad but it was avoidable. DL would be best served to just let this one go.
None shall pass!!!!
 
B777-700
Posts: 1244
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RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:51 am

Quoting Richierich (Reply 64):
B777, I think you are sour because DL is,

Am I sour? I have no loyality towards either of them.

I don't understand this. Why do the both of you decide to attack me for expressing how I feel about the issue? I read both, and I posted my impressions. It is not right or wrong. You just do not agree with it.

Is this what I should expect the people who like AirTran on here?
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:00 pm

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 65):
It is not right or wrong.

Your view that AirTran was being childish is neither right nor wrong, it is as you said, your opinion. I respect that.

BUT, your statement about the size of Delta making a difference in the statistics presented by AirTran is WRONG. It's not an opinion, it's a fact; and it's basic sixth grade math. When numbers are expressed as a percent, they take into account the size, i.e. they normalize the difference sizes of the airlines so that the relative percentages can be compared against one another without bias.

That was our point.
 
WDBRR
Posts: 605
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RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:03 pm

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 13):
edited to add a bitch slap

How many straight guys use the term "bitch slap"...not many.

I think it was very unprofessional of Delta to issue that press release.
I am glad that AirTran fought back with "congratulating" Delta and
"Why stop there" response. It was a very good comeback.
well worded and executed.
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 3305
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:12 pm

I think the bitch slap serves the purpose well, actually.

And I'm straight.

JetBluefan1
 
N742AT
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:02 am

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:29 pm

To sum this whole thread up! Delta was wrong to come out with the release in the first place, Airtran rightfully so responded in a humorous yet authoritative way, which I think will show Delta that nothing they do will EVER scare/intimidate Airtran. As far as who has the better management, the way I see it is it takes a lot to run a airline and make it successful, although at this point it looks like Airtran is doing great there probably will come a time where they are going through the troubles just like Delta is, so they might not want to raise up as high as they are yet. The size of the airline doesn't matter at all that's why ratios are in place, and lastly the phrase bitch slapped is commonly used by straight men, and knowing Airtran737 socially, I know he is not gay and probably wouldn't appreciate being called such. Lets try to respect each other on here, to me that is the only thing in this thread that would be considered childish.

[Edited 2006-03-04 04:31:05]
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:42 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 40):

Hmm, after your entire post, not only have you brought absolutely NOTHING to the conversation, but you also personally attack me, which reeks of desperation to the contrary, and I'm the one getting younger by the day? And this is coming from a grown, middle-aged adult? Give me just a moment please..... rotfl 

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 40):
Oh wait, you probably non-rev'd it.

Hell yea! The only way to fly, first class all the way! Can't really say Airtran can provide that, can we?

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 40):
You know, Otto, I try to have a sense of humor when reading your posts, but when all is said and done, they just make me have a very negative feeling about Delta

And I care because....?

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 40):
Your negative arrogance makes me want to criticize Delta, and I don't even fly them or care one way or the other!

Then don't. I think you are confusing yourself(easily done, I'm sure). I do not come on here to try to coerce people to fly Delta or to drive anyone away. I could care less really if you wanted to or not. I come on here to voice my opinion on things, as you do. I do not come on here to try to be some kind of Delta PR person or what not, so I am not sure exactly where you are coming from there. If you want to fly Delta, then do so. If you don't want to fly Delta, then don't. I'm certainly not losing any sleep at night from it. And please, don't let me be your deciding factor as to who you will fly. God forbid your flight pushes back 5 minutes late, I will not be responsible for your life suddenly ruined.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 40):
No one is going to race to Delta if you keep quiet, but at least you don't drive them away.

Did you not understand what I just said?

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 45):
Wow...you can't even do basic math. This explains a lot about your ridiculous responses.

HA! And this is coming from the faceless coward who will post one thing and then never provide any proof or even defend his argument, even though he "claims" to know anyone everywhere? Riiiiiiight. I have already made clear that math is not my thing. It never has been and probably never will be. You should have seen my report cards in high school. A's all the way down until you get to Algebra and Calculas, then D. Damn math always dragged down my GPA. Yet, even though I am willing to admit what my weakness is, while still sticking to the subject, there are those of you who can find no way to argue my point than to criticize my math. Therefore your arguments are pretty weak.

Quoting Scoljet (Reply 48):
Meanwhile AirTran drops our MDW service and cuts the number of flights daily to ATL.

Oooh, but the sweet darling Airtan would never do something like that, would they? And I'm right once again.

Quoting SBN580 (Reply 52):
You know, however we push these numbers around, I am not sure it will make a great impact one way or the other.

Oh my God. Someone actually gets the point of it all. Remind me to add you to my RU list, if I haven't already.

Quoting Richierich (Reply 53):
I really didn't want to get into this argument

Oh darn!  frown  Are you sure you don't want to get into it? Because, you know, I love proving you wrong, as I have so many times in the past.

Quoting Richierich (Reply 53):
For somebody who likes twisting facts and numbers around so much, I would have guessed you'd be right on top of this.

And this coming from someone who apparently "had" facts and figures for something else, and had those facts and figures blown up into his face. And then likes to twist the facts to fit his own agenda instead of seeing the truth? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!  laughing 

Quoting Richierich (Reply 53):
True. But using your own logic, with only one flight, they'd be a lot less likely to lose that bag in the first place.

Thanks. Using your logic, you just proved your ignorance of the airline industry and how it works. You think whether an airline has 1 flight or 10 flights to a city will determine if a bag is lost or not? Please explain this logic to me. How is it if a flight arrives from LGA, and is to be loaded on a flight to SFO, how that 1 flight will determine whether some FL bagrunner not paying attention and just glanced at the bag tag would not throw it on a flight to MCO as compared to SFO? And besides, once its realized that the bag was on the wrong flight, Delta could get it there a couple hours later. FL would have to wait a day, therefore possibly ruining someone's trip. Now, how does that logic of yours work again...?

