leelaw
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Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:13 pm

(Dow Jones 3/8/06) PARIS -- European plane maker Airbus is likely to deliver more planes during 2007 than it does in 2006, Noel Forgeard, joint Chief Executive of main owner European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co. NV said Wednesday.

"I dare say that the growth will continue in 2007," Forgeard said at a news conference in Paris. EADS said Wednesday that it expects to see 10% growth in Airbus deliveries this year over the 378 it delivered during 2005...

...Forgeard said Airbus is on course to deliver two double-decker A380 planes by the end of this year, although he added doing this will be a "real challenge."

...EADS' other joint CEO Thomas Enders added Airbus is targeting over 400 plane deliveries during 2006, and deliveries should again be over 400 in 2007 and 2008.


Forgeard makes another interesting comment, what is the "real challenge" in delivering 2 A380s by the end of the year? Hopefully, this doesn't signal Program Delay II?

[Edited 2006-03-08 12:38:33]
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
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RE: Forgeard Sees 2007 Airbus Deliveries Up On 2006

Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:16 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
...Forgeard said Airbus is on course to deliver two double-decker A380 planes by the end of this year, although he added doing this will be a "real challenge."

NOT what SQ wanted to hear...  Sad
 
WINGS
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RE: Forgeard Sees 2007 Airbus Deliveries Up On 2006

Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:22 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):

...Forgeardsaid Airbus is on course to deliver two double-decker A380 planes by the end of this year, although he added doing this will be a "real challenge."

Due to the latest development concerning certification of the A380 I too would admit that keeping to the original schedule is going to be challenging.

Certainly not good news for either Singapore, Qantas or Emirates.

Regards,
Wings
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Cruiser
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RE: Forgeard Sees 2007 Airbus Deliveries Up On 2006

Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:33 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 2):
Due to the latest development concerning certification of the A380 I too would admit that keeping to the original schedule is going to be challenging.

Wings, could you please just let us know what you mean by 'original schedule'? I assume you are referring to the latest one.

James
Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
 
leelaw
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:53 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 2):
Due to the latest development concerning certification of the A380

What development are you referring to?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
nijltje
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:54 pm

Is it a real challenge to get the target date or is he saying we are on course but it's a real challenge for a company to produce such a plane and deliver it.

It's a massive difference!
 
Cruiser
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:01 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
...Forgeard said Airbus is on course to deliver two double-decker A380 planes by the end of this year, although he added doing this will be a "real challenge."



Quoting Nijltje (Reply 5):
Is it a real challenge to get the target date or is he saying we are on course but it's a real challenge for a company to produce such a plane and deliver it.

He is clearly referring to getting the two delivered this year.

James
Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
 
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:22 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 4):
What development are you referring to?

I'd presume Wings means the uncertainty about whether certification can be negotiated following the premature wing break, or whether further tests and/or wing mods. will be required?

On A380 delivery, the date is already out to December, and, if I recall correctly, they were only talking about two aeroplanes in any case. That means that Singapore can't confidently sell tickets for the summer 'high season' (November onwards) anyway. So I don't suppose it will make a bad situation that much worse.

Some of the 'small print' here. Quite good results on the surface. But, interestingly, it appears to confirm that BAE wants out (by exercising their put option), and that EADS is making provision for paying up:-

"It also benefits from a different accounting treatment of BAE Systems’ minority stake in Airbus. Revised application of IAS 32 standards required changes regarding the accounting for the put option granted to BAE Systems as a minority shareholder of Airbus (20 percent). These changes contributed € 289 million to Net Income (FY 2004: € 185 million) or € 0.36 to earnings per share (FY 2004: € 0.23). These changes also resulted in the recognition of the put option in the balance sheet as a liability for puttable instruments (€ 3.5 billion). The liability replaces the minority interest for BAE Systems’ 20 percent Airbus stake in EADS’ balance sheet."

Can't be sure what the accountants' gobbledegook means, but I THINK it implies that the price for BAe's stake has already been negotiated, as at some date before the end of the financial year. And that therefore BAe's 20% share of Airbus profit won't go to them this year, and E289M. can be added to EADS' 2005 profits. At the price of paying BAe E3.5B. out of THIS year's revenues.

http://www.eads.com/web/lang/en/1024...F00000000400004/6/03/31000036.html

[Edited 2006-03-08 13:27:42]
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WINGS
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By

Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:30 pm

Quoting Cruiser (Reply 3):

Wings, could you please just let us know what you mean by 'original schedule'? I assume you are referring to the latest one.

Well to be correct it would be the second schedule. I was referring to the NOV/DEC for the introduction of the A380 into commercial service.

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 4):

What development are you referring to?

The wing rupture test. This may cause some unexpected delays.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:29 pm

Yes...the FAA mandates a FS of 1.5 on all primary structure. Falling short of the FS is not acceptable.
 
