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BR076
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Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:43 am

this has probably asked before but I could not find it so I ask again  Smile
Why is China airlines called China airlines? it's a Taiwanese based airline and we all know that China and Taiwan are not excactly best friends. so why not Taiwan airlines ?
ú
 
prosa
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:46 am

Taiwan's government considers itself the legitimate government of China.
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PM
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:49 am

Because Taiwan considers itself to be the 'real' China and the country governed from Beijing is illegal. For comparison, the USA is an independent country because Britain signed a peace treaty in 1783 and gave up its claim to the Thirteen Colonies. The Guomindang government in Taiwan never recognised Beijing in the same way. Hence, the government in Taipei is the 'official' China (in their eyes).
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:51 am

Quoting PROSA (Reply 1):
Taiwan's government considers itself the legitimate government of China.

Actually not really anymore. This might have been true during Chiang Kai-Chek's rule and as long as the Goumintang (who mostly came from mainland China and had to flee from the Communists) ruled, but AFAIK, over the last 20 or so years Taiwan has decidedly build up an independent mentality and, if not for China's threats of invasion and American cautioning, the Taiwanese might as well declare independence.

But back to the original question:
China Airlines was founded when the Taiwanese government still considered itself to be the legal, but exiled, government of whole China.

Jan
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iluv747400
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:25 am

The official name of Taiwan is the Republic of China (ROC).
 
BR076
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:52 am

So why doesn't Taiwan invade China than and remove the false government  Smile
ú
 
superhub
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:46 am

Quoting BR076 (Reply 5):
So why doesn't Taiwan invade China than and remove the false government

I have always wondered what would happen if Taiwan politicians talk about that publicly. I would imagine it would turn into a huge crisis. At the moment, there is only public talk about independence, but not independence + take over PRC, and talk about the former has already caused an outcry already.

China Airlines should be changed to Taiwan Airlines. It often gets confused with Air China to an average person. With the poor safety records of China Airlines, it often hurts the image of Air China too.
 
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breiz
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:55 am

After WWII, the two Chinas were nicknamed ChiCom and ChiNat.
Let you guess which one is Taiwan.
 
supa7E7
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:36 am

Quoting Superhub (Reply 6):
I have always wondered what would happen if Taiwan politicians talk about that publicly.

They don't even think about that anymore. Although Taiwan has lots of military equipment, to take over China would be beyond even the USA's ability, it is fair to say.

Still, to take over Taiwan would be no simple matter for China. Taiwan is much better armed than Iraq for example. So the two sisters are locked in ambiguity, maybe forever.
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sw733
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:47 am

Quoting BR076 (Reply 5):
So why doesn't Taiwan invade China than and remove the false government

It's not really a false government. The One-China Policy, which the USA and most other nations, plus international organization's such as the UN recognize, clearly states that "there is only one China, and Taiwan is a part of it". This has been the view of, for example, the US government since Nixon announced the Shanghai Communique in 1972 and the US moved its embassy from Taipei to Beijing in 1979. As far as about 97% of the worlds governments and IO's are concerned, it is the ROC that is the false government, and the PRC which is the legitimate one.

As for being called China Airlines...as mentioned earlier, the official name of Taiwan is the ROC, and Taiwanese call themselves Mainland China. I don't see them ever changing their name to Taiwan Airlines for various reasons...1) That would be giving up on the view, held especially by the Pan-Green Coalition and Democratic Progressive Party of Taiwan (which currently controls the Presidency) that Taiwan IS China, and 2) it is simply too hard and pointless to change an airlines name. Unless you're Valujet...

[Edited 2006-03-19 23:48:41]
 
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:08 am

Quoting Superhub (Reply 6):
So why doesn't Taiwan invade China than and remove the false government

I surely hope this never happens. Most likely what would happen, though, if it ever does happen, is mainland China invading Taiwan to overthrow the Taiwanese government. As of late, mainland China has always considered Taiwan as part of their country, just like Tibet. Except, Tibet has less military power/international support to confront mainland China.

In my opinion, this could very well start WWIII. I hope that never happens, EVER!
 
drexotica
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:14 am

Quoting Breiz (Reply 7):
After WWII, the two Chinas were nicknamed ChiCom and ChiNat.

