QF744
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Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:52 am

I thought someone would have picked up on this..

Long-range is back on the QF radar and they could possibly order 772LRs or A345E's this year, with a proposal due to the QF board by May..

They want new non-stop European and North American destinations.. this means the 787s were for short-haul and Asian flights, as we thought.

Now the extra capital raising last week makes a lot of sense..

Here's the link..

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au.../0,5744,18658317%255E23349,00.html

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dalecary
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Mon Apr 03, 2006 12:03 pm

Old news (and has been discussed in another thread) and in no way does this article make it clear that QF WILL order an ULH aircraft. It just states it's back on the agenda and a proposal MAY go to the board in May.
I'll believe it when I see it.
 
QF744
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Mon Apr 03, 2006 12:31 pm

From sources I have in Qantas, it IS on the radar again now.
I think they will order at least a dozen or so.
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dalecary
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Mon Apr 03, 2006 12:54 pm

Quoting QF744 (Reply 2):
From sources I have in Qantas, it IS on the radar again now.
I think they will order at least a dozen or so.

I hope you are right. Of course, the 772LR is the only type being seriously considered. If QF go for a ULH type, they won't be waiting until 2011 for the 345E, if it ever sees the light of day!
 
cuprita
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:19 pm

The aircraft is the B772LR......Boeing win this order
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Danny
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:21 pm

No doubt it will be 772LR. Airbus shouldn't even waste time on that.
 
pavlin
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:30 pm

I think this will be a small order, compared to 787 last year
 
cuprita
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:31 pm

8-10 frames..........
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brightcedars
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:55 pm

So now the 777-200LR would be able to do SYD-LHR nonstop year-round?

In that case I would no longer be happy if I was an existing 777-200LR or 777-300ER customer with active frames. Is Boeing planning to retrofit current machines to benefit from the added economies?

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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:42 pm

I think for various reasons the 787 in HGW form is in with a chance.
Certainly the 772LR can carry a bigger payload further, but a 787 in HGW form should be able to carry 250pax 9500nm (my gestimate).

If Qantas just want to go hub to hub then the 772LR is probably the craft, but a 787 could be used to open up point to point, in the USA and Europe, and I think the evidence is Qantas are going down the p to p path.

However just to hedge my bets, I doubt Qantas wants to wait till 2012 or so, which counts out the 787 in the short term and the 345 HGW altogether.
In the longer term though I think the 787 is the craft.

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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:02 pm

What about cargo capacity though, would the T7 not be more attractive than a 787 with its cargo capability.
 
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mariner
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:11 pm

I find this a really tedious game.

They've just been through a thorough evaluation of the aircraft - and now they want to do it again?

There is no way they're going to buy a small subfleet of A345's for a very few long range routes, so why pretend?

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Flying Belgian
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:35 pm

Lots of speculation down-under  Wink

When reading this article I have the impression it's still a project not a statement.

But my bet goes on Boeing for that, it's not a big risk to say this.


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gkirk
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:44 pm

Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 8):
Don't count Airbus dead. You ain't seen nothing yet.

Aye, but the A345 still lags a long way behind the 772LR, so if Airbus were to seriously have a chance with this order, then they'd have to do something drastic with the A345.
I also think Boeing have this one sewn up, as well as Singapore Airlines also
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:40 pm

Quoting QF744 (Thread starter):
Now the extra capital raising last week makes a lot of sense..

Well, that was apparently for extra 737s for QF and 32xs for Jetstar.

The long range aircraft decision was going to be made regardless, it was only a matter of when.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 11):
I find this a really tedious game.

Yes Mariner, you know, QF is just mucking around to piss you off specifically  Yeah sure
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dalecary
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:51 pm

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 14):
Well, that was apparently for extra 737s for QF and 32xs for Jetstar.

No, they borrowed for that. The capital raising was a separate issue.
 
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:53 pm

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 14):
Yes Mariner, you know, QF is just mucking around to piss you off specifically Yeah sure

 rotfl 
Now if only airlines worked like that, just to piss off a.netters  Wink
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SpeckSpot
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:00 pm

Does specifying for heavier weight compared to longer range simply mean they want Boeing to take out the extra fuel tanks and increase the payload capacity?
I would have thought that Boeing would give them all those options already.

