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coewr777
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Largest U S Hubs

Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:29 pm

After reading some recent threads i was wondering what the largest U S hub operations are. If you can include how many arrivals and departures
 
commavia
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:33 pm

I am roughly estimating on the number of flights here, as they may vary a bit by season, day, etc., and roughly on the order:

1. Delta-Atlanta (~1000 daily departures)
2. American-D/FW (~800 daily departures)
3. United-Chicago O'Hare (~600 daily departures)

After that, I'm not sure where the rankings fall out, but I would guess that Continental-Houston, American-Chicago, Northwest-Detroit, Northwest-Minneapolis and USAirways-Charlotte are all up there.
 
steeler83
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:40 pm

Hubs in the United States in general... well ATL would be no 1 of course... DFW with 70 gates and over 700 scheduled flights... That's just to name a couple... At one point, US had over 60 gates with over 600 scheduled daily flights at PIT... ORD is a large hub for two different airlines, UA and AA, but I am not sure of how many gates or flight operations a day take place there for each...
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FCYTravis
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:41 pm

US Airways' Charlotte hub has 514 daily departures, with 443 daily departures from Philadelphia.

Those numbers are as of the March, 2006 schedule.

[Edited 2006-03-21 05:46:50]
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RDUDDJI
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:35 pm

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 3):
US Airways' Charlotte hub has 514 daily departures,

I believe that includes USExpress. There are probably as many if not more Express flights at CLT than mainline, just like UA at IAD. IADUA 100 mainline and about 250 UAX.

UA has over 500 Mainline flights at ORD. DL at one point had around 800 mainline departures at ATL (which I believe was also the first airline hub anywhere).
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Cubsrule
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:12 pm

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 4):
I believe that includes USExpress. There are probably as many if not more Express flights at CLT than mainline

It's about 300 Express and 200 mainline.
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FCYTravis
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:20 pm

Yes, that's very true, those all include Express. US has more Express than Mainline at all of its East Coast operations. That's the legacy of operating lots of regional short-hop flights with F100s, BAC-111s and F28s... which are now aluminum cans loaded into the galley carts of the Air Wisconsin CRJ-200s, Piedmont Dash-8s and PSA CRJ-700s plying the East Coast.

CLT: 514 - 207 mainline, 307 Express
PHL: 443 - 152 mainline (3 HP), 291 Express
PHX: 313 - 200 mainline (9 US), 113 Express
PIT: 176 - 43 mainline (2 HP), 133 Express - Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
LAS: 141 - 112 mainline (10 US), 29 Express
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flydreamliner
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:28 pm

MSP - NW opperates roughly 600+ flights per day.
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SESGDL
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:40 pm

I'd guess this order (estimates):

1. DL-ATL (1,100 daily flights, roughly 550 mainline)
2. AA-DFW (770 daily flights, about 500+ mainline)
3. UA-ORD (650 daily flights, about 300 mainline)
4. CO-IAH (about 550 daily flights, about 350 mainline)
4. NW-DTW (about 550 daily flights, about 300 mainline)
5. US-CLT (514 daily flights, 207 mainline)
5. NW-MSP (about 515 daily flights, about 275 mainline)
5. AA-ORD (about 515 daily flights, about 250 mainline)
6. DL-CVG (about 440 daily flights, about 100 mainline)
6. US-PHL (about 443 daily flights, 152 mainline)
6. UA-DEN (about 440 daily flights, about 200 mainline)

The list gets fuzzy after that with DL-SLC, CO-EWR, HP-PHX, and UA-IAD
all being within similar numbers of eachother.

Jeremy
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:06 am

Will CVG still be bigger than SLC after the new group of delta flights start up??
 
flydreamliner
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:31 am

I know CO opperates a lot, well, not a ton, but something of a small hub out of CLE
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AC787
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:39 am

Where's CO at EWR in all of this? I would have thought it would be fairly close to the top.
 
bond007
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:58 am

Well, there's no question the top is ATL.

With DL having over 1000 daily flights, that's more than every airport's total daily movements (except ORD).