Possibly in France. In the US, it was China and Red China.
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NumberTwelve
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:17 am

Quoting Drexotica (Reply 11):
Possibly in France. In the US, it was China and Red China.

As Breiz wrote, they were nicknamed - means: not official. So lots of people don't know the nicks.
So for you Taiwan was called "China"? In Germany we always use(d) to say Taiwan (or very old people called it Formosa). But no difference between China and Red China.
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atmx2000
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:28 am

Quoting BR076 (Reply 5):
So why doesn't Taiwan invade China than and remove the false government



Quoting Superhub (Reply 6):
I have always wondered what would happen if Taiwan politicians talk about that publicly. I would imagine it would turn into a huge crisis. At the moment, there is only public talk about independence, but not independence + take over PRC, and talk about the former has already caused an outcry already.

20 to 1500 population ratio. I think the folks in Bejing would be  rotfl 

Quoting Breiz (Reply 7):
After WWII, the two Chinas were nicknamed ChiCom and ChiNat.
Let you guess which one is Taiwan.

It took a little bit more time for Nationalists to flee to Taiwan.
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PanAm747
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:29 am

Interestingly, both governments consider themselves the sole true leadership of China, and both governments consider Taiwan an important province of China.

And as both consider themselves the legitimate government of China, both countries use the prefix B- on their airplanes:


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MEA-707
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:39 am

I guess in a few years Taiwan and mainland China discover there is not much difference between their capitalist/authoritarian systems anymore and only losing face will prohibit a merger/return of Taiwan into China.
Back to Civil Aviation, that's also the reason both Taiwan and China insist in using B- as prefix. To avoid further confusion, in the last 10 years Taiwan has 5 numbers (like B-11150), China 4 numbers (like B-2918)
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flyinghippo
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:53 am

There has been "suggestions" to change China Airlines to "Taiwan Airlines" or "Formosa Airlines", to better identify Taiwan's flag carrier to TAIWAN instead of CHINA. Also, when President of Taiwan visits internationally, it doesn't look good to see the president of Taiwan walking down from "CHINA" Airlines...
 
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:55 am

I think it would have been rich had Major handed Hong Kong over to ROC instead of the PRC.

Also, for what it's worth, for years, many goods that said "Made in China" were from ROC, not PRC. Lately, though, they tend to say "Made in Taiwan."
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TPEcanuck
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:02 am

Quoting SW733 (Reply 9):
1) That would be giving up on the view, held especially by the Pan-Green Coalition and Democratic Progressive Party of Taiwan (which currently controls the Presidency) that Taiwan IS China,

I always enjoy politics, even in aviation. However, the above is patently false. The Dem. Progressive Party certainly does not in any way/shape/form view Taiwan as part of China! In their view, Taiwan is Taiwan.

Quoting SW733 (Reply 9):
2) it is simply too hard and pointless to change an airlines name

Actually...keep posted to this website! Rumour has it that in fact CI IS going to be changing name...very shortly. There was an article in this Sunday's Taipei Times suggesting that. We shall see.
 
tjc2
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:50 am

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 15):
and only losing face will prohibit a merger/return of Taiwan into China

Unfortunately, this is what neither of them will do unless they really, really have to.

As far as i can remember from 10 years of living in Hong Kong, Chinese People can't stand loosing face. So on a national Scale, it's not going to happen.

Don't get me wrong, I am not racist and i have a fair few Chinese friends. It's just like the english getting drunk at footie matches in Europe etc..

On the aviation side, i always wondered why there is an Air China and a China Airlines. I thought this disscusion was someone playing the obvious game, but it has actually been quite informative. cheers...

[Edited 2006-03-20 18:51:50]
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flyinghippo
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:23 am

Quoting TPEcanuck (Reply 18):
Actually...keep posted to this website! Rumour has it that in fact CI IS going to be changing name...very shortly. There was an article in this Sunday's Taipei Times suggesting that. We shall see.

