I am sorry if this has been discussed, but I would like some updates on this. Alaska Airlines has decided to stop using their 26 MD-83. does anyone know if it is decided who will buy these birds? Some of AS MD-80's are pretty new.
Also with all their orders for the 737NG, is it decided that their old 732 and 734 are going as well? In that case to which costumer?
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Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting OyKIE (Thread starter): Also with all their orders for the 737NG, is it decided that their old 732 and 734 are going as well? In that case to which costumer? |
I don't think they will be putting costumes on any airplane, unless you count Salmon Three Salmon
(the word is Customer). Anyway, the 734s aren't going anywhere. They share a common type rating with the 73G/8/9 which are all in the AS fleet and are still very economical within their range band. Several 734s are being converted into FAA-approved fixed wall combis with 70 Y seats and a large fixed maindeck cargo area. These will allow the 732 Combis to finally be retired. The 734 fleet will remain for the near future.Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
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- wedgetail737
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RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
My guess is that some of the MD-80's will go to Allegiant Air.
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting N1120A (Reply 1): (the word is Customer). |
Oops. My mistake. Second time, this day
Anyway. Any customer for the MD-80, or are they still for sale?
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
any takers on YX??? huh-huh?
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
heard a rumor that Delta is looking at them.
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 4): any takers on YX??? huh-huh? |
Probably not, given their financial situation. I can see the DL deal, though they would have to recertify their pilots on the MD83s at AS, because the MD88 and MD90 are on different TCs
| Quoting Tod (Reply 5): Will the 734 combis be compatible with the dirt/snow runways that the 732Q visit? |
I would assume that they will equip them with gravel kits
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- flyingnanook
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RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting Tod (Reply 5): Will the 734 combis be compatible with the dirt/snow runways that the 732Q visit? |
No need, all the runways Alaska flies to have been paved. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Red Dog Mine was the last gravel one.
Semper ubi sub ubi.
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting N1120A (Reply 7): I can see the DL deal, though they would have to recertify their pilots on the MD83s at AS, because the MD88 and MD90 are on different TCs |
the training to take a DL MD-88 pilot and certify him on the 83 would be about a four hour differences course and maybe one sim. Could be done very, very quickly. From a maintenance standpoint, the planes are very similar. Not saying it will happen, but have heard it talked about. DL not interested in them for the long term, just to get some short term extra lift.
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting Tod (Reply 5): Will the 734 combis be compatible with the dirt/snow runways that the 732Q visit? |
| Quoting FlyingNanook (Reply 8): No need, all the runways Alaska flies to have been paved. |
I am pretty much sure this is true. That being said, I was of the understanding that they also had some serious upgrades in avionics equipment, because despite having paved runways, the navigation and other instruments in many places are still far behind the times in bush AK.
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- worldtraveler
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RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
so the MD83 doesn't have a glass cockpit but the differences are minimal? is that correct?
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 11): so the MD83 doesn't have a glass cockpit but the differences are minimal? is that correct? |
correct.
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
How about Northwest to replace the DC-9's? 
Fly & Work Safe
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Fly & Work Safe
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If Your Dying Were Flying
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting N1120A (Reply 7): Probably not, given their financial situation. |
Naah I figured as much; that was just for the hell of it really
| Quoting AirEMS (Reply 13): How about Northwest to replace the DC-9's? |
This, on the other hand, would be somewhat of a likelihood of happening. Would the fact that they're in bk matter with this or not?
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- flydreamliner
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RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting AirEMS (Reply 13): How about Northwest to replace the DC-9's? duck Fly & Work Safe -Carl |
NW has been offered MD-80s so many times by so many people. They are not the least bit interested. They've started replacing some DC-9 routes with A319 service, and other thinner routes covered by the DC-9s will be serviced by either CRJ-700 or ERJ-175 (yet to be decided) which NW is currently looking into ordering.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting AirEMS (Reply 13): How about Northwest to replace the DC-9's? |
 Photo © Joe Pries - ATR Team |  Photo © AirNikon |
They had 'em, but they hated 'em. They were significantly different than the DC-9's, which meant more money for training. Also, I think they didn't like them because they already had A320's.