Quoting AC787 (Reply 11):
Where's CO at EWR in all of this? I would have thought it would be fairly close to the top.

EWR is where SESGDL said...400-450 flights, but quite a way down the list.


Jimbo
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gr8slvrflt
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:25 am

According to AirTran Airways in a recent filing the Top 20 (not including commuter operations) are:

1 DL/ATL
2 AA/DFW
3 CO/IAH
4 UA/ORD
5 NW/MSP
6 NW.DTW
7 AA/ORD
8 UA/DEN
9 CO/EWR
10 WN/LAS
11 FL/ATL
12 AA/MIA
13 US/CLT
14 WN/PHX
15 US/PHX
16 WN/MDW
17 WN/BWI
18 US/PHL
19 AK/SEA
20 UA/SFO

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....BhZ2U9NDA0MjE2MiZkb2M9MiZudW09MTY=
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SeeTheWorld
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:14 am

According to OAG, March 2006 (Total Scheduled Departures / 31 Days)

This includes both Mainline and Express for Hubs with an average of 100+ departures per day for March 2006:

1) ATL (DL) - 924
2) DFW (AA) -762
3) ORD (UA) - 628
4) CLT (US) - 515
5) DTW (NW) - 499
6) ORD (AA) - 488
7) MSP (NW) - 469
8) DEN (UA) - 425
9) EWR (CO) - 410
10) CVG (DL) - 398
11) SLC (DL) - 321
12) PHX (HP) - 308
13) IAD (UA) - 296
14) SEA (AS) -258
15) MIA (AA) 256
16) SFO (UA) - 254
17) LAX (UA) - 247
18) MEM (NW) - 224
19) CLE (CO) - 218
20) LAS (WN) - 213
21) ATL (FL) - 212
22) STL (AA) - 200
23) PHX (WN) - 195
24) MDW (WN) - 192
25) LGA (US) - 184
26) DCA (US) - 177
27) PIT (US) - 175
28) BWI (WN) - 159
29) LAX (AA) - 146
30) DEN (F9) - 145
31) OAK (WN) - 133
32) LAS (HP) - 132
33) MKE (YX) - 131
34) HOU (WN) - 129
35) JFK (B6) - 124
36t) LGA (AA) - 123
36t) PDX (AS) - 123
38) MCO (DL) - 116
39) LAX (WN) - 114
40t) DAL (WN) - 111
40t) LGA (DL) - 111
 
KAUSpilot
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:27 am

Is it just me or is IAH missing from the list directly above?
 
cle757
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:30 am

Quoting KAUSpilot (Reply 15):
Is it just me or is IAH missing from the list directly above?

Yeah its missing...Does this list include commuter flights..like CommuteAir out of CLE?
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B752OS
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:32 am

Quoting KAUSpilot (Reply 15):
Is it just me or is IAH missing from the list directly above?

You're right, it is not on there and I think it's safe to assume that they would be in the top ten. Also, I thought DL had a larger amount of flights out of ATL, something around 1,200.
 
FCYTravis
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:52 am

The US PHL hub is also missing from that OAG list. Looks like it would slot in at #8, directly below MSP.
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kyair
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:56 am

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 14):
According to OAG, March 2006 (Total Scheduled Departures / 31 Days)

This includes both Mainline and Express for Hubs with an average of 100+ departures per day for March 2006:

Also missing is the US hub at PHL.
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SeeTheWorld
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:08 am

Quoting KAUSpilot (Reply 15):
Is it just me or is IAH missing from the list directly above?

I knew there was no way for me to do this without screwing up. And, it was a big screw-up. Sorry about that.

3) IAH (CO) - 713

9) PHL (US) - 448

[Edited 2006-03-21 20:10:28]
 
SESGDL
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:10 am

Quoting Slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 9):
Will CVG still be bigger than SLC after the new group of delta flights start up??

No. With the new additions SLC will have approximately 380 daily flights, still about 50 below CVG.

Quoting B752OS (Reply 17):
You're right, it is not on there and I think it's safe to assume that they would be in the top ten. Also, I thought DL had a larger amount of flights out of ATL, something around 1,200.