Actually, the president of CI has stated there are no plans to change CI's name, since CI has made strides in safty and received several recognitions for their services.
 
sw733
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:32 am

Quoting TPEcanuck (Reply 18):
I always enjoy politics, even in aviation. However, the above is patently false. The Dem. Progressive Party certainly does not in any way/shape/form view Taiwan as part of China! In their view, Taiwan is Taiwan.

Sorry, what I meant to come off as saying is not that Taiwan is part of China, but that Taiwan is in fact the sole, legitimate China and that the PRC is not. I kinda know what I am talking about, my major is Chinese politics, but I'm not too good at writing what I mean  Wink But than again, seeing as you are FROM Taiwan, I am sure you know a lot more than me! As for about the name, very interesting, I shall indeed keep my eyes and ears open, thanks.
 
trex8
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:57 am

Quoting Superhub (Reply 6):
China Airlines should be changed to Taiwan Airlines. It often gets confused with Air China to an average person. With the poor safety records of China Airlines, it often hurts the image of Air China too.

like CAAC, Air China's (and all other mainland Chinese airlines) predecessor had a great safety record?????? Of course back then if they crashed in China you never heard about it!

why should China Airlines change its name, they were there first , while all the mainland airlines were still a government entity- CAAC. Plus it would certainly not be in the PRCs political interests to make them change and "dilute" the Chineseness of Taiwan!
Whichever side of the political spectrum you are on the facts remain, the PRC has never for one nanosecond of its near 56 year history governed the province of Taiwan. The ROC may have been booted off the mainalnd but it was the de jure and till then de facto government of all China.
And why do we in the west accept a totalitarian communist dictatorship as the legitimate government of a country where they overthrew an admittedly corrupt regime, which at least in theory espoused a democratic system, to only replace it with a equally corrupt regime today which while embracing capitalism does not embrace democracy???

[Edited 2006-03-20 20:13:25]
 
Trvlr
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:05 am

Ironically, the People's Republic of China would probably have more of a problem with CI renaming itself "Taiwan Airlines" etc, because that would be an officialization (albeit a minor one) of Taiwan's status as an independent state.

Hence, the status quo stays. The ROC doesn't consider itself the "legitimate government of all of China" anymore, but moving away from said status quo (in any direction) would only inflame the situation, so the island generally tries to keep things the way they are.

Aaron G.
 
superhub
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:03 am

Quoting Tjc2 (Reply 19):
As far as i can remember from 10 years of living in Hong Kong, Chinese People can't stand loosing face. So on a national Scale, it's not going to happen.

Couldn't agree more. Chinese cannot lose face. It's amazing what they would do so that they don't lose face.

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 22):
like CAAC, Air China's (and all other mainland Chinese airlines) predecessor had a great safety record?????? Of course back then if they crashed in China you never heard about it!

True. CAAC did not have a great safety record. From 1976 - 1985, they have had 6 fatal crashes which involved USSR-made aircrafts and Hawker Siddeley Tridents. There may be more as you said but people certainly would know about it if they did crash in China. China was not as bad as you think. However, Air China (the modern version of CAAC, loosely speaking) had only one fatal accident since its inception. That one was in Pusan, South Korea in 2002 and involved a Boeing 767. That is a huge improvement from CAAC. And nowadays, there is no way China can hide air crashes.

China Airlines, on the other hand suffered 1 fatal accident from 1976-1985. After 1985, it suffered 8 fatal accidents..all of which involves Airbus/Boeing/MD aircrafts. Given the reliability of western aircrafts, the rate of accidents are pretty poor.

Most people tend to remember modern events rather than history. And modern day events, unfortunately does not favour China Airlines. Most of their crashes involve high-profile cities like HKG, TPE, and Nagoya which leaves them with a lot of negative publicity. Yes, there have been crashes involving PRC airlines in mainland China, but most of the crashes occur at less important cities.

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 22):
Whichever side of the political spectrum you are on the facts remain, the PRC has never for one nanosecond of its near 56 year history governed the province of Taiwan.

Unless the PRC turns into a democracy? The Hu Jintao era is actually a lot softer than the Jiang Zemin era. Who knows? Maybe 30-40 years China will become a democracy.

