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airA380
Topic Author
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LHR Slot Capacity

Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:11 am

I know getting slot in LHR is very hard for obvious reasons.Does anyone know how many slot will available on completion of Terminal 5.
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Gemuser
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RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:15 am

NONE - slots are limited by runway capacity, not Terminal capacity. T5 will not add to the runways.

Gemuser
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airA380
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Posts: 174
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RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:18 am

so what was the point of building new termial without a runway
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Carpethead
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RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:22 am

Quoting AirA380 (Reply 2):
so what was the point of building new termial without a runway

Have you ever been to LHR's terminals? Atrocious. Other than the shopping facilities everything else needs to go.
 
airA380
Topic Author
Posts: 174
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RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:38 am

I am aware of that...but what i meant is that there was lot fuss about terminal 5 will increase air travel(pessengers, more plane) that the argument against T5 and all the protests...all the those who live under the flight path..I have message for them tough!!!

I live under a flight path and screaming jet engine waking me at 4am...that is the best sound I hear!!!!!!!!  Smile
I'm flying without wings!!!!!!!!
 
vincewy
Posts: 533
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RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:54 am

Didn't I hear they plan to tear down T1 or T2 once T5 opens? If so, no slots will free up, it'll help a lot if curfew is lifted at LHR
 
pogo
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 1:58 am

RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:33 pm

Quoting Vincewy (Reply 5):
Didn't I hear they plan to tear down T1 or T2 once T5 opens?

Yes, that is true, I work at T2 and we have been told that around march 2008 will be the date for moving out and over to T4.
When in doubt give it a clout
 
airA380
Topic Author
Posts: 174
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RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Sat Mar 11, 2006 7:25 pm

With T5 in place ....will schedule flight fly longer hours for instance 24 hour schedule flight........I think at the moment LHR schedule flight operates 6am to 11pm..correct me if i'm wrong.
I'm flying without wings!!!!!!!!
 
David_itl
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RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Sun Mar 12, 2006 12:41 am

There might be a (very) limited chance of more night-time flying, but the best that could be envisaged in the short-to-medium term would be mixed-mode operations during peak periods.
 
757ops
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RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:52 pm

current hours of operation at LHR/EGLL are 0600-2329 the latter being the final airborne time. I know when I have had delays in the past we have taxied out at around 2320 and got to the runway hold point around 2328 and been refused takeoff! but usually they are good as long as you let them know in advance and they will allow you dispensation of up to 1am! Seems strange therefore why they have a curfew???!!
 
BCAL
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RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:56 pm

Quoting 757ops (Reply 9):
current hours of operation at LHR/EGLL are 0600-2329

I am sure that I read something in the papers last week that they had agreed to an extension of the 06:00-23:29 operations hours, much against the protest of those living under LHR's flightpaths.
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N1120A
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RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:34 pm

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 3):
Other than the shopping facilities everything else needs to go.

While the shopping is plentiful at LHR, I find it quite annoying when trying to find my gate I get stuck in a maze of shops.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
anstar
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RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:24 pm

Quoting AirA380 (Reply 2):
so what was the point of building new termial without a runway

A lot of delays at LHR are caused to no spare gates being free. I recall waiting 45 minutes for a stand on my last AMS flight! More gates will be a glad relief at LHR
 
AADC10
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RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:30 am

Quoting AirA380 (Reply 4):
I am aware of that...but what i meant is that there was lot fuss about terminal 5 will increase air travel(pessengers, more plane) that the argument against T5 and all the protests.

I think the argument against T5 was not necessarily that it would immediately lead to a greater number of flights. It would put pressure to lift the curfew and increase passenger volume with airlines switching to larger aircraft. Flights might also increase if technological changes allowed closer spacing of flights.

