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vegasplanes
Posts: 703
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:22 pm

RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:34 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 49):
So what should be done

That's what I was asking cjpark, if the commercial traffic, WN is gone, all that is left is the GA traffic, private planes. From what I am reading he is only talking about getting rid of WN not closing the entire airport. He seems so against DAL that one would think his idea should be to close it and rebuild.
 
crownvic
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RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:04 pm

The biggest problem at LAS as I have stated in many other LAS topics in the past, is runway capacity. Obviously, the ideal situation would be to expand McCarran. There are plenty of areas to add terminal capacity and that is being addressed. However, regardless of what you read on the McCarran web site, the problem now and what will continue to get worse, is the runway situation. Intersecting r/w's are a nightmare for ATC operations and they do not allow for good traffic flow. Go to LAS on any given day between 1100 and 1200 hours. You will see upwards of 30 a/c waiting for t/o. Why? Because traffic gets so backed up on the E/W runways, the airport is forced to also use N/S runways causing intersecting gridlock.

It is easy for A.net readers that are semi-familiar with the area to simply say, "buy up businesses along Sunset Rd." Are you people serious? Have you all bothered to evaluate what the cost of land is in America's fastest growing city? Currently, anything along Sunset Rd. goes for US$1 Million per acre. Included in this area is many thriving businesses that are alone worth millions of dollars alone. Add in the environmental impact studies and you would be looking at about a US$1 Billion Dollar investment, JUST to add a runway! There is absolutely no place to put another r/w at McCarran and that is what is needed. The option to even try an AMS style runway where the location is a far remote distance from the airport is no longer viable. The land surrounding LAS is now about 95% occupied.

The bottom line is, the cost of land surrounding LAS has reached unprecedented levels. The Ivanpah Airpot is going to happen and it is already being funded. Don't be surprised 20 years from now if a large chunk of LAS does not get sold off to the private sector for development. The land that LAS is sitting on right now is some of the most valuable real estate in the U.S. The profits realized by the county in a sale could easily make the Ivanpah Airport a top notch facility, while a downsized McCarran can still prosper in a reduced capacity.

One thing that people must realize is Vegas is like no other city in the world. A building that is 20 years old here is considered ancient. They tear down multi million dollar buildings here for sport! Don't think that for one second McCarran will avoid the same fate. If they can do it bigger and better, it will be in Vegas and don't be surprised if it is Ivanpah!
 
vegasplanes
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RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:34 pm

Quoting Crownvic (Reply 51):
One thing that people must realize is Vegas is like no other city in the world. A building that is 20 years old here is considered ancient. They tear down multi million dollar buildings here for sport! Don't think that for one second McCarran will avoid the same fate. If they can do it bigger and better, it will be in Vegas and don't be surprised if it is Ivanpah!

True, we love blowing buildings up for fun Big grin

Here is the problem, LAS will be at capacity by 2017 assuming status quo. From what CCDOA is planning at Ivanpah is approx. 50 % of the size of the current LAS, not counting future expansion plans. Of course things can change between now and then. But in order for LAS to be razed and the land sold, CCDOA needs to be looking at a minimum of 6 runways and north of 150 gates to accomdate projected current demand plus room for growth, right from the start. Not to mention how will these people get back to Vegas, I-15 is already at nearly twice its capacity in the resort corridor even with re-striping to 6 lanes each direction, they would need to make I-15 15 lanes in each direction to accomodate the traffic load from Ivanpah.

LAS can still be improved, redo A/B gates when T3 goes up, get rid of Janet flights/terminal, most all GA traffic/hangers/parking areas, Executive Terminal. Henderson Executive has been doing major expansion last few years, second runway, currently building GA terminal. Should help take the load off of LAS GA traffic wise.

