hb88
Topic Author
Posts: 761
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:25 am

Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:12 am

Article in the NYT.

I have to say, I agree - they are becoming pretty much a waste of time. I don't know about the US, but internationally I think there's more benefit to be had in looking for a competitive fare than trying to get non-existant upgrades.


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/21/bu...i=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss
 
TWA902fly
Posts: 3095
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:47 am

RE: Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:22 am

I dont think theyre that bad. Especially if one carrier dominates a market. Say in Cincinnati, a large part of the population are abviously Delta SkyMiles members. And i know plenty of people who would pay $10-20+ more to get those miles by flying Delta's nonstop than taking UA CVG-ORD-XXX. I myself have an account with all major carriers and it doesnt matter to me that much. I get the miles for free tickets not for upgrades. However if JetBlue or someone would start flying transatlantic i probably would still lean to whoever i had miles with because i might not get another chance to fly JetBlue in awhile, seeing as how they are very small compared to other airlines. A lot of times airlines offer the same fare on a route. Most people would go with those that they have FF miles with.

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
BigGSFO
Posts: 2275
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:27 am

RE: Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:27 am

I have to say I am a whore for UA miles. Even though my work pays for 90% of my travel, I have the luxury of using my airline of choice and being at SFO, that would be UA. I don't have problems cashing in miles for tickets, and get about 60% of the upgrades I request.

So in my opinion, loyalty programs accomplish what they set-out to do.
 
UTA_flyinghigh
Posts: 6304
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:46 pm

RE: Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:33 am

There's more to elite status than just upgrhaades.
There's lounges, additional baggage allowance, premium seating, etc...

UTA  checkeredflag 
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
Oykie
Posts: 1941
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:21 am

RE: Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:41 am

Quoting HB88 (Thread starter):
Article in the NYT.

I have to say, I agree - they are becoming pretty much a waste of time. I don't know about the US, but internationally I think there's more benefit to be had in looking for a competitive fare than trying to get non-existant upgrades.

The loyalty programs is also a waste of money. It forces the airline to spend money on other things than just flying. I will not undermine the benefits about the loyalty programs. For example:

Quoting UTA_flyinghigh (Reply 3):
There's more to elite status than just upgrhaades.
There's lounges, additional baggage allowance, premium seating, etc...
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
Poitin
Posts: 2651
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:32 am

RE: Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:51 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 2):
I have to say I am a whore for UA miles. Even though my work pays for 90% of my travel, I have the luxury of using my airline of choice and being at SFO, that would be UA.

I think this is the key to the "loyalty" programs -- business travel, which is the most profitable for airlines. I was also once a roadwarrior, travelling some 250,000 a year, mostly on UA. Then one day they started to cancel my miles because I was too busy to use it. Then I stopped flying UA and looking for better deals. Swiss Air had a really sweet deal for flying to Europe about 10 years ago.

Now retired, I buy my own tickets as cheaply as possible.  Big grin
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:00 am

Well, for me I've had 2 J seats GVA-YVR last Christmas, 2 J seats to DXB in May, and 2 F seats (couldn't find any J seats) back to Vancouver next summer and I still have 200k+ miles in my account. Flew a lot of miles, on my employers nickle, for these - but they didn't pay any more that if I'd flown with another competitor.

Are they a waste of time? Who are you trying to kid?
 
hb88
Topic Author
Posts: 761
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:25 am

RE: Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:02 am

Quoting ANother (Reply 6):
Are they a waste of time? Who are you trying to kid?

Ok, it must just be BA then! (and my ex-employers policy of sending people long haul on the lowest economy fare - I did lots of traveling for no miles...).

I did agree with some of the article though.
 
UAL4ever
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:45 pm

RE: Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:11 am

While the article makes a few good points I still have to disagree. I cant count how many flights I would have missed at ORD without UA's priority check in and even more importantly, priority security lines.
 
IFEMaster
Posts: 4164
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:17 am

RE: Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sat Mar 25, 2006 2:08 am

I used to have BMI Diamond Club membership, and flew a lot with my job on various Star Alliance airlines. I've had several free trips to various places around the world because of that.

Personally, I think memberships only work if you're flying enough, i.e. with your job etc. The average person who might fly once or twice a year for leisure probably isn't going to benefit anything from a loyalty membership.