I guess the answer is to go to CDG, as long as the roof does not cave in.
 
soups
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RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:33 am

i flew into LHR at 2am from a delayed flight before...the airport was deserted and you could hear a pindrop
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:57 am

I was on a UA SFO-LHR flight years ago, we arrived over london at 5am and touched down at 5.45am, I was in Paddington by 6.30 !
I recall being told the pilot saying they were low on fuel and so we didnt have to hold and we went straight in.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
airA380
Topic Author
Posts: 174
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:27 am

RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:09 am

Eventually airline serving LHR has to go for Bigger aircraft as pessenger numbers increase...even if number of slot is increased by extending schedule flight operation time..

Does any one know the maximum number of pessengers T5 will be able to handle per hour.
I'm flying without wings!!!!!!!!
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:11 am

Quoting AirA380 (Reply 16):
Eventually airline serving LHR has to go for Bigger aircraft as pessenger numbers increase...even if number of slot is increased by extending schedule flight operation time..

woud you care to explain why JL, NH have DOWNGRADED from the 744 to the 777-300ER???
"Up the Irons!"
 
airA380
Topic Author
Posts: 174
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RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:29 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 17):
Quoting AirA380 (Reply 16):
Eventually airline serving LHR has to go for Bigger aircraft as pessenger numbers increase...even if number of slot is increased by extending schedule flight operation time..

woud you care to explain why JL, NH have DOWNGRADED from the 744 to the 777-300ER???

I don't know answer to that question. Bigger aircarft have longer separation time that would be take into account before larger aircraft is adopted. When I said bigger aircraft I didn't mean all 747/a380 something like a340/777 and reduction of smaller aircraft like a320/737 hence it would increase passenger volume.LHR has to look into increasing Passenger volume...as it is inevitable.
I'm flying without wings!!!!!!!!
 
LHR27C
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RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:16 am

Even now, LHR's theoretical operating hours of 0600-2329 are not absolutely adhered to - looking at the arrivals logs for the last few days there are always up to about 20 widebodies landing between 0430 and 0600 from BA, VS and other airlines. There's also a sort of mixed mode in operation in the early morning, both runways are now used for landings until 0700 to help cope with the huge volume of inbound traffic. So although LHR is very regulated in terms of operating hours it isn't true to say nothing happens before 6am. Mixed mode throughout the day would obviously help increase slot availability, although from what I've heard it would take a lot of work in terms of ATC procedures, training etc to integrate so isn't something that could happen immediately.
Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned forever skyward
 
vincewy
Posts: 533
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:32 am

RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:00 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 17):
woud you care to explain why JL, NH have DOWNGRADED from the 744 to the 777-300ER???

My opinion, may be partially correct, because current demand hasn't reached the slots/airport capacities those airlines have (remember BAA was still giving EK extra LHR slot not too long ago and BA still has breathing room when T5 opens), so they can be flexible using smaller aircrafts, with current fuel prices, it's a lot cheaper to use 773ER (it consumes only 2 3rds of fuels compared to 744) and reduce the economy class section NOW, yields are better. Wait another 10-15 years, if, and that's if, A380 can prove the cost per seat is lower AND when double daily 773s can't meet the demands, airlines will have no choice but to use 748 and A380, especially at LHR. I also expect to see the same pattern at other busy European/Asian airports.

Earlier reports from BAA (I'll extract the article if I can find it) predict 30% of aircrafts at LHR will be A380s by 2020, not a crazy estimate IMO.
 
airA380
Topic Author
Posts: 174
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:27 am

RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:15 am

Quoting LHR27C (Reply 19):
Even now, LHR's theoretical operating hours of 0600-2329 are not absolutely adhered to - looking at the arrivals logs for the last few days there are always up to about 20 widebodies landing between 0430 and 0600 from BA, VS and other airlines. There's also a sort of mixed mode in operation in the early morning, both runways are now used for landings until 0700 to help cope with the huge volume of inbound traffic. So although LHR is very regulated in terms of operating hours it isn't true to say nothing happens before 6am. Mixed mode throughout the day would obviously help increase slot availability, although from what I've heard it would take a lot of work in terms of ATC procedures, training etc to integrate so isn't something that could happen immediately.