As for the redevlopment possibilities at LAS, we have so much to redo currently in Vegas, pretty much everything north of Spring Mountain to Dowtown on Las Vegas Blvd. will be re-built. Same with the Harmon corridor from Paradise to the Palms, Downtown in general, Paradise between Twain and DI. Than there is the South Strip that is just getting started. Basically we got a ton of developing to do before we completely need to raze LAS. LAS is essential to having a close-in "Manhattanization" of Vegas, that would be like living in the City and flying out of ISP without LAS in Vegas. As for traditional residential in Vegas, watch the Cental parts of town, big lots, no CC & R's, close to everything, great for some tear-down/re-build action.
 
N200WN
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RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:43 pm

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 17):
Whether or not your airport system can pay for itself is not germain to my post

Now what the hell do the [email protected]#%& germans have to do with it?
 
crownvic
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RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:56 pm

Vegasplanes...I know you know the Vegas area well, but I think your still missing my point. I did state that there is plenty of room for growth in terminal aspect. No problem there. It is the runway situation that does not have an answer. If you made all the areas redundant that you mention and converted them to pax terminals, you could easily double the gate capacity at the airport, but without additional r/w's, it will not help.

Additionally, I did not say that LAS would completely shut down. I mentioned a partial closure concurrent to the opening of Ivanpah.

As for the I-15 corridor, no doubt that this is the biggest hurdle for Ivanpah. As you know, this highway is already a total nightmare. As you probably also know, there has been a lot of studies for the installation of a mag-lev from the new airport into town. While this maybe far fetched for the U.S., I think that if any place could do it, it would be Vegas. If they do not come up with some sort of master transportation plan to move people from Ivanpah into the city, then it will be a disaster.
 
iowaman
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RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Sat Mar 11, 2006 5:13 pm

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 42):
Why not take out 19L since that's the one that intersects with 25R? That would allow for more dual ops and greater capacity. You could have all the heavies and mainline aircraft going out of the 25s and then save 19R for the GA flights.

I dunno, I guess it doesn't matter.  Wink

Quoting Crownvic (Reply 51):
The biggest problem at LAS as I have stated in many other LAS topics in the past, is runway capacity.



Quoting Crownvic (Reply 51):
Intersecting r/w's are a nightmare for ATC operations and they do not allow for good traffic flow. Go to LAS on any given day between 1100 and 1200 hours. You will see upwards of 30 a/c waiting for t/o. Why? Because traffic gets so backed up on the E/W runways, the airport is forced to also use N/S runways causing intersecting gridlock.

I disagree, LAS needs a total new arrival/departure procedure, including arrivals on 19L/R and departures only on 25L/R. There is no reason they can't do Land and Hold Short Operations like half the other airports in this country. The runways only intersect at the very ends and I don't even think 19R or 25L intersect. Basically, 25L and R for departures, Arrivals on 19L and R holding short of which ever 25 runway it is. They could have four real simultaneous runways going at once.

Quoting Crownvic (Reply 51):
Have you all bothered to evaluate what the cost of land is in America's fastest growing city?

And how much is Ivanpah going to cost, something like $3B?

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 39):
2)If/When it happens they will close LAS ala Stapelton and build condos.

You can't be serious. LAS is right the by the strip, with Billions invested in new gates and many other things. Mc Carran is the backbone to tourism into LAS, and will always be a priority for the City/County.
 
vegasplanes
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RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:34 pm

Crownvic - I hear your points, I agree LAS is maxed out on runways, Ivanpah is going to be needed by 2017 or so, I completely agree with that. Transport to/from Ivanpah will be a major issue to be worked out in that time frame, not to mention potential lawsuits from Californians and environmental groups and the like. They tied up expanding US 95 for something like two years, how long will this be tied up in court for ?

Seems we just have a difference of opinion on the roles Ivanpah and LAS will play in the Vegas Valley. I forsee LAS remaining as is, expanding to full capacity and remaining there, no closures or sales of facilities. LAS being the main airport, while Ivanpah is a reliever airport, akin to LAX vs. ONT. Ivanpah has the potential to be a great reliever airport, if the propert access is built, Ivanpah could become the preferred airport for the Southern communities, Southern Highlands, Anthem, 7 Hills, etc. If the landing/parking fees, lease rates, etc. are low enough, which they should be compared to LAS, the charter carriers, G4, freight carriers, would probably switch airports. In the current environment, it would not surprise me if some of the major carriers with a small LAS presence moved over, NW, NK, F9, AA, CO. HP and WN would probably set up a station, I could see WN having 20-25 flights to the top destinations, PHX, SAN, BUR, LAX, mainly to serve the local market, not so much for the tourists. Fares from LAS will/would rise as LAS gets up to capacity, that would also help Ivanpah win some passengers over.

