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JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:12 am
by Bicoastal
On March 19 between 10:00 and noon, a JAL 747 charter is expected to land in San Diego for a charter flight. I assume it's fans, press, dignataries for the World Baseball Championships being held here. Japan is in the finals, I believe. It's parking at Gate 20 and American Airlines is doing the ground handling....not that they know a thing about 747s!!!

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:15 am
by PanAm747
Quote:
American Airlines is doing the ground handling....not that they know a thing about 747s!!!

Okay, maybe they haven't had much experience with them recently, but don't forget they flew them for several years...and even had a couple of SP's for DFW-NRT for a while!!

It has been SO long since I have seen a 747 on approach to SAN...I'll have to get my camera ready!! And I'm going to the game tonight between Japan and Korea - anyone know how the Korean team is flying?

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:13 am
by lehpron
Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 1):
It has been SO long since I have seen a 747 on approach to SAN...I'll have to get my camera ready!! And I'm going to the game tonight between Japan and Korea - anyone know how the Korean team is flying?

I remeber the BA ones that flew over my home back in 1989 and watching them approach back when we used to be allowed in that parking lot just adjacent to the begining of the runway.

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:32 am
by AirCop
Just a question. Will the 747 be able to fly to Japan non-stop from SAN? As I recalled BA's 747 stopped in either LAX or PHX prior to the long haul to London.

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:10 pm
by PanAm747
Quote:
Will the 747 be able to fly to Japan non-stop from SAN? As I recalled BA's 747 stopped in either LAX or PHX prior to the long haul to London.

No, even only half filled it would need a tech stop somewhere.

British Caledonian was the originator of London-San Diego, originally doing it with a DC-10. British flew this route with a DC-10 for a while, then switched it to a 747-400. Both B-Cal and BA flew it via LAX, but BA switched it to Phoenix at a later point.

When I moved to San Diego in June, 1999, the routing was LGW-PHX-SAN, flown by a 747-436. It was with mixed emotions that about two years later, it was being switched to a 777 - of course I wanted both!! Asking me to choose between my two favorite Boeing big boys is like asking a mother to choose her favorite child...but the 747 was gone, and so was the technical stop at PHX. It was now LGW-SAN non-stop, and that was later changed to LHR-SAN.

After 9/11, the daily flight was reduced to five days a week. One year at school my prep period was during the time period the flight would arrive. I used to track on the internet (when I had time), and when it got close, I'd go out and look for it. Even in National City, some 15 miles away, these beauties at 2,000 to 3,000 NEVER failed to take my breath away.

I still get emotional when I look into the sky hoping against hope to see something big and beautiful gliding in. I am still in mourning at the loss of our big-boy wide body service. Biggest now is 767's to ATL (DL) and HNL (HA). I

If I live to be 115, I hope I never lose my absolute awe over watching these big boys so casually glide in...I still have the same reaction I did when I was 7 and saw a Pan Am 747 take-off and wondered "how the heck do they DO that?"  cloudnine 


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RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:22 am
by smitty747
Does anybody have any updates on the arrival time for this aircraft? I am considering headed down to SAN and trying to get some pics. Thanx!!

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:54 am
by FLY777UAL
Gorgeous pictures! I always remember going out to the end of the hill at school to watch the BA 777 barely launch itself over Point Loma usually around 4:20pm...then watch it circle around to the left on its way to LHR.

Definitely going to be there today to watch JAL!

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:48 am
by Coronado990
Quoting Smitty747 (Reply 5):
Does anybody have any updates on the arrival time for this aircraft? I am considering headed down to SAN and trying to get some pics.

Well, let's think this out. Japan won last night and will play in the finals Monday night so probably will not leave until Tuesday. A Miami Air Int'l was ferried in early this morning from FLL and I have to guess this is for the Dominican team. The burning question remains...how do the Koreans get back. Death by a thousand Saabs thru LAX?

I see no inbound JAL flights at this point and it may not come in until the team is ready to leave. I can't see them having a 747 on the ground that long.

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:23 am
by Trvlr
Looks like there is a JAL 744 coming to SAN...in about an hour and a half (11:45am).

Flytecomm says:

Airline Japan Airlines
Flight Number 8805
Departure City (Airport) Los Angeles, CA (LAX)
Departure Time 03/19/2006 11:21 AM
Arrival City (Airport) San Diego, CA (SAN)
Arrival Time 03/19/2006 11:46 AM
Remaining Flight Time 00:25 (planned)
Aircraft Type Boeing 747-400
Current Altitude 0 feet
Current Groundspeed 0 mph
Flight Status Planned

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:45 am
by Coronado990
Quoting Trvlr (Reply 8):
Looks like there is a JAL 744 coming to SAN...in about an hour and a half (11:45am).