I read some article that said LHR is not allowed to have schedule flight outside the hours of 0600-2329.But it can operate beyond this hours if there is delay to schedule flight for instance if a flight is scheduled to takeoff at 2325...and there was a delay(say 30min) due to unforseeable circumstance then it can takeoff or in emergency
I'm flying without wings!!!!!!!!
 
B752OS
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RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:17 am

How big is the new T5 going to be? As in how many gates will it have and compared to the other LHR terminals, how big will it be?
 
[email protected]
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:30 am

Quoting Vincewy (Reply 20):
(remember BAA was still giving EK extra LHR slot not too long ago

Correction: BAA does not control slots at LHR, slots at LHR are allocated by a neutral, independent company comprising of several different airlines.
In Arsene we trust!!
 
babybus
Posts: 2379
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RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:53 am

Sometimes my flts arrive at LHR at 04:50. It's normally a 777 and they don't use reverse thrust and are tugged to the gate.

I live under the flight path into LHR and I'm pleased they restrict the hours as some of us have to sleep. "Heavies" arriving early morning are not a problem. "Heavies" departing late are a nuisance.

LGW and STN are better suited to all night operations.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:57 am

Quoting AirA380 (Reply 18):
I don't know answer to that question. Bigger aircarft have longer separation time that would be take into account before larger aircraft is adopted. When I said bigger aircraft I didn't mean all 747/a380 something like a340/777 and reduction of smaller aircraft like a320/737 hence it would increase passenger volume.LHR has to look into increasing Passenger volume...as it is inevitable.

got ya!

Quoting Vincewy (Reply 20):
Wait another 10-15 years,

time will till...not going anywhere... Smile

Quoting Vincewy (Reply 20):
(remember BAA was still giving EK extra LHR slot not too long ago and BA still has breathing room when T5 opens),

slots are available if one is willing to pay the price...
"Up the Irons!"
 
Gemuser
Posts: 5095
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:50 am

Quoting AirA380 (Reply 21):
I read some article that said LHR is not allowed to have schedule flight outside the hours of 0600-2329.But it can operate beyond this hours if there is delay to schedule flight for instance if a flight is scheduled to takeoff at 2325...and there was a delay(say 30min) due to unforseeable circumstance then it can takeoff or in emergency

I dont know the details but here are five flights scheduled to arrive LHR between 5:00 and 6:00 am:
BA16/QF319 from SYD/SIN
BA??/QF301 from SYD/BKK
QF9 from MEL/SIN
SQ322 from SIN
CX251 from HKG

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
scotron11
Posts: 1432
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:54 pm

RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:07 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 17):

woud you care to explain why JL, NH have DOWNGRADED from the 744 to the 777-300ER???

Probably because their arrival into LHR is around 1500-1700 which is not the busiest time for the airport.

Quoting B752OS (Reply 22):

How big is the new T5 going to be?

T5 will handle all BA traffic at LHR, currently 30M a year. Main building will have 20 aircraft stands and two satellite buildings will accommodate 16 aircraft each. It will also have 5 stands capable of handling the A380.

Reports have said BA will be the sole user, although other reports say QF will move their operations over to T5 as well. I guess we will see.

If BA get their pension deficit and other factors under control, their 10 777 slot reservation from 2008 would be firm, which would replace some of their 767's, giving them a big capacity lift.
 
airA380
Topic Author
Posts: 174
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:27 am

RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:08 pm

Quoting [email protected]LHR (Reply 23):
Correction: BAA does not control slots at LHR, slots at LHR are allocated by a neutral, independent company comprising of several different airlines

what are they called or do you have link to their website. where can i find slot availability of LHR
I'm flying without wings!!!!!!!!
 
gkirk
Posts: 23421
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:10 pm

The company are called ACL IIRC.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
LeonB1985
Posts: 690
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:21 pm

RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:50 pm

See here for the ACL (Airport Coordination Ltd) website.