PlaneDane
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:59 pm

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 9):

Yes...the FAA mandates a FS of 1.5 on all primary structure. Falling short of the FS is not acceptable.

Does anyone have an opinion on what Airbus will do with the aircraft and wings already built? It seems unlikely that retrofitting them with the needed modifications would be feasible.
 
Joni
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:06 am

PlaneDane,

According to Airbus, they most likely don't have to do anything to the planes already built, since the static-test wing was the first one they built and they believe they can prove to the authorities that that one was weaker than other already existing wings.
 
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:08 am

Quoting Joni (Reply 11):
According to Airbus, they most likely don't have to do anything to the planes already built, since the static-test wing was the first one they built and they believe they can prove to the authorities that that one was weaker than other already existing wings.

That's all conjecture at this point. Nobody yet really knows how this will all play out.
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DAYflyer
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:58 am

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
Forgeard makes another interesting comment, what is the "real challenge" in delivering 2 A380s by the end of the year? Hopefully, this doesn't signal Program Delay II?

Spin for "I don't think we're going to make that date..." and "this may cost us a couple of bucks to fix the wings"
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Kangar
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:03 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 13):
Spin for "I don't think we're going to make that date..." and "this may cost us a couple of bucks to fix the wings"

Or spin for "I wanted to remain CEO of Airbus and retain control, and now that I can't, I'll try to undemine those now in the hot seat"
 
Dougloid
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:14 am

Quoting PlaneDane (Reply 10):
Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 9):

Yes...the FAA mandates a FS of 1.5 on all primary structure. Falling short of the FS is not acceptable.

Does anyone have an opinion on what Airbus will do with the aircraft and wings already built? It seems unlikely that retrofitting them with the needed modifications would be feasible.

I worked on a Metroliner that had done a gearup landing and ground the spar cap down a little bit. Fairchild made up something of a rupture truss that got the job done.

My guess is that you will see the granddaddy of all metal jockstraps scabbed on...and don't ask how much it weighs either.
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Gatorman96
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:21 am

When will the wake turbulence tests be conducted? I think this will be the next big hump that the A380 program will have to pass. If there are any discrepancies with this test, then the program could see huge setbacks (in both delivery schedule and future orders)...
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:26 am

Interesting quote.... 'Regarding the A340 long-haul plane, which garnered only 15 sales last year, Forgeard said he expects 'a big sale of A340s in very little time.' Airbus is currently negotiating the sale of A340s, a rival to Boeing's 777 jet, to Qatar Airways and India's Kingfisher Airlines.'

What's his definaition of 'big sale' in this case? 3,10,30,70??
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
Kangar
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:32 am

Guys, To be fair, we have covered all the would be delay type rumours from Wing tests to turbulence in exhaustive (some would say exhausting) detail....do we need to go through it again. Saying something is a challenge doesn not change the schedule....but given the hyperanalysis going on, Forgeard would have been better off keeping schtum.
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:47 am

Quoting Kangar (Reply 18):
but given the hyperanalysis going on, Forgeard would have been better off keeping schtum.

Delays are delays and they'll happen anywhere. Let's wait and see what happens when the 787 gets delayed coz you bet it will (even if it'll be by a month). I think it's all about how the manufacturers go about handling the situation. The comments above by Forgeard definitely did not help.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
Gatorman96
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:47 am

Kangar, it is exhausitng, but I would rather them screw up in testing than in real life when the plane is full of 500 people. Some of us on this forum find this stuff intersting, even if it is redundant. If you see a thread title with A380 in it, just don't read it. Guess what this forum is going to look like when the 787/A350 are going thorugh testing. It will be an absolute A vs. B bash fest!  Smile
 
scoljet
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:29 am

Quoting Gatorman96 (Reply 20):

Unless the supposed A350 gets a COMPLETE makeover there wont be much to bash the 787 will be the superior aircraft.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:35 am

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 17):
Interesting quote.... 'Regarding the A340 long-haul plane, which garnered only 15 sales last year, Forgeard said he expects 'a big sale of A340s in very little time.' Airbus is currently negotiating the sale of A340s, a rival to Boeing's 777 jet, to Qatar Airways and India's Kingfisher Airlines.'

yah..I agree....I wouldn't be surprised if it was QR...even if it wasn't, I've noticed lately when Airbus says "expect an order"...it usally does mean something of significance........we'll see......

that being said, the A340 doesn't compare to the 777 in any way, shape, or form..... no ...
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glideslope
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:39 am

A380 = Concorde.

I'm all for national pride people, but you would have thought the lessons learned would have been remembered?

The A350 better start selling fast, or Airbus is finished.

I can see 748 sales on 2006. Boeing reads the market once again.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:39 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 22):
that being said, the A340 doesn't compare to the 777 in any way, shape, or form.....

