md90fan
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Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:30 am

Who do you guys think will scoop up RG's planes in the even that they go under? Even add MH to the topic too  Smile
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
skysurfer
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:34 am

This is a total guess.....but how about either Aeroflot cargo, Fedex or Finnair fight over those MD-11's for passenger/cargo versions?

Cheers
In the dark you can't see ugly, but you can feel fat
 
PSA727
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:39 am

The entities that actually own them.
After that...MD-11s to FedEx.
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
JJMNGR
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:53 am

If JJ would not assume some while changes to Airbuses they might go to FEDEX
 
CAL
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:59 am

CO would love the 777's
 
andaman
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:59 am

Quoting SkySurfer (Reply 1):
This is a total guess.....but how about either Aeroflot cargo, Fedex or Finnair fight over those MD-11's for passenger/cargo versions?

Cheers

Hardly any more MD-11s for Finnair, they have ordered A340s and A350s, first A340 coming this summer.

Finnair bought one from RG (OH-LGG) and they were not happy what they got, lot of problems showed up.

[Edited 2006-04-23 05:06:51]
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
Jj
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:00 pm

Quoting CAL (Reply 4):
CO would love the 777's

And perhaps the 767's too (although they are 300's), they kind of need them!
AR was reportedly looking for 737's... perhaps they could end up with a couple old 300's...
 
antiuser
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:14 pm

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 3):
If JJ would not assume some while changes to Airbuses they might go to FEDEX

Is that a possibility? I know TAM is very conservative regarding their business decisions, but in a situation like this they would need a larger fleet and they would need it fast! Would JJ then hire ex-RG crews (since they're already rated for the equipment and will be available)?
Azzurri Campioni del Mondo!
 
ajiggity3
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:19 pm

They have a couple 757's too right? If so I would think CAL would want them or maybe even United.
 
CRGsFuture
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:22 pm

I think CO and FX would be the top two, behind the companies that own them. FX with the MD-11's and CO with the 763's and 772's. Both would help them in acquiring more widebodies which a lot of people on A.net feel is holding back CO from being the best US carrier into Europe.
Flying you to your destination; your girlfriend to her dreams.
 
antiuser
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:42 pm

CO already had their eyes on some of RG's 777s involved in the whole reposession imbroglio. I wouldn't be surprised if they snagged them, especially VRA and VRB.
Azzurri Campioni del Mondo!
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:21 pm

Do they still have 744s? NZ is looking for an additional 744 and has previously acquired 3 off RG a few years ago.
64 types. 44 countries. 24 airlines.
 
antiuser
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:05 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 11):
Do they still have 744s?

No... they used to have 3 but they left the fleet in 1994 if I recall correctly. RG operated mainly 743s but got rid of them in '99.
Azzurri Campioni del Mondo!
 
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viasa
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:20 pm

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 2):
After that...MD-11s to FedEx.

As I know six of the RG would go to SU and five would go to 5X.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:06 am

This year RG need to return more 2 M11. Also some 735's. All because of the end of the lease agreement.

The 777 parked at JFK (PP-VRE) is just because RG sent the plane to return an engine to the lessor.

Be in mind that ANAC (Brazilian Civil Aviation Dept.) keep plans for a contingency operation which need RG planes operated by Tam and Gol.

Quoting Ajiggity3 (Reply 8):
They have a couple 757's too right? If so I would think CAL would want them or maybe even United.

4 in fact, and they made a deal with Pegasus and will take 2 more very soon.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
JJMNGR
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:36 am

ng

Quoting Antiuser (Reply 7):
Is that a possibility? I know TAM is very conservative regarding their business decisions, but in a situation like this they would need a larger fleet and they would need it fast! Would JJ then hire ex-RG crews (since they're already rated for the equipment and will be available)?

Yes, TAM is conservative on its business decision, but in case of having to assume some other routes in case a RG colapse, it is not a business decison but a contingency plan, probably already articulated with Government. Nobody talks about this officialy but it might be a possibility in terms of assumig some aircraft and also crew. In a second step, they change these aircrafts by Airbuses.
 
wdleiser
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:58 am

LUFTHANSA CARGO WILL TAKE THE MD11's!

Thats my thought atleast.
 