[Edited 2006-03-14 15:50:36]
From the construction site that is better-known as London Heathrow Airport
 
LHR777
Posts: 645
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:14 pm

RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:04 am

Quoting AirA380 (Reply 18):
woud you care to explain why JL, NH have DOWNGRADED from the 744 to the 777-300ER???

Because of market saturation on the LHR-NRT route, which isn't particularly performing well for any carrier at the moment.

Quoting [email protected]LHR (Reply 23):
How big is the new T5 going to be? As in how many gates will it have and compared to the other LHR terminals, how big will it be?

In addition to the main terminal building, T5 also consists of two satellite buildings (the second of which will be completed by 2011), 60 aircraft stands, a new air traffic control tower, a 4,000 space multi-storey car park, the creation of a new spur road from the M25, a 600-bed hotel, the diversion of two rivers and over 13km of bored tunnel, including extensions to the Heathrow Express and Piccadilly Line services.

Remember, 60 aircraft stands does not mean 60 gates. A number of stands will be served by the 'off-pier' operation, meaning the use of a bus to the aircraft. This is likely to be around 20% of the initial daily operation, between 2008 and 2011.

The T5 resident carrier will be ONLY British Airways. Qantas is moving to T3, along with BA's flights to Spain and possibly Italy. This is because T3 is geographically closer to the T5 campus. Star Alliance goes to T1, SkyTeam goes to T4, OneWorld (non-BA) moves or stays in T3, including BMED. T2 gets demolished, prior to the construction of Heathrow East.
 
Humberside
Posts: 3237
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:44 am

RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:51 am

Quoting LHR777 (Reply 31):
OneWorld (non-BA) moves or stays in T3, including BMED.

What about the GB Airways flights?
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
Speedbird2155
Posts: 694
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:44 am

RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:11 am

Quoting LHR777 (Reply 31):
OneWorld (non-BA) moves or stays in T3, including BMED

As far as I am aware BMED operated services will be from T5. The only BA destinations from T3 will be those to Australia and Spain that operate jointly with QF and IB. BMED and GB Airways (and any other franchise) operated services are treated as BA flights and not seen as seperate from the overall operations.
 
Speedbird2155
Posts: 694
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:44 am

RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:48 am

Quoting B752OS (Reply 22):
How big is the new T5 going to be? As in how many gates will it have and compared to the other LHR terminals, how big will it be?

The total T5 site is five times the size of Terminal 4.

The main terminal building is 400m long, is 43m high, five levels – each the size of 10 full-sized football pitches

The first phase in 2008 (the main terminal building (T5A) and first satellite (T5B)) will have 40 aircraft stands:

· T5A will have 19 jetty-served stands and 4 off-pier stands

· T5B - 15 jetty-served stands and 2 off-pier stands

T5C from 2011 - 16 stands, 10 to be jetty-served.
 
Humberside
Posts: 3237
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:44 am

RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:53 am

So for GB Airways, Malaga would be from T3 with Gibraltar and Morocco from T5?
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
IBERIA747
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:43 am

RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:51 am

Quoting B752OS (Reply 22):
How big is the new T5 going to be?

The main building (or T5A) is 400m long, 180m wide and 43m high - the same height as Tower Bridge.
The total area covered by T5 is 265-hectare - the equivalent size of 50 football pitches - as large as London's Hyde Park or 4 times as big as Terminal 4.

http://www.heathrow-airport-uk.info/heathrow-airport-terminal-5.htm

It's important to mention that those 265 hectare-area is the entire land area occupied by the whole new complex and not the building's size which will be about 360,000 sq. meters.

Although it won't be Europe's largest terminal, it will be up there in the Top 3 anyway. As a single terminal it will be the world's 4th after HKG's only terminal, BCN's new terminal currently under construction and MAD's recently opened Terminal 4.
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:58 am

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 26):
I dont know the details but here are five flights scheduled to arrive LHR between 5:00 and 6:00 am:
BA16/QF319 from SYD/SIN
BA??/QF301 from SYD/BKK
QF9 from MEL/SIN
SQ322 from SIN
CX251 from HKG

Between 2359 and 0600 hrs a severely limited number of flights are allowed equating to about 15 flights a day. As Gemuser has effectively illustrated these are almost exclusively long haul arrivals.