Except AF's A340's and 777 have the same color..  biggrin 
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jacobin777
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:58 am

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 24):

Except AF's A340's and 777 have the same color..  biggrin 

silly me.....how could I forget?.. biggrin 
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Tom_EDDF
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:06 am

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 23):
A380 = Concorde.

I'm all for national pride people, but you would have thought the lessons learned would have been remembered?

The A350 better start selling fast, or Airbus is finished.

What a B.S.
 
astuteman
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:08 am

Quoting Scoljet (Reply 21):
Unless the supposed A350 gets a COMPLETE makeover there wont be much to bash the 787 will be the superior aircraft.

You'd think that the airlines that have ordered the A350 would understand this wouldn't you? Somehow they just don't seem to get it......
You could write and let them know.........
 
airfrnt
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:12 am

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 23):
A380 = Concorde.

Concorde failed because a coalition of enviornmentalists and special interests killed the idea of flying > Mach 1 domestically. (This also killed the B2707).

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 23):

The A350 better start selling fast, or Airbus is finished.

No, Airbus has plenty of orders for the A320/A319 and continues to enjoy a order advantage on this platform. That will continue for a while. Airbus does have to do something to address the widebody gap at some point. But they are hardly finished.

(BTW, it was this kind of statement that the Airbus trolls were gloating over a few years ago... learn from their mistakes).
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:19 am

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 28):
Concorde failed because a coalition of enviornmentalists and special interests killed the idea of flying > Mach 1 domestically. (This also killed the B2707).

And the extreme cost of aquiring and opperating an aircraft with atrocious fuel consumption in the 1970s oil crisis had nothing to do with it?
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congaboy
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:31 am

Put yourself in the position of Airbus...what would you say, knowing you sold the platform with contracts that contain penalty clauses? Not great for them to corner themselves without knowing what kind of "hiccups" they WILL encounter. But without that type of commitment, will SQ and QF buy the A380? EK, AF, and LH might. A high stakes moment, but I can't believe they didn't anticipate this. THe question is how do you handle it? Are you straight with the marketplace, or employ spin? I think Airbus may have been a bit too ambitious in their project planning.
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TinkerBelle
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:42 am

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 23):
The A350 better start selling fast, or Airbus is finished.

You're kidding, right?
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:47 am

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 23):
The A350 better start selling fast, or Airbus is finished.

I am a big Boeing fan, but even I know better than that. No one failed program will kill Airbus, there is too much government subsidies $ at stake for that to happen/
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RichardPrice
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:47 am

Concorde didnt fail, it just didnt succeed as hoped. BA and AF will have words with anyone who says Concorde was a failure.
 
congaboy
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:12 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 34):
Am I the only one sensing some hoping / frustration / cranked patriotism here?

Sorry you feel that way regarding my commentary. Not my intention at all. I would say the same for Boeing...they have made their share of blunders. For the record, Keesje, I rather like Airbus aircraft.
"Joey, you like movies about gladiators?"
 
RedChili
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:19 am

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 23):
The A350 better start selling fast, or Airbus is finished.

Yes, defintely!!! Airbus will go bankrupt before the end of this year unless they get some more A350 orders!!! They had such huge losses last year, and almost no backorders in the book, except for a handful of A350s to Air Europe!!

(/sarcasm off)

Imagine if somebody had written this about Boeing two years ago: "The B787 better start selling fast, or else..." How we would be able to laugh of this today!

Believe me, neither Boeing nor Airbus is finished!
Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
 
astuteman
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:20 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 32):
I am a big Boeing fan, but even I know better than that. No one failed program will kill Airbus

Absolutely right, and if the A380 hasn't finished Airbus off, the A350 certainly isn't capable of it.

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 32):
there is too much government subsidies $ at stake for that to happen/

Absolutely wrong. This might have been the case in the '70's and '80's, but today, "government subsidies $" have no bearing whatsoever on Airbus's survival or demise.
A
 
ScottB
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:22 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 34):
Am I the only one sensing some hoping / frustration / cranked patriotism here?

Am I the only one sensing worry from one of the resident Airbus spin doctors?
 
dazeflight
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:24 am

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 23):
I can see 748 sales on 2006. Boeing reads the market once again.

You better stop reading your handlines. That'll keep you from talking b.s. like

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 23):
A380 = Concorde.
[...]
The A350 better start selling fast, or Airbus is finished.
 
BoomBoom
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By

Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:07 am

Airbus denies A380 delays
Airbus insists it will meet a year-end delivery deadline for the first of its A380 superjumbos, despite technical hitches.

The first delivery to Singapore Airlines has already been delayed by several months and speculation that Airbus may not be able to meet the new December deadline surfaced yesterday in France, after deliveries of parts to the assembly facility in Toulouse appeared to slow down.