Or are they asking for structural redesign of parts of the 772LR to reduce weight?

Or are they simply asking again to get a different (hopefully reduced) price on the same product?
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:16 pm

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...+flight+record%2c+Brussels+to.html

From the above article in Flight, it says - "The still air distance from Sydney to London Heathrow is 17,000km but allowances for headwinds and minimum fuel reserves require a range of 17,600km. The official range of the -200LR is currently 17,400km, based on 301 passengers with three auxiliary fuel tanks."

It sounds like they're very very close!
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pilotdude09
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:20 pm

QF also had a major influence in designing the 777 but they are the only airline who helped design it who did not order it so surley they would order the 777
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PyroGX41487
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:23 pm

If you think the A345E is out of this game, you don't know Leahy.

Besides, why would they be considering both at once if it was already a done deal? Use your heads, you guys.
 
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:30 pm

Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 8):
So now the 777-200LR would be able to do SYD-LHR nonstop year-round?

No, the quoted article clearly states that the aircraft would be used to fly to DFW, not to LHR. It also re-iterates that neither the A nor the B aircraft are suitable for SYD-LHR.
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zeke
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:33 pm

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 18):
"The still air distance from Sydney to London Heathrow is 17,000km but allowances for headwinds and minimum fuel reserves require a range of 17,600km. The official range of the -200LR is currently 17,400km, based on 301 passengers with three auxiliary fuel tanks."

SYD-LHR 9350 nm (YSSY->DCT->KAT-A576-BLI-W13-SIPUT-A576-TI-A464-SJ-G579-VJR-R325-VIH-W531-VPL-B579-PUT-L759-KKJ-B209-MEMID-L333-BAVOX-B209-INTIL-L333-TIGER-3E100-BI-G202N-ZB-L750-RANAH-UV838-AFGAN-A240-MAMED-A87-AMATA-A83-NALEM-UA83-PEKIT-UL980-DORER-UA87-USTIL-UL980-ETEBO-UG9-RKN-UL480-GORLO-UL980-LOGAN->DCT->EGLL) plus seasonal headwinds, I would guess this on average would add another 400 nm.

LHR-SYD 9405 nm (EGLL->DCT->BPK-UM185-CLN-UL620-BASNO-UL603-ARNEM-UG9-ETEBO-UL980-BEMBI-UA87-PW-UL984-FASAD-B493-ROSNI-B946-KS-G246-AMATA-A87-MAMED-A240-AFGAN-UV838-RANAH-L750-ZB-G202N-BI-3E100-TIGER-L333-KKJ-L759-PUT-B579-VPL-W531-VIH-R325-VJR-G579-SJ-A464-TI-A576-PKS-H319-TARAL-Y59-RIVET->DCT->YSSY)

A345E would have another step again on range above the 772LR with the additional 3 tanks, however its a long time off, if at all. 345 pilots would be able to MFF onto the A380.

Think the 787HGW that QF were looking at had a range mentioned somewhere of close to 9500nm.

Does not matter what aircraft they use, they will need to get CASA approval for flights that are longer than currently legally allowed under Australian law. The cabin crew compliment I would suggest would be close to or equal to a 744, and pax numbers down to provide rest facilities.

In line with current rules of maximum flight time per duty, I am guessing the aircraft would have one captain, two first officers, and two second officers.

Given the recent additional order of 787s, I wonder how QF plan to crew these aircraft. The QF pilot union is actively promoting the arrangement of being able to arrange interviews with other carriers (EK being the main one). From what I understand new hire QF second officers are being offered sub standard Singapore basings, the attraction to join QF is fast washing off.
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zeke
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:42 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 21):
No, the quoted article clearly states that the aircraft would be used to fly to DFW, not to LHR. It also re-iterates that neither the A nor the B aircraft are suitable for SYD-LHR.

DFW-SYD by airways is 7989 nm
SYD-DFW by airways is 8073 nm
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PyroGX41487
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:43 pm

Lets be real now, how many regular flyers and non-buisness class travelers would fly this route as it were? London-Sydney, granted, is a long way. Think SIN-EWR on the A345. Either way, the plane will need to have at least 10% (maybe I'm being liberal, here?) or more of its seats removed for the sake of passenger comfort.