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- CRGsFuture
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RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
I think Allegant is really the best fit for them. That or the desert.
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- CanadianNorth
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RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting N1120A (Reply 7): I would assume that they will equip them with gravel kits |
The vortex dicipators fitted to the JT8Ds of the 737 series 200 as part of a gravel kit don't work on the CFM powered 737s (which is every model from the -300 up).
CanadianNorth
HS-748, like a 747 but better!
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- vegasplanes
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RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 16): They had 'em, but they hated 'em. They were significantly different than the DC-9's, which meant more money for training. Also, I think they didn't like them because they already had A320's. |
Also the fact that the NW MD-80 fleet was nothing, 7 or 8 frames from Republic, which I believed were originally ordered by North Central. The crash in '87 did not help matters.
As for AS old Dogs, I would think G4 or YX would be the most likely candidates. YX flies the MD-81, which should be pretty similar to AS planes. G4 would have no problem with them, they fly all sorts of Mad Dogs, including the MD-87.
Here's a wild idea, would AA take a few to knock out some of their early build Mad Dogs as C or D checks come up. The oldest of the AS birds is at least a half dozen years newer than the oldest AA birds. Might be cheaper to buy a younger plane and retro-fit to AA specs. than to over-haul an aging aircraft.
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- andrewuber
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RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
Alaska has at least one 734 fresh out of conversion, I was led to believe it was a freighter - not a combi. More will come soon.
As for DL taking AS's MadDogs, I wouldn't hold my breath on it.
As for DL taking AS's MadDogs, I wouldn't hold my breath on it.
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
I was trying to stir the whole NW DC-9 Replacement running post... It was a joke
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RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
Allegiant might be interested in the short term depending upon prices and aircraft condition. They are usually picky about the aircraft they take.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 19): YX flies the MD-81, which should be pretty similar to AS planes. |
They've already retired some of their oldest MD-80 family a/c. The rumor is that they may be the ones to take the DL MD-90 fleet.
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 22): Allegiant might be interested in the short term depending upon prices and aircraft condition. They are usually picky about the aircraft they take. |
Namely, old and cheap
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- HikesWithEyes
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RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting Tod (Reply 5): Will the 734 combis be compatible with the dirt/snow runways that the 732Q visit? |
| Quoting FlyingNanook (Reply 8): but I believe Red Dog Mine was the last gravel one. |
The runway at Red Dog has been paved. There is no need to equip the 734
with gravel gear.
| Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 20): Alaska has at least one 734 fresh out of conversion |
The conversion has been completed, but the aircraft is now undergoing an
SI check, so it isn't flying in service yet.
First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting N1120A (Reply 24): Namely, old and cheap |
LOL, no lets not give people the wrong idea.
Alaska's fleet of MD-83s was built between 1990 and 1997.
Allegiant's fleet of MD-83s was built between 1987 and 1996. Most recently they have been taking aircraft built after 1994.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 26): Alaska's fleet of MD-83s was built between 1990 and 1997. Allegiant's fleet of MD-83s was built between 1987 and 1996. Most recently they have been taking aircraft built after 1994. |
Would that mean that the average age of an AS 83 is ever so slightly younger than that of Allegiant?
Old and cheap? OLD? Somewhat of a confusion between the MD83 and the DC9. THAT is old... LBJ was still President when those birds took to the skies...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 27): Would that mean that the average age of an AS 83 is ever so slightly younger than that of Allegiant? |
Yep.
Mean age of Allegiant MD-83s is about 16 years.
Mean age of Alaska's MD-83s is about 14 years.
(Give or take one or two aircraft ages that I may have wrong.)
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
Aeropostal is actively looking for MD80s to replace their fleet of 25 DC9s. Since late 2004 they have been adding a "new" MD80 to their fleet every 6 weeks. The latest MDs are coming from Spirit. They also need MDs for their new affialiate airline based in Costa Rica (SJO).
Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 Photo © Ben Wang |  Photo © Omar Saffe - Spot This! |
Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting Tod (Reply 5): Will the 734 combis be compatible with the dirt/snow runways that the 732Q visit? |
| Quoting N1120A (Reply 7): I would assume that they will equip them with gravel kits |
| Quoting FlyingNanook (Reply 8): Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Red Dog Mine was the last gravel one. |
See what I get for sleeping days and working nights.