IF the CCDOA ever did decide to reduce LAS, the west side and North side of the airport would go. Mainly the areas I mention previously along with the 1/19 runways, along with the frontage on Trop. That land would be worth the most value in $, and the least to a reduced LAS, can not sell the South side, need the 25's for those hot and high summer days as 25R is the longest runway on the property. Would eliminating the 1/19's increase efficiency ?
 
bayareapilot
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RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:58 pm

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 12):
As for Dallas, they F***ked up big time with DFW, at this point in time, without the AA hub at DFW, DAL would probably be more than large enough to handle all Metroplex flights with the amount of service currently being provided to the area.

You've got to be kidding? Dallas/Ft. Worth is the fifth largest metro area in the US. There's no way DAL could handle the traffic in a DFW-less world.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
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RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:20 pm

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 46):
Notice that after a few comments the pro-Southwest crowd (except one) packed out of this thread. The arguments in favor of keeping an old airport open get really dicey once there is no Luv in the scene.



Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 48):
Nope, some of us (me) just woke up since I am in a time zone 9 hrs ahead of DAL and 11 hrs ahead of LAS.

The rest of 'em might have been following college basketball tournaments. It is possible to have a life outside A.net....in fact, it's not only possible, it's desirable.

While I'm not in the same locale as TxAg, I made a single comment much earlier in the thread, and then left, since even at that point the LAS theme of the thread was already getting hijacked/morphed into yet another pointless Wright thread. At this point, they are a huge waste of time--time I can better spend elsewhere.

Now, obviously, you're reading something more into that, but your assumptive conclusion(s) as to why myself and other pro-repeal folks are not participating in this thread are just that--assumptions, and we all know how accurate assumptions can be...

Carry on... (but without yours truly...)
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
cjpark
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RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Sun Mar 12, 2006 12:47 am

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 47):
Yet, currently you are supporting DAL being open, WA aside, by flying from there at all. The cash you are giving WN to fly those flights is ammo in WN's camp to keep DAL open to commercial traffic and try to remove the WA. Yet all you are proposing is to restrict commerical traffic at DAL, not close the airport and redevelop it.

The only way I could realistically meet your requirements for not supporting DAL is to sell my house move out of Dallas and and refuse to support business in Dallas by not spending any money in the City of Dallas thereby avoiding property and sales taxes to the City and boycott WN.

There is only one destination on WN that I fly to for business. Houston. The only other time I fly on WN is to use rapid rewards tickets to fly to Harlingen for holiday.

Either way close and redevelop DAL or if Congress will write the law that enables communities to declare airports off limits to commercial service and close them to commercial airline services and allow DAL to stay open to serve the GA market and for industrail uses then great.

Quoting N200WN (Reply 53):
Now what the hell do the [email protected]#%& germans have to do with it?

It is a misspelling, the word should be Germane.

But I also had to wonder what the [email protected]#%& Germans had to do with it when Herb brought them up at the Senate Hearings on the WA.
"Any airline that wants to serve the [region] can go to DFW today and fly anywhere they want," WN spokesman Ed Stewart
 
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eta unknown
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RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:19 am

Wide-body incentives could come from the airport authority as an incentive to curb the number of take-offs/landings. Or else the LVCVA could get involved (they re-imbursed JAL for years).

"Snoberlin" residents do not think their opinion is higher- we just have more money!
 
dalneighbor
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RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:37 am

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 59):
if Congress will write the law that enables communities to declare airports off limits to commercial service and close them to commercial airline services and allow DAL to stay open to serve the GA market and for industrail uses then great.