Or maybe more, honestly.

Point is, from a passenger and freight standpoint, either aircraft goes. Its just range thats an issue. After all, they'll still have other a/c to carry the majority of the frieight -- the ones that stop over, that is.
 
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zeke
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:01 am

Quoting PyroGX41487 (Reply 24):
Lets be real now, how many regular flyers and non-buisness class travelers would fly this route as it were? London-Sydney, granted, is a long way. Think SIN-EWR on the A345. Either way, the plane will need to have at least 10% (maybe I'm being liberal, here?) or more of its seats removed for the sake of passenger comfort.

The SQ 345s have 181 seats, Y class has 117 seats in a 2-3-2 configuration, with a seat pitch of 37" and a seat-back recline of 8", and a seat width of 20", a leather adjustable headrest, an innovative leg rest and foot rest, and a 9" personal video monitor for in-flight entertainment and AC power outlets.

J class is in a 2-2-2 seat layout, with a larger seat pitch of 64", bed width of 26" and a bed length of 78", as well as an adjustable headrest, leg rest and lumbar support. The 10.4" personal video monitor and an AC power outlet.
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:26 am

Quoting Danny (Reply 5):
No doubt it will be 772LR. Airbus shouldn't even waste time on that.



Quoting PyroGX41487 (Reply 20):
If you think the A345E is out of this game, you don't know Leahy.

Besides, why would they be considering both at once if it was already a done deal? Use your heads, you guys.

This RFP will almost certainly be won by Boeing, if won at all. The reason why QF want Airbus in the bidding is to get a lower price from Boeing. The reason why Airbus are bidding is that they also want Boeing to make less profit so that Boeing have less money to spend developing the B737RS.
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:58 am

I'm thinking Boeing will win this with a (10) firm and (8) option for their SYD-LHR-SYD and SYD-DFW-SYD routes.

Where is this big SQ order yet still to come?  confused 
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RedChili
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:14 am

Reading between the lines, the article actually confirms that Qantas has given up on plans of flying SYD-LHR nonstop.

See the following quotes:

Quote:
talks were continuing with manufacturers about using ultra-long-range planes to open up additional destinations in the US and Europe.

London is not an additional destination; Dallas is.

If they want nonstop flights to additional destinations in Europe, I would suggest that the Oneworld hub in HEL would be a good choice. SYD-HEL is 986 nm shorter than SYD-LHR.

The article also stated:

Quote:
Mr Gregg said Qantas was still interested in ultra-long-range aircraft capable of flying nonstop to London and New York but the planes currently could not do this with the required number of passengers.

This really sounds like they've given up on flying to London with the current airplanes, and they are instead asking Airbus and Boeing where they can fly with the existing models.
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gkyip
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:14 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 21):
So now the 777-200LR would be able to do SYD-LHR nonstop year-round?

The question, as pointed out by PyroGX41487, is will passengers be happy to endure a flight of such length? I know that business travellers will appreciate the 2 or 3 hours shaved off travel time by thinking in terms of what work they could do in 2-3 hours, but leisure travellers will surely opt for the more comfortable 1 stop journey in SIN, or HKG, or BKK etc?

Perhaps the introduction of an all business class service on this route would prove successful? Comments?

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gigneil
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:27 am

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 27):
I'm thinking Boeing will win this with a (10) firm and (8) option for their SYD-LHR-SYD and SYD-DFW-SYD routes.

The plane cannot fly SYD-LHR-SYD. QF have said it cannot be profitably done.

N
 
leigh pilgrim
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:32 am

Only my own opinion, although I would love to see A 777 in Qantas colours, I can see Airbus selling their A340's to them at rock bottom prices, they have nothing to loose, and for the sack of saving money, Qantas may just go for the cheap deal, not necessary the better aircraft
 
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:36 am

Quoting Leigh pilgrim (Reply 31):
I can see Airbus selling their A340's to them at rock bottom prices, they have nothing to loose

Airbus would probably be happy to sell A340s to QF for the smallest of profits, both because they would make money later on parts and service and to keep Boeing from getting the sale. However, I don't believe Airbus would sell them at a loss.
 
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Revelation
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:36 am

Quoting Leigh pilgrim (Reply 31):
Qantas may just go for the cheap deal, not necessary the better aircraft

I think they regret getting the A330s on the cheap, though...
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:59 am

Quoting Gkyip (Reply 29):
but leisure travellers will surely opt for the more comfortable 1 stop journey in SIN, or HKG, or BKK etc?

Have you ever flown the "more comfortable 1 stop journey" via SIN, HKG or BKK? It's not fun at all. Fly for hours, land. Stay in the airport for an hour, with the knowledge that you have to get back on the plane and have another 12 or 13 hours sardined into your seat.

Absolutely not more comfortable unless you plan to break your journey in one of those stop off points for a day or two.

I'd take the non-stop over the one stop any day of the week.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 33):
I think they regret getting the A330s on the cheap, though...

It was misguided of them to order it for short haul one to two hour flights with 30 minute turnarounds. Their own fault there. Least the 332s are being deployed to Jetstar for international ops.

Interestingly enough, another post I read is correct - all the A332 flights are gone from the Qantas system. I was checking FF flights for next year, and last week it showed 332s from MEL to PER and now all the days have a 763 on the route.
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kaneporta1
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:06 am

There is no such thing as a A345E!
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:27 am

Quoting Kaneporta1 (Reply 35):
There is no such thing as a A345E!

Well, I suppose the question is will there be an A345E.
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:49 am

Quoting SpeckSpot (Reply 17):
Or are they asking for structural redesign of parts of the 772LR to reduce weight?

Look at postings 27 and 33 in RE: Customers Press Boeing To Make Early 787-10 Dec (by Widebodyphotog Feb 5 2006 in Civil Aviation)#ID2588917

Some of the discussed weight saving possibilities for the -200ER can also be applied to the -200LR, I would say.
I don't think we have seen the last word on a weight saving program for the -LR.
This might put the type over the 10,000nm still air figure that QF called for.
A lot a chatter about DFW but I am convinced that NYC is equally likely.
The problem for QF has to be the poor standard of AA product and service that its passengers must interline with.
My son flew SYD-LAX-JFK two or three months ago in QF business class; he said the AA offering from LAX-JFK was pretty abysmal. He chose to return with CX via HKG , a longer flight but much superior qualitywise.
 
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:55 am

What would be the range of the A345E

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widebodyphotog
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:14 am

Quoting Kaneporta1 (Reply 35):
There is no such thing as a A345E!



Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 36):
Well, I suppose the question is will there be an A345E.

It is my understanding that the A340 "E" study is dead and will bear no fruit...


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flydreamliner
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:14 am

Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 8):
So now the 777-200LR would be able to do SYD-LHR nonstop year-round?

In that case I would no longer be happy if I was an existing 777-200LR or 777-300ER customer with active frames. Is Boeing planning to retrofit current machines to benefit from the added economies?

Don't count Airbus dead. You ain't seen nothing yet.

The 772LR could do London-Sydney, but not at full rated payload all year round. Whether this means QF will weight limit them during stronger wind seasons, or Boeing will offer additional fuel tanks, I don't know. What I do know is that Either way, 772LR flies further, faster, with more payload, on less fuel than A345, and therefor it's the more attractive plane.

You're right, we 'ain't seen nothin from airbus yet' The A345 is a dissapointment, the A346 isn't much better. They get outsold for a reason. A346 isn't even a paper airplane, it's a dream at this point. It might see the light of day by what, 2012. It'll still be less structurally efficient than 777, because they won't let the old cross section from A300, never meant to be stretched to 246ft die. A346E would just be like A346, a hackjob solution, a stop-gap trying to catch up when what is needed is a whole new aircraft. Why would QF wait till 2012 for A346E when 772LR can do now, likely without any modifications, what it will do.

Quoting PyroGX41487 (Reply 20):
If you think the A345E is out of this game, you don't know Leahy.