Correct, Red Dog was paved last summer.
As I understood it from a previous thread on the 734 conversions the Gravel Kits wouldn't work on a 734s engines - intake too large, and too low to the ground for the vortex dissipators to be effective.
Now a moot point with paved runways.
| Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 20): Alaska has at least one 734 fresh out of conversion, I was led to believe it was a freighter - not a combi. More will come soon. |
Pure freighter, N709AS I believe . . . there's a thread with a picture of it right out of the paint shop somewhere in Civ-Av.
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- mke717spotter
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RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting Srbmod (Reply 23): They've already retired some of their oldest MD-80 family a/c. The rumor is that they may be the ones to take the DL MD-90 fleet. |
YX is supposed to announce an order of either airbus or boeing in about a year or so to replace the MD-80's so I dont think they'd take them but I certainly would be happy if they did.
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 11): so the MD83 doesn't have a glass cockpit but the differences are minimal? is that correct? |
SAS MD-81
Photo © Johan Kellerman
Alaska MD-83
Photo © LEBL
Delta MD-88
Photo © Darrin Glenday
American MD-81
Photo © C.S. Photography
It seems like SAS and Delta has invested more in their cockpits. Are there any economical or reliability differences? It seems like it would be cheaper for American to integrate AS MD-80 than Delta or SAS for that matter.
On a side-note :Why don't any airlines opt for the 717 cockpit design?
Hawaiian 717
Photo © Quinn Savit
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 17): I think Allegant is really the best fit for them. That or the desert. |
Yes, sure, if you assume that there is no other country than the USA in the world....
| Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 29): Aeropostal is actively looking for MD80s to replace their fleet of 25 DC9s. Since late 2004 they have been adding a "new" MD80 to their fleet every 6 weeks. The latest MDs are coming from Spirit. They also need MDs for their new affialiate airline based in Costa Rica (SJO). |
Correct, and there will be two more coming withing the next two months replacing DC9.
But I also see a lot of other airlines that could be interested, not only US-carriers.
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting OyKIE (Reply 32): It seems like SAS and Delta has invested more in their cockpits. Are there any economical or reliability differences? It seems like it would be cheaper for American to integrate AS MD-80 than Delta or SAS for that matter. |
It's not really a case of SAS and Delta investing more than American. It's a case of what was avaliable when AA first ordered the MD-80. In thgis case steam gauges. When CRT HSI/ADI became avaliable that's what AA took. Right now AA is replacing all the steam guage HSI/ADI on it's older MD-80's with LCD displays.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting OyKIE (Reply 32):
It seems like it would be cheaper for American to integrate AS MD-80 than Delta or SAS for that matter. |
It probably would be since American has such a large fleet of MD-80's, and a bit of a diverse one at that.
| Quoting OyKIE (Reply 32):
American MD-81 |
Just a "for the record" note.....AA never purchased any MD-81's. They got a few when they aquired TWA, but they parked all of them in the desert. Currently they only fly -82's and -83's.
| Quoting OyKIE (Reply 32):
On a side-note :Why don't any airlines opt for the 717 cockpit design? |
I'd only be venturing a guess in saying the cost would be astronomical to do so. To bring a MD-82 from looking like they do now to that of a 717 would almost be like FedEx's short-lived plan of converting their 727-200's into a 2-crew aircraft. Just look at the pedestal on the MD-82, and the 717, and think how much work would have to go into converting just that one section of the cockpit. Besides, while the 717 has its roots in a McDonnell Douglas design, it has a lot of Boeing overture in it, which would make a MD-80 conversion to a Boeing cockpit another degree harder than it would be otherwise!!