B707Stu
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:58 am

Brazilian government can't afford to let RG go down.
 
MaartenV
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:06 am

Quoting MD90fan (Thread starter):
Even add MH to the topic too

I know that MH isn't really flourishing at the moment, but I think its a bit to early to start dividing MHs planes.

Quoting Antiuser (Reply 10):
CO already had their eyes on some of RG's 777s involved in the whole reposession imbroglio. I wouldn't be surprised if they snagged them, especially VRA and VRB.

I can see them getting VRA and VRB (these 2 are GE powered, aren't they?)
But would the really be interested in the ex-United 777s, which have PW engines (although I know some operators have different engines, I still don't see it as being efficient)?

Quoting Viasa (Reply 13):
As I know six of the RG would go to SU and five would go to 5X.

And you have a source for this?

Will they go anyway, even if RG doesn't collapse?

Is the batch of 5 owned by a different owner than the batch of 6, hence the different futures?

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 14):
The 777 parked at JFK (PP-VRE) is just because RG sent the plane to return an engine to the lessor.

Will it return to service anytime soon?

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 14):
4 in fact, and they made a deal with Pegasus and will take 2 more very soon.

Will this deal still go through with all the negative publicity?

Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 16):
LUFTHANSA CARGO WILL TAKE THE MD11's!

Thats my thought atleast.

Again, do you have a source or some logic, other then the fact that they already operate MD11Fs?
Its all about supply and demand...
 
antiuser
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:20 am

Quoting B707Stu (Reply 17):
Brazilian government can't afford to let RG go down.

RG is a private company and the government has already announced that no money from taxpayers will go to rescuing Varig. As previously stated on this thread, the Brazilian civil aviation authority (DAC) has a contingency plan to keep RG's routes going, at least temporarily.
Azzurri Campioni del Mondo!
 
Triple Seven
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:07 am

MH is not going down anytime soon and it will not happen
 
luv2fly
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:12 am

Quoting B707Stu (Reply 17):
Brazilian government can't afford to let RG go down.

People use to say the same about PA, BN, EA and TW and remind me where are they now?
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:57 am

Quoting B707Stu (Reply 17):
Brazilian government can't afford to let RG go down.

Do you really think they want such a "drain" on the taxpayers as a bailout, worse yet a nationalized company? The later being an AFL-CIO pipe dream, saddling the US taxpayers yet with another Conrail.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:05 am

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 18):
Will it return to service anytime soon?

I don't know exactly if they returned 1 or 2 engines. If they returned only 1 i believe they can mix VRE and VRF good engines to run one of them.

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 18):
Will this deal still go through with all the negative publicity?

I doubt the agreement will protect Pegasus against negative publicity. If they try to break the agreement probably they need to pay a fine to RG. Also i believe these 752's were oferred to other airlines before RG.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 21):
People use to say the same about PA, BN, EA and TW and remind me where are they now?

And how about the federal credit guarantees to AA, UA, DL and CO ? And how about AZ and others ? Many airlines obtain federal assistance, but i doubt the Brazilian Government will directly help RG.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:08 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 11):
Do they still have 744s? NZ is looking for an additional 744 and has previously acquired 3 off RG a few years ago.

NZ only acquired 1 744 from RG that is ZK-SUI, the other 2 747-441's flying are with GA. The other 2 NZ acquired second hand are ZK-SUH a 747-475, built in 1991, NZ picked it up in 1993, i'm not sure if it even flew for another carrier in between. ZK-SUJ was built for PR and is a 747-4F6 was built in 1998 and picked up by NZ the same year along with 2 other 747-4F6's that SAA picked up in 1998.

As to RG's planes it depends what engines they are powered by as to who may or may not pick them up.
 
American777
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:12 am

My best guess is that GOL might take their Boeing 737NG's.
 
aa1818
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:38 am

Quoting Antiuser (Reply 19):
RG is a private company and the government has already announced that no money from taxpayers will go to rescuing Varig. As previously stated on this thread, the Brazilian civil aviation authority (DAC) has a contingency plan to keep RG's routes going, at least temporarily.

