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SeeTheWorld
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New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:09 am

44 new departures to 17 cities .... WOW! This is going to cost a pretty penny.

Press release shortly.

[Edited 2006-03-07 17:10:57]
 
kkfla737
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:12 am

Is this to feed int'l flights or to compete with Jet Blue or just another of Delta's ever changing strategies for utilizing aircraft?
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:13 am

Holy Crap!

Need info though! Where? When?

Didn't they just cut a bunch of cities from JFK domestically? Does this come at the expense of CVG?


PJ
 
toltommy
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:14 am

According to today's Aviation Daily, it's to add feed for International flying, and to boost unit revenue. I'll be interested to see wht the new flying is.
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SeeTheWorld
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:19 am

They are saying it's primarily to feed the international flights and not necessarily to serve the local market. That's an expensive strategy if in fact that's what they are doing. Clearly, it's that and a pre-emptive strike again JetBlue, but it's extremely risky because it's going to cost them a whole lot of money to spool this up.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:19 am

Haven't they tried this in the past several times though? Hopefully they'll stick to it this time.
 
quickmover
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:22 am

I'm not sure that this move would cost more than what they are already doing. They will be pulling flights from somewhere. I can't see this as entirely new service. Don't they already have excess facilities at JFK?
 
toltommy
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:24 am

The person at DL who is in charge of "Network and Revenue Management" came to DL from CO, where he basically did the same thing at EWR. They may have tried it in the past, but now they have someone who knows what they are doing.

This kind of move could alter B6's plans for the 190.
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masseybrown
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:28 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 5):
Haven't they tried this in the past several times though? Hopefully they'll stick to it this time.

This is at least the third time and is another indication that DAL hasn't yet found a consistent path to profits.

They just got through pulling down JFK, delaying construction, etc. Now they want to build it up again. I guess they'll use the profits from Song to do it.

OTOH, building up SLC may be a good thing; presumably they got positive results from their last growth increment there.
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:30 am

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 6):
I'm not sure that this move would cost more than what they are already doing. They will be pulling flights from somewhere. I can't see this as entirely new service. Don't they already have excess facilities at JFK?

Good point. The majority of the flights are express from the NE and Mid-Atlantic (Dash 8s from Richmond, etc.) so it will be less expensive, but adding flights primarily to connect to an international gateway can often be the "tail wagging the dog," in other words, the domestic connecting flights' profitability is going to be a struggle.

[Edited 2006-03-07 17:31:47]
 
toltommy
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:31 am

Press release out....

http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/060307/95337.html

"With this expansion, Delta will offer JFK customers 139 peak day flights to 67 worldwide destinations by September -- more than any other airline in the market. New and expanded destinations include: Albany, Buffalo, Rochester and Syracuse, N.Y.; Cleveland, Ohio; Detroit, Mich.; Norfolk and Richmond, Va.; Philadelphia, Pa.; Baltimore, Md.; Hartford, Conn.; Providence, R.I.; Washington, D.C (Reagan and Dulles); San Diego, Calif.; Las Vegas, Nev.; and Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

In Albany, Hartford, Philadelphia and Providence, Delta will be the only airline to offer daily nonstop flights to JFK."

[Edited 2006-03-07 17:33:32]
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RL757PVD
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:33 am

JFK can be a good thing for DL, but they really need to fix some terminal issues, perhaps with song gone, they can modify more gates to accomodate RJs, either the area between Term 2 and 3, or perhaps the west side of Term 2. They whole thing needs a M_A_J_O_R overhaul but a short term fix would really do wonders fromthe current situation.
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jfklganyc
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:34 am

" NE and Mid-Atlantic (Dash 8s from Richmond, etc.) "

Is this what DL is adding? Because DL doesn't have Dash 8 service from JFK now. Only RJs.

Also, they don't serve RIC now either.

PJ
 
TokyoNarita
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:35 am

What? Delta is going to use Dash-8s from Freedom Air. This is new...

TokyoNarita.