Quoting AirA380 (Thread starter):
Does anyone know how many slot will available on completion of Terminal 5.

As has already been stated T5 will not in itself increase the number of slots. Currently some 470,000 are in use which is at or near saturation. However it has been reported - see http://www.heathrow-airport-uk.info/heathrow-airport-news-071205b.htm - that the UK government will consider allowing the introduction of mixed mode operations that, in THEORY, could increase the number of slots available by between 15 and 20 per cent.

Currently if the wind is from the prevailing westerly direction all departures are only from 26R or from 26L from 0600 to 1500 hours when they transfer to the other runway. The following week everything is switched around so if 26R was the departure runway in the morning and early afternoon in Week 1 it will be the arrival runway at that time in Week 2. This ensures that residents in the heavily built up area under the glide paths to the east of LHR get some periods of relative quiet every day. (With easterly winds 09L is the arrival runway and 09R the departure runway with the glide path to both over relatively open countryside.)

This mode of operation is inefficient as with mixed use of both runways departures could be slotted more efficiently between arrivals. Also either arrivals or departures (depending on the runway in use for departures) going to or coming from T4 would no longer have to cross an active runway as they currently do as, with mixed mode all T4 arrivals and departures could be from 27L.

So, in THEORY adoption of mixed mode operation could result in a total of up to 90,000 new slots being created. However the actual maximum number of slots LEGALLY allowable at LHR is 480,000. The planning inquiry into T5 imposed this enforceable restriction in slots as a condition for the terminal being built.

One good thing about mixed mode - apart from providing an increase of usable slots of around 2 per cent - is the A380 situation. With no increase in slots at LHR the turbulence from the 380 - requiring greater separation between it and the following aircraft - would actually reduce passenger capacity by reducing slot availability. But with mixed mode the greater separation could be easily absorbed in the theoretical increase in slots that could not be actually used. So if a 380 proves to require 1.5 slots the 80,000 otherwise unusable slots would allow for up to 160,000 380 movements a year!
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:44 am

Quoting LHR777 (Reply 31):
Because of market saturation on the LHR-NRT route, which isn't particularly performing well for any carrier at the moment.

exactly....so what would adding even more seats do?

I see the same thing with LHR-SYD.......there are over 1/2 dozen carriers competing on this route...

BA, QF, SQ, CX, VS, MH, EK.........and do not be surprised if one eventually sees QR and Etihad competing too.....

also, of the aforementioned carriers listed above, QF, SQ, VS (mentioned they will) will by flying the Kangaroute route too....with EK really potentially dumping a lot of seats on this route....

not good..

[Edited 2006-03-16 02:46:39]
"Up the Irons!"
 
bayareapilot
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:53 am

RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:50 am

Quoting LHR777 (Reply 31):
Remember, 60 aircraft stands does not mean 60 gates. A number of stands will be served by the 'off-pier' operation, meaning the use of a bus to the aircraft. This is likely to be around 20% of the initial daily operation, between 2008 and 2011.

You gotta be kidding. 4.2 billion pounds being spent on this and people will still have to schlep themselves and their bags into a bus?
 
Ozair
Posts: 5538
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

RE: LHR Slot Capacity

Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:05 pm

Quoting Vincewy (Reply 20):
Earlier reports from BAA (I'll extract the article if I can find it) predict 30% of aircrafts at LHR will be A380s by 2020, not a crazy estimate IMO.

Considering that current 747 arrivals make up merely 10% of arrivals at LHR I think even in 15 years time you will not see 30% of all movements as A380s.

A ballpark figure of 30% A380s is 141000 a year based on the above current 470000 slots. That makes approx 387 A380s landing and or taking off a day!

A crazy estimate IMO considering they haven't sold half that many yet and many carriers will not be flying every single one of their A380s to LHR.

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