Sure enough....I better get on my trolley!!!

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:48 am
by AirCop
Korea arrived in Phoenix on a JAL 747 at the start of the tournment. He had two JAL 747 on March 6th.

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:52 am
by Coronado990
Quoting Aircop (Reply 10):
Korea arrived in Phoenix on a JAL 747 at the start of the tournment. He had two JAL 747

So this one could very well be for the Korean team and we can expect another one in a couple of days? I like it.

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:59 am
by san747
Flightaware and Flytecomm now say its on its way, due to arrive in about 20 minutes:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/JAL8805

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:00 am
by FLY777UAL
She looked great!!

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:50 am
by Lostintime
Quoting Aircop (Reply 3):
Just a question. Will the 747 be able to fly to Japan non-stop from SAN? As I recalled BA's 747 stopped in either LAX or PHX prior to the long haul to London.

From flightaware it looks like they are going nonstop to Narita from San Diego

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/JAL8805

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:51 am
by FLY777UAL
Quoting Lostintime (Reply 14):
From flightaware it looks like they are going nonstop to Narita from San Diego

Must be because they are so lightly loaded...they just tore over my house...incredible!

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:05 am
by ERAU Pilot
So does anyone know how many people were on board? It feeds the debate whether a 744 can get to NRT non stop from SAN with a profitable load.

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:43 am
by Silver1SWA
Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 11):
So this one could very well be for the Korean team and we can expect another one in a couple of days? I like it.

Yes, this JAL 744 was a charter for the Korean team. Word is, another JAL 744 is due on Tuesday for the Japanese team.

I just got home from work. I missed the landing because I was busy working in a bin, but I checked it out at the gate and then stuck around after my shift to see her take off. It was awesome! Got some pics. Hopefully they get through the queue...

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:03 am
by DCAYOW
Quoting ERAU pilot (Reply 16):
So does anyone know how many people were on board? It feeds the debate whether a 744 can get to NRT non stop from SAN with a profitable load.

It won't feed any such debate, the flight was less than 50% full and had NO cargo whatsoever.

This thread is a continuation of thread started last week -- here is the link
RE: Interesting Charters Into SAN Today (3/14) (by Nicksair Mar 17 2006 in Civil Aviation)#ID2663249

The next JAL charter will arrive on Tuesday.

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:35 pm
by centrair
Quoting Aircop (Reply 3):
Will the 747 be able to fly to Japan non-stop from SAN? As I recalled BA's 747 stopped in either LAX or PHX prior to the long haul to London.



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 4):
No, even only half filled it would need a tech stop somewhere.

If a 744 can fly LAX-ICN with full loads and Cargo, why not SAN-NRT?

LAX-ICN 5209nm
SAN-NRT 4829nm
LAX-NRT 4737nm

I guess that 95nm extra is really a killer for the 744 eh?

Yes I know the winds going north are not fun and in the winter there is a strong headwind. But still...95nm difference.

Maybe the BA flights from PHX and SAN stopped at LAX to pick up passengers. What is the use of flying 95nm for a "tech stop"?

By this it means that CO can't fly EWR-HKG (7009nm) with a 777 year round (limitations).
But more importantly...If JL needs a tech-stop for SAN-NRT, NW and UA cannot fly ORD/MSP/DTW-NRT at 5452nm/5170nm/5559nm year round with 744s. And AA could NEVER do DFW-NRT (5585nm )x2 daily with a 777. Forget ATL-NRT (5953nm) daily on DL using a 777.

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:39 pm
by hawaiian717
Quoting Centrair (Reply 19):
If a 744 can fly LAX-ICN with full loads and Cargo, why not SAN-NRT?

SAN's shorter runway. It's not long enough to allow a 747 to depart with enough fuel to carry a profitable payload on a transcontinental flight. The 777 is able to get off a shorter runway with a heavy load than the 747, and thus was able to perform SAN-LGW nonstop while the 747 cannot. Today's JAL flight can do nonstop SAN-NRT because as DCAYOW noted, it was rather lightly loaded.

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:47 pm
by Carpethead
I am having a difficult time imagining the Korean baseball team going back to Korea on a JL plane. Did KE or OZ not have a 777/744 available? Even KE's A332 or OZ's 763 can do it too.
It would be really funny if the Korean baseball team takes out its anger on the JL plane and trashes up the interior.