-Max
[Edited 2006-04-19 21:04:15]
[Edited 2006-04-19 21:05:42]
The 777-200LR......2 engines 4 longer haul
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting LMP737 (Reply 34): It's not really a case of SAS and Delta investing more than American. It's a case of what was avaliable when AA first ordered the MD-80. In thgis case steam gauges. When CRT HSI/ADI became avaliable that's what AA took. Right now AA is replacing all the steam guage HSI/ADI on it's older MD-80's with LCD displays. |
Hey. Cool. Maybe they can save a few bucks on training the pilots to keep operating certificate for both cockpit's?
| Quoting MaxQ2351 (Reply 35): It probably would be since American has such a large fleet of MD-80's, and a bit of a diverse one at that. |
On a sidenote: Does anyone know what it costs to transfer the ownership of an airplane from one airline to another?
| Quoting MaxQ2351 (Reply 35): Just a "for the record" note.....AA never purchased any MD-81's. They got a few when they aquired TWA, but they parked all of them in the desert. Currently they only fly -82's and -83's. |
Thank you for the information. I was not aware of that.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 12): Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 11): so the MD83 doesn't have a glass cockpit but the differences are minimal? is that correct? correct. |
Allegiant might not be interested, not all that long ago they went to an all glass cockpit on there MD-80's I believe, and the AS ones aren't a full glass cockpit.
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting OyKIE (Reply 36): Hey. Cool. Maybe they can save a few bucks on training the pilots to keep operating certificate for both cockpit's? |
It's still the same certificate whether it has steam gauges or CRT's. However AA will save money on maintenance costs becasue the steam guages cost more to maintain. In additon it will save on pilot training since they will no longer have to train pilots to use the CRT type dispaly along with the steam gauge HSI/ADI.
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- frugalqxnwa
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RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
One scenario I see is DL taking the AS MD-83s as a short term replacement for their MD-90s. It gets the IAE V2500 engine out of their fleet entirely, and the aircraft are very similar to the MD-88s in the fleet for maintenance and pilot training. It would be a good way to help reduce costs since they're already in Ch11.
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
Perhaps AS could sell them to a leasing company who in turn could lease them to DL, AA or foreign operators for short to middle term needs at a good rate and are $$'s short of capital. DL or other airlines could then dump high lease a/c or one's that are fleet oddballs or reaching major MX checks.
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- worldtraveler
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RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting Frugalqxnwa (Reply 39): One scenario I see is DL taking the AS MD-83s as a short term replacement for their MD-90s. It gets the IAE V2500 engine out of their fleet entirely, and the aircraft are very similar to the MD-88s in the fleet for maintenance and pilot training. It would be a good way to help reduce costs since they're already in Ch11. |
possible but the MD90s are entirely owned. Given there is no market for the MD90s, DL would be taking a serious haircut by dumping one airplane, even if it is an odd one, to take on another one. Unless there is a compelling cost/benefit, creditors frown on that type of stuff in reorganizations because it is expensive and hurts their prospects for recovery.
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 40): Perhaps AS could sell them to a leasing company who in turn could lease them to DL, AA or foreign operators for short to middle term needs at a good rate and are $$'s short of capital. DL or other airlines could then dump high lease a/c or one's that are fleet oddballs or reaching major MX checks. |
AS does not own all the the MD's they operate. Ten of them are leased.
Harris
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 31): YX is supposed to announce an order of either airbus or boeing in about a year or so to replace the MD-80's so I dont think they'd take them but I certainly would be happy if they did. |
That would be rather sweet if they did take the MD90s, but I do see them possibly taking a 73G or A320 myself... If they'd take a 73G then they'd be very similar to FL, with fleet of 717 and 737 aircraft... If they want aircraft for 170/180 and up, then they might want to take up the 738 or 739... Just a thought...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
RE: Who Is Taking The Alaska MD-80's?
| Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 41): possible but the MD90s are entirely owned. Given there is no market for the MD90s, DL would be taking a serious haircut by dumping one airplane, even if it is an odd one, to take on another one. |
That's right!
The only plane I see DL replacing the MD-90s with would be more 738s. The 738s, like the MD-90s, can pull a full load out of DL's SLC hub on a hot day, while the MD-88 or 83 are payload restricted.
My guess is that Boeing may just take the AS MD's in trade and try to find homes for them through their leasing arm. As previously mentioned, Aeropostal is looking for some MD-80s. AA could cherry pick one or two of the newer ones, etc..
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