Quoting Richierich (Reply 53):
I know that neither Otto or NRK are truly representative of Delta - otherwise nobody would fly them - but I have sensed the arrogance of DL before and I don't like it.

OH MY GOD!!! DELTA HAS PISSED OFF RICHIE BEFORE!! SOMEONE CALL A SENATE HEARING ON THE ISSUE, NOW!!! I'm not sure if Delta care's if your Jetblue self has been pissed off before, but to be honest with you, I don't.

Quoting Richierich (Reply 53):
I'm not necessarily anti-Delta

Richie, stop it, your nose is growing!! You saying that is like a cancer survivor saying, "I'm not necessarily anti-cancer, but..."

Quoting Richierich (Reply 53):
Ah, the benefit of working for an airline. Where in St. Maarten do you hang out, the French or Dutch side?

Come on, any straight guy knows the side to hang out on is whatever side has the most topless women on the beach.  bigthumbsup 

Quoting Richierich (Reply 53):
I plan on going there late next month but I won't tell you how I'll be getting there....

You act like I care. I don't. Oh, but I can tell you how you won't get there, and that is Airtran or Jetblue.

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 54):
You've got it backwards my friend. Delta, plain and simply, blew it on this one.

Actually, SBN had it correct. If Airtran had used their brain, they would have known that this little percentage that Delta was better at was hardly customer-stealing, just poking a little fun at the competition. The mature thing to do would have been to laugh it off, or poke a little fun back. But no, Airtran's PR team came out swinging, going straight for the crotch. Talk about an airline that can't take a joke. I guess Airtran as a whole company has some sort of self esteem problem, and I thought it was just the workers, as to why they had to change the name to "crew members." Gee, isn't another airline already using that term?

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 58):
AirTran gave me the impression they were run by 6 year olds. It was full of personal attacks and tainted numbers.

You got that too?

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 59):
Otto, it's OK if you weren't a math major or anything. I wasn't either.

Jetbluefan, we may not always agree, but you are probably one of the more mature guys on this forum.

Quoting N742AT (Reply 69):
Delta was wrong to come out with the release in the first place, Airtran rightfully so responded in a humorous yet authoritative way,

First of all, many of Airtran's press releases have always poked at Delta, just never naming them outright. Secondly, their reply was anything but "authoritative?" Sounded more like a desperate defense to me.

Quoting N742AT (Reply 69):
think will show Delta that nothing they do will EVER scare/intimidate Airtran.

A little poked fun is trying to intimidate/scare Airtran? No, no, no. Intimidating and scaring Airtran is doing what they have been doing, like running them off routes and getting the authorities involved in Airtran's "other" way of making money.

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 50):
Communities apply for government grants to entice carriers to operate service in markets that are either lacking service or need competition, i.e. low fares.

And usually they are perfectly legal, except when the city uses taxpayer dollars to fund the grant without telling the proper owners, the taxpayers themselves. And then, on top of it all, discriminating against ALL other carriers by refusing to offer some of it to those carriers that are willing to provide more choices in non-stop travel for the taxpayers of that city. As Scoljet as said, since that incident, DL has dropped a lot of service into ICT to show the city who can hurt worse, the airline or the city. Meanwhile, the company who has reaped all those benefits, Airtran, has dropped flights and choices for the taxpayer's who's dollars are funding them.

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 50):
Usually, subsidies only last a year or so, but never more than three.

And let's see, FL is going on what, year 3 or 4 of the ICT subsidies so far? And GPT has been going on since, oh, 1998, I believe. And then there is TLH, which has been going on for.....oops, I forgot, Gov. Bush pulled the plug on those subsidies, and then FL pulled the plug on TLH. Ya gotta love the way this airline operates. "WILL FLY FOR FREE MONEY"

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 50):
All the airlines get them, and Delta has many in other markets.

No, no, no. Delta gets subsidies to provide service to communities who would otherwise see no service, like APF, and ISO, not to communities that already have several airlines providing service to the city.

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 50):
Once this original subsidy ended, Wichita went to the community so they could continue to subsidize AirTran in the ICT-ATL market.

No, they turned to the community to raise funds because when DL wrote the FAA, the FAA threatened to fine the city of Wichita unless they either offered the funds to all the airlines, or stopped providing them to FL. As you said, they have yet to give the final ruling, but I would suspect that Wichita has a hell of a fine coming their way. But why worry, they will probably once again use taxpayer money to pay it off.

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 50):
So, they responded by cutting service - a bold move on DL's part.

And so many people swore that as soon as DL cut service, FL would fly right in and scoop up all that revenue. As I repeatedly argued that they would not, Airtran has not let me down. Not only did they cut flights to their hub, they also chopped the diversity of direct flights that they were supposed to be offering in exchange for those subsidies. Yet, they are still getting subsidies? Anyone see anything else wrong with this picture?




OttoPylit
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
stlgph
Posts: 11057
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:49 am

Quoting SBN580 (Reply 52):
"..So if you don't need to get there and don't really like your luggage, fly Delta; but when the trip matters and you really want to get to your final destination with your bags and a smile on your face, fly AirTran Airways," said Healy. "I would have thought Delta would have more important things to focus on with their bankruptcy, record losses and pending pilots' strike than this, but I appreciate them giving us the opportunity to set the record straight."