Wait a minute, I thought you were concerned about traffic and noise around DAL not to mention safety. You suddenly are in favor of keeping DAL open to the loudest aircraft without limits and despite your safety concerns as long as you get to shutout WN. I guess you can argue it flat or round just so long as you get to penalize WN.
Wright Amendment = Federally Engineered AA Price Gouging
 
vegasplanes
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RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 59):

The only way I could realistically meet your requirements for not supporting DAL is to sell my house move out of Dallas and and refuse to support business in Dallas by not spending any money in the City of Dallas thereby avoiding property and sales taxes to the City and boycott WN.

Not really, fly CO or AA from DFW if you feel that strongly about closing DAL.

Quoting ETA Unknown (Reply 60):

"Snoberlin" residents do not think their opinion is higher- we just have more money!

Not really, Scumerlin residents got their community forum from the FAA. The FAA basically said we are not changing our mind, the "right turn" stays. The major problem is the residents lack of research, all they had to do was ask for a copy of the valley flight paths, all Realtors and Builders have them due to these issues. The "right turn" was the majority of departures prior to 2001, this is nothing new.
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:34 am

Quoting Crownvic (Reply 51):
Don't be surprised 20 years from now if a large chunk of LAS does not get sold off to the private sector for development. The land that LAS is sitting on right now is some of the most valuable real estate in the U.S.

Yep, and that is why...eventually...those in charge will rip it up.

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 55):
Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 39):
2)If/When it happens they will close LAS ala Stapelton and build condos.

You can't be serious. LAS is right the by the strip, with Billions invested in new gates and many other things. Mc Carran is the backbone to tourism into LAS, and will always be a priority for the City/County.

No, I am not kidding. As pointed out above, the intrinsic value of the property is worth way more than whatever they have invested in the property when they decide it is obsolete. Government does it all the time. The proposed new airport is only the beginning of LAS migration south.
 
HPRamper
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RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:07 am

Quoting ETA Unknown (Reply 60):
Wide-body incentives could come from the airport authority as an incentive to curb the number of take-offs/landings. Or else the LVCVA could get involved (they re-imbursed JAL for years).

Still the question: What incentives in particular? Cut landing and gate fees? Cheaper leases? Paying for advertising?
 
cjpark
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RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:37 am

Quoting DALNeighbor (Reply 61):
Wait a minute, I thought you were concerned about traffic and noise around DAL not to mention safety. You suddenly are in favor of keeping DAL open to the loudest aircraft without limits and despite your safety concerns as long as you get to shutout WN. I guess you can argue it flat or round just so long as you get to penalize WN.

Everyone should be concerned about the quality of live around and safety at all airports. Reaching a bit aren't you?

I want what is best for our City and region. No matter how you look at it WN is the cause of the problem.

No airlines at DAL then no problem.
or
NO AIRPORT NO PROBLEM.
"Any airline that wants to serve the [region] can go to DFW today and fly anywhere they want," WN spokesman Ed Stewart
 
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eta unknown
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RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:11 am

Incentives- I'd be inclined to cut the landing charges. I'm not sure what the hush-hush deal was with JAL, but I'd guess either something to do with their LAS landing fees or some deal on incurred expenses on the LAS-LAX sector. Curiously, the route will be suspended in September, 5 years after their first service... don't agreements like this usually expire after that amount of time?
 
dalneighbor
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RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:51 am

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 65):
I want what is best for our City and region.

You beat your chest with this mantra and then turn around and advocate shipping the 5th largest taxpayer in Dallas to PHX not to mention all the jobs and economic impact of DAL.

Not only does AA not pay a single cent in taxes to Dallas, but not even the sales tax collected at DFW goes to Dallas. Grapevine is the recipient of that windfall. So when your kind trot out the tired "economic engine" argument, one has to wonder just where Dallas fits in.
Wright Amendment = Federally Engineered AA Price Gouging
 
HPRamper
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RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Sun Mar 12, 2006 12:11 pm

Quoting DALNeighbor (Reply 67):
Not only does AA not pay a single cent in taxes to Dallas, but not even the sales tax collected at DFW goes to Dallas. Grapevine is the recipient of that windfall. So when your kind trot out the tired "economic engine" argument, one has to wonder just where Dallas fits in.

