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767-300ER
Posts: 247
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 7:20 am

RE: Delta Could Use 2nd Daily ATL To Rio Flight

Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:57 am

So how large exactly is the IAH-GRU market? Is that flight a cash cow for CO? Is it more profitable than EWR-GRU?
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5063
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Delta Could Use 2nd Daily ATL To Rio Flight

Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:36 am

Quoting 767-300ER (Reply 50):
So how large exactly is the IAH-GRU market? Is that flight a cash cow for CO? Is it more profitable than EWR-GRU?

The IAH market is shared with GIG as the oil industry is located there. I strong believe IAH is far profitable than EWR as CO keep using a larger plane (764 while EWR uses 762) on IAH-GRU-GIG.
I have no information about the profitability of the flight GIG-GRU-IAH.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: Delta Could Use 2nd Daily ATL To Rio Flight

Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:12 am

Quoting Jumbojet (Thread starter):
it seems that yields are high

How do you know what the yeilds are? That is confidential, internal information that is not made public and that nobody in this forum has the ability to access.

If the yields were high, there would be no question that another section could be added. We need profitable generating routes wherever we can find them.

As we're losing $2-$3 billion a year right now, I think it's a leap to assume the route is profitable at all. Very, very few routes in our network ar profitable at this time.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
AA767400
Posts: 1894
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: Delta Could Use 2nd Daily ATL To Rio Flight

Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:49 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
Gentleman, GIG is under served, it's clear that the little flights get profitability and again, Rio is not São Paulo (who get the São Paulo traffic as well as the entire domestic connections except for 10 to 20% who come to GIG due to better time options), but it grows from 5 million to 9.3 million in 2 years (january was almost 940,000 pax).

Sounds like a Carioca/Paulista football match to me. With you on the Carioca side.  silly 

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 41):
No they couldn't. People who say this are misinformed. It is unlikely that airlines could sustain any flights from the US to deep South America without connections.

It sounds like you are a bit bitter. But just like you want sources from people, where is yours for being "MISINFORMED"? Kind of a 2-way street here? You want sources, but where are yours?
"The low fares airline."
 
jumbojet
Topic Author
Posts: 2957
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

RE: Delta Could Use 2nd Daily ATL To Rio Flight

Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:27 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 52):
How do you know what the yeilds are? That is confidential, internal information that is not made public and that nobody in this forum has the ability to access.

If the yields were high, there would be no question that another section could be added. We need profitable generating routes wherever we can find them.

As we're losing $2-$3 billion a year right now, I think it's a leap to assume the route is profitable at all. Very, very few routes in our network ar profitable at this time.

I clearly didnt say that it was profitable, I said it seems that it is. Big difference
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Delta Could Use 2nd Daily ATL To Rio Flight

Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:08 am

Yield information certainly does become public three to six months after service through the DOT information that US airlines are required to fly.

See,
I’d be a little surprised if IAH-EZE grows larger than ATL-EZE very soon. CO is using a smaller aircraft and has it originating in EWR to help ensure its success. Plus DL has had a multi-year headstart. Not saying CO won’t do what it wants to in EZE but they have hesitated in deep S. America long enough to give DL the chance to move solidly into second place among US carriers. I don’t think DL is backing off and CO doesn’t have many options to make it up. If Argentina remains a limited access market, DL is likely to get the next award since AA dominates the market, UA isn’t even using all of its allocated frequencies year round, and CO just got an award. I don’t think we’ve heard the last about DL’s efforts to fly JFK-EZE.
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2903
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

RE: Delta Could Use 2nd Daily ATL To Rio Flight

Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:40 am

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 53):
It sounds like you are a bit bitter. But just like you want sources from people, where is yours for being "MISINFORMED"? Kind of a 2-way street here? You want sources, but where are yours?

It's been stated and information has been provided that flights to Brazil from America are more than 50% connecting passengers, even at MIA. That's fact. The hub and spoke system is needed by carriers on most international routes. Sure MIA-GRU and MIA-GRU and EZE could fill up maybe a daily 777 with no connecting, but most flights need connecting passengers to fill up enough to make a profit.

Jeremy
 
AA767400
Posts: 1894
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: Delta Could Use 2nd Daily ATL To Rio Flight

Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:35 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 56):
It's been stated and information has been provided that flights to Brazil from America are more than 50% connecting passengers, even at MIA. That's fact. The hub and spoke system is needed by carriers on most international routes. Sure MIA-GRU and MIA-GRU and EZE could fill up maybe a daily 777 with no connecting, but most flights need connecting passengers to fill up enough to make a profit.

But like you said, We need a source! So where is it?  silly 
"The low fares airline."
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26252
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Delta Could Use 2nd Daily ATL To Rio Flight

Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:52 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 55):
Argentina remains a limited access market, DL is likely to get the next award since AA dominates the market, UA isn�t even using all of its allocated frequencies year round, and CO just got an award.

UA is using all their frequencies. They had seven stripped and go to Continental. Also, since AA will likely go for MIA-COR the next time frequencies are offered, it won't be a shoe in for Delta.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 55):
Plus DL has had a multi-year headstart.

Not really. They re-started Buenos Aires only a little over a year ago, December 2004.
a.
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Delta Could Use 2nd Daily ATL To Rio Flight

Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:08 am

DL flew to Argentina before. They didn't toss everything away when they suspended service which is why the route came up to speed pretty quickly.

An entrenched incumbent like AA has no choice but to add new cities in the destination country when competing for new routes because the DOT generally leans towards increasing competition over adding new markets, though it is hardly a hard and fast rule.

I cannot quote the exact number but I am pretty sure than UA is not using all of its allocated Brazil and Argentina frequencies, although in both counts they are for less than daily service. The statistic was quoted by DL in its application to the DOT to "steal" some of those unused frequencies. Check out the DOT filing and I bet you'll find I'm right.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26252
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Delta Could Use 2nd Daily ATL To Rio Flight

Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:44 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 59):

I cannot quote the exact number but I am pretty sure than UA is not using all of its allocated Brazil and Argentina frequencies, although in both counts they are for less than daily service. The statistic was quoted by DL in its application to the DOT to "steal" some of those unused frequencies. Check out the DOT filing and I bet you'll find I'm right.

They are using all their frequencies. They had 14 unused frequencies to Brazil - seven were given to Delta for ATL-GIG and seven they began to use on a 2nd daily IAD-GRU to protect the frequencies. They had 14 unused frequencies to Argentina - seven were given to Continental to start IAH-EZE and the other seven are used on seasonal service between O'Hare and Buenos Aires.
a.

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