IAH and PHL are missing from that list. Also, that list is an average of the number of daily flights over the 31 days. Take into account that on weekends, especially Saturdays, airlines cut a number of flights which decreases the average.

Jeremy
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:14 am

Again, March 2006 (mainline and express) - total departures for the month divided by 31 days (rounded).

1) ATL (DL) - 924
2) DFW (AA) -762
3) IAH (CO) - 713
4) ORD (UA) - 628
5) CLT (US) - 515
6) DTW (NW) - 499
7) ORD (AA) - 488
8) MSP (NW) - 469
9) PHL (US) - 441
10) DEN (UA) - 425
11) EWR (CO) - 410
12) CVG (DL) - 398
13) SLC (DL) - 321
14) PHX (HP) - 308
15) IAD (UA) - 296
16) SEA (AS) -258
17) MIA (AA) 256
18) SFO (UA) - 254
19) LAX (UA) - 247
20) MEM (NW) - 224
21) CLE (CO) - 218
22) LAS (WN) - 213
23) ATL (FL) - 212
24) STL (AA) - 200
25) PHX (WN) - 195
26) MDW (WN) - 192
27) LGA (US) - 184
28) DCA (US) - 177
29) PIT (US) - 175
30) BWI (WN) - 159
31) LAX (AA) - 146
32) DEN (F9) - 145
33) OAK (WN) - 133
34) LAS (HP) - 132
35) MKE (YX) - 131
36) HOU (WN) - 129
37) JFK (B6) - 124
38t) LGA (AA) - 123
38t) PDX (AS) - 123
39) MCO (DL) - 116
40) LAX (WN) - 114
41t) DAL (WN) - 111
41t) LGA (DL) - 111
 
N766UA
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:34 am

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 22):
21) CLE (CO) - 218

According to the DOT, Continental and their regional partners fly 247 daily departures from CLE to 71 cities, not 218.
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:56 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 21):
Also, that list is an average of the number of daily flights over the 31 days. Take into account that on weekends, especially Saturdays, airlines cut a number of flights which decreases the average.

Jeremy,
It's exactly what I said it was. It's the TOTAL number of departures for the entire month of March divided by the number of days in March, i.e. 31. It is likely that the average number of departures on any Wednesday in March is probably higher than any Saturday. If you'd like to see it a different way, then you go ahead a pull the information and provide it to us.


Quoting N766UA (Reply 23):
According to the DOT, Continental and their regional partners fly 247 daily departures from CLE to 71 cities, not 218.

As noted, this is March 2006 data according to the Official Airline Guide. DOT provides historical information not current schedules.

Folks, I apologize for the egregious errors of omitting IAH and PHL. Also, please keep in mind that I sourced my data accurately. As most people know, different sources will give you different answers. I pulled current schedules from OAG, which is the industry standard. Is it always 100% right? No, of course it is not.

I took the time to collect this data and provide it you all because I thought you'd want to see it. I'm assuming some people appreciated it. Next time, I spend the time doing something more productive.
 
N766UA
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:59 am

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 24):
DOT provides historical information not current schedules.

Actually, it's in a newly released report for the new Regions Air service and says "as of March 2006." http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf95/390625_web.pdf

I would imagine they'd use the most accurate info possible when deciding on a subsidy and not "historical" info.
 
FCYTravis
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:02 am

SeeTheWorld, a couple small omissions don't negate your hard work. Very useful information, thanks.
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IAHFLYR
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:53 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 8):
4. CO-IAH (about 550 daily flights, about 350 mainline)

Thought your numbers were a bit off and I see from other posts that they were, the mainline at IAH is about 45% of the total for CO. Won't be too long into the spring/summer that IAH should go past DFW on this list!
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MIA767
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:10 am

I think MIA should rank in the top 10 I'm not sure I agree with some of the lists presented, with the constrution of the new Runway MIA increased traffic in a 25% (AA flights increased as well) also the airport counts with 107 gates plus with the construction of the new terminal which should be done by '07-'08 if 'm not mistaken all of these statistics will sky-rocket, and I'm pretty sure we'll see MIA ranked in the top 5 by 2008.
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steeler83
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:11 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 6):
PIT: 176 - 43 mainline (2 HP), 133 Express - Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

It was sad to see PIT lose its hub, but if not for that then LCCs would probably never have come on in, and the O&D would not be on its way up. Take it with a grain of salt, I guess...
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irelayer
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:43 am

How about total passenger figures and percentage of daily departures for these hubs? ATL and DFW would probably still be the biggest in both areas, but I am interested to see where ORD shakes out, considering ORD has more international heavies than ATL and DFW.