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 22):
And why do we in the west accept a totalitarian communist dictatorship as the legitimate government of a country where they overthrew an admittedly corrupt regime, which at least in theory espoused a democratic system, to only replace it with a equally corrupt regime today which while embracing capitalism does not embrace democracy???

Because when President Nixon visited China in 1972, the Kuomintang in Taiwan were as corrupt as China. The Kuomintang only began to adopt a more democratic system after it got kicked out of the UN in 1971. By the time some significant democratic progress was made in the 1980s, the world has become obsessed with China's economic opening.

Unfortunately, money does play a big part in politics. Imagine if the US announced they recognise Taiwan as the legitimate government of China? I think a lot of big US firms will not like that. Both Clinton and Bush have been very hardline towards China during their election campaigns, but as they got into office, they became a lot softer partly because of China's economic importance to the US.

As I said before, the PRC may not be democratic...but changes have happened since the Mao Zedong era. For example, some villages now elect their leaders. And as the hardliners in the CCP die off, you will gradually see a younger generation of Chinese leaders who will begin the democracy process.
 
planespotting
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:41 am

Does Taiwan pay any like..........taxes...or have any democratic relations with China...?

Are there a lot of flights from Taipei to Beijing or anything like that? This situation intrigues me...I'm off to wikipedia!
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nzrich
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:10 am

This reminds me of a story that happened in Sydney .. Two passengers were booked on China Airlines to Auckland but ended up boarding Air China bound for China .. Passengers never realised till it became a very long flight (usually about 3 hrs to AKL NZ) .. Were then arrested in China and spent time in jail untill returned to SYD.. All because of the similar names of Air China and China Airlines..
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malaysia
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:48 am

Quoting BR076 (Reply 5):
So why doesn't Taiwan invade China than and remove the false government Smile

That comic policy was eventually disbanded, but it was set by beloved Chiang Kai-Shek that one day the ROC army would build up and prepare to re-take the Mainland.

I am surpised someone here wondered about HKG being handed over to the ROC, actually the contracts were made with the ROC to return the lease, not the PROC. but that never went through technically.

China Airlines is based on the ROC, Taiwan is set as "Taiwan, ROC" as Taiwan is a province of the ROC, has its own provincial government, and the national goverment is located in Taiwan.

I still recognize the ROC as the legitimate government of China.
and China Airlines as the official carrier of China.
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alexchao
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:50 am

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 25):
Does Taiwan pay any like..........taxes...or have any democratic relations with China...?

Nope.

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 25):
Are there a lot of flights from Taipei to Beijing or anything like that? This situation intrigues me...I'm off to wikipedia!

Nope. In reality, there aren't any direct air services between Taiwan and China.

Quoting Nzrich (Reply 26):
This reminds me of a story that happened in Sydney .. Two passengers were booked on China Airlines to Auckland but ended up boarding Air China bound for China .. Passengers never realised till it became a very long flight (usually about 3 hrs to AKL NZ) .. Were then arrested in China and spent time in jail untill returned to SYD.. All because of the similar names of Air China and China Airlines..

This must have been a long time ago, because I don't think CI flies to AKL. Interesting story, and I hope it doesn't happen anymore!  Smile
 
superhub
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:10 am

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 25):
Does Taiwan pay any like..........taxes...or have any democratic relations with China...?

Oh, no..they don't pay taxes to PRC. They will never pay taxes to the Communists. Relationship between PRC and Taiwan is a bit like North and South Korea, or a little bit like US and Cuba (except China acts a little like the US in terms of size and Taiwan acts a little like Cuba in size...but not in political systems.)

As for diplomatic relations, no they don't have any formal diplomatic relationship, but many informal ones (many of which are probably under-the-table).


As for flights from Taiwan to China. At the moment, there are no direct flights to China. In fact, Taiwan carriers are banned in China, and China carriers are banned in Taiwan. Hence, HKG acts as a hub for Taiwan-China travels. As HKG is a Special Administrative Region, it is not technically under PRC laws. Hence, carriers from both China and Taiwan can land at HKG. And Hong Kong airlines such as CX and KA can fly to both China and Taiwan.