[Edited 2006-03-07 17:40:56]
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:38 am

Ten of the new cities are turbo-prop only.
 
PVD757
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:39 am

YES - PVD MADE THE CUT - JUST AWESOME!
 
toltommy
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:40 am

According to the press release, the Dash will be flying from JFK to the following cities:

ORF, IAD, PHL, SYR, ALB, BDL, PVD, RIC, BWI, DCA

Where did Mesa pull these Dashes from?
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PVD757
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:53 am

Can't seem to find the schedules anywhere yet though...
 
B752OS
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:58 am

Looking at Delta's website at al the new cities they are planning on sering is astonishing. I look at all the new international flights out of ATL to VCE, TLV, NCE, DUS, CPH, BCN and ATH and have to wonder what percentage of passengers on those flights will be O&D and what kind of a backlash this is going to have on the one world partners, such as KL and AF, that would normally get these passengers out of ATL and send them through connecting at their hubs?

There are not that many markets in the US that can support daily flights to all these markets, in addition to the ones DL already serves out ATL, the only one I think could do it would be NYC, with that being said, I don't think DL is going to do that great on these routes.

[Edited 2006-03-07 18:02:55]
 
ATWZW170
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:58 am

Does Mesa fly any Dash-8's for US Airways anymore? Maybe they are coming from the UA side as the ski season is dropping off. Doesn't make a lot of sense though. They will have to add capacity back come Dec. I thought Freedom Air was only going to fly CRJ planes.....these poor boys.
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DCA-ROCguy
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:04 am

Wow...four daily 50-seat RJ's each from ROC, BUF, ALB, SYR. There was just a thread recently where we discussed American Eagle's 2001 withdrawal from Upstate routes to JFK. I had wondered if JetBlue wasn't the reason in BUF/ROC/SYR because the AE flights were intended to feed AA international service. A more knowledgeable source about AA, Commavia, argued that JetBlue definitely had impact despite the int'l connection factor; I would go with his judgment.

From at least the early '90s until 1999 there had been DL Connection Business Express service from these cities to JFK to feed DL; American Eagle bought Business Express that year. DL serves a bigger array of European destinations from JFK than AA, if I remember correctly. DL must think they can do better than AA did. If that's the case, these flights would also be aimed at Continental, since they of course also feed people from Upstate into a big transatlantic operation at their NYC-area hub at EWR.

Still, 200 seats seems like a lot; I don't think BEX or Eagle ever flew more than four or five 30-something seat Saabs, at least at ROC. Will be interesting to watch.

Jim
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ord
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:05 am

For those wondering about the updated BizElite, this was in the press release:

"On international flights, Delta this summer will begin refreshing its BusinessElite(r) product with enhanced seats, including a new in-seat digital entertainment system. Economy enhancements will include all-leather seating, new carpeting, lighting and sidewalls."
 
Jaws707
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:07 am

With this strategy of building up JFK, I wonder if routes like ORD-LGA will still make sense, or if it'll make more sense to change this route to ORD-JFK.
 
PVD757
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:16 am

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 20):
Wow...four daily 50-seat RJ's each from ROC, BUF, ALB, SYR.

just to clarify, ALB & SYR will see the DH8's, while BUF/ROC get the RJs...
 
jrlander
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:21 am

I'm not sure what the contract with Freedom says- but I would guess that it is a pay-per-departure, meaning that it will not cost Delta much up front to ramp up at least the Dash-8 part of this expansion.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:21 am

I think Delta may actually do well with these new routings if they time them correctly, which at least for the Albany flights seem to feed into the Euro banks at JFK.

Remember, COex operates all/most of these routes out of EWR and load factors are quite good...

time will tell.
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wjcandee
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:29 am

Press Release should read:

"Delta Adds A Bunch Of Prop Planes to JFK Schedule; Finally Paints The Dated WorldPort; Now Only If They'd Fix The Roof"

$10MM will barely paint and carpet the most important areas of the place, so it's no big whoop. Anybody else would have done this a long time ago as part of ongoing maintenance/marketing.