But a spokesman for Airbus said the firm still planned to make the deliveries to Singapore by the end of 2006.


http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/business.cfm?id=350592006
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WesternA318
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:17 am

Quoting RedChili (Reply 36):
Imagine if somebody had written this about Boeing two years ago: "The B787 better start selling fast, or else..." How we would be able to laugh of this today!

LOL, wasnt this actually said about a year ago?
 
andessmf
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:17 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 29):
And the extreme cost of aquiring and opperating an aircraft with atrocious fuel consumption in the 1970s oil crisis had nothing to do with it?

The Concorde was not a techical failure at all, it is still the only successful sst to this date. It will probably retain that crown for a decade or more. Fuel costs did have a lot to do with its economical 'failure', essentially the price of oil quadrupled in 73.

The only 'failures' Concorde made were two. 1) Supersonic travel was more for the 'rich', so most people can oppose it on the fact that it will not affect them 2) There was/is a huge problem with the supersonic shock wave, which limited their travel to overwater
 
Kangar
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:31 am

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 23):
A380 = Concorde.

I'm all for national pride people, but you would have thought the lessons learned would have been remembered?

The A350 better start selling fast, or Airbus is finished.

I can see 748 sales on 2006. Boeing reads the market once again.

Glideslope,
1. Do you know what a Concorde is, and doe you know what an A380 is? Neither bears the remotest resemblance to the other, in any shape form, motivation, or sales.

2. The A350 is selling, around the 180 mark at last check I think. Remember, this is in a market predicted to be in the thousands, Airbus in a worst case can expect to pick up at least 35% of them, and this is assuming Boeing's performance claims for the 787 vs. the A350 are true. If the A350 delivers similar performance, the could be on a winner.

3. As for the 748, it doesn't take a visionary to see orders for this a/c in 2006, the question is how many. If it didn't sell a passenger variant this year then Boeing would have to consider the viability of that particular project. They need orders before the A380 gets up and running, because if initial perfromance figures for the A380 are good, you could end up with airliens doing similar to SIA with the 777s, and "misusing" the A380 on routes that would have been the core market for the 748.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:34 am

Quoting Andessmf (Reply 42):
The only 'failures' Concorde made were two. 1) Supersonic travel was more for the 'rich', so most people can oppose it on the fact that it will not affect them

The Concorde was not undertaken as a vehicle for the elite. It was intended to start a super-sonic revolution that would displace all previous generations of aircraft, hence Boeing's decision to build the 747 for non-passenger application.

The Concorde only became a premium product when it was aparent that economy seats would never break even, and an elite cachet was required.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
andessmf
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:02 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 44):
The Concorde only became a premium product when it was aparent that economy seats would never break even, and an elite cachet was required.


Do you think that the Concorde 'B' would have been built and had more success if the 73 embargo hadnt occurred? Just looking for you opinion.
 
NAV20
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:52 am

Andessmf, sadly, the Concorde never came anywhere near any kind of 'success'. Specifically:-

1. The two governments lost every penny/centime of the development cost (I think it was estimated at 2B. pounds, an enormous amount in those days).

2. The airlines didn't pay anything for the aeroplanes (well, actually, they had a grotesque little ceremony where the airline chiefs actually handed over 'one British pound' as the purchase price).

3. For several years the two governments had to subsidise the two airlines to fly it at a loss.

So I'm afraid that it was a complete financial disaster, whichever way you look at it, and that that was clear long before the '73 oil crisis. The thing cost so much to develop that the project could never have broken even or made a profit. And it carried so few passengers, and used so much fuel, that it could only break even at best in service (even though the airlines had not had to pay for it).

[Edited 2006-03-09 02:53:33]
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
georgiabill
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RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:36 pm

Just curious had there been no delays in the A380 production and certification, How many A380"s would Singappore have had at the end of 2006? Even though Singappore may still accept delivery on 2 A380's by year end,how soon after delivery before they are put into revenue service?
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:45 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 46):
The thing cost so much to develop that the project could never have broken even or made a profit.

Interesting question: How many Concordes needed to be sold to break even? I dont think Ive ever heard that number.

What do you guys think?
 
Gatorman96
Posts: 841
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:22 am

RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By YE

Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:45 pm

Keesje, way to chime in and say nothing constructive. I will say the same thing when the 787 goes through testing. It will have it's hitches just as anything else new that comes on the market. I'm neither pro boeing nor anti-airbus. I just want to fly on safe planes. It's simple as that!
 
leelaw
Topic Author
Posts: 4517
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: Forgeard: "Real Challenge" To Deliver A380s By

Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:24 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 38):
Quoting Keesje (Reply 34):
Am I the only one sensing some hoping / frustration / cranked patriotism here?

Am I the only one sensing worry from one of the resident Airbus spin doctors?

Does Dolly Parton sleep on her back?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae

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