I think that Brazil would be lucky if RG goes under. While it will be sad, the upheaval for employees etc, it is a case of a strong airline sector otherwise where I believe most of the employees will be picked up by flourishing GOL or TAM and others perhaps LAN in Brazil etc. The routes will take a while to be fully operated out of a contigency status and fully under another airline's control, but the change over will come. Overall I think it will be quite a healthy thing to happen for Brazilian aviation. Now I may get flamed for saying that, but it is just my opinion. I am open and eager to hear otherwise. Of course an airline going down is never a 'great' thing, but sometimes the harsh effects can be mitigated or avoided as i believe they can in this case. And it wouldn't cost taxpayers much if anything at all.

Cheers
AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
nudelhirsch
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:53 am

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 18):
Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 16):
LUFTHANSA CARGO WILL TAKE THE MD11's!

Thats my thought atleast.

Again, do you have a source or some logic, other then the fact that they already operate MD11Fs?

Well, how about LH purchasing used M11s for a while now?
Putana da Seatbeltz!
 
b6sea
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Mon Apr 24, 2006 12:03 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 23):
And how about the federal credit guarantees to AA, UA, DL and CO ?

That's a little different... The US was in a time of "CRISIS" and the airlines unfortunately took the fallout, the government kept them alive because if they went down, essentially, the surviving airlines in the USA would be inadequate to handle the influx in passengers from those airlines thus causing a transportation problem in the United States...etc...etc...etc.

But, is Varig doing THAT badly?

-Chans
 
MaartenV
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:42 pm

Quoting Nudelhirsch (Reply 27):
Well, how about LH purchasing used M11s for a while now?

I didn't know about that, I thought the last MD11 they received was the last one ever produced and that all their MD11 were factory fresh cargo versions. After I read your post, I started looking around the internet and found out that they actually already have some ex-Varig MD11s, as well as ex-Alitalia, so I guess LH would be a possibility to pick up these MD11s, although they are certainly not the only one.
Its all about supply and demand...
 
SA744
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:26 pm

Lets hope and pray tha SAA will buy the T7,,,,,, suppose no chance but heres hoping
 
HBIHLtoEZE
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:58 pm

Some planes may face the same unfortunate fate as parts ofTransbrasil's and VASP's fleets:



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Nevertheless, I hope that RG stays in the air (there have been many rumours about them going under for about at least five years) or that they could be merged with TAM.

It is just a loss of identity to see those gracious brands vanish...

Cheers
Our battered suitcases were piled on the sidewalk again; we had longer ways to go. But no matter, the road is life.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:51 am

Quoting B6sea (Reply 28):
But, is Varig doing THAT badly?

Hi Chans, interesting post and comment. Note that Varig nowadays is responsible for 70% of all international traffic among brazilian airlines, around 32% of all the pax in the system. This is a US$ 1,5 billion per year in revenue to Brazil that could be lost. Also, imagine only two airlines with almost 90% of the domestic market. I know RG keep a historic bad management, made several bad decisions, but i'm afraid of fares without RG as well as Brazil will need to send more US$ abroad for AA, UA, BA and many others.

Note, if RG could demise FRB, i believe they could take care of their huge debit as the money to be received from the government is at sight while they keep 90% of their debt negotiated for payment during 6 to 10 years.

But they need urgent additional cash as well as put their fleet to fly.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
wdleiser
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:14 am

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 18):
Again, do you have a source or some logic, other then the fact that they already operate MD11Fs?

Well they were super pissed at Boeing for shutting down the MD11 line.
 
JetBlueAUS
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:58 am

Quoting CAL (Reply 4):
CO would love the 777's

Especially if CO wants to further their International expansion.
Not all of us can be heroes, some of us can only stand on the sidewalk and clap as they go by.
 
nudelhirsch
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:44 am

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 29):
I didn't know about that, I thought the last MD11 they received was the last one ever produced and that all their MD11 were factory fresh cargo versions. After I read your post, I started looking around the internet and found out that they actually already have some ex-Varig MD11s, as well as ex-Alitalia, so I guess LH would be a possibility to pick up these MD11s, although they are certainly not the only one.