This type of sarcastic little snipe makes them only look immature and unprofessional. And that's BAD public relations. It isn't what I learned about PR in college and in ten years of doing it in the workplace.

Please, if you truly studied PR you would know that this was a slam dunk on behalf of Air Tran.

Nothing "unprofessional" here except in your own little world.

In the world of PR, getting the message across is what matters.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
FlyDeltaJets
Posts: 1652
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:24 pm

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:54 pm

Ill make sure to think about Airtran the next time I am flying to Europe, Asia, or the Carribean. Oh wait they don't go there oh well Ill just settle with Delta.

Don't matter how you are making it just that you are making it.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Mon Mar 06, 2006 5:37 pm

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 70):
Hmm, after your entire post, not only have you brought absolutely NOTHING to the conversation, but you also personally attack me, which reeks of desperation to the contrary, and I'm the one getting younger by the day? And this is coming from a grown, middle-aged adult? Give me just a moment please.....

Do you just cut and paste this, or does it feel new each time you type it? Maybe you are misunderstanding how a forum works. I mean, you did type this above:

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 70):
I come on here to voice my opinion on things, as you do

Somehow, though, your opinions are "something" and mine are "nothing". I guess if I added some fuzzy math, it would suit you better.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 70):
And I care because....?

No illusions there. I'm quite sure you don't. That's what I like about you, Otto.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 24):
Now that DL stated the facts and FL came back with high-school name calling in knee-jerk defense, its pretty clear that FL can't help but admit that DL has them beat, so they spin some numbers and shoot out wrong percentages.

Speaking of "spinning some numbers":

Quoting 73G (Reply 27):
Otto, my man. Do you know what a ratio is?



Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 29):
Dude, you clearly don't understand math at all.



Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 30):
What? A percentage amount doesn't have to do with the size of the airline.



Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 41):
If you have figures per 1,000 then they are comparable. If



Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 42):
I apologize in advance, but your ignorance on simple math is astounding, and it affects the credibility of all your posts because one begins to think you might always be talking out of your a**.



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 45):
Wow...you can't even do basic math. This explains a lot about your ridiculous responses.



Quoting SBN580 (Reply 52):
You know, however we push these numbers around, I am not sure it will make a great impact one way or the other.



Quoting SBN580 (Reply 52):
This type of sarcastic little snipe makes them only look immature and unprofessional. And that's BAD public relations. It isn't what I learned about PR in college and in ten years of doing it in the workplace.



Quoting Richierich (Reply 53):
As FlyPNS pointed out, Otto, do you not understand basic math?



Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 59):
Otto, it's OK if you weren't a math major or anything. I wasn't either. And it's OK if you don't understand the rate (percentage) as opposed to actual cancellations.



Quoting N742AT (Reply 69):
The size of the airline doesn't matter at all that's why ratios are in place,

Hmmm... Your whole "numbers" diversion added a LOT to the topic.  Yeah sure

Quoting Richierich (Reply 53):
I know that neither Otto or NRK are truly representative of Delta - otherwise nobody would fly them - but I have sensed the arrogance of DL before and I don't like it. I'm not necessarily anti-Delta

Having flown Delta, I know Otto's not. I just don't understand why someone in a service industry would go out of their way to antagonize people when they know where you work?

But he made it pretty clear - he could care less. Nice.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 70):
I do not come on here to try to be some kind of Delta PR person or what not, so I am not sure exactly where you are coming from there

The thing is, you are a Delta PR person. You're an employee. Whether you care or not how you make them look is up to you. There are plenty of perfectly respectful airline employees on this forum who make their airlines seem like a great place to work and a great ride in the sky. You don't.

But - we know - you could care less.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 70):
If you want to fly Delta, then do so. If you don't want to fly Delta, then don't. I'm certainly not losing any sleep at night from it.

Again, we get it. You could care less.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 70):
And please, don't let me be your deciding factor as to who you will fly.

Normally it wouldn't, but you've inspired me.  Smile

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 70):
Ya gotta love the way this airline operates. "WILL FLY FOR FREE MONEY"

Close, Otto, very close. It's "WILL FLY FOR MONEY". "FREE MONEY" is what it's called when you take money from a lender and don't give it back.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 70):
But why worry, they will probably once again use taxpayer money to pay it off.

Kinda like Delta uses creditors money. Now I'm getting it.

FWIW, and I'm sure it's not much, you seem to have a pretty good handle on the subsidy issue. It'll be interesting to see what happens with Wichita. I've never really understood why they need subsidies.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 72):
Ill make sure to think about Airtran the next time I am flying to Europe, Asia, or the Carribean. Oh wait they don't go there oh well Ill just settle with Delta.

Typical legacy mantra. I think it's great that Delta flies to so many places. It makes them a truly valuable carrier - that is, for people who need to fly to all those places. For the large number who don't, then it really doesn't matter.

As far as the whole PR catfight, I think WJCandee along with others summed it up well. Delta left the door open and Airtran walked through. I'm not sure if I would've done the last paragraph of Airtran's press release, but at the same time, it is the part that really got the point across. What can Delta say to that?

As far as "professional" vs "Childish", I think it's more personality and playing to the base. Delta wants to sound like they're still the big bad southeast giant, but all they ended up doing was revealing their weaknesses. Airtran is a younger carrier without the inhibitions of a larger, more mature carrier, and for the few people who likely read the releases and gave a crap, they probably came off sounding pretty aggressive and confident. In the end, it doesn't really matter other than to the carriers and A.net, but it is fun to talk about.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
gr8slvrflt
Posts: 1480
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 10:53 pm

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:15 pm

Hey, Otto:

Since Math is obviously not your strong point, maybe you should focus on English. "Your" means belonging to you; "you're" means you are. It really shouldn't be so difficult for such an educated person as yourself.