-IR
 
steeler83
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:50 am

Quoting IRelayer (Reply 30):
ORD has more international heavies than ATL and DFW.

Yeah, LOTS more. I believe that ORD has a large Euro market as well as an asian market. DFW is mostly European and Latin/South American I think... And ATL as well. And according to a recent thread regarding DL in ATL, DL wants to add African service. (I don't know if AA has African routes from DFW or if any other airline does or not...)
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dalb777
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:57 am

Quoting IRelayer (Reply 30):
ORD has more international heavies than ATL and DFW.

Which has more international heavies, ORD or JFK?
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FCYTravis
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:13 am

Quoting MIA767 (Reply 28):
I think MIA should rank in the top 10 I'm not sure I agree with some of the lists presented,

Why would you disagree? They're raw, hard numbers. The hubs above MIA are all major continental connecting hubs for airlines, with significant cross-country traffic. MIA is a great place for AA to shuttle traffic through to the Caribbean, but not very great at all for domestic traffic. Therefore, MIA will *never* be as big a hub in straight departures terms as Charlotte is for US or Denver is for UA. It will *never* be a top-5 connecting hub.

[Edited 2006-03-22 01:14:56]
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steeler83
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:38 am

Quoting Dalb777 (Reply 32):
JFK?

I would think that JFK would; they serve just about every single market out there...
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bond007
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:53 am

Quoting MIA767 (Reply 28):
I think MIA should rank in the top 10 I'm not sure I agree with some of the lists presented, with the constrution of the new Runway MIA increased traffic in a 25% (AA flights increased as well) also the airport counts with 107 gates plus with the construction of the new terminal which should be done by '07-'08 if 'm not mistaken all of these statistics will sky-rocket, and I'm pretty sure we'll see MIA ranked in the top 5 by 2008.

MIA barely has 600 flights/day with AA mainline/regional around 50% of that...from a different source than SeeTheWorld but similar figures.


Jimbo
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dalb777
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:24 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 34):
I would think that JFK would; they serve just about every single market out there...

Yeah thats what I was thinking.
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UA772IAD
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:04 pm

Those results are interesting. According to United (and I can't remember the exact link on united), but they said that their second largest hub is SFO, in terms of operations, and IAD is third. Is this question referring to Domestic or International operations only?
 
BigGSFO
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:48 pm

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 37):
According to United (and I can't remember the exact link on united), but they said that their second largest hub is SFO, in terms of operations, and IAD is third.

Really? DEN is most definitely UA's second largest hub. Maybe the link was referring to international operations.
 
bond007
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:59 pm

From United.com

"...it will begin new seasonal Saturday service between the carrier's second-largest hub at Denver (DEN) ..."


Jimbo
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IADCRJ
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:06 pm

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 6):
PIT: 176 - 43 mainline (2 HP), 133 Express - Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

Very depressing indeed to acknowledge this fact. There was a time in PIT not to terribly long ago (about 5 or 6 years ago) when US had over 500 daily departures out of there. Infact, atleast two-thirds of these flights were all mainline flights. I can still remember the days of seeing both the A and B gates there at PIT parked solid all day long with US mainline aircraft. It is very depressing to walk down those two concourses in PIT in these days, seeing a good chunk of these old US gates vacant most of the time.
 
steeler83
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:30 pm

Quoting IADCRJ (Reply 40):
Very depressing indeed to acknowledge this fact. There was a time in PIT not to terribly long ago (about 5 or 6 years ago) when US had over 500 daily departures out of there. Infact, atleast two-thirds of these flights were all mainline flights. I can still remember the days of seeing both the A and B gates there at PIT parked solid all day long with US mainline aircraft. It is very depressing to walk down those two concourses in PIT in these days, seeing a good chunk of these old US gates vacant most of the time.