I'm now in that boat. I used to fly a lot with my current job, but since my position changed, I don't fly regularly anymore. When I fly to England in August on NZ, that will be the last of my miles that I use for that flight. After that, my leisure flights are at my own expense. I doubt I will fly enough to make any membership worthwhile.

However, what IS worthwhile in my opinion is Priority Pass membership. I was a member for a year last year free of charge, and I must say that the ability to find a half-decent lounge at pertty much any airport and be able to use it regardless of airline or class of ticket. I flew Frontier SNA - DEN - SNA and was able to use the BA Terrace lounge at DEN. When my flight was delayed for three hours, that made the experience a whole heck of a lot better. I will be renewing my membership shortly for that capability alone.
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978
 
macc
Posts: 928
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:11 pm

RE: Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sat Mar 25, 2006 2:25 am

waste of time? definitely not. as FTL with M&M I can use business class check in and priority lanes at security. That saves a lot of time, if you just think of the crowd of pax waiting at economy check in counters especially during the holiday season. being able to use a lounge adds some amenities to travel too.

upgrades and free flights arent the big hit. with M&M, you need a minimum of 15k miles for a "free flight", but still the tax and fees account for something like 100 € per flight. Free flights therefore make only sense at destinations which are usually priced over 250 euros to have a significant saving.
I exchanged political frustration with sexual boredom. better spoil a girl than the world
 
User avatar
fbgdavidson
Posts: 3872
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:25 am

RE: Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sat Mar 25, 2006 2:57 am

Quoting ANother (Reply 6):
Well, for me I've had 2 J seats GVA-YVR last Christmas, 2 J seats to DXB in May, and 2 F seats (couldn't find any J seats) back to Vancouver next summer and I still have 200k+ miles in my account. Flew a lot of miles, on my employers nickle, for these - but they didn't pay any more that if I'd flown with another competitor.

Are they a waste of time? Who are you trying to kid?

 thumbsup  For those who fly a lot or read into best ways to use their miles it can be pretty valuable. I recently flew IAD-LHR-CPT-LHR-IAD with my girlfriend in UA C and BA F with all but two sectors on miles, had I paid for those tickets it'd cost the fat end of $25k

Quoting HB88 (Reply 7):
Ok, it must just be BA then! (and my ex-employers policy of sending people long haul on the lowest economy fare - I did lots of traveling for no miles...).

BA Exec Club is truly rubbish if you fly on cheap tickets. But then again there is a triple miles promo on for J/F at the moment. Earning almost 130,000 miles on one LHR-SYD-LHR in F at the moment  biggrin  Enough for an F trip to the US or South Africa in one go!
"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2917
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:02 am

From the NY Times article: "But can airlines afford to lose their most loyal customers as they scrounge for spare change?"

To which I would reply, airlines can ill-afford to keep their "cheapskate" elites who expect to have their proverbial cake (loss-leader fares) and eat it too (costly preferential treatment and free upgrades).

From the same article: "But I, Mr. Gold Elite, did not fare much better on the same itinerary. I could get only middle-row seats on both trips. And I would rather take a brick up side the head than sit in a middle row seat on a long flight." (the writer is referring to middle seats)

Why? Because pre-assigned seating on the U.S. legacies has, in reality, largely become a "which middle seat do you prefer?" farce -- even for elites inasmuch as the legacy elite programs have become something like the consumer economy of the former Soviet Union where consumers had tons of rubles to spend but the shelves were empty, meaning their rubles had little or no value, only because there was little or nothing available to buy. The legacies have made their elite programs too easy to qualify for, meaning they no longer have enough preferred seating available with any consistency for those who have the status to "spend" on such advertised perks. Then again, it's consistent with the legacies' penchant for overpromising (at least implicitly) and underdelivering.

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 4):
The loyalty programs is also a waste of money. It forces the airline to spend money on other things than just flying.

Loyalty programs, as practiced by the U.S. legacies, are a huge cost to their airline sponsors. In reality, their programs are nothing more than costly, convoluted schemes designed to buy customer "loyalty." In the process, legacy FF programs have turned many of their members into FFFreeloaders, turning what might have been profitable business into high-maintenance, high-cost, low-yield customers who would be instantly replaced by low-maintenance, low-cost, equal-yield, non-elite customers if said FFF elites were to make good on their threats to take their business elsewhere.
 