Your welcome,

GR8
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
73G
Posts: 97
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:25 pm

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:45 pm

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 37):
but St. Maarten's beaches are calling me this weekend(try to take FL there, ain't gonna happen).

Wait a minute, youre able to non-rev to SXM over a weekend during Spring Break?? No wonder your airline lost $6,720 a minute in January. Must be nice having all those empty seats. Stand-by travel is a bear for us this time of year.
 
SeeTheWorld
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 am

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:49 am

Quoting N742AT (Reply 69):
and lastly the phrase bitch slapped is commonly used by straight men, and knowing Airtran737 socially, I know he is not gay and probably wouldn't appreciate being called such

LOL ... "not that there's anything wrong with it." SEINFELD ...

Jeez .. you make it sound like suggesting someone is GAY is the worst thing in the world ...

It's 2006 folks, there are gay people on this site and there are straight people - haven't we gotten past this.
 
SeeTheWorld
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 am

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:51 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 70):
The mature thing to do would have been to laugh it off, or poke a little fun back.

Dude - why don't you take a little of your own advice?

Damn, I've got a lot of pent up anger, but you make me look comatose.
 
SeeTheWorld
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 am

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:13 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 70):
No, no, no. Delta gets subsidies to provide service to communities who would otherwise see no service, like APF, and ISO, not to communities that already have several airlines providing service to the city.

You are WRONG! The rules for small community grants are the same for every airline. Small community grants are not exclusive in markets where there is no service. Do your homework!

The fact that Delta, or any other legacy carrier, has never gotten a grant for service in the exact city-pair as a current carrier is because they had nothing new to offer, such as low fares.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 72):
Ill make sure to think about Airtran the next time I am flying to Europe, Asia, or the Carribean. Oh wait they don't go there oh well Ill just settle with Delta.

Honestly, that's such a ridiculous argument, and it's irrelevant to the discussion. We all know AirTran doesn't fly to Europe and doesn't have an alliance partner - if that's the best argument you, er Delta, can put up, then you're in sad shape.
 
richierich
Posts: 3617
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:00 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 70):
Quoting Richierich (Reply 53):
I'm not necessarily anti-Delta

Richie, stop it, your nose is growing!! You saying that is like a cancer survivor saying, "I'm not necessarily anti-cancer, but..."

Like I said, I'm not necessarily anti-Delta. Sure I've had some less than stellar experiences with your airline but I don't hate them. Don't pretend that you know me or my loyalties. I come on this website - like you do - so I clearly have an interest in all things airline-related, Delta and otherwise.

I think DL has got some serious problems that need to be fixed, obviously, but I hope they right the ship and come out a more friendly, efficient airline. Have I ever said anything to the opposite? Now, I'll be the first to tell you that I think Song was a mistake as a stand-alone unit, in regards to economics and strategy. I also think too much effort has previously been spent looking after First and elite biz members, so much so that the people at the back of the bus had become afterthoughts. Somebody had to be their advocates and the LCCs have generally been the ones to stand up. Otto, you may not like JetBlue and AirTran - my turn to not care - but if nothing else they are forcing DL mainline to be a better product than it was.



Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 70):
You act like I care. I don't. Oh, but I can tell you how you won't get there, and that is Airtran or Jetblue.

I know you don't care. But SXM is a cool place and I'm looking forward to it! Obviously I won't be going on AirTran or JetBlue but so what? If I was going to Ft. Lauderdale, I'd choose the airline that was cheapest and provided the best service value. Instead, because no LCCs fly to SXM, I guess I have to part with a ton of money. Sweet.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 70):
Using your logic, you just proved your ignorance of the airline industry and how it works. You think whether an airline has 1 flight or 10 flights to a city will determine if a bag is lost or not? Please explain this logic to me. How is it if a flight arrives from LGA, and is to be loaded on a flight to SFO, how that 1 flight will determine whether some FL bagrunner not paying attention and just glanced at the bag tag would not throw it on a flight to MCO as compared to SFO? And besides, once its realized that the bag was on the wrong flight, Delta could get it there a couple hours later. FL would have to wait a day, therefore possibly ruining someone's trip. Now, how does that logic of yours work again...?

I know how this industry works, buddy boy. I was merely playing on the fact that you don't understand "rates" of lost baggage versus simple figures.
A lot of LCCs fly point-to-point and not through a hub, thus reducing the chance of losing a bag during a connection. Although, strangely, my friend recently had a bag of his lost on a direct flight from TLH-JFK... I won't say which airline.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 70):
I'm not sure if Delta care's if your Jetblue self has been pissed off before, but to be honest with you, I don't.

I know you don't, Otto, and frankly neither did DL on the one time I called them out for it. What does this say about Delta?
But if I really hated them, I wouldn't have flown them again.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 70):
And then likes to twist the facts to fit his own agenda instead of seeing the truth?

Oh, you mean the facts I gave you about Song's financial situation sucking eggs? Man, how low can your credibility go in here? If you still stand by what you said in the other threads about Song making money and all that crap, then no wonder DL is in trouble. Everybody in Widgetville is living in cuckoo-land....

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 73):
Having flown Delta, I know Otto's not.

I agree. Like I said, if they were all like him, nobody would EVER want to fly them and yet, miraculously, they'd still be making money. Riiiiiiight.

My beef with DL is that they became an expensive, inefficient rich-boy organization that has been reluctant to change. Now that they are being forced to change, I'm sure only good things are in their future. People like Otto don't sway my opinion one way or the other.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 73):
Typical legacy mantra. I think it's great that Delta flies to so many places. It makes them a truly valuable carrier - that is, for people who need to fly to all those places. For the large number who don't, then it really doesn't matter.

Exactly! I don't get why I should fly a legacy carrier (at a greater cost to me) just to subsidize their service to Podunk. How is that even a valid argument? If Podunk can't make money on its own, then cut off the service and keep the prices real on the routes that passengers actually fly.

Now we are almost a week after DL's initial PR release and the subsequent AirTran retort. Luckily for Delta, things like this don't stick in the public's mind for very long, but I'm sure they learned a big lesson about reading all of the facts first!
None shall pass!!!!
 
BH
Posts: 519
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2001 7:27 am

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:40 am

WOW!!! Looks like the Big Dogs are letting fly loose in here.  box 
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:13 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 73):
Somehow, though, your opinions are "something" and mine are "nothing". I guess if I added some fuzzy math, it would suit you better.


I never said your opnions weren't worth anything. But your post had no opnions, so it would do a lot better than just blatantly attacking someone, as you seem very skilled at doing.




Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 73):
Your whole "numbers" diversion added a LOT to the topic.



Diversion? I clearly stated that my math was possibly wrong and for someone to correct me if it was. It was. Yet, you just can't get away from it, meaning that there is nothing you are capable of talking about.  scratchchin 




Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 73):
The thing is, you are a Delta PR person. You're an employee. Whether you care or not how you make them look is up to you.


If you think that whatever I say should give you reason to do something, then your self confidence is lower than it should be. There are professionals to help you with that. I bet you are the type of guy who stands in the aisle at the grocery store staring at labels trying to decide the best choice. "Well, they both say they are the best tomato soup, so which one do I choose? Decisions, decsions."  sarcastic 




Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 73):
There are plenty of perfectly respectful airline employees on this forum who make their airlines seem like a great place to work and a great ride in the sky.


If you read any of my posts on here about Delta, I may seem like the atypical Delta cheerleader. My company is a great place to be, but it has its ups and downs just like everywhere else. But it has more ups than downs. Ask any of the Delta frequent flyers on the board and they will all tell you how I have hooked them up in one way or another. If I haven't, I've certainly tried. Now, how many other airline employee's have done the same thing? I doubt any Airtran people have. Do a search with my name, you will see. Its not that hard. I can write down the instructions to do so if you need them, just let me know, ok?




Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 73):
Again, we get it. You could care less.


Thats right. I could care less if Rich flies Delta, or you for that matter. Why is that? Well, the people that fly Delta Air Lines like to have a good flight, with other happy and contented people on the flights. If either of you were to be on the airplanes, all you would do is bitch because you saw a peanut on the floor. So if your going to ruin everyone else's flight, then don't fly. Like I said, I'm not losing any sleep. Now, if you would truly like to fly Delta, I am an extremely valuable source of assistance if you preferred. But somehow, I don't think I have to worry about having you on any of my flights, thank God.




Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 73):
Close, Otto, very close. It's "WILL FLY FOR MONEY". "FREE MONEY" is what it's called when you take money from a lender and don't give it back.


Is that how Airtran operates? Because thats who I was referring to and it seems that you were the only one to miss it. So not only is Airtran assisting in possible fraud, but also theft? I only have one word for that, "Wow!!!"




Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 73):
FWIW, and I'm sure it's not much, you seem to have a pretty good handle on the subsidy issue. It'll be interesting to see what happens with Wichita. I've never really understood why they need subsidies.


I have a pretty good handle on it because I've seen it firsthand and knows how Airtran works it. And now that Wichita has to use a private fund set up, and the $2 million isn't there, I'm sure they are threatening the city to leave unless they get it. And why they need subsidies? Because the market probably isn't there for the 717, but thats all they have. They have to have someone footing half the bill for the flights, so why not have the city do it. If the market was there, everyone would be flying larger planes into the city. Come on, how many people in ICT do you think are REALLY wanting to fly Airtran that badly. They could care less about the bigger plane, other airlines have better FF programs and much better schedules, not to mention worldwide global reach. So why would they be freely flying Airtran again?




Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Reply 74):
It really shouldn't be so difficult


Thanks, probably an oversight or typo on my part. Because I guess you never make those, huh?

Quoting 73G (Reply 75):
Wait a minute, youre able to non-rev to SXM over a weekend during Spring Break?? No wonder your airline lost $6,720 a minute in January. Must be nice having all those empty seats. Stand-by travel is a bear for us this time of year.

Not surprising that you guys know so little about international travel. First of all, the big Spring Break time is at least a week away(and college students can't miss an entire week of school) and most people going down to the islands for Spring Break(since CUN is rebuilding) mostly go to NAS, GCM, and STT. Most college kids usually do not opt for SXM. Not that I would expect someone from a non-global airline to understand.  duck 

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 77):
Damn, I've got a lot of pent up anger

I'm sorry, why do you have anger? Its not me, is it? Because if your letting a simple discussion between 2 people get your anger pent up, then you need to speak to Dr. Phil on how to release that anger. As for me? Heck, I don't let it bother me. Why let others ruin my day? You should really take that advice.

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 78):
You are WRONG! The rules for small community grants are the same for every airline. Small community grants are not exclusive in markets where there is no service. Do your homework!

The fact that Delta, or any other legacy carrier, has never gotten a grant for service in the exact city-pair as a current carrier is because they had nothing new to offer, such as low fares.

