planetime
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QF Operations Worldwide

Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:29 pm

Hello,
Where will QF be stepping up their international services in the coming future. I know that SFO has been added along with seasonal YVR. Are the planning their continuing expansion at their de facto secondary hub (LAX) now that they have a maintenance hanger there now. Also how is their JFK flights doing?

Anything in plan for LHR or SIN along the lines also other than the extra MEL-LHR flight they are taking over from BA. Thanks in advance.
 
Gemuser
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:49 pm

Quoting Planetime (Thread starter):
Anything in plan for LHR or SIN along the lines also other than the extra MEL-LHR flight they are taking over from BA. Thanks in advance.

The extra MEL-LHR services is NOT being taken over from BA. It is in fact being moved from SYD to MEL, taking MEL from 1 daily LHR service to 2 and SYD from 3 to 2.

So far the removal of the BA service is a reduction in service on the LHR-Oz route. Of course the end point adjustment may very well be influenced by the BA withdrawal, but its not a capacity change.

QF are still "considering" amended proposals from Boeing for ULH aircraft after they declined to order any last year. If something acceptable is worked out then SYD/MEL-LHR non stop services will be the big development, it will give it a product that no one else (except BA/VS) could possibabley match. (VS seems unlikley and BA will code share from day one). This may also bring the long awaited Oz-DFW route to actuality.

Gemuser
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777ER
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:04 pm

Is there any updates on Jetstar in NZ, like any more routes, taking over NZ domestic routes?
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EK413
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:17 pm

Expect big changes to Qantas' International network when JetStar International is launched in late 2006-2007...

EK413
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Emirates Skies
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:22 pm

Will Jet* International fly to FCO and ATH? Anyone has any info?
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PerthGloryFan
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:45 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 3):
Expect big changes to Qantas' International network when JetStar International is launched in late 2006-2007...

Hmm, I wonder if that will involve taking on EK and SQ ex-Perth?
At the moment QF don't offer much (SIN, HKG & NRT).
Will they realise that Europe consists of much more than LHR and Frankfurt?

I fear QF's innovative days of the middle of last century are long gone.

PGF
 
aussie747
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:52 pm

Quoting Emirates Skies (Reply 4):
Will Jet* International fly to FCO and ATH? Anyone has any info?

They could well do, however IMHO not until it's 787's come online until JULY 2008.

QF will most likely expand PVG/PEK in 2007, with services to PVG out of MEL.

Services in the 2007 northern summer to the USA/Canada could expand with the arrival of the A380 in APR 2007.

Pure speculation at this stage, as there are no new long haul planes due until the A380 next year. I would not expect anything on the Jetstar front until at least MAY and QF until at least October.

However QF may/may not make a decision on it's ULH, this year.
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:00 pm

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 1):
If something acceptable is worked out then SYD/MEL-LHR non stop services will be the big development,

In a recent posting on Tech and Ops , Widebodyphotog said that the -200LR still air range was now 9700nm. Getting very close to QF's 10000nm benchmark.
 
planetime
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:05 pm

Any word on beefing up their existing operations? LHR,LAX???? I know that JFK was recently upgraded how is that working out?
 
mainMAN
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:28 pm

Quoting Emirates Skies (Reply 4):
Will Jet* International fly to FCO and ATH? Anyone has any info?

They're keeping tight lipped about international expansion to keep competitors at bay. Initial routes will be to Asia/Pacific destinations, and after that, I'd imagine that ATH, FCO, and MAN amongst others would be strong contenders.
 
Emirates Skies
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:35 pm

Does Qantas fly to Paris? If not, I think that's one likely route for Jet* International. I would also love to see Jet* International in Dubai. What are the chances of any of these happening?
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mainMAN
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:43 pm

No, QF doesn't fly to Paris, nor Amsterdam. Another two good possibles for Jet*International.

The DXB route is pretty well covered by EK, I'd say!
 
Gemuser
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:39 am

Quoting Emirates Skies (Reply 10):
Does Qantas fly to Paris? If not, I think that's one likely route for Jet* International. I would also love to see Jet* International in Dubai. What are the chances of any of these happening?

QF mainline wants to fly to CDG, but the French will only authorise 3 services per week, which QF claim is not enough to make the route viable. That is, currently, the only port in Europe that QF want to fly to that they dont already do so.

If the current Oz-EU talks produce an open skys treaty you will see QF mainline back in CDG asap. Beyond that?? Hard to say. London, Paris & Frankfurt (for Berlin) are the three largest cities in Europe and are the three cities QF mainline want to serve. From there its a fairly big drop to Madrid which is about the same size as SYD & MEL. I think that is about it for direct/eventual non stop services from Oz.