AEROFAN
Posts: 1824
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:47 am

RE: Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sat Mar 25, 2006 4:25 am

Tango Bravo, I couldn't have said it better!

I had one last nite out of JFK. He was on his way to Europe on vacation and demanded an upgrade on his cheapo econ tkt. I was floored when he told me, he always flies F or J. Well, he didn't last nite!
He took umbrage when I quoted him the difference in fare he would need to pay to move to the J cabin.

[Edited 2006-03-24 20:26:41]
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4603
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sat Mar 25, 2006 5:14 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 2):
I have to say I am a whore for UA miles. Even though my work pays for 90% of my travel, I have the luxury of using my airline of choice and being at SFO, that would be UA.

LOL, as I am a hooker for CO miles...lol. Even though I'm in SLC, I'd rather connect in IAH and EWR for my Int'l flights, then risk stepping onto a DL flight again.

Quoting UTA_flyinghigh (Reply 3):
There's more to elite status than just upgrhaades.
There's lounges, additional baggage allowance, premium seating, etc...

Amen to that, UTA.
 
YYZYYT
Posts: 1068
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:41 am

RE: Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sat Mar 25, 2006 5:28 am

Can't hurt to join up, I say,
Though, I too was quite frustrated with the whole FF thing myself, which was often not worth the aggro and expense... until I saw that it could be done properly (and not by a legacy: surprise!).

In Canada, I offer the example of the Canjet FF prograpm:

- 6 one-way flights, and your 7th is free. period.

- calculating points is easy: none of "status / non-status / 50% credit / upgrade you fare and get more points ... " crap.

- great customer service: never had to wait for more than 2 minutes to speak to someone, and they are always willing to try and help. (same can be said for all of Canjet's customer service)

- redeeming is easy: you usually actually GET a seat, which is more than can be said for Aeroplan in my experience.

- getting credit for missing points is also easy... none of this "mail us the original boarding passs" bull &^#@, - I quote the reservation number, agent calls up the intinerary on screen, see that it was flown, and the points are in my account within seconds.

- I am generally able to take advantage without having to buy unnecessarily expensive tickets (its an LCC).

The only downsides are that there is no chance of an upgrade to exec, because Canjet has none (not much of a loss when you are not status) and you have to pay for your can of pop.

In fact, the program is one reason I prefer Canjet now (keep up the good work).

signed,
YYZ "Oh, they also have a good schedule between two particular airports" YYT
 
User avatar
PA110
Posts: 1976
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sat Mar 25, 2006 5:43 am

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 1):
I myself have an account with all major carriers...

So much for loyalty!

It would be nice if airlines went back to the true meaning of frequent fliers. Stop offering instant membership. I actually think BA has the right idea. They require prospective members to meet a certain threshold for both number of flights and type of fare paid.

Loyalty programs for leisure travelers on low yield tickets simply don't justify the cost of running these programs. All they do is create expectations airlines couldn't possibly fulfill.

[Edited 2006-03-24 21:44:01]
Look, it's been swell, but the swelling's gone down.
 
AADC10
Posts: 1511
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 7:40 am

RE: Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sat Mar 25, 2006 5:51 am

Loyalty programs are losing their value, but they are essential for the survival of the legacy carriers as they will never be able to undercut LCCs on price. Also since all carriers are being forced to raise prices, the value of frequent flyer tickes will increase, since you can use them (if you can get a seat) in place of increasingly expensive tickets.

Also, WN's Rapid Rewards is implementing capacity controls, which will greatly reduce their value and B6's program has always been stingy. Yes, award tickets and upgrades are harder to get but the legacies that will survive will have the best frequent flyer program. Most surveys show that legacy flyers place the loyalty program as one of the top 3 or so reasons for selecting an airline.
 
nudelhirsch
Posts: 1371
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 6:20 am

RE: Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sat Mar 25, 2006 6:04 am

Thes eprograms are great. I am AA Gold. Citibank gives me a mile per $ spent on my credit card. Paying tuition with that card this is quite a stack of extra miles.
Also, I got business class round trip tickets for a fair amount of miles, lots of free upgrades, there is a priority line in security in ORD and FRA, my mostly used airports...
All those things keep me attracted to AA.
As soon as I move I might switch to an airline much more present at my future place...
Putana da Seatbeltz!
 
