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vs773er
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'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:19 pm

Hi,
Saw this video on fl350 and wondered if it's just dc9s/md8x's that are allowed to do it? If so I presume it's to do with the reverse thrust which would smash the terminal windows from larger ac!? Also, is this practice just allowed at KDTW?

http://www.flightlevel350.com/viewer.php?id=5600

Cheers
Dan

[Edited 2006-03-04 12:22:17]
Communicating. Keeping up foreign relations...
 
EMBQA
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:23 pm

Any tail mounted engined aircraft can do it..... Boeing 727 comes to mind.

No, I've done powerbacks all over the US with many different airlines.

[Edited 2006-03-04 12:26:32]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:24 pm

Quoting VS773ER (Thread starter):
Saw this vid on fl350 and wondered if it's jusy dc9s/md8's that are allowed to do it? If so I pressume it's to do with the reverse thrust which would smash the terminal windows from larger ac!?

You underestimate the terminal windows. Besides in reverse thrust doesn't really go straight forward. It's because underwing engines on low wing aircraft have too high a risk of ingesting junk.

The C-17 also powerbacks btw.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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jorge1812
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:05 pm

Have seen it on ATR-42/72 at TFN too.

Georg
 
srbmod
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:08 pm

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 1):
Any tail mounted engined aircraft can do it..... Boeing 727 comes to mind.

Any jetliner could do it, it is more common with a/c that have tail mounted engines due to the risk of FOD ingestion. Eastern Airlines even used to powerback 757s at one point. I'm not sure if they ever tried to powerback a TriStar. Even Frontier Airlines back when they operated 732s had powerback proceedures in their ramp manuals.

Powerbacks are allowed at many airports, it's just that the practice is beginning to die down due to costs (fuel, wear and tear on engines). AirTran used to do them @ ATL, but in the last few years went and bought more pushback units and now will only do a powerback @ ATL if they absolutely have no choice.
 
DFW13L
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:24 pm

In the fall of 1997, I was aboard a USAir 737-200 at DFW bound for PIT and we powered back from what is now gate B20 at DFW. I was astounded! Being from DFW, I had always been used to AA powering back with MD80s and 727s, but had never even heard of a 737 doing it.

Just FYI, I work for American Eagle, and we do not powerback, though we do power out. Powering out means taxing away from the gate using forward throttle, without being pushed back. Powering back means using reverse thrust to get away from a gate.
See, I knew American Eagle was first class all along!
 
TheSorcerer
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:11 pm

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 1):
Any tail mounted engined aircraft can do i

All tail mounted A/C with R/T, the ERJ 135/145 can't powerback. Eastern Airways powers back some of their Jetsream 31 in ABZ.
Dominic
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sunking737
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:13 pm

We used to power back all our planes at Republic mk 1, the 757 was the only one we did not.

But we did try one time, but the senior Capt. was just too chicken, as we had the plane for only a week.

The CV-580 was the plane that was the most fun because we had a very large ramp area to use, it was so large that we could park 5 or 6 planes. usually only one plane had to be pushed back by MX, the first plane in as it was too close to the terminal and had to worry about FOD.
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"
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jhooper
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:22 pm

Even the C-5 Galaxy is capable of it, although it certainly isn't a normal procedure.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
BestWestern
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:25 pm

The ATP can do it also.

Do delta do powerbacks on their 738 shuttle fleet at BOS?
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srbmod
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:34 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 9):
Do delta do powerbacks on their 738 shuttle fleet at BOS?

Powerbacks are not S.O.P. at Delta period. Some of the DL Connection carriers do power outs, but that's not the same thing.
 
9KBOS
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:39 pm

The NW DC-9 I was on in DTW did a powerback....it was great, we backed right out and started forward, we hardly stopped. It was obviously a little noise but it was faster than using a tug. (burns more fuel?)

9kbos
 
jsposaune
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:52 pm

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 6):
the ERJ 135/145 can't powerback.

Actually, it can. We did it on a couple E-145's last winter, when our push-back tugs couldn't get traction due to ice on the ramp. It was quite a sight!

We'll also powerback SF-340's once in a while...good times!
There are no stupid questions....only stupid people!!!
 
J41
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:41 am

The E-135/145's can only do it if they have reverse thrust, it is an option on the engines, some have it some don't.

J41
 
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longhauler
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:58 am

Canadi>n did powerbacks with B737-200s as well. It was quite common when operating with a gravel kit equipped aircraft, as the towbar was different, and some stations did not have the proper towbar. It was noisy ... but effective.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
jsposaune
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:05 am

Quoting J41 (Reply 13):
it is an option on the engines, some have it some don't.

Ah...didn't realize that. Thanks.
There are no stupid questions....only stupid people!!!
 
J41
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:14 am

You can see here:

This one has reverse thrust
https://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...hoto_nr=1&prev_id=&next_id=0749510

This one doesn't:
https://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...23&prev_id=1009616&next_id=1009505

Sorry I'm not sure how to make the link short.
 
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JBo
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:18 am

Quoting J41 (Reply 16):
Sorry I'm not sure how to make the link short.

Copy and paste the link that appears above the photo:

https://www.airliners.net/open.file/1003128/M/

https://www.airliners.net/open.file/1009515/M/
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
EMBQA
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:43 am

Quoting J41 (Reply 13):
The E-135/145's can only do it if they have reverse thrust, it is an option on the engines, some have it some don't

I think its better to say most do, a few do not. I think of the 1000 worldwide ERJ's, 75% or more have reverse thrust.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
optionscle
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:01 am

I've been in an AirTran 717 that did it. I was pretty surprised.
 
captaink
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:43 am

I have seen B727s, MD80's and Dash8's powerback when i working at GND....
Look Up
 
TheSorcerer
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:52 am

Quoting Jsposaune (Reply 12):



Quoting J41 (Reply 13):

Ah very interesting, i was getting my info from a BD pilot, i take it their fleet of ERJs doesn't have R/T. thanks for the info.
Dominic
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byronsterk
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:13 am

ATR-42 from Aer Arann did it in Sligo (EISG, Ireland) I remember...
Helicopters can't fly, there just so ugly the earth repells them...
 
dc863
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:15 am

Eastern used to do it with their -9s all the time at ATL.
 
Hodges
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:26 am

On a DC9 flight this past summer from DTW to MSP we did a powerback. Once we pushed ourselves back we went right back in due to troubles with the engine. Despite the 30 minute wait, i still liked the powerback and eventual flight on a DC9.

I've heard pilots don't like to do powerbacks because it is a pretty dangerous maneuver for the ground crew, surrounding equipment, and the plane. It takes a lot of coordination between the ramp workers and pilots.

Erik
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Starlionblue
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:56 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 1):
Any tail mounted engined aircraft can do i

You actually need reversers, which some tail engine planes don't have. Some operators of ERJs chose not to mount reversers for example.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
9252fly
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:12 am

I have to say that watching a Dash 8-300 turboprop reverse(powerback)is a rather strange sight.
 
srbmod
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:41 am

Quoting Hodges (Reply 24):
It takes a lot of coordination between the ramp workers and pilots.

It really does. In the 11 months I worked @ FL, I did at least a few hundred powerbacks and got quite proficient at it. Several of us on the gate I was working at one point actually turned it into a bit of a contest. We'd see who'd get it the closest to the line on the ramp, and I'd usually win. 7 out of 10 times, I have them right on the line after they made the turn after clearing the gate area.
 
nwab787techops
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:59 am

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 6):
the ERJ 135/145 can't powerback

Oh yea they can! Did it ever day almost working MX. You can make a quick turn if you open one TR and put power on eng two, weeeeee!!!!!!
 Wow!  Big grin
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:07 am

Quoting Nwab787techops (Reply 28):
Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 6):
the ERJ 135/145 can't powerback

Oh yea they can! Did it ever day almost working MX. You can make a quick turn if you open one TR and put power on eng two, weeeeee!!!!!!

Some can. But there are ERJs without reversers. All depending on the operator.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
levg79
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:02 pm

Quoting Hodges (Reply 24):
On a DC9 flight this past summer from DTW to MSP we did a powerback

I wonder which airline was it  wink 

Back to the topic, is it true that some airports do not allow powerbacks?

I used to know a former pilot from the Soviet Union and I remember him telling a story that one time Aeroflot crew pulled into the wrong gate at JFK. They were then told that a tug will come to take them to the proper gate but instead pilots did a powerback and taxied to the proper gate themselves. After that, every pilot in the Soviet Union was told that when they fly to the US, powerbacks are not allowed.

I asked him if it was common in the former Soviet Union to do a powerback and he told me that they did it sometimes, but not usually. As an example, he told me that when he was a first officer on the Yak-40 and they taxied to the wrong taxiway, his captain did a powerback to get back. That was not usual because the Yak-40 had one one engine (No. 2) equipped with the trust reverser. He said the pilots in the other aircraft who were landing at that time, looked at them in awe. It must have been a strange sight, seeing Yak-40 driving backwards on the taxiway, away from terminal building.

Leo.
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EMBQA
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:23 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 29):
Some can. But there are ERJs without reversers.

Again, Most can... The non-TR aircraft are the far minority of the worldwide ERJ fleet. Most are in Europe, but a few originally operated by European operators have made there way to the US.

[Edited 2006-03-05 04:49:09]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
Cubsrule
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:47 pm

Quoting VS773ER (Thread starter):
Also, is this practice just allowed at KDTW?

It's done a decent amount at MSP, particularly from low C and D gates (in my experience). I've also done it a couple of times at MEM, always when leaving from gates between B30 and B40 (those may be the only mainline gates where there is room).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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Spacepope
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:57 pm

Quoting J41 (Reply 16):
You can see here:

This one has reverse thrust
https://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...hoto_nr=1&prev_id=&next_id=0749510

This one doesn't:
https://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...23&prev_id=1009616&next_id=1009505

Sorry I'm not sure how to make the link short.


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tangoecho
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:13 pm

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 6):

The only ERJ 135/145 with reversers that fly into ABZ is the Air France (regional).

Stu...   

[Edited 2006-03-06 12:15:40]
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goingboeing
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RE: 'Powerbacks' DC9s Only?

Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:36 am

Quoting DFW13L (Reply 5):
had always been used to AA powering back with MD80s and 727s, but had never even heard of a 737 doing it.

I was on a Southwest 737-300 out of OAK that did it.

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