Whatever happened to your whole "making the region competitive in the world" idea?

So what if the City of Dallas doesn't get all that tax money? I thought we were talking about the region. Is Grapevine undeserving of taxes?
(And does Irving not get a dime? The airport proper straddles the county line)

I guess that's another broad point of this whole issue. DFW is a regional airport....DAL is a Dallas airport. Like Dallas does not make enough taxes from its 1.5 million+ residents and its other corporations - after all, Southwest is only the fifth biggest employer in the city.

You talk about wanting what's best for the region, yet you argue against focusing the region's air transport power in a single superairport...and you keep arguing FOR what's good for Dallas in particular.

Dallas on its lonesome does not the region make, my friend.
 
cjpark
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RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Sun Mar 12, 2006 12:57 pm

Quoting DALNeighbor (Reply 67):
You beat your chest with this mantra and then turn around and advocate shipping the 5th largest taxpayer in Dallas to PHX not to mention all the jobs and economic impact of DAL.

Not only does AA not pay a single cent in taxes to Dallas, but not even the sales tax collected at DFW goes to Dallas. Grapevine is the recipient of that windfall. So when your kind trot out the tired "economic engine" argument, one has to wonder just where Dallas fits in.

There you go again making up stories to support your own agenda.

What I said concerning the announcement that WN was being courted by Phoenix was this:

1. The announcement by WN saying it had been approached by Phoenix was meant by WN to warn the City not to meddle in its Wright Repeal effort.

2. In my opinion the city should tell WN if you move your headquarters then no more Love Field for you. Now choose wisely.

Now concerning your statement that AA and DFW do not contribute to Dallas. Have you forgotten that the City has a 10 BILLION DOLLAR INVESTMENT IN DFW?

The economic health of the region does not depend upon Dallas subsidizing WN. WN needs us more than we need them.
"Any airline that wants to serve the [region] can go to DFW today and fly anywhere they want," WN spokesman Ed Stewart
 
dalneighbor
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RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:17 pm

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 69):
1. The announcement by WN saying it had been approached by Phoenix was meant by WN to warn the City not to meddle in its Wright Repeal effort.

WN did not announce anything. Phoenix came calling and you are:

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 69):
making up stories to support your own agenda.



Quoting Cjpark (Reply 69):
. In my opinion the city should tell WN if you move your headquarters then no more Love Field for you. Now choose wisely.

How is it good for the city to lose not only WN, but the economic impact of DAL as well? Not only is it a farse to say you want what is best for the city of Dallas, you are almost as blatantly encouring damage to Dallas as you are to WN.

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 69):
Have you forgotten that the City has a 10 BILLION DOLLAR INVESTMENT IN DFW?

Yet Dallas receives no direct taxes from that investment in DFW unlike DAL which is paying off for the city of Dallas quite nicely.

Nobody on the pro-repeal side is calling for the closure of DFW nor any restrictions on DFW. It is only the Pro-Wright crowd that is trying to close airports and reduce consumer choice. I know you would love to frame this as a win - lose situation where you can only have DAL or DFW and one has to close, but that's not the case and both airports can thrive and serve our community in a very fine manner.
Wright Amendment = Federally Engineered AA Price Gouging
 
cjpark
Posts: 1226
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:46 am

RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:55 pm

Quoting DALNeighbor (Reply 70):
WN did not announce anything. Phoenix came calling and you are:

http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/bus/...s.ART.State.Edition3.22da46b2.html

http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/news...a060224_lj_southwest.5d5acb27.html

Pointing out that you actually do make up stories to support your agenda.

Quoting DALNeighbor (Reply 70):
How is it good for the city to lose not only WN, but the economic impact of DAL as well? Not only is it a farse to say you want what is best for the city of Dallas, you are almost as blatantly encouring damage to Dallas as you are to WN.