D-ALCA ~ directly to LH Cargo
D-ALCB ~ first registered to McDonell Douglas, then LH Cargo
D-ALCC ~ directly to LH Cargo
D-ALCD ~ directly to LH Cargo
D-ALCE ~ directly to LH Cargo
D-ALCF ~ directly to LH Cargo
D-ALCG ~ directly to LH Cargo
D-ALCH ~ directly to LH Cargo
D-ALCI ~ directly to LH Cargo
D-ALCJ ~ directly to LH Cargo
D-ALCK ~ first registered to Boeing, then LH Cargo
D-ALCL ~ directly to LH Cargo
D-ALCM ~ first registered to Boeing, then LH Cargo, last M11 built...
D-ALCN ~ directly to LH Cargo
D-ALCO ~ first VASP, then Varig, then LH Cargo
D-ALCP ~ first VASP, then Varig, then LH Cargo, was converted to F
D-ALCQ ~ first with Alitalia, then LH Cargo, was converted to F
D-ALCR ~ first with Alitalia, then LH Cargo, was converted to F
D-ALCS ~ first Alitalia, then LH Cargo

www.airfleets.net is a fine thing...  Smile

So, LH is definitely a potential customer for used M11s, some of them were converted in CGN where LH has tech-facilities...

LH was one of the airlines less happy that the M11 was taken out of production, after that they started to buy used ones, as listed above mainly from RG and AZ...
Putana da Seatbeltz!
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:15 am

According to Aerotransport.org, the fate of RG's MD-11s will be as follows:

PP-VQF, VQH, VQJ*, VQK* > For Aeroflot, 2007 (as freighters)
PP-VTH, VTI, VTJ, VTK > For UPS, 2006
PP-VTP > For UPS, 2007

*-ER variant

Unkown/unconfirmed: PP-VQG, VQX

Best regards,

ZXV
How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
MaartenV
Posts: 261
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:13 am

Quoting LVZXV (Reply 36):
According to Aerotransport.org, the fate of RG's MD-11s will be as follows:

Will RG be able to replace these aircraft, or will their long-haul activities slowly vanish because of a lack of aircraft?
Its all about supply and demand...
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:27 am

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 37):
Will RG be able to replace these aircraft, or will their long-haul activities slowly vanish because of a lack of aircraft?

They will close their doors....
 
CHI787ORD
Posts: 817
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:27 am

RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:04 pm

AI seems to be having a love affair with T7s at the momoent.... my pick is for Air India. Dont they already have an ex-RG bird?

[Edited 2006-04-26 05:31:37]
 
md90fan
Topic Author
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:27 pm

Quoting CHI787ORD (Reply 39):
AI seems to be having a love affair with T7s at the momoent.... my pick is for Air India. Dont they already have an ex-VG bird?

They have 4 ex. UA birds(3 ERs, 1 non ER(A) ) and have 8 77L and 15 773 on order.  Smile

Regards
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
MaartenV
Posts: 261
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:16 am

RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:59 pm

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 38):
They will close their doors....

Yes but supposse they survive on the short to mid term, these planes are going no matter if the fail or not.
Its all about supply and demand...
 
md90fan
Topic Author
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:48 am

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 41):
Yes but supposse they survive on the short to mid term, these planes are going no matter if the fail or not.

I hope they stay afloat  Smile
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
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RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:15 am

According to www.skyliner-aviation.de 4 of RG's 777s have been wfu: PP-VRB, VRD, VRF, VRI. Without 777s or MD-11s, RG's chances of survival do not look good. It seems a little late to look towards Airbus and I doubt that a mix of 744s and 767s could prove to be a suitable replacement. Downhill from here?

Saludos,

ZXV
How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5063
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Who Will Take RG's Planes?

Sun Apr 30, 2006 11:10 am

Quoting LVZXV (Reply 43):
According to www.skyliner-aviation.de 4 of RG's 777s have been wfu: PP-VRB, VRD, VRF, VRI. Without 777s or MD-11s, RG's chances of survival do not look good. It seems a little late to look towards Airbus and I doubt that a mix of 744s and 767s could prove to be a suitable replacement. Downhill from here?

Add to your list another 772 at JFK: PP-VRE.
5 772 (3 ER 2 non-ER), 3 M11, 1 763ER, 1 738, 1 734 and several 733... this is really sad !

Imagine 9 widebodies right now... and with Brazil-Europe flights full... a lot of revenue lost !!!

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !

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