DLPMMM
Posts: 2276
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

RE: Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sat Mar 25, 2006 6:19 am

Sorry folks, but most of you are dead wrong about loyalty programs.

Most of the airlines have figured out how to make their programs profit centers (often their only profit center these days).

If you calculate what the airlines are paid for their miles by the outside partners and multiply that by the number of miles for each award you will find that the airlines get paid more for their award tickets (and in advance of booking) than they do for most of the regularly purchased tickets. On top of this, the award seats would have generally been empty anyway.
 
atrude777
Posts: 4359
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sat Mar 25, 2006 6:24 am

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 15):

You just described SWA here in the USA. Basically the same thing.

I am loyal to Southwest Airlines Rapid Reward Program, because it is by far the easiest and fastest way to earn free tikets. As a college student I get a free award ticket after 4 ROUND TRIP FLIGHTS, thats 8 one way.

I used to be loyal with AA but I felt I wasn't getting anywhere with AA.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
sebring
Posts: 1331
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:08 am

RE: Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sat Mar 25, 2006 6:39 am

I love Air Canada's Aeroplan for two reasons:

I get miles and miles and get free trips

And by investing in the Aeroplan Income Trust, it pays me 6% with some tax deferred benefits and I am sitting on a 30% capital gain right now. Can your FF program do that!
 
thebry
Posts: 337
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:50 am

RE: Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sat Mar 25, 2006 6:43 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 2):
I have to say I am a whore for UA miles. Even though my work pays for 90% of my travel, I have the luxury of using my airline of choice and being at SFO, that would be UA. I don't have problems cashing in miles for tickets, and get about 60% of the upgrades I request.

So in my opinion, loyalty programs accomplish what they set-out to do.

I agree. I'm an AA guy and live in San Francisco. I travel to Japan frequently, and since I want the AA miles (and bonuses, etc.), I drive down to San Jose to catch the SJC - NRT flight on AA instead of taking UA, JAL or others out of SFO.

But, I'll tell ya, loyalty works -- I'm a "Million Miler" on American, which means that although I typically qualify for AAdvantage Platinum year over year, they've made me an AAdvantage Gold member for life. So, even if I don't fly enough miles in a year to keep my Platinum status, the furthest down I'll drop is to Gold.

However, I don't know how long this reward strategy will work for them. Since my Gold status is secure for life, I feel more comfortable building up miles on United now (not having to defend my status at American). For example, I just took a nice trip to New Zealand and Australia on NZ's new service from SFO. I had the miles added to my United Mileage Plus account in hopes of building up loyalty with United.

The little perks really help if you're a frequent traveler -- no waiting in long economy check-in lines; the privilege of boarding in the first group of folks to get on the plane, which gives you an advantage when in need of overhead space; the occasional upgrade; bonus miles; yadda yadda yadda. In my book, loyalty programs work.
 
User avatar
ClassicLover
Posts: 4769
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

RE: Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sat Mar 25, 2006 7:21 am

Agreed.

Not having to wait in the huge snaking Economy queue for check-in is a fantastic perk. Lounge access regardless of the class your flying is also very good, because they have free booze, Internet and food (mostly). Priority boarding is also exceptional as you can settle into your seat without having had to wait in the aisle. Priority luggage also saves a hell of a lot of time at the other end.

I'm with Qantas, and you don't get free upgrades. Internationally, you can request an upgrade by points, and they allocate them in order of FF level etc. You don't lose the miles if you're not upgraded. Makes more sense than free upgrades, though all the QF FFs bitch and moan about it.

Using points for free flights is excellent as well. I used 40,000 points to fly SYD-LAX and the one way fare is currently $1517 including tax booking in seven months time. See what I mean? Excellent savings to be had.

Are they worth it to the airline? Sure. I pay to fly QF for all my Australian domestic travel and I pay for Business Class seats as well. As they are part of oneworld, I fly Finnair (scandalous deal for Business Class on their web site which I will keep a secret), Aer Lingus, American Airlines, British Airways, Cathay Pacific... almost exclusively.