Listen the ball is in WN's court. WN would be stupid to leave this market. Yes they can be moved to DFW and they know it. What is best for the region is best for Dallas. Dallas can't stand alone and the City Leaders know it. Why do you think there is an effort underway to reach a compromise before Congress settles the matter for us in a way that benefits only WN and no one else and sets off a wave lawsuits between the cities.

Quoting DALNeighbor (Reply 70):
Yet Dallas receives no direct taxes from that investment in DFW unlike DAL which is paying off for the city of Dallas quite nicely.

Nobody on the pro-repeal side is calling for the closure of DFW nor any restrictions on DFW. It is only the Pro-Wright crowd that is trying to close airports and reduce consumer choice. I know you would love to frame this as a win - lose situation where you can only have DAL or DFW and one has to close, but that's not the case and both airports can thrive and serve our community in a very fine manner.

First of all the City of Dallas earns no taxes from operations at DAL. Airports are only supposed to generate enough revenue to stay in operation. Closing DFW or placing restrictions on DFW makes no sense and that is why the smarter members of the drove have not brought it up. DAL is excess capacity for PAX service it is not needed. In fact no other airport but DFW is needed for PAX service in the area right now. Without WN at DAL there is no support for PAX service at DAL anyway. DAL as GA makes sense.

Like I said earlier no airlines at DAL no problem. Or no airport no more problem.
"Any airline that wants to serve the [region] can go to DFW today and fly anywhere they want," WN spokesman Ed Stewart
 
crownvic
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RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:20 pm

IOWAMAN...There is no doubt that the Land and Hold Short is causing a good deal of the problems. I have never understood who decides whether this is allowed at an airport or not. We both have different opinions on the long term for LAS. I just feel that the $3 Billion spent will be best for the long haul eventually turning Ivanpah into a mega-complex. I can see it looking like a CLK in 20-25 years. I realize you feel different and of course, you have a right to your opinion

Vegasplanes....Yes, just a difference in opinion on the long term. If what I said comes to fruition about the partial closure, I agree 100% that it would be the west end that goes along with both N/S parallels. Obviously, this is the most valuable part of the airport. I also foresee all of Terminal 1 & 2 going as they are already getting old. I realize a lot of money is going into this part of LAS for the new baggage/security area, but I am talking 20 years from now. The current D gates and the new Russell Rd. pax complex would serve as the basis of the future LAS w/ the E/W parallels remaining.

There are many world airports that are situated 30 miles outside of the city and they work well. Provided a good surface infrastructure is in place for getting the pax to and from the city, there is no reason that Ivanpah cannot fulfill the long term (25-50 years out) as the primary Las Vegas airport.
 
dalneighbor
Posts: 589
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:04 pm

RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:09 am

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 71):
Quoting DALNeighbor (Reply 70):
WN did not announce anything. Phoenix came calling and you are:

http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/bus/...s.ART.State.Edition3.22da46b2.html

http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/news...a060224_lj_southwest.5d5acb27.html

Pointing out that you actually do make up stories to support your agenda.

Here are the first two paragraphs of the link you posted:


Southwest Airlines Co. has agreed to hear a proposal from the city of Phoenix about moving its headquarters, the Dallas-based carrier said Friday.

"They came knocking, and we decided, as a courtesy, to grant the opportunity," said Southwest spokesman Ed Stewart. The airline did not request the meeting, and it has not been scheduled, he said.

Now, that is exactly what I said. WN did not ask for a meeting nor did they announce one. Some journalist picked it up and wrote a story about it.

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 71):
Listen the ball is in WN's court. WN would be stupid to leave this market. Yes they can be moved to DFW and they know it.

You're changing the subject. You said the city of Dallas should threaten to close DAL if WN leaves and then actually close it if WN does leave. So not only is Dallas hurt by the loss of WN, but it is hurt by the loss of DAL. You may actually live in Dallas, but your claim to want the best for the city and it's citizens is a cover for your personal agenda of WN destruction.

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 71):
First of all the City of Dallas earns no taxes from operations at DAL.