One exception to this has been on Chinese New Years. I believe two years ago, China Airlines was allowed to fly to China on the Chinese New Years holidays to pick up Taiwan businessmen from China. However, the aircraft had to make a stop in HKG too before entering Mainland China. I believe it has been like this since then. However, there have been talks about allowing non-stop flights during CNY in the future, but nothing substantial has come of it.

It has been feared that if non-stop flights are allowed from Taiwan and China, HKG, CX and KA will lose a signicant amount of passengers.

[Edited 2006-03-21 03:20:39]

[Edited 2006-03-21 03:21:58]
 
alexchao
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:59 pm

Quoting Superhub (Reply 29):
It has been feared that if non-stop flights are allowed from Taiwan and China, HKG, CX and KA will lose a signicant amount of passengers.

It's interesting because China is opening all routes to Hong Kong carriers. So, CX and KA will have expanded access to China, and I think they can use that to their advantage before flights are authorized between Taiwan and China.
 
nzrich
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:45 pm

Quoting Alexchao (Reply 28):
This must have been a long time ago, because I don't think CI flies to AKL. Interesting story, and I hope it doesn't happen anymore!  

Yes was quite a while ago cant remember when i believe it made the news on tv..
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lapper
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:27 pm

Always reminds me of a question someone asked years ago when I first started in travel.

"What's the difference between Air China and China Airlines?"
To which some bright spark replied:
"China Airlines has Made in Taiwan on the back!"

Seriously, wasn't the reason Mandarin Airlines was created was because some governments didn't want to be seen co-operating with China Airlines and the Taiwan government?

Quoting Breiz (Reply 7):
the two Chinas

Careful, President Jack Ryan in a Tom Clancy made that mistake, got flamed for it!
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:46 pm

China (PRC's) reali interest in Taiwan lies in the fact that China's historical wealth all lies in Taiwanese vaults.

In reality the WW2, Japanese, Civil War and 1950's Cultural Revolution all wiped out China's ancient history, Chiang Kai-Shek as he retreated looted the country's assets, boxed them and shipped then to Taiwan.

So when you visit Chinese musuems / historical sites.. often all thats there is empty rooms, pictures, wall plaques (or sometimes tibetan artifacts).
but goto the National Musuem in Taipei, they claim they could change the exhibition every day for 60 years and still not show everything.

Taiwan has considerable other material wealth, hence the US's protection in the first place.

China (all of it inc HK, Taiwan, Tibet inc) is one of the most amazing countries on earth and most different.

You cannot fly from Taiwan to anywhere in PRC China direct. most people connect in Hong Kong. Until a few years ago EVA Air couldnt overfly china and as such did a refuel stop in Bangkok when flying to Europe.

At the same time to avoid upsetting the Chinese, airspace rules and confusion etc, European carriers opened a second sub-airline for flights to Taiwan (KLM Asia, BA Asia etc)

Only recently have Taiwanese been allowed to travel, and less than that to be able to travel to china.

Currency is very similar 100TW$ is very like 100Yuan, as is support for Sun Yatsen who features on both. Chinese Visa say's "Peoples Republic of China", Taiwan's Visa says "Republic of China".

My guess is with China's growing importance, China will prevail over Taiwan, though I doubt there'll be a war.
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PEK18R36L
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:32 pm

Quoting Superhub (Reply 29):
One exception to this has been on Chinese New Years. I believe two years ago, China Airlines was allowed to fly to China on the Chinese New Years holidays to pick up Taiwan businessmen from China. However, the aircraft had to make a stop in HKG too before entering Mainland China. I believe it has been like this since then.

Very close, but not entirely accurate. During Chinese New Year in 2005 there were a series of flights between major Chinese cities wherein the aircraft were supposed to pass through HK airspace enroute to Taiwan. Ostensibly, such flightplans were followed, but in reality many of the flights simply skirted the very edge of HK airspace.

There were a couple of flights, in fact, that were unusually short in duration for the flight plans they were supposed to follow. There was considerable commentary during the event on China Central Television and Phoenix TV about it all, which we here followed with huge interest.

In theory, all of these flights were charters, but they were not limited to businessmen - indeed, there were PLENTY of tourists getting off the planes and smiling happily at the cameras.