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:06 pm
by ktachiya
Quoting Carpethead (Reply 21):
funny if the Korean baseball team takes out its anger on the JL plane and trashes up the interior

I think this is quite likely knowing how agressive people can get when it comes to baseball.

No idea why KE won't fly the Korean charter. Why JAL?

Does anyone have the regs

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:13 pm
by PanAm747
Quote:
I think this is quite likely knowing how agressive people can get when it comes to baseball.

Actually, the crowds at Saturday's game at Petco Park were extraordinarily respectful and polite to both the each other and their host country. Only problem was with smokers, as Petco Park is completely smoke free on the whole grounds.

Good group!! Come back anytime  bigthumbsup 

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:19 pm
by Magoonis
does any one have any pics???
magoonis aka Mark

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:05 pm
by Silver1SWA
I have plenty of pics. I uploaded one so far...

Wish me luck!



[Edited 2006-03-20 06:11:06]

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:17 pm
by DCAYOW
Quoting Centrair (Reply 19):
I guess that 95nm extra is really a killer for the 744 eh?

No more like a 350 ft. hill approximately 1 mile from end of the runway.

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:23 pm
by lindy field
Wow - great to see that bird in SAN! Some of the other local spotters got good photos of it on approach and will be uploading them to a.net. Did any of you get photos of the other charters that have come in over the last few days? (Allegiant, TACA, Midwest, Miami Air, etc.)

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:29 am
by hawaiian717
I was able to get the two Allegiant aircraft that were in Friday morning. I was also there early enough to get the Kitty Hawk 737 arriving. Big grin

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:23 pm
by skyharborshome
Top of the 9th and is a great game with Japan leading by one, make that two. If they can hold on, should be a party flight back to Tokyo. Does anyone have the flight info for the JAL coming in tomorrow? I am on vacation in San Diego and might sneak over for my first a.net picture. Who is flying the Cuba team to Havana?

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:17 pm
by lindy field
Looks like Taca is coming in tomorrow at 6:02AM from Havana to pick up the Cubans. Guess they didn't want waste any time before leaving town...

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:23 pm
by N1120A
Quoting Centrair (Reply 19):
If a 744 can fly LAX-ICN with full loads and Cargo, why not SAN-NRT?

SAN's runway is not only only 9600 feet long, it takes off straight into Point Loma. It basically turns the runway into no more than 8000 feet.

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 25):
I have plenty of pics. I uploaded one so far...

Wish me luck!

With a great shot like that, you don't need luck

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:38 pm
by Coronado990
Quoting Centrair (Reply 19):
If a 744 can fly LAX-ICN with full loads and Cargo, why not SAN-NRT?

Please open the below link and you will see what the 747-400 was heading towards prior to rotation...

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2006...ws/top_stories/22_17_483_11_06.txt

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:20 am
by Coronado990
Here she comes again....

Airline Japan Airlines
Flight Number 8805
Departure City (Airport) Los Angeles, CA (LAX)
Departure Time 03/21/2006 11:57 AM
Arrival City (Airport) San Diego, CA (SAN)
Arrival Time 03/21/2006 12:22 PM
Remaining Flight Time 00:25 (planned)
Aircraft Type Boeing 747-400
Current Altitude 0 feet
Current Groundspeed 0 mph
Flight Status Planned

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:29 am
by christao17
Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 32):
Please open the below link and you will see what the 747-400 was heading towards prior to rotation...

That definitely puts it in perspective.

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:05 am
by Mason
So, are the aircraft limited more by the runway length or by the terrain or both? What about on the other end (departing 09)? Is this ever done? Occationally, aircraft approach LAX over the ocean and land on the 6/7s.

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:30 am
by Tom in NO
Quoting Mason (Reply 35):
What about on the other end (departing 09)? Is this ever done?

There are also terrain issues on the east end.....as well as a very controversial 6-odd story parking garage that was built just off the end of the runway. That's why the 27 approach end of the runway is displaced as far down the runway as it is.

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Tom at MSY

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:25 am
by 1011
The JAL 744 is back. It is going from SAN to Tokyo Narita. It leaves about 2:50pm on Tues and the Flight number is JAL 8805. So anybody near SAN, check it out. Wonder how much rwy it will use! Shall be cool!

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:55 am
by vapar8
PHX was not a tech stop for the 747 400. They did pick up pax there and they still have the London to PHX flight.