Adding a bunch of props is a risky proposition. DL's old strategy was to get rid of the props because people didn't like them. Then, when it was clear that they couldn't charge enough to make them viable connectors, they started using them to replace mainline aircraft on long routes on which customers hated them. The economics of the aircraft themselves were atrocious, of course, but when the pilots command only a teensy fraction of the salary of mainline pilots, the aircraft become more financially viable. But still not enough, so...back to the props that people hate. This shift in general in the industry will lead invariably to more fatalities, which will scare more people, which will start that vicious cycle all over again. (Disagree? When was the last time a CRJ or Jungle Jet went down in revenue flight in the US? In contrast, when was the last fatality of a Part 121 prop in revenue service? USAir in Charlotte, for example. There's one every coupla years at the minimum, and they scare people, which diverts people to cars, which kills more of them. Sorry to see this happening.
 
Trvlr
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:32 am

So they're going to add JFK-SAN for what, the third time in 4 years? I wonder how long it is before they drop it again.

Aaron G.
 
hawk44
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:38 am

Quoting ORD (Reply 21):
Economy enhancements will include all-leather seating, new carpeting, lighting and sidewalls."

No PTV's for Y class?

Hawk44
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FlyPNS1
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:46 am

Quoting Trvlr (Reply 27):
So they're going to add JFK-SAN for what, the third time in 4 years? I wonder how long it is before they drop it again.

DL has been very schizophrenic on this route....as well as many other routes from JFK.

It'll be interesting to see how the prop operation goes. The props really are the right plane for these short-haul flights. However, consumers have some misgivings about props, plus Mesa's poor operational performance may scare customers away.

The million dollar question is how long will this build-up last? Is DL really committed to building up JFK or will they chop half these routes in the next year or two?
 
deltagator
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:50 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 10):
In Albany, Hartford, Philadelphia and Providence, Delta will be the only airline to offer daily nonstop flights to JFK."

Lazy Americans! Drive it or take the train. Seeing that the will be using turboprops on some of these new routes will they have the capacity to handle the luggage that comes with feeding an international flight?

Quoting ORD (Reply 21):
Delta this summer will begin refreshing its BusinessElite(r) product with enhanced seats, including a new in-seat digital entertainment system.

Good to hear but I wish they would release some details on what it will actually look like.

Quoting ORD (Reply 21):
Economy enhancements will include all-leather seating, new carpeting, lighting and sidewalls."

Oh boy! Leather seats for me to stick to when it gets hot on the plane. Carpeting...BFD, Lighting...turn them off for the flight and let me sleep. Ooohh...new sidewalls! Wow! That really freakin' great. Unless it has a built-in pillow for me to rest my head against I don't see any way that differentiates the product for the other carriers.

Quoting Hawk44 (Reply 28):
No PTV's for Y class?

Only took a couple of posts to get this one. While they don't mention it I think it would be hard not to include them on the international birds if they are planning to roll out the Song style PTVs on the domestic 757s and possibly the 767s.
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swank300
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:00 am

DL should be careful about changing operations from lga. As a current New Yorker, I will tell you that if I flew ord- NYC, I would want to be flying into LGA because JFK is farther and the roads to JFK can be alot more congested, so from the standpoint of a person who doesn't have alot of time, LGA makes more sense. Just my two cents....
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:22 am

Quoting Swank300 (Reply 31):
LGA makes more sense. Just my two cents

Funny a lot of people said that when B6 started the Shuttle from JFK-BOS!

Quoting Swank300 (Reply 31):
As a current New Yorker, I will tell you that if I flew ord- NYC, I would want to be flying into LGA because JFK is farther and the roads to JFK can be alot more congested

Well if you have a decent expense account you can now fly on American Airlines new helicopter service....  Smile

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2006-02-07-jfk-helicopter_x.htm
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jfklganyc
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:26 am

"DL should be careful about changing operations from lga. As a current New Yorker, I will tell you that if I flew ord- NYC, I would want to be flying into LGA because JFK is farther and the roads to JFK can be alot more congested, so from the standpoint of a person who doesn't have alot of time, LGA makes more sense. Just my two cents...."

I'm LGA based. LGA is an over-crowded, delay-prone airport. I flew 12 flights last week; one flight was on time.

LGA and EWR are getting worse every month. Holding on clear days, EDCTs everyday, all the time.

1. JFK is the only airport that can handle growth.

2. JFK is fast becoming the preferred airport for NY. Besides the rail link, it is the only airport that you can get into without a significant delay.


Of course, the downside is that delays to JFK will only get worse as growth occurs.

But the days of LGA being the 'preferred airport' are going away very quickly as many people are realizing that 20 minutes in Van Wyck traffic is better than 2 hrs on the runway in CLE.

PJ
 
toltommy
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:38 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 30):
Lazy Americans! Drive it or take the train.

Why? Can't easily get to JFK on the train, especially from CT or RI. Driving isn't cost effective. Car service or parking would be much more costly. And the last thing the city needs is more out of towners trying to find JFK. But I can see your point about int'l luggage and weight restrictions. There's gonna be bumping on hot humid days, and DL will have to pay for the car service to JFK.
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SeeTheWorld
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:04 am

One of the benefits touted by Delta for flying the DASH-8 vs. the CRJ is that there is more room for the international passenger's luggage. That's the first time I've ever heard that as a good reason to fly the incredibly slow, boxy DASH-8. But, hey, it does have more luggage space.
 
PVD757
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:21 am

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 35):
One of the benefits touted by Delta for flying the DASH-8 vs. the CRJ is that there is more room for the international passenger's luggage. That's the first time I've ever heard that as a good reason to fly the incredibly slow, boxy DASH-8. But, hey, it does have more luggage space.

I think the DH8 is the right aircraft for these routes both logistically and financially. You'll be surprised how many people waste 4 hours each way taking ground transportation to JFK from PVD. Some do BOS, but we loose a ton of international traffic to JFK/EWR. The whole package is nice - good connections to large domestic markets and the plethora of feed to every corner of the world - I like it!
 
flyinryan99
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:27 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 36):
I think the DH8 is the right aircraft for these routes both logistically and financially.

Does any one else think this could be a trial to possibly place an order in the future for newer Dash 8s for DL partners? (maybe for flights out of CVG?)
 
HPRamper
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:40 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 16):
Where did Mesa pull these Dashes from?



Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 19):
Does Mesa fly any Dash-8's for US Airways anymore?

The Mesa contract with US Airways (East) is expiring and will not be renewed. That could very well be where they get these aircraft from.

Mesa will still be flying in the West operation for years.
 
supa7E7
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:54 am

This Delta effort will highlight JetBlue's failure to lease A330-200s and operate them from JFK to Europe.

It might have worked. Sometimes risks have rewards.

Now, DL will screw up B6's domestic network for years to come, the feeders for DL's growing Europe thing.
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:02 am

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 39):
This Delta effort will highlight JetBlue's failure to lease A330-200s and operate them from JFK to Europe.

It might have worked. Sometimes risks have rewards.

Now, DL will screw up B6's domestic network for years to come, the feeders for DL's growing Europe thing.

You're being sarcastic, right?

B6 has no intent of going overseas. They shouldn't. It's not their strategy. Period.

Also, this isn't going to "screw up B6's domestic network for years to come." The vast majority of this traffic will be feeder traffic to DL's amazing amount of flights to Europe. For O&D traffic, you can certainly count on B6 getting the bulk of passengers - larger planes (E190), leather seats, PTV's, etc. This has been proven before with AE's failed JFK-Upstate runs.

I wish DL the best of luck. I would think that NYC would be able to support the European flights by itself, but if DL finds this more profitable, all the more power to them!

JetBluefan1
 
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jetpixx
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:12 am

Quoting Swank300 (Reply 31):
DL should be careful about changing operations from lga. As a current New Yorker, I will tell you that if I flew ord- NYC, I would want to be flying into LGA because JFK is farther and the roads to JFK can be alot more congested, so from the standpoint of a person who doesn't have alot of time, LGA makes more sense. Just my two cents....

I prefer JFK when flying into NYC, then EWR and lastly LGA. LaGuardia is a great airport if you have friends to pick you up or have a hundred dollars to take a cab into Manhattan. JFK and EWR are great because of the AirTrain and easy connections to the railroad/subway to get wherever you need to without having to depend on anyone else.
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Alitalia744
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:17 am

These routes operated with cheap D-8s are ideal for DL connection. Propjets, in many cases are making a comeback and can in some instances carry more cargo than their regional jet counterparts. I'm not sure why everyone is freaking out.

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 40):
Also, this isn't going to "screw up B6's domestic network for years to come." The vast majority of this traffic will be feeder traffic to DL's amazing amount of flights to Europe. For O&D traffic, you can certainly count on B6 getting the bulk of passengers - larger planes (E190), leather seats, PTV's, etc. This has been proven before with AE's failed JFK-Upstate runs.

Blue sunglasses on again? AE's failed upstate runs have to do more with American than jetBlue putting PTVs. AE pulled out of many cities jetBlue has never flown to...ALB is an example.

And need we remind anyone the reason jetBlue got NYS support in the first place? What exactly did ever happen to that promised JFK-ALB service?
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
belizexp
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:23 am

Quoting Jaws707 (Reply 22):
With this strategy of building up JFK, I wonder if routes like ORD-LGA will still make sense, or if it'll make more sense to change this route to ORD-JFK.

DL already doing two daily JFK ORD
JFK market is set up more for Int Feed the upcome LGA ORD will be for more local O/D

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 38):
The Mesa contract with US Airways (East) is expiring and will not be renewed. That could very well be where they get these aircraft from.

Mesa will still be flying in the West operation for years.

Interesting do you think maybe next year DL will try to use Mesa in LAX and drop A/E
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MalpensaSFO
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RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:25 am

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 40):
For O&D traffic, you can certainly count on B6 getting the bulk of passengers - larger planes (E190), leather seats, PTV's, etc.

If you fly a lot, you would opt for Delta Sky Miles, over Jet Blue hands down....
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 3310
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:29 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 42):
And need we remind anyone the reason jetBlue got NYS support in the first place? What exactly did ever happen to that promised JFK-ALB service?

There was never promised JFK-ALB service. It was only promised that there would be JFK-Upstate runs...which JetBlue has fulfilled very well, by the way:

8x JFK-BUF
5x (6x this summer) JFK-ROC
3x JFK-SYR

Now, as for DL's new domestic service, I don't see it really appealing all that much to the average O&D passenger. If I'm someone who lives in New York and wants to go to RIC, who am I going to fly? The airline that puts me on a 50-seater CRJ with one flight attendant and pay-on-board snack service? Or an airline that puts me on a 100-seater mainline jet with two flight attendants, unlimited free snacks, greater pitch, XM radio and 36 channels of TV to boot? While it doesn't make the biggest difference on a 1.5 hour flight, if the fares and schedule are the same...

I'm not trying to put down DL - I really hope that they are successful. But they have me wondering what their exact strategy is. Since they haven't realeased schedules yet, I cannot make totally accurate assumptions right now. However, if they are looking to capture international traffic with these new flights, there should only be 1 or 2 flights on each route in order to link with the international banks. Anything more would be asking for O&D traffic, and that's one front that DL cannot compete with, especially now that B6 has the E190s which were specifically ordered for JFK-MidAtlantic and New England flights.

Also, didn't DL recently pull service from JFK to Charleston, WV and Lexington/Concorde, New Hampshire? If so, then that even confuses me more on their strategy. If those cities couldn't support international connections, how do they think that similarly-sized cities will be able to?

JetBluefan1
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:32 am

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 26):
But still not enough, so...back to the props that people hate. This shift in general in the industry will lead invariably to more fatalities, which will scare more people, which will start that vicious cycle all over again. (Disagree? When was the last time a CRJ or Jungle Jet went down in revenue flight in the US? In contrast, when was the last fatality of a Part 121 prop in revenue service?

I wouldn't expect you to be spreading prop fear-mongering. I thought you were better than that. It's not like the CRJ is the most flaw-proof bird around either, Pinnacle proved that, and the Challenger as a whole has had a few icing probs (Ebersol, TEB..)

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 35):
That's the first time I've ever heard that as a good reason to fly the incredibly slow, boxy DASH-8.

On most of those routes they wouldn't be able to get above 10,000 feet on a CRJ, so the speed concern is moot. The CRJ would be limited to 250 too.
 
kkfla737
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 2:28 am

RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting Belizexp (Reply 43):

DL already doing two daily JFK ORD

I thought I read somewhere that this route was being cut? Is that the case?
 
SeeTheWorld
Topic Author
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 am

RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:45 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 42):
These routes operated with cheap D-8s are ideal for DL connection. Propjets, in many cases are making a comeback and can in some instances carry more cargo than their regional jet counterparts. I'm not sure why everyone is freaking out.

The only reason props are making a comeback is because of the price of oil. Customers generally don't like them, and as much as everyone has complained about the CRJs lately, one ride on a slow, boxy Dash-8 and they will long for the CRJs.

The fact is, putting in a bunch of flights to connect passengers to your international flights has never proven to be a good strategy. It's an extremely costly way to marginally improve your international bottom line. Flights need to carry a good mix of local and connect to be viable over the long-term. It's unclear whether these flights will be able to do that.

I wonder if there's concern at Delta about future bookings for their extensive European additions?
 
Alitalia744
Posts: 3800
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: New DL JFK Domestic HUB

Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:48 am

Okay , let's play the game....see responses below.

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 45):
Now, as for DL's new domestic service, I don't see it really appealing all that much to the average O&D passenger. If I'm someone who lives in New York and wants to go to RIC, who am I going to fly? The airline that puts me on a 50-seater CRJ with one flight attendant and pay-on-board snack service? Or an airline that puts me on a 100-seater mainline jet with two flight attendants, unlimited free snacks, greater pitch, XM radio and 36 channels of TV to boot? While it doesn't make the biggest difference on a 1.5 hour flight, if the fares and schedule are the same...

NYC has some of the largest loyal FF bases, a vast majority of which are with AA, DL and CO, therefore, to an average O&D passenger who has to travel and is a member of a mileage program, they'll choose the carrier that they're members with or can obtain miles through via an alliance.

There is no buy-on-board snack service on any Delta operated flight except Song flights. All flights offer either a snack (peanuts/pretzels) or a selection from the snack basket (sun chips, pretzels, cheese crackers, animal crackers, go to delta.com and read the options).

Again, aside from jetBlue fanatics, most customers can fly contently without a PTV and XM sattelite radio.

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 45):
I'm not trying to put down DL - I really hope that they are successful.

Please...anything against jetBlue is an enemy... no?

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 45):
But they have me wondering what their exact strategy is. Since they haven't realeased schedules yet, I cannot make totally accurate assumptions right now. However, if they are looking to capture international traffic with these new flights, there should only be 1 or 2 flights on each route in order to link with the international banks.

Again, go to www.delta.com and look for the flights, they're already available for sale, particularly the JFK-ALB-JFk flights. There are flights timed throughout the day, with one or two specifically designed to feed into the Euro banks Delta operates at JFK.

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 45):
Anything more would be asking for O&D traffic, and that's one front that DL cannot compete with, especially now that B6 has the E190s which were specifically ordered for JFK-MidAtlantic and New England flights.

Again, E190s isn't the answer to everyone's questions. read my first response.
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