What, IMHO, QF/JQ International really need is a hub on the eastern edge of Europe which has a strong local airline that QF can take a minority shareholding in and has a good O&D base to build a really good connecting hub in. Something like AA fortress DFW in North America. Of course that does not exist at the present time. ATH would be a good candiate, but OA is a disaster and ATH is a bit south to be ideal. Remeber services from SE Asia/Oz, normally enter European airspace over the former Soviet Union and run down the Balitic to London. So a hub in the former SU or Eastern Europe would be ideal, any ideas?

As for Dubai, doubtful, very doubtful. Although if all else fails maybe it could become a JQ hub! After all it is a totally open airport and most Oz bilaterals allow for Middle Eastern stops.

Gemuser
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planetime
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:25 am

Any word on their existing operations maily SIN,LHR and LAX for Jet*. How about JFK how is that route doing for them since the upgrade at the end last month.
 
mainMAN
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:25 am

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 12):
If the current Oz-EU talks produce an open skys treaty you will see QF mainline back in CDG asap. Beyond that?? Hard to say. London, Paris & Frankfurt (for Berlin) are the three largest cities in Europe and are the three cities QF mainline want to serve. From there its a fairly big drop to Madrid which is about the same size as SYD & MEL. I think that is about it for direct/eventual non stop services from Oz.

I'm not sure that the comparative size of European cities really means a great deal in terms of where an airline like QF would fly. Paris, London and Frankfurt would naturally be the primary markets, not so much due to size but mainly due to their large hub status and comparative wealth.

The importance of accessibility to Berlin is debatable at the moment. It does have a metro population of nearly four million, but it's generally a blue collar type of a place, and doesn't support much by way of long-haul high yield traffic.

I do think that a return of direct Oz services from Amsterdam, Rome, Manchester and even Munich is more probable than Madrid, largely because of the size of the VFR market from those places (not so much AMS/MUC though). It remains to be seen, but one problem that QF have had in offering services from other EU points is the relative lack of high yield traffic from anywhere other than FRA and LHR. Hence Jetstar Int.....I'm pretty sure that I've read somewhere that these are the places they'd most likely go.

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 12):
So a hub in the former SU or Eastern Europe would be ideal, any ideas?

There aren't any right now, as you say. Probably ATH would be geographically the best hub for South Eastern and Eastern Europe, if only it had a half decent resident airline. Other than that, FRA fulfils the role as the best continental European hub; there's little need for another one.
 
rjpieces
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:58 am

Quoting Planetime (Reply 13):
How about JFK how is that route doing for them since the upgrade at the end last month.

Must be doing well since they just increased service on it....
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kesflyer
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:59 am

If they had a new hub in Southern Europe, ATH would make the most sense. Size of the city is irrelevant as it is the traffic that it generates that makes all the difference.

Huge Greek migrant community in Australia and QF coudl team up with A3, however seems A3 has already made the steps to get into Star Alliance with their codeshare flights with LH between Greece and DUS, STR, FRA & MUC.

The big advantage with ATH, is direct flights to other airports with migrant populations in Australia. i.e. Malta, Larnaca, Istanbul, Belgrade, Beirut, Cairo, etc. and to a lesser extent Bucharest, Sofia, Tirana, Chisinau, Kiev, Odessa, Tunis, Damascus, Amman, Tel Aviv, Alexandria, etc..

Also ATH would not have a slot problem and both QF and OA once operated directly to SYD and MEL.

I think QF thru Jetstar would love to take away some business from EK in particular on the AUS-Europe routes and to a lesser extent from the likes of SQ, TG, GF and soon to start QR...

The main issue for Jetstar Int'l is to set up a partner there or even possibly more than one partner...

Still, I think European flights are still several years away as they will concentrate on Asia and USA initially.
 
mainMAN
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:39 am

Quoting Kesflyer (Reply 16):
Huge Greek migrant community in Australia and QF coudl team up with A3, however seems A3 has already made the steps to get into Star Alliance with their codeshare flights with LH between Greece and DUS, STR, FRA & MUC.

The big advantage with ATH, is direct flights to other airports with migrant populations in Australia. i.e. Malta, Larnaca, Istanbul, Belgrade, Beirut, Cairo, etc. and to a lesser extent Bucharest, Sofia, Tirana, Chisinau, Kiev, Odessa, Tunis, Damascus, Amman, Tel Aviv, Alexandria, etc..

Very true, and I can forsee A3 becoming the new national airline of Greece. Athens Airport was conceived as a new hub too.

Didn't QF once operate into Damascus?
 
Gemuser
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:47 am

Quoting MainMAN (Reply 14):
Probably ATH would be geographically the best hub for South Eastern and Eastern Europe, if only it had a half decent resident airline



Quoting Kesflyer (Reply 16):
If they had a new hub in Southern Europe, ATH would make the most sense. Size of the city is irrelevant as it is the traffic that it generates that makes all the difference.