Sure. Well, Leahy has customers who think his A350 is inferior to 787 (because it is) - and he's getting outsold heavily. No one believes his 1200 frame forecast for A380, in fact some say he'll be lucky to break even on the project. A340 is being shamefully outsold by 777, for good reason, and Boeing is producing an aircraft to replace 737/A320 that will beat them both, so he now has to do the same, come up with a new A320 replacement, lest loose his one succesful product line. I'd say Mr. Leahy has his hands full. Airbus is almost in over their heads right now, and they have to start picking their priorities. They had Boeing in a corner just 5 years ago and they messed it up.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 32):
Airbus would probably be happy to sell A340s to QF for the smallest of profits, both because they would make money later on parts and service and to keep Boeing from getting the sale. However, I don't believe Airbus would sell them at a loss.

Airbus has been reportedly selling A340s at a loss to keep fleets from buying Boeing, so as to keep fleet commonality on Airbus' side. I'm sure Airbus would offer them a great price, but I think QF also might be too smart to take it.

Quoting Kaneporta1 (Reply 35):
There is no such thing as a A345E!

Amen.
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mariner
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:28 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 14):
Yes Mariner, you know, QF is just mucking around to piss you off specifically

I don't understand the point of making that comment.

It is still a game - unless you believe there is a genuine chance they would order a small subfleet of A340's - any variant.

mariner
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:33 am

Quoting Widebodyphotog (Reply 39):
It is my understanding that the A340 "E" study is dead and will bear no fruit...

Well, that's what has been said here recently as well. I suppose there won't be any official confirmation. Too bad for Boeing. It increases the likelihood that Airbus will come out with a new family to target the 773ER and 748I. On the plus side, I can't see them addressing this market with an existing cross section, which will complicate their business model.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
boeingfever777
Posts: 1990
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:37 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 30):
The plane cannot fly SYD-LHR-SYD. QF have said it cannot be profitably done.

Yes, it can just not year round with full payload... Also have to wait and see if they could add additional space for fuel. The A345 is a dead a/c and will very fly in QF livery.
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KDTWflyer
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:35 am

Well it looks like JFK-SYD or ORD-SYD would be possible as both of those routes are shorter than SYD-LHR.

SYD-LHR 17016 km 10573 mi 9188 nm
JFK-SYD 16013 km 9950 mi 8646 nm
ORD-SYD 14857 km 9232 mi 8022 nm

oR maybe.. just maybe DTW-SYD lol

DTW-SYD 15233 km 9466 mi 8225 nm
 
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zeke
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:24 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 34):
Interestingly enough, another post I read is correct - all the A332 flights are gone from the Qantas system. I was checking FF flights for next year, and last week it showed 332s from MEL to PER and now all the days have a 763 on the route.

332 going to JQ for its range, if a 763ER could do what they are planning they would have used them. Additional 333s being sourced for JQ.
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zvezda
Posts: 8886
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:43 am

Quoting Widebodyphotog (Reply 39):

It is my understanding that the A340 "E" study is dead and will bear no fruit...



Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 42):
Too bad for Boeing. It increases the likelihood that Airbus will come out with a new family to target the 773ER and 748I.

A clean-sheet Airbus to take on the B777-300ER and B747-8I wouldn't be good for Boeing, but it would be great for the airlines and their passengers. The simplest and least expensive (perhaps not the best) Boeing response would be a B787-11X.
 
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zeke
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:55 am

Quoting KDTWFlyer (Reply 44):
SYD-LHR 17016 km 10573 mi 9188 nm
JFK-SYD 16013 km 9950 mi 8646 nm
ORD-SYD 14857 km 9232 mi 8022 nm

oR maybe.. just maybe DTW-SYD lol

DTW-SYD 15233 km 9466 mi 8225 nm

SYD-LHR-SYD airway distances listed above
SYD-ORD 8500 nm
ORD-SYD 8399 nm
SYD-JFK 9131 nm
SYD-DTW 8697 nm
DTW-SYD 8606 nm
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
trex8
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:41 am

zeke
is there a website where one can easily calculate airways distances??
 
flydreamliner
Posts: 1928
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RE: Offical: QF To Order 772LR Or A345E

Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:36 am

If they can talk Boeing into fitting another aux fuselage tank into 772LR, they would be able to have it run the route SYD-LHR. In the worst seasons for wind, they may have to slightly limit payload. Either way, 772 carries more cargo than 744, and they can both charge a premium for the direct flight, save on the tech stop in DXB, and potentially in more utilization of the aircraft for flying. It makes good sense for them, I think. If they buy either, I really believe it will be 772LR
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