There are large but relatively silent factions here in Beijing (I wouldn't presume to speak for Taipei) who are in strong favor of setting up direct air and sea links with Taiwan. Regardless of the windfall to KA and CX, the current system is wasteful and is an impediment to commerce. Unfortunately, there are also those who are happy with the arms-length relationship and who remain quite mistrustful of their counterparts across the straits, so this is unlikely to change anytime soon.

All of this will really start to get interesting with the 2008 elections in Taiwan. Theoretically, Taiwan has a chance to pull off some pretty provocative changes while China gussies up for the Beijing Olympiad. On the other hand, the KMT mayor of Taipei (who apparently favors ending the talk about either independence or unification and just trying to "get along" with the Mainland) may well play on voter fatigue with the Chen's constant dragon-baiting. Completely aside from whatever other implications this may have, a president seeking to dampen cross-straits tensions could point the way to the opening of direct scheduled air service.

David
In China, everything is possible - but nothing is easy.
 
KGAI
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:50 pm

Actually, Taiwanese carriers are now allowed to overfly Chinese airspace on their way to Europe. This actually came about because the Taiwanese government opened up Chinese airspace to Taiwanese carriers, not the other way around.

The Chinese government has indicated that they are ready to allow direct flights between Taiwan and China, as soon as Taiwan lifts its direct flight ban (imposed for "national security" reasons).

Meanwhile, Shanghai-Taipei thru Hong Kong continues to be an 8 hour ordeal, instead of the 1 1/2 hour direct flight that it should be.
 
chiawei
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RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:04 am

Totally untrue.

The only way that Chinese government will allow Taiwan to fly directly to china would be for taiwan to officially give up its country and negotiate as a province.

There is no ban on the taiwanese side on the direct flight. The whole issue with normalizing the relationship is not possible because China insist that Taiwan sit down as a province instead of a country.

The current taiwanese government does not really think it is china. The thought are what remaining of KMT era propaganda. The whole reason that ROC can't change its name to Taiwan or ROT or change the name of airline (although DPP gov't has been thinking of renaming CI to Taiwan Airlines) is simply because the barbaric chinese and its government will not allow ROC to change its name. Barbaric China's claim over taiwan as a province is legitimized by barbarian government in china because of name China in ROC.

Couple years ago, Barbarian in china threaten to use force to take over taiwan after DPP goverment added Taiwan to the passport.

ROC and people in taiwan have no choice in change the country name because of barbarian's pressure on international scene. This also applies to CI, which is partially owned by the government in Taiwan.

Given a choice, does anyone here think people in taiwan would be happy to have our flag carrier carries the name of our enemy, who is only interested in taking over our land.

The fact is that Taiwan has been underminded by Barbarian in china that refuse to allow Taiwan to change its name, join world organization (for example, Taiwan was banned from Avian Flu summit this year), have any kind of formal diplomatic ties with international community.

The pan green government has to play the view that Taiwan is ROC, simply because if ROC is dismissed entirely. China will invade Taiwan as barbarian views any removal of china is an act of indep and reason for war. None of the pan green people buys into the china, but have to publicly stating that because we have over 500+ missle deployed in barbarian country on top taiwan's head.

This is the simple truth. There is no ban on direct flight between the two country except china wants Taiwan to bow down and negotiate as a province. (this is just like asking england to bow down and acknoledge itself a province of US). Taiwan can't officially change its name of ROC because according to barbarian that is unilaterally declaration of indep and act of war.

This is what 23 million people in taiwan live everyday. A barbarian neighbor that want to take over your land every day, threaten you with military might and missles, barring you from joining any kind of world organization. Taiwan is a country that have no respect because barbarian neighbor uses it might to pressure taiwan to give up on daily basis.

So China airlines can't be changed even if everyone support it in taiwan, simply because the barbarian wouldn't allow it.
 
flyinghippo
Posts: 769
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:48 am

RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:51 am

Quoting Chiawei (Reply 36):
The whole reason that ROC can't change its name to Taiwan or ROT

I seriously hope Taiwan, if it ever renames itself, changes its name to ROT... just doesn't look or sound good in English.