Um, maybe you should do your homework. If someone else was already serving a city like APF, DL would probably not be flying there. US did fly there at one time and when they pulled out, leaving the airport hanging, the city began to court DL to continue service to ATL. Delta agreed. Keep in mind I never said the only reason any airline would get a grant is because there is no service. I said that was one of the additional reasons as to why Delta would be recieving subsidies for service, and that is that it is from airports who would otherwise have no service. I never said that was the reason. The APF grant has a lot more to it, which I will be happy to divulge to you if you like, since you can't do a little research on your own. Try to open your eyes next time!!!  footinmouth 

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 78):
Honestly, that's such a ridiculous argument, and it's irrelevant to the discussion. We all know AirTran doesn't fly to Europe and doesn't have an alliance partner - if that's the best argument you, er Delta, can put up, then you're in sad shape.

When DL reports on-time performance better than FL, and FL can only counter with OTHER statistics not related to on-time performance, thats not irrelevant???  scratchchin 

Quoting Richierich (Reply 79):
Don't pretend that you know me or my loyalties.

Never said I did. See, your nose is starting to grow again.

Quoting Richierich (Reply 79):
I also think too much effort has previously been spent looking after First and elite biz members, so much so that the people at the back of the bus had become afterthoughts.

And where is your proof of this? Can you provide it? No, because it ONLY sits with your "less than stellar" experiences. Sorry bout that. However, to play devil's advocate, lets say that the effort has been spent looking out for the First Class and Medallion members. If it has, there is a reason, they are the ones who pay our salary. First Class and Medallion members provide 70% of Delta's operating revenue, and when the "people in the back" as you call them, can provide that amount of revenue, flying 3 or 4 times a week and paying $7,500 for a full-fare BusinessElite ticket to Tokyo or Moscow, then they would get more catering to them. As it is that they fly once or twice a year and look for the cheapest fare, while expecting the hot roast beef to be sliced right at their seat, they are dreaming.

However, we have already proven that you can't prove your point and its all opinionated. Secondly, you have somehow lumped the "people in the back" into the crowd that provides the most revenue for airlines. So I will make the suggestion that on DL's next order of 777's, there should be 50 coach seats up front, and 270 BusinessElite seats in the back to cater to those "high revenue" passengers that didn't pay for that seat. sarcastic 

Quoting Richierich (Reply 79):
Obviously I won't be going on AirTran or JetBlue but so what? If I was going to Ft. Lauderdale, I'd choose the airline that was cheapest and provided the best service value. Instead, because no LCCs fly to SXM, I guess I have to part with a ton of money. Sweet.

Thats true, and by doing so, you are doing your part in contributing the the system of checks and balances we have in this country. See, its not so bad after all, huh? Sorry we can't all be greedy with our money, or the country would collapse.

Quoting Richierich (Reply 79):
A lot of LCCs fly point-to-point and not through a hub, thus reducing the chance of losing a bag during a connection.

You'd be surprised. A buddy of mine who works for WN can't seem to understand why the bag should never be removed from the plane during connections and ends up getting lost. I always kid him that its because the plane had to make 10 stops between OAK and PHX. You apparently DON'T get how the industry works. If you did, you would know that the reasoning for most bags lost on point to point flights has nothing to do with the airline, but because the bag is held up in TSA screening. You see, our friends over at Homeland Security could give a crap if the bag makes a flight or not. Usually while they have the bag and are twiddling their thumbs, the rest of us have an airline to operate. Whether the bag makes the flight or not matters nothing to them. See, you just learned something. After a few more lessons, you might know how this industry works after all.

Quoting Richierich (Reply 79):
What does this say about Delta?

They know you were bitching about a $79 Priceline fare and probably trying to get something for free. Believe it or not, if you paid your share or travel enough(we can track that, you know) or if your complaint was legit, it would have been rectified. You probably called and complained that you didn't get an exit row and you demanded it when you bought the ticket, and therefore you deserved nothing, since exit rows aren't given to general customers until day or checkin.

Quoting Richierich (Reply 79):
Oh, you mean the facts I gave you about Song's financial situation sucking eggs? Man, how low can your credibility go in here? If you still stand by what you said in the other threads about Song making money and all that crap, then no wonder DL is in trouble.

And remember how you were wrong 3 times previously because you kept predicting Song's demise, when others who know the information told you otherwise. See, this is proof that you spin the numbers for your own good. If Song's finances sucked eggs, then why are they spreading the ENTIRE Song product to mainline. First it will be with the 757's, and then it will move to the 767 and 738 fleet, and hopefully into the MD-88's. The entire Song product is changing its name to Delta. So, if Song sucked so bad, why is Delta expanding it again, but under the Delta brand? It wouldn't, it would just let it slip without even mentioning they were moving it back into mainline, they would just let it slip quietly away. But you refuse to accept the fact that you were wrong and just because the Song name is going away, you hail victory. In any case, this IS taking the subject off topic and I think most states have laws against molesting dead animals, and this is one dead horse that needs no extra beating.

Quoting Richierich (Reply 79):
People like Otto don't sway my opinion one way or the other.

See, so why is everyone worried about me being Delta's PR? You might want to give PlanesandTrains a lesson in that department.

Quoting Richierich (Reply 79):
My beef with DL is that they became an expensive, inefficient rich-boy organization

I'm sorry that Delta can't cater to all the poor people out there like Richie. I guess the "rich" part in your name is trying to be optimistic? Like I said, when the poor people like Richie start providing Delta with 70% of Delta's revenue, then they will see change. But since Richie admits that he doesn't fly Delta, why should Delta attempt to appease him? No money, no service. In the mean-time, the rich-boy's that are flying Delta keep asking about when the new BusinessElite seats will be rolled out. They are the ones who bring in Delta's revenue and they will be the ones who are catered to more.

Quoting Richierich (Reply 79):
If Podunk can't make money on its own, then cut off the service and keep the prices real on the routes that passengers actually fly.

I couldn't agree more. Yet, BMI and MLI keep doing what they can to keep Airtran in there, even if it involves subsidies. So the legacies will just have to go in there and compete. So, in effect, your barking up the wrong tree. Go tell that to Airtran.

Quoting Richierich (Reply 79):
Luckily for Delta, things like this don't stick in the public's mind for very long, but I'm sure they learned a big lesson about reading all of the facts first!

Nope. See, Delta doesn't need to come back with some sort of childish retort. Delta can do the mature, adult thing and turn the other cheek, instead of keeping an adolescent flame-war flying back and forth. But then again, that all the drama-lovers on a.net want to see, is drama, drama, drama. Its giving me flashbacks of the girls in 8th grade. The sad thing is these are grown men who want to see this.  no 



OttoPylit
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
richierich
Posts: 3617
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:50 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 81):
Thats right. I could care less if Rich flies Delta, or you for that matter. Why is that? Well, the people that fly Delta Air Lines like to have a good flight, with other happy and contented people on the flights. If either of you were to be on the airplanes, all you would do is bitch because you saw a peanut on the floor. So if your going to ruin everyone else's flight, then don't fly.

Thanks for making me out to sound like a cry-baby. Did you ever think that maybe some concerns are legit? As it turns out, I sent a letter to Delta merely pointing out something I thought they would like to know about. Based on the fact I never heard back, turns out I was wrong. I was not asking for anything nor expecting anything other than, perhaps, some acknowledgement or perhaps signs of life that the Delta-beast actually cares about its passengers. I guess I know the answer to that!

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 81):
Never said I did. See, your nose is starting to grow again.

It was implied. You make a lot of implications in your statements.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 81):
You apparently DON'T get how the industry works. If you did, you would know that the reasoning for most bags lost on point to point flights has nothing to do with the airline, but because the bag is held up in TSA screening

I didn't realize that I needed to follow a bag around the airport to "know how the industry works". I don't doubt the TSA is to blame in some cases but it seems like a convenient crutch to me considering every airline uses the TSA. Did you know that, Otto?  Smile

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 81):
They know you were bitching about a $79 Priceline fare and probably trying to get something for free. Believe it or not, if you paid your share or travel enough(we can track that, you know) or if your complaint was legit, it would have been rectified. You probably called and complained that you didn't get an exit row and you demanded it when you bought the ticket, and therefore you deserved nothing, since exit rows aren't given to general customers until day or checkin.

The fact that I paid 79 hypothetical dollars or 479 dollars should, for all practical purposes, not matter at all. There is definitely something about treating all customers the same - people actually like it! What a concept! For the record, I travelled DL on biz and only saw the bills briefly. Short notice, no Sat. stay, can you say "OUCH!" The word "rip-off" used to come to my mind frequently. Don't feel bad, it was the same on the other legacies I had to use.
And, by the way, if you knew me at all, you'd know I don't complain about trivial things like exit rows and other such idiotic ideas, certainly not enough to put pen to paper about.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 81):
I'm sorry that Delta can't cater to all the poor people out there like Richie. I guess the "rich" part in your name is trying to be optimistic? Like I said, when the poor people like Richie start providing Delta with 70% of Delta's revenue, then they will see change.

Well, seeing that you asked, I'm not made of money. But I do OK for myself, thank you very much. However I don't like that ripped off feeling very much. Do you, snob boy?

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 81):
I couldn't agree more. Yet, BMI and MLI keep doing what they can to keep Airtran in there, even if it involves subsidies.

I admit that I know very little about the subsidy thing. It does seem a little unfair but this is a decision made by the local airports and cities. Taxpayers can hold them accountable if they don't like it. Hell, there must be a reason MLI chose AirTran over Delta... maybe they don't like that ripped off feeling either.

But this has nothing to do with what I wrote before. What I was talking about was the comment about DL flying everywhere - so obviously we must fly them because they serve Podunk and Airline B doesn't! (sarcasm) Who cares?

Quoting BH (Reply 80):
Looks like the Big Dogs are letting fly loose in here.

It happens from time to time. Congrats to Otto for penning the longest thread ever on airliners.net with Post 81!
None shall pass!!!!
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:20 pm

Otto, you're a riot. LOL!

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
AviationAddict
Posts: 769
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:29 pm

I think it's pretty funny. DL tossed up a fat one and FL made them pay, good for them. I'm not a big fan of FL, but I'm also not a fan of the legacies thinking they are so much better than the LCCs (but who's bankrupt again)?
 
SeeTheWorld
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 am

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:48 pm

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 81):
I'm sorry, why do you have anger? Its not me, is it? Because if your letting a simple discussion between 2 people get your anger pent up, then you need to speak to Dr. Phil on how to release that anger. As for me? Heck, I don't let it bother me. Why let others ruin my day? You should really take that advice.

Dude - it was a joke; I was being self-effacing and trying to add a little levity. However, you sure seem like one of the most wound up persons on this site.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 81):
The APF grant has a lot more to it, which I will be happy to divulge to you if you like, since you can't do a little research on your own. Try to open your eyes next time!!

Re-read my comment on this issue and stop putting words into my mouth like you do everyone else. I said that:

"The rules for small community grants are the same for every airline. Small community grants are not exclusive in markets where there is no service. Do your homework! The fact that Delta, or any other legacy carrier, has never gotten a grant for service in the exact city-pair as a current carrier is because they had nothing new to offer, such as low fares."

What part of that comment is not correct? Or, was it the "do your homework" comment that caused you to rant and rave and infer I needed to do my homework? (These are both rhetorical questions.)