Are you dense? If Grapevine is the recipeint of sales tax revenue at DFW, who do you think collects all the sales tax revenue at DAL? In addition, Dallas collects all the property tax revenue from the dirt, buildings and equipment at DAL. Dallas gets nothing from DFW.

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 71):
DAL is excess capacity for PAX service it is not needed. In fact no other airport but DFW is needed for PAX service in the area right now.

So its ideal to have airports at capacity with no room for growth? Why would you destroy DAL's capacity, especially when you are going to need additional capacity in the future? Your idea of destroying DAL now just so it can be rebuilt again in the future is pure lunacy. In your world of anything and any cost to tear down WN, it might make sense.
Wright Amendment = Federally Engineered AA Price Gouging
 
cjpark
Posts: 1226
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:46 am

RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:35 am

Quoting DALNeighbor (Reply 73):
Now, that is exactly what I said. WN did not ask for a meeting nor did they announce one. Some journalist picked it up and wrote a story about it.

Who do you think called the journalist knowing full well it would be published?

Come on you should be smarter than that.

Quoting DALNeighbor (Reply 73):
You may actually live in Dallas, but your claim to want the best for the city and it's citizens is a cover for your personal agenda of WN destruction.

If you say so.

Quoting DALNeighbor (Reply 73):
Are you dense? If Grapevine is the recipeint of sales tax revenue at DFW, who do you think collects all the sales tax revenue at DAL? In addition, Dallas collects all the property tax revenue from the dirt, buildings and equipment at DAL. Dallas gets nothing from DFW.

You really need to read up on and learn how property taxes are used in the State of Texas.

Ever hear of the Dallas County tax appraisal district? Half of that airport sits in Dallas County meaning we get the property taxes from that airport to.
"Any airline that wants to serve the [region] can go to DFW today and fly anywhere they want," WN spokesman Ed Stewart
 
dalneighbor
Posts: 589
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:04 pm

RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:15 am

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 74):
Who do you think called the journalist knowing full well it would be published?

I think you should be able to prove it before you state it as fact, or say that it is your opinion if you cannot prove it.

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 74):
You really need to read up on and learn how property taxes are used in the State of Texas.

Ever hear of the Dallas County tax appraisal district? Half of that airport sits in Dallas County meaning we get the property taxes from that airport to.

Here are the taxing jurisdictions in the city of Dallas:
DALLAS CITY
DALLAS ISD
DALLAS COUNTY
DALLAS CO COMMUNITY COLLEGE
PARKLAND HOSPITAL

WN and all property owners at DAL pay taxes in all of these jurisdictions. Which means that they are supporting our city and school system with taxes.

AA pays not one thin dime to any of these jurisdictions. Furthermore, I do not believe that any of the property associated with DFW airport in Dallas County is owned by anyone other than public entities, thus they would not be paying taxes to themselves. If you believe Dallas County collects taxes from anything at DFW you are going to have to prove it because I don't believe that is the case.
Wright Amendment = Federally Engineered AA Price Gouging
 
floorrunner
Posts: 187
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 7:11 am

RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:07 am

What has happenned here? I thought this thread was supposed to be about Las Vegas and their airport problem. It did not take very long for it to be hijacked into another wright ammendment debate by the same people who usually do.
 
dalneighbor
Posts: 589
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:04 pm

RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:34 am

Cj, post your replies in Wright Or Not - LCC Not Interested In DAL (by DALNeighbor Mar 11 2006 in Civil Aviation)
and I'll do the same and leave these fine folks to the business of Southern Nevada.
Wright Amendment = Federally Engineered AA Price Gouging
 
stirling
Posts: 3896
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:00 am

RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:08 am

Just a random thought from a random rainy Sunday Morning.

Colorado River Bridge.

I wonder how its completion in 2008 will affect passenger traffic from Phoenix?
Delete this User
 
HPRamper
Posts: 5113
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: Another Wright Thread - Vegas Style

Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:47 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 78):
Colorado River Bridge.

I wonder how its completion in 2008 will affect passenger traffic from Phoenix?

Tell us more.

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