Walk down those concourses some time and stand at either the entry to Gate A25 or B50. You'll swear that if a pin were to drop on the floor near the Southwest gates or Gate B26, you'd be able to hear it. What's worse, the floors are fully carpeted... That is sad... I think century III mall sees more pedestrian traffic than PIT does...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
SESGDL
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:23 pm

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 24):
Jeremy,
It's exactly what I said it was. It's the TOTAL number of departures for the entire month of March divided by the number of days in March, i.e. 31. It is likely that the average number of departures on any Wednesday in March is probably higher than any Saturday. If you'd like to see it a different way, then you go ahead a pull the information and provide it to us.

I hope you're not arguing with me because my post was for B752OS, I wasn't saying anything negative about your posting of the information.

Jeremy
 
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knope2001
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:28 pm

SeeTheWorld, add my thanks to those of others who also appreciate your work on this.

I apologize if this was already pointed out by someone (I didn't see it but might have missed it) but an obvious reason why your stats may seem low to some is that your numbers are, as you said, all monthly operations for March divided by 31. Most other sources, including company press releases, speak of total peak day departures. Often that's a weekday, with weekend schedules cut far back.

Continental, especially Cleveland, have recently had among the biggest number of flights not operating 7 or even 6 or 5 days per week. More than most airlines, Continental has periodically had flights that didn't operate on Tuesdays, and/or Wednesdays in addition to more traditional weekend cutbacks.

In trying to compare hubs, comparing average daily departures is inmost ways more meaningful that simply comparing peak day departures.
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:40 am

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 37):
Those results are interesting. According to United (and I can't remember the exact link on united), but they said that their second largest hub is SFO, in terms of operations, and IAD is third. Is this question referring to Domestic or International operations only?

Negative, UA's hubs in order of Mainline flights goes: ORD, DEN, SFO, IAD, LAX. Factor in UAX and it goes: ORD, DEN, IAD, SFO, LAX
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:52 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 25):
Actually, it's in a newly released report for the new Regions Air service and says "as of March 2006." http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf95/390625_web.pdf

I would imagine they'd use the most accurate info possible when deciding on a subsidy and not "historical" info.

First, that's not the DOT, that's an application to the DOT by a private company.

Second, you would believe a proposal by a private firm trying to show the best possible scenario over the Official Airline Guide, which stakes its reputation and profits providing accurate information?

Third, as I pointed out above, this is the average daily departures for every day in the month of March. It is not the peak departures for the peak day of March.

[Edited 2006-03-22 19:01:28]
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:00 am

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 43):
I apologize if this was already pointed out by someone (I didn't see it but might have missed it) but an obvious reason why your stats may seem low to some is that your numbers are, as you said, all monthly operations for March divided by 31. Most other sources, including company press releases, speak of total peak day departures. Often that's a weekday, with weekend schedules cut far back.

You're exactly right, as I did mention that in follow-up posts. It was the quickest, most accurate way to present the numbers for the current month. I could have just as easily pulled data for a Wednesday in March, but I would have been nit-picked for any number of other reasons, so I decided to pull for the month and divide by 31.
 
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knope2001
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:45 am

SeeTheWorld, do you have easy enough access to the OAG data which would reflect capacity? That's a different way to measure and rank which is also interesting, but it might not be as readily obtainable.
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:35 am

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 47):
SeeTheWorld, do you have easy enough access to the OAG data which would reflect capacity? That's a different way to measure and rank which is also interesting, but it might not be as readily obtainable.

I have the OAG at my fingertips. That's what I used for the original data pull.
 
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knope2001
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RE: Largest U S Hubs

Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:39 am

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 48):



Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 48):
I have the OAG at my fingertips. That's what I used for the original data pull.

Cool...if you're able to get capacity info to rank the hubs as well, that would be interesting as well.

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