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 81):
When DL reports on-time performance better than FL, and FL can only counter with OTHER statistics not related to on-time performance, thats not irrelevant???

Ok, this is the BEST COMMENT you have ever made because it is now clear to me why having a sensible, mature, and objective discussion with you about facts is impossible. You CANNOT be serious? On-time performance, like denied boardings and lost baggage are all related to the flight experience.

The fact that you think AirTran's response was irrelevant may be EXACTLY the REASON a Delta passenger was 93% more likely than an AirTran passenger to write the DOT and complain about their Delta experience.

[Edited 2006-03-07 04:49:35]
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

RE: Air Tran (and Delta) Cheap Shots

Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 am

Quoting Richierich (Reply 81):
Based on the fact I never heard back, turns out I was wrong. I was not asking for anything nor expecting anything other than, perhaps, some acknowledgement or perhaps signs of life that the Delta-beast actually cares about its passengers. I guess I know the answer to that!

And could it have been that they actually took your advice and did it. Otherwise, why reply just to say, "OK, consider it done." Thats a heck of way to spend 39 cent if you ask me. Just for my own humor, could you please explain what it is that you had a problem with and suggested? I would love to hear it.

Quoting Richierich (Reply 81):
I don't doubt the TSA is to blame in some cases but it seems like a convenient crutch to me considering every airline uses the TSA. Did you know that, Otto?

I do know that. I also know TSA screeners who will admit that whether the bag makes it through screening in time or not is of no concern to them. Can't really say I blame them, since its not their money. And since it is also the government, its not like they can lose a contract for service or anything. They just twist the airlines arm and the airline is supposed to take it. I would say that for any bag lost on a non-stop flight, probably 7 out of 10 times, it is TSA screening that held up the bag to search through it and do the explosives check. Every now and then you will get a ramp rat who is either behind the curve for that day or just off the ball and the bag missed the flight completely. Trust me, for every DL lost baggage file that is created and closed, a record is kept as to why and how it was determined the bag was lost. For most P2P flights, TSA is at fault.

Quoting Richierich (Reply 81):
The fact that I paid 79 hypothetical dollars or 479 dollars should, for all practical purposes, not matter at all.

Of course it is. The lower fare you paid lowers your expectations. Don't expect first class service on your $99 coast-coast ticket. Thats why people don't complain about Southwest as much. The low fare lowers their expectations and they don't expect anything other than to get to Point B alive.

Quoting Richierich (Reply 81):
And, by the way, if you knew me at all, you'd know I don't complain about trivial things like exit rows and other such idiotic ideas, certainly not enough to put pen to paper about.

Well, from any past conversations we've had, I would hope I know you well enough to make an educated guess. Like I said, humor me and tell me what it was.


As far as the Saturday night stay thing goes, I've always agreed that was a bad ticketing move. It really shouldn't matter what time you go and return, so I'm glad we got rid of that at Delta.

Quoting Richierich (Reply 81):
However I don't like that ripped off feeling very much. Do you, snob boy?

But you said it wasn't your money, it was on biz, therefore it probably wasn't YOUR money, but your employer's cash, unless your self employed. And if it was personal business, you sometimes have to ask yourself, is the berry juice worth the squeeze?

Quoting Richierich (Reply 81):
Taxpayers can hold them accountable if they don't like it.

Thats the thing. In ICT, the taxpayers DIDN'T EVEN know the money was being used until Delta brought it to light. And even then, ICT is telling them, "Don't worry, we're doing this for you. Mind your own business."

Quoting Richierich (Reply 81):
What I was talking about was the comment about DL flying everywhere - so obviously we must fly them because they serve Podunk and Airline B doesn't! (sarcasm) Who cares?

Well, how the hell else are you gonna get to Podunk? Airtran won't fly there unless there is free cash involved. Southwest won't fly there unless there is somewhat of a large market there. Unless all of your relatives live in places like ATL, MIA, TPA, MCO, LGA, LAX, SAN, PHX, etc, as compared to places like LNK, SPS, TXK, YYJ, ASE, etc., then you will need to get to those places at some point. And guess who is only available to get you there?  scratchchin 

Quoting Richierich (Reply 81):

It happens from time to time. Congrats to Otto for penning the longest thread ever on airliners.net with Post 81!

 rotfl  Yea, it was a long one. Not the longest that I have ever seen on a.net, but it was approaching book-length. What can I say, after a 3 day weekend, I had a lot of people to respond to. Its a bitch being as popular as me. LOL

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 84):
However, you sure seem like one of the most wound up persons on this site.

Wound up? Sheesh, you don't know me at all. I use this site to wind DOWN after a long day playing chess with a tarmac full of airplanes and only so many gates to assign.

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 84):
Small community grants are not exclusive in markets where there is no service.

And I advised you that whether there is service or not does not matter, as you were implying. It can be more of a persuasive reason to try to land the airline's service, but is never much of a factor.

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 84):
You CANNOT be serious? On-time performance, like denied boardings and lost baggage are all related to the flight experience.

Yes, but did Delta say in their press release, "Delta beats Airtran in on time performance, but did fall short in lost baggage or complaints?" No, Delta ONLY referred to on-time performance. So Airtran counters with other statistics that DL did not even bring to the discussion. And in an effort to make their on-time numbers sound better, they even included their own little bit in reference to the "all common" airports, something that wasn't even included in the DOT report. Doesn't that seem odd? It certainly does to me. They were able to use the numbers to shorten their lack of on-time performance to be closer in-line to Delta's higher on-time numbers.

Wierd.



OttoPylit
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.

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