The only times I have flown outside of oneworld was a SAS flight DUB-ARN-DUB, and Icelandair LHR-KEF-LHR. The only time in the future is to sample Aeroflot Business LHR-SVO-BKK. So really, I am allied to the alliance that treats me the best, and I enjoy the perks offered. Win/Win in my opinion.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
TWA902fly
Posts: 3095
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:47 am

RE: Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sat Mar 25, 2006 8:02 am

Quoting PA110 (Reply 16):
So much for loyalty!

For the most part I am loyal. I just have an account with (what i try to make) 1 airline in every alliance. And I fly enough to rack up 2 free tickets a year or so. So no, i am no business traveller ORD-LHR twice a week. but i dont just go to Orlando on a $100 ticket once a year either. Id say in an average year i fly 40 segments, and if not for FF programs id always go with lowest fare. But United has won my business many times on a higher fare due to the fact i'd get miles. Recently ive stuck to DL/NW/CO Skyteam, and as of now I am loyal to SkyTeam, and unless there is a huge price difference i will stick to them for now. We'll see. So FF programs do help me make my decisions, and I am sure thats what the airlines wanted.

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4603
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sat Mar 25, 2006 8:10 am

Quoting Nudelhirsch (Reply 18):
Thes eprograms are great. I am AA Gold. Citibank gives me a mile per $ spent on my credit card. Paying tuition with that card this is quite a stack of extra miles.
Also, I got business class round trip tickets for a fair amount of miles, lots of free upgrades, there is a priority line in security in ORD and FRA, my mostly used airports...
All those things keep me attracted to AA.
As soon as I move I might switch to an airline much more present at my future place...

Well Nudelhirsch, if you're ever in SLC look me up! What are you studying, may I ask?

Quoting Thebry (Reply 22):
I'm an AA guy and live in San Francisco. I travel to Japan frequently, and since I want the AA miles (and bonuses, etc.), I drive down to San Jose to catch the SJC - NRT flight on AA instead of taking UA, JAL or others out of SFO.

Does AA still have a big presence in SJC?

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 24):
For the most part I am loyal.

As am I, to Skyteam now, but used to be WHOLEHEARTEDLY loyal to TWA, up to the end. If the Golden Globe couln't get me there, I didn't need to go.  bigthumbsup 
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2917
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sat Mar 25, 2006 8:14 am

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 19):
Most of the airlines have figured out how to make their programs profit centers (often their only profit center these days).

On paper, U.S. legacy loyalty programs appear to be profitable because: 1) virtually 100% of the (very high) true costs of their programs are allocated elsewhere in the airlines' accounting ledgers and 2) the considerable amount lost to "revenue drain" (why pay to fly when one can fly for free; why pay a first class fare to fly in F when one can upgrade for free from a loss-leader fare, etc) is not calculated against the "profits" earned by loyalty programs.
 
GIA
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 8:26 am

RE: Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sat Mar 25, 2006 5:34 pm

Qantas frequent flyer is the way to go for me. Eventhough i am not a regular customer flying Qantas (flew them once a year) it is impossible for me to get to the next level membership. However, after 4 years of membership i have accumulated points through the use of credit card and I have booked a return trip for my father a return first class ticket from SIN - AMS via LHR (LHR-AMS J class). If i were to buy them, it would cost SGD$10000+ which i couldn't afford. Therefore, loyalty program a waste of time? No way

The good thing about using credit card is that you get 1 point for every dollar you spend. Other airline you need to spend $2 to get 1 point.
 
ckfred
Posts: 5179
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: Loyalty Programs A Waste Of Time?

Sun Mar 26, 2006 4:30 am

If loyalty programs are so bad, then why have so many industries copied the idea?

My wife stays exclusively at Marriott hotels (Marriott, Springhill, Courtyard, etc.) and rents only from Avis with its preferred renter program.

I have a Hallmark Gold Crown Card, so I get gift certificates, coupons, etc.

Most grocery stores have discount cards that have other benefits.

My father used to be a road warrior. Before the FF programs, it was pretty much who had the most convenient schedules, although he avoided Eastern like the Plague.

After everyone got a FF program, he flew AA more than anyone else.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos