JoeCattoli
Topic Author
Posts: 491
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:06 am

EK-split In Italy, One More A332 In Favour Of Nice

Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:04 am

As I supposed in this thread Emirates seems to have seen my post... Big grin

Even if I haven't found yet an official information The Emirates website flight planner states that already now (e.g. 31/3-2/4-3/4) the former service
1357 DXB-FCO-MXP-DXB B773
246 DXB-MXP-FCO-DXB B773
will change slightly.
The service will split some 3 times a week in favour of a
B773 DXB-FCO-NCE(Nice - Cote d'Azur)-FCO-DXB
A332 DXB-MXP-DXB
It doesn't seem to be an error because I checked lots of cases and it seems till the end of the year.
It's nice to hear that they intend to upgrade their Italian service... which sees indeed beautiful load factors (I believe around 95% because I was in 2 flights completely full in Economy and friends of mine told me the same... A friend of mine got even an upgrade to Business class because the flight was overbooked) When I flew the 26th of Jan into FCO the flight was still headed to MXP but I don't know if the new schedule already were changed.
I think the fact they use Rome FCO either to Milan MXP or Nice may mean that there are less passengers booked in from Rome than from Milan that is able justify an A332 itself.
I think in the future we could see both Rome and Milan "upgraded" to a daily A332 given the good loads. What do you think about?

Ciao  wave 
Joe
 
behramjee
Posts: 5020
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: EK-split In Italy, One More A332 In Favour Of Nice

Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:24 am

UAE and ITALY have a very restricted bilateral agreement which AZ is fiercely protective of hence EK hasnt gone daily to both those cities as yet.
 
JoeCattoli
Topic Author
Posts: 491
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:06 am

RE: EK-split In Italy, One More A332 In Favour Of Nice

Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:45 am

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 1):
UAE and ITALY have a very restricted bilateral agreement which AZ is fiercely protective of hence EK hasnt gone daily to both those cities as yet

I didn't know but I should have imagined...
I think that if the restriction is about number of flights we could see soon the route switching to an A380... what do you think?

Ciao
Joe
 
klmflyer
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: EK-split In Italy, One More A332 In Favour Of Nice

Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:57 am

An A380 flown on the DXB/Italy market won't be a profitable operation as it would be difficult to fill 555 seats on each flight, nor EK would consider a daily operation with the new European jumbo.
It is much more profitable to customize each segment by using the aircraft that better fits into the market and as you can see the B777 will be used for the FCO-NCE flight while the thinner A330 will be flown to MXP.
ciao
 
EddieDude
Posts: 7023
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: EK-split In Italy, One More A332 In Favour Of Nice

Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:02 am

Does EK have traffic rights between NCE and FCO?
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
JoeCattoli
Topic Author
Posts: 491
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:06 am

RE: EK-split In Italy, One More A332 In Favour Of Nice

Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting KLMflyer (Reply 3):
An A380 flown on the DXB/Italy market won't be a profitable operation as it would be difficult to fill 555 seats on each flight, nor EK would consider a daily operation with the new European jumbo

I know but Behramjee said there are bi-lateral agreements and if the agreement forecast no more than a plane a day they could fill easily 555 on the DXB-MXP-FCO-DXB or DXB-FCO-NCE-FCO-DXB...

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 4):
Does EK have traffic rights between NCE and FCO

I think so... It would just be DXB-NCE-FCO-DXB instead of DXB-FCO-NCE-FCO-DXB if they wouldn't have the traffic rights in my opinion...

Ciao
Joe
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: EK-split In Italy, One More A332 In Favour Of Nice

Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:52 pm

Quoting JoeCattoli (Reply 5):
Quoting EddieDude (Reply 4):
Does EK have traffic rights between NCE and FCO

I think so... It would just be DXB-NCE-FCO-DXB instead of DXB-FCO-NCE-FCO-DXB if they wouldn't have the traffic rights in my opinion...

Don't forget that France & Italy are both Schengen. If they exercised traffic rights they would have to clear all arriving passengers from DXB in Rome which would add to the ground time. They may have rights but I would think that that limited amount of traffic they would carry would probably not be too interesting.

I've just checked the OAG and only AF AZ and BV show flights ...
 
JoeCattoli
Topic Author
Posts: 491
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RE: EK-split In Italy, One More A332 In Favour Of Nice

Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:37 pm

Quoting ANother (Reply 6):
Don't forget that France & Italy are both Schengen. If they exercised traffic rights they would have to clear all arriving passengers from DXB in Rome which would add to the ground time

Not that much I think... Why wouldn't they fly just DXB-NCE-FCO-DXB instead? The extra stop would be non-sense don't you think?

Quoting ANother (Reply 6):

I've just checked the OAG and only AF AZ and BV show flights ...

I don't know... Did you try all days? because it's not a daily service as I said... I tried to join OMG but it seems you have to pay to login...

Ciao  wave 
Joe
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: EK-split In Italy, One More A332 In Favour Of Nice

Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:46 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 4):
Does EK have traffic rights between NCE and FCO?

Answer: No.

DOEK95
* 1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO * EK 95 0 MO 27MAR
APT ARR DY DEP DY CLASS/MEAL EQP GRND EFT TTL
DXB 0715 MO FAJCYWMBKQH/M 773 6:20
LTV/M
FCO 1135 MO 1235 MO FAJCYWMBKQH/M 1:00 1:15
LTV/M
NCE 1350 MO 8:35

COMMENTS-
1.FCO NCE - A/ NO TRAFFIC PERMITTED


I'm told that they need the stopover in FCO to refuel because the runway at NCE isn't long enough for the 773 to take off with sufficient fuel to get all the way to DXB. They use the 3-class 773 because of all the high-yield traffic between NCE and the Gulf.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
JoeCattoli
Topic Author
Posts: 491
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:06 am

RE: EK-split In Italy, One More A332 In Favour Of Nice

Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:59 am

well... NCE runway is almost 3000 (2960) meters... A 777 needs more than that? even MAN is no more than 3048m...

And if true why they couldn't do DXB-NCE-FCO-DXB instead of stopping in FCO on both legs???

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 8):
I'm told that they need the stopover in FCO to refuel because the runway at NCE isn't long enough for the 773 to take off with sufficient fuel to get all the way to DXB. They use the 3-class 773 because of all the high-yield traffic between NCE and the Gulf.

They used the 3-class even before for FCO-MXP route. But may be you're right... from NCE they can earn good money on high-yeld seats.

Ciao
Joe
 
FCKC
Posts: 1631
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:39 pm

RE: EK-split In Italy, One More A332 In Favour Of Nice

Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:37 am

NCE would also see the A380 in Emirates cs.
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: EK-split In Italy, One More A332 In Favour Of Nice

Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:49 am

Quoting FCKC (Reply 10):
NCE would also see the A380 in Emirates cs.

Correction - the Baie des Anges could see the A380 in Emirates c/s semi-submerged and surrounded by windsurfers as it zooms off the end of the tiny runway into the sea  

[Edited 2006-03-27 18:08:35]
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
foxxray
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 5:06 am

RE: EK-split In Italy, One More A332 In Favour Of Nice

Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:44 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 8):
I'm told that they need the stopover in FCO to refuel because the runway at NCE isn't long enough for the 773 to take off with sufficient fuel to get all the way to DXB

that's totally wrong !!!! NCE t/o rwy is long enough for a 773 at MTOW...
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: EK-split In Italy, One More A332 In Favour Of Nice

Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:08 am

Quoting JoeCattoli (Reply 7):
Not that much I think... Why wouldn't they fly just DXB-NCE-FCO-DXB instead? The extra stop would be non-sense don't you think?

Not if you were flying DXB-FCO - why should you have to endure a stop at NCE a few hundred kms from where you want to be. You would probably overfly Rome - and HATE it!
 
Emirates Skies
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2001 7:00 pm

RE: EK-split In Italy, One More A332 In Favour Of Nice

Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:14 am

EK does not have 5th freedom rights to carry passengers between Rome and Nice.

Most passengers on this flight come from FCO.

Flying the route in a triangular fashion, that is, DXB-FCO-NCE-DXB or DXB-NCE-FCO-DXB would therefore inconvience most of the passengers on this route.
Take nothing but photos, leave nothing but footprints
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: EK-split In Italy, One More A332 In Favour Of Nice

Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:54 pm

Quoting FoxXray (Reply 12):
that's totally wrong !!!! NCE t/o rwy is long enough for a 773 at MTOW...

So why do they stop the flight in both directions at FCO then ? None of their other European services have stops on them.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: EK-split In Italy, One More A332 In Favour Of Nice

Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:52 pm

Quoting JoeCattoli (Reply 7):

I don't know... Did you try all days? because it's not a daily service as I said... I tried to join OMG but it seems you have to pay to login...

Yes, I checked all days. OAG is a pay-service, but my employer pays for it.
 
JoeCattoli
Topic Author
Posts: 491
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:06 am

RE: EK-split In Italy, One More A332 In Favour Of Nice

Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:09 pm

Quoting ANother (Reply 13):
Not if you were flying DXB-FCO - why should you have to endure a stop at NCE a few hundred kms from where you want to be. You would probably overfly Rome - and HATE it



Quoting Emirates Skies (Reply 14):
Flying the route in a triangular fashion, that is, DXB-FCO-NCE-DXB or DXB-NCE-FCO-DXB would therefore inconvience most of the passengers on this route

I see but I don't think they add a stop (landing fees and all the costs of another leg just for passengers comfort... If I would be in Emirates and I wouldn't get the 5th freedom of the air I would fly DXB-NCE-FCO-DXB and explain to my passengers that if they loose in time they get a cheaper ticket thanks to this policy.

Quoting ANother (Reply 16):
Yes, I checked all days. OAG is a pay-service, but my employer pays for it

I see!!! May be you know even when this service started... Because I checked the A.net database and it shows that Emirates flew in Nice even in the past.
In the database you find 4 photos.. 3 are 773s from March 2004 and one is a 772 in 1998 so... do you think that they were diversions or they started the service well before my knowledge? And If they started the service in the past did it stop already in FCO or was it a direct flight? Because when I planned my flight from Italy to DXB (late 2005) and tried MXP it was always a 773 that did the triangular route DXB-FCO-MXP-DXB alternated daily from the DXB-MXP-FCO-DXB route and I'm quite sure of that... There were never consequently days when you were able to go non-stop MXP-DXB like now and I repeat, the service was never A332 like now.
Thanks
Ciao  wave 
Joe

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