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:30 am
by Boeing7E7
Quoting Centrair (Reply 19):
If a 744 can fly LAX-ICN with full loads and Cargo, why not SAN-NRT?

You lose roughly 955' for a 747-400 based on the climb gradient and accelerate stop distance available. The smaller the aircraft, the better the climb performance, the less the penalty.

Quoting Mason (Reply 35):
So, are the aircraft limited more by the runway length or by the terrain or both?

Both. Terrain takes away runway length based on climb performance. The 9,400' length isn't enough for full range with a full load to begin with for a 747. Almost every aircraft over 150 seats takes some sort of penalty at SAN anywhere from 800 to 1,000', headed East... you lose between 2,000' and 3,000' of runway depending on aircraft performance - this affects range for 737-800s and Airbus 320's and larger.

Quoting Tom in NO (Reply 36):
That's why the 27 approach end of the runway is displaced as far down the runway as it is.

Actually, it's displaced because of trees and a building in Balboa Park. 27 has a 20:1 approach surface vs. a 34:1 surface - one of the airports major downfalls when the weather takes a dumper - this raises the minima, runway 9 has a 34:1 with noted obstructions. For a precision ILS with a standard 3 degree glideslop, the 34:1 has to be clear at both ends. There is a new 62.5:1 precision departure surface going into effect in 2008 for commercial airports. It will be interesting to see what this does to SAN, right penalties are based on a 40:1 surface. The parking lot was built long after the displacement, and up to the height limit already established. If you look at the PAPI in the picture, you'll see the photo was taken in line with the the approach slope and the building is offset. The minima are also raised at both approach ends due to rising terrain and aircraft clean up and climb requirements. This is also why visibility is 1 mile vs. 1/2 mile for 9 even though the airport has touchdown and centerline lights. The addition of those runway lights brings down the decision height minima by about 50', without them, SAN couldn't have a precision approach to any minimum. SAN has all but the approach lights for CAT II, even used to have an ALSF-1 to runway 9 in the 70's. Its visual "lighting credit" to offset the what would otherwise be VFR minimums.

For SAN to get an ILS vs. localizer into 27 with a 200 foot decision height, the threshold would have to shift about 3,000 to the west leaving 4,600 landing.

Quoting Vapar8 (Reply 38):
PHX was not a tech stop for the 747 400. They did pick up pax there and they still have the London to PHX flight.

The 747-400 can reach Iceland from SAN, a bit shor of europe. PHX was the stop selected for the leg.

[Edited 2006-03-22 02:52:19]

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:03 am
by HeeseokKoo
Quoting Carpethead (Reply 21):
I am having a difficult time imagining the Korean baseball team going back to Korea on a JL plane. Did KE or OZ not have a 777/744 available? Even KE's A332 or OZ's 763 can do it too.
It would be really funny if the Korean baseball team takes out its anger on the JL plane and trashes up the interior.

WBC prepared and paid all charters, maybe JL bidded cheapest. After Asian preliminary match at Japan, Korean team left Narita to US on JL, too. Coath and manager were offered first class and all players took business class.

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:12 pm
by Carpethead
JL 8805, the Japanese baseball charter back to Japan returned via LAX. ETA @NRT is 1915.

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 40):

Thanks for the info. JL has extra 747s because of the recent cut back in service I suppose. Since they were only going to sit in NRT, why not do some legs to the US & Korea.

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:16 pm
by APFPilot1985
what airline did the cuban team get around on? Who flew them back to HAV, anyone know?

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:28 pm
by hawaiian717
Quoting Carpethead (Reply 41):
JL 8805, the Japanese baseball charter back to Japan returned via LAX. ETA @NRT is 1915.

FlightAware shows it doing SAN-NRT nonstop, as they did with the Korean team. It flew into SAN from LAX:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/JAL8805

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 42):
what airline did the cuban team get around on? Who flew them back to HAV, anyone know?

They flew SAN-HAV on a TACA A320:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/TAI8203

RE: JAL 747 To SAN....Baseball Charter

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:29 pm
by Carpethead
There must be a huge crowd awaiting Team Japan when it arrives in NRT. Unlike, in the US where there are some FBO's capable of handling int'l flights; the celebrities have to go through common immigrations/customs facilities.

Quoting Hawaiian717 (Reply 43):

You are correct, it is a SAN-NRT non-stop. The flight originated in LAX.
I misinterpreted the NRT arrival board.