Quoting Chiawei (Reply 36):
This is the simple truth. There is no ban on direct flight between the two country except china wants Taiwan to bow down and negotiate as a province.

This is not 100% true. It is true that China wants any cross-straight flights to be considered as "domestic" flights, but you have to go through customs and immigration. Kind of stupid in my opinion. Again, China and Taiwan is too worried about "losing face", while it's business (mostly Taiwanese) suffers.

The current ROC government do not want Taiwanese companies to invest in China at all, in fact, any company based in Taiwan cannot invest more than 40% of it's total assets in China, yet there is no such restriction if they want to invest in other countries. Taiwan also is the only country that do not recognize education diplomas from Chinese eductional institutions. (China do recognize Taiwanese eduction dimplomas)

Direct flights between China and Taiwan would greatly benefit Taiwan more than China. Hong Kong, and Korea's economy has increased in the recent years is because forign companies set up HQs there and invest in China (Due to it's less corrupt government, it's economy and it's laws. A lot of western companies are still very cautious when it comes to investing in China), since traveling to China from SEL or HKG is just a short hop away.

Taiwan has missed that opportunity because there are no direct flights between the two countries, and to a business minded person like myself, that is very sad to see.

As for CI renaming itself? CI is already doing that through its' subsidiary, AE. Infact, CI is in the process of repainting their leased A343 to AE's colors. Some speculate CI is doing that to transform itself way from "China Airlines" name, but CI states they're repainting the A343 for AE's growth plans. Sad... I love CI's colors a lot more than AE's colors.
 
trex8
Posts: 5616
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:11 pm

why do they keep the leased A343 in 3 class configuration, they used to use it to SYD but it seems its destined for HNL now.
 
KGAI
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:35 am

RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:40 pm

Wow Chiawei, take it easy there, is "Barbarians" your favorite word or what?

Quoting Chiawei (Reply 36):
There is no ban on the taiwanese side on the direct flight. The whole issue with normalizing the relationship is not possible because China insist that Taiwan sit down as a province instead of a country.

Direct flight talks do NOT equal normalization talks.
You're not even disagreeing with me here. You're saying the decision to negotiate is Taiwan's to make. It's just that China's terms for negotiations are so onerous as to make it impossible for Taiwan to sit down with them.

But is it? It is in fact still Taiwan's official position that it is a province of China! Just not necessarily the China under current communist rule. China doesn't dispute that stance. As long as Taiwan doesn't declare indepence, China can live with Taiwan being a part of "China" that's not actually their China.

I realize that Taiwan's official position is a forced one and that the ruling DPP party has been dreaming of independence for a long time. China has been exerting enormous pressure on Taiwan in the international arena for decades now. However, just because China doesn't want to see Taiwanese independence, it does not mean the Taiwanese people do either. There is no consensus on that issue even in Taiwan.

And just because the DPP can't get its wish of independence, it doesn't mean that it should just sulk and refuse to negotiate with China. The China that is the fastest growing economy in the world. The China that has undeniably deep cultural and economic ties with Taiwan. The China that more and more Taiwanese people are moving to in search of opportunities, and then relocating their families to.

If there were direct flights, then Taiwan might have a realistic chance of retaining its talent and foreign investments. The difference of direct flights to a China-Taiwan commute is the difference between US East Coast-US West Coast commute vs NYC-Washington DC commute. One is doable, the other is not. And more and more people and companies are deciding that it's not worthwhile preserving a root in Taiwan. Direct flights can only benefit Taiwan, whether it violates some lofty ideal or not. For sure China isn't getting hurt by the ban, and Hong Kong is positively getting fat on it.