I dont think ATH is all that desirable, IF an alternative further north can be found.

Look at http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=s...E=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=

I think IEV (Kiev) would make a better hub, FROM a geographical point of view. I dont know about the practicality of it however. But it would give the shortest distance to more European cities then anywhere else I can think of. Note that SIN-IEV is 170 nm shorter than SIN-ATH.

A word about the map. The tracks are of course great circle(GC). Airliners dont fly GC, in this case the actual tracks are usually further north with the SIN-LHR track basically comming down the Baltic Sea, across Jutland and then across the North Sea. Keiv is at the end of the second top track.

Gemuser
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mainMAN
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:24 am

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 18):
I think IEV (Kiev) would make a better hub, FROM a geographical point of view. I dont know about the practicality of it however.

Geographically IEV would, but's it's otherwise completely impractical. One place which sprang to mind initially was WAW, again probably impractical.

The last time I flew from MAN to MEL via KUL, we flew right over Kiev.
 
BA
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:38 am

Quoting MainMAN (Reply 17):
Didn't QF once operate into Damascus?

I'm not sure about Damascus, but they did at one point operate to Beirut.
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jupiter2
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:59 am

QF did at one point serve Damascus, Teheran was also served along with Bahrain in the Middle East.

Personally I can't see Jetstar hubbing in Europe anywhere, more than likely it will be 2 to 3 services a week to each destination they choose. The hub will be Singapore for consolidation of the Australian originating flights, Qantas and Jetstar, then eventually a couple of flights a day to various European cities. Say 4 a week to Rome, 3 to Athens, 3 to Amsterdam, 2 to Belgrade and 2 to Manchester, thats 14 a week, 2 a day.

RL
 
planetime
Topic Author
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:35 pm

All these exotic destinations in Europe seems little far fetched. They probably concentrate in and around the Pacific rim and some parts of Asia.
 
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EK413
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:54 pm

Qantas pulled out of SYD-SIN-CDG route I believe in 2002?

Qantas now have a codeshare from SIN-CDG with AF....

EK413
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planemanofnz
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:27 pm

Will QF be looking at increasing their NZ domestic flights? Will they start to fly into Dunedin or Hamilton? Are QF looking at re-introducing South American services from AKL like they used to serve EZE? What about an international flight to/from Rotorua?
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:35 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 24):
Will QF be looking at increasing their NZ domestic flights? Will they start to fly into Dunedin or Hamilton? Are QF looking at re-introducing South American services from AKL like they used to serve EZE? What about an international flight to/from Rotorua?

I highly doubt they would commence flights from Hamilton.. Wellington-Hamilton would be the only viable route (and thats pretty short for a 737!) It would Involve a flight going AKL-WLG-HLZ-WLG-AKL, or CHC-WLG-HLZ-WLG-CHC to rotate the aircraft around. Dunedin ex AKL or WLG is a possibility though. They may require an extra a/c to cover any extra routes though.
Any new Intl flights to Australia from other NZ airports would be done by Jetstar not QF. As for south american flights I was of the understanding that QF lost money when doing these flights but that LA (cheaper labour costs etc) can operate the flight profitably. This of course allows QF to utilise a/c elsewhere instead.
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planetime
Topic Author
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:10 am

how does QF's schedule for the norther summer look. any cutbacks of flight?
 
Gemuser
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Fri Mar 17, 2006 7:56 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 23):
Qantas pulled out of SYD-SIN-CDG route I believe in 2002?

True, but only because they couldn't get daily service. If open skys happens it will most likley be back on pretty quick.

Gemuser
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planetime
Topic Author
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Sat Mar 18, 2006 5:20 pm

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 27):
True, but only because they couldn't get daily service. If open skys happens it will most likley be back on pretty quick.

Gemuser

Is there that much year round demand for SYD-CDG yearround?
 
nzrich
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:43 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 24):
Will QF be looking at increasing their NZ domestic flights? Will they start to fly into Dunedin or Hamilton? Are QF looking at re-introducing South American services from AKL like they used to serve EZE? What about an international flight to/from Rotorua?

Doubt DUD or HLZ will happen especially when QF only fly twice a day CHC-WLG and vv I think they would increase this route first before looking at other routes
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parisien
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RE: QF Operations Worldwide

Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:58 pm

Yes, I am very surprised that QF could not do more that 3 flights per week to CDG despite their wish to do it daily. Did not AF have daily flights to SYD at one point, or was it restricted to 3 flights as well ? Do they always do it tit for tat way in aviation ?
Indeed now, QF and AF are codesharing AF to SIN and QF bearing AF flight number to Australia and AF bearing QF number to Paris. Apparently working out pretty well though I would like to again have QF metals on the tarmac in CDG.

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