PS: if the decision wasn't Taiwan's to make, how come the start of Chinese overflight by Taiwanese carriers last year was a result of a TAIWANESE decision and NOT a CHINESE decision?
Also, the Chen government has been citing security issues for a while as an excuse for the ban. Something to do with Chinese commandos storming off a scheduled passenger flight and taking him captive or something.
 
trex8
Posts: 5616
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:49 pm

Quoting KGAI (Reply 39):
PS: if the decision wasn't Taiwan's to make, how come the start of Chinese overflight by Taiwanese carriers last year was a result of a TAIWANESE decision and NOT a CHINESE decision?
Also, the Chen government has been citing security issues for a while as an excuse for the ban. Something to do with Chinese commandos storming off a scheduled passenger flight and taking him captive or something.

now that scenario is just plain daft, however using a plane a la WTC 9/11 and crashing it into say that new ballistic missile warning radar they are getting in Taiwan may be less daft as the only other real alternative the PLA will have to take it out would be raining SRBMs on it as no ARM has a large enough radome to be able to lock onto its emissions.
 
flyinghippo
Posts: 769
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:48 am

RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:17 pm

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 38):
why do they keep the leased A343 in 3 class configuration, they used to use it to SYD but it seems its destined for HNL now.

This particular plane has been painted to Mandarin Arrline's configuration. They kept the 3 class layout because it is leased from SQ/Boeing, so they don't want to spend the money on a plane that they do not "own". This plane is also designated as Taiwan's "Air Force One" when the ROC president travels aboard, so he can sleep in one of the F class suites.

It has been painted to AE's colors because President Chen felt weird traveling on an airplane with the world CHINA painted on it.
 
flyinghippo
Posts: 769
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:48 am

RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:22 pm

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 40):
now that scenario is just plain daft, however using a plane a la WTC 9/11 and crashing it into say that new ballistic missile warning radar they are getting in Taiwan may be less daft as the only other real alternative the PLA will have to take it out would be raining SRBMs on it as no ARM has a large enough radome to be able to lock onto its emissions.

Now... think about it... no no... REALLY think about it... I do respect you a lot Trex8, but that is a pretty dumb idea you just mentioned.

China do not need to resort to use paseenger jets if they really want to attack Taiwan. A naval blockade will create a big enough panic in Taiwan that the war would not be necessary.
 
KGAI
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:35 am

RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:08 am

Heh well I was being a bit ironic.

Taiwan's administration likes to point out that China has more than 500 ballistic missiles pointed at Taiwan. With that kind of armament, do you think they need to resort to using passenger planes? Yet the administration often cites security as the reason for the flight ban.


Back to the topic though. The Chinese name for China Airlines is not really "China" as much as "Chinese". As in, the Chinese culture and tradition, which Taiwan is definitely a part of. I suppose it's kinda like how the word "Latin" doesn't automatically make you Italian.

Me, I like how China Airlines sounds in Chinese, the English name I don't really care about either way. I suppose I should, since China Airlines is sending me to Australia for flight training and it gets tiresome explaining it to all my American friends that I'm not in China!
 
flyinghippo
Posts: 769
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:48 am

RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:08 am

Quoting KGAI (Reply 43):
Me, I like how China Airlines sounds in Chinese, the English name I don't really care about either way. I suppose I should, since China Airlines is sending me to Australia for flight training and it gets tiresome explaining it to all my American friends that I'm not in China!

KGAI,

Were you selected by CI to be one of their cadet pilots???!?!
 
BR076
Topic Author
Posts: 1032
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 4:10 am

RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:55 am

When I started this thread I had no idea it would get such informative responses.
I learned a lot from it, tnx all  Smile
ú
 
KGAI
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:35 am

RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:30 pm

Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 44):
KGAI,

Were you selected by CI to be one of their cadet pilots???!?!

Yah, quit my job in the states, came back, did the mandatory military service, just for a chance to apply for the program. Assuming I pass the training, then I guess it'll be worth it.


BTW, I saw on the news today the one CI A340 that was repainted in Mandarin Airlines colors. That plane will be used for presidential trips apparently. Pretty damn ugly if you ask me. Ironically, the dull scheme makes it look mainland Chinese.
 
trex8
Posts: 5616
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:38 pm

Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 42):
Now... think about it... no no... REALLY think about it... I do respect you a lot Trex8, but that is a pretty dumb idea you just mentioned.

its not pretty dumb, its incredibly dumb! but I think its still less dumb than CSBs administration thinking about commandos storming CKS!
 
airways1
Posts: 540
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 1999 3:05 am

RE: Why Is China Airlines Called China Airlines?

Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:45 pm

Actually, there did use to be a Taiwan Airlines.

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