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HALFA
Topic Author
Posts: 1068
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:24 am

Hawaiian To Increase Pago Pago Flights

Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:26 pm

Hawaiian Airlines announced today that they will add a 3rd weekly flight from HNL to PPG due to increased demand during the busy summer travel season. The new flight 1465 will depart HNL on Wednesdays at 7:35am and arrive in PPG at 12:00pm. The new return flight 1466 will depart PPG at 1:50pm and arrive in HNL at 8:00pm. There is a 1 hour time difference between PPG and HNL.
Full news release is here:
http://investor.hawaiianairlines.com...Article_print&ID=848356&highlight=

Aloha,
HALFA
Hawaiian Airlines Since 1929...........
 
koruman
Posts: 2179
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:08 pm

RE: Hawaiian To Increase Pago Pago Flights

Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:41 pm

Pago Pago is the saddest, seediest place I've ever visited. It used to be so beautiful!

And the airport is absolutely disgustingly rundown.

It's a victim of the US cabotage rules, which imagine that American Samoa to Hawaii is a domestic flight, and so open only to US carriers.

Which is sad, because Polynesian Blue would just clean up if they could fly that route and charge sensible fares, rather than the outrageous profiteering of Hawaiian.

There was talk (I'm a bit out of date here) that Polynesian Blue will re-open APW-HNL, but with the 737-800 operating connecting PPG-APW flights to make it a through service. They reckon that even with the extra APW-PPG sector, they can still make a profit AND undercut Hawaiian by almost $500 on most tickets.
 
COSPN
Posts: 1834
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 6:33 am

RE: Hawaiian To Increase Pago Pago Flights

Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:50 pm

ANy Chance of LAX-PPG making a comeback ???
 
HALFA
Topic Author
Posts: 1068
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:24 am

RE: Hawaiian To Increase Pago Pago Flights

Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:07 pm

Quoting Koruman (Reply 1):
Pago Pago is the saddest, seediest place I've ever visited

While PPG may not be the garden spot of the earth, there are certainly other places more sad and seedy than PPG. You need to get out more often.

Quoting Koruman (Reply 1):
It's a victim of the US cabotage rules, which imagine that American Samoa to Hawaii is a domestic flight, and so open only to US carriers.

Last time I checked, PPG IS a U.S. Territory. I don't see Australia allowing AA or UA to set up shop in SYD and allowing them to start service within Australia.

Quoting Koruman (Reply 1):
Which is sad, because Polynesian Blue would just clean up if they could fly that route and charge sensible fares, rather than the outrageous profiteering of Hawaiian

Any airline around the world that holds a monopoly on a particular route will likely generate profits. It's called supply and demand. If other carriers wanted in on this market, they are certainly welcome to fly it. Aloha recently tried and failed.

Quoting COSPN (Reply 2):
ANy Chance of LAX-PPG making a comeback ???

I don't think this will happen anytime soon, although I would personally like to fly the route again. If expansion at HA is going to happen, look for East Coast and Asian cities to be added.
Hawaiian Airlines Since 1929...........
 
socal
Posts: 464
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 9:20 pm

RE: Hawaiian To Increase Pago Pago Flights

Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:59 pm

ANy Chance of LAX-PPG making a comeback ???

Quoting COSPN (Reply 2):

Good question....would be cool to see route
I Love HNL.............
 
ha763
Posts: 3201
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 5:36 pm

RE: Hawaiian To Increase Pago Pago Flights

Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:05 pm

HA does this every year, same day too, but this is the first time I can remember that the extra flight is during the day. Normally, HA would just schedule the extra flight same as the other regular PPG flights.

Quoting HALFA (Reply 3):
Aloha recently tried and failed.

And AQ offered much lower fares than HA and still couldn't attract enough business. In fact, AQ dropped the route after less than a year of service and well before they filed for bankruptcy.
 
N593HA
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:45 pm

RE: Hawaiian To Increase Pago Pago Flights

Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:50 pm

Quoting HALFA (Reply 3):
Last time I checked, PPG IS a U.S. Territory. I don't see Australia allowing AA or UA to set up shop in SYD and allowing them to start service within Australia.

Doesn't UA have daily SYD-MEL-SYD flights?
Next trip: KL+NW to HNL
 
N1120A
Posts: 26580
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Hawaiian To Increase Pago Pago Flights

Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:58 pm

Quoting Koruman (Reply 1):
It's a victim of the US cabotage rules, which imagine that American Samoa to Hawaii is a domestic flight

Um, that is because it is a domestic flight.

Quoting N593HA (Reply 6):
Doesn't UA have daily SYD-MEL-SYD flights?

They don't carry domestic passengers. The only passengers they can carry are those continuing on from LAX or connecting from SFO.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
koruman
Posts: 2179
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:08 pm

RE: Hawaiian To Increase Pago Pago Flights

Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:33 pm

It is NOT a domestic flight, it is a flight between a state of the USA and an unincorporated territory of the USA.

Niue and the Cook Islands have similar status vis a vis New Zealand, but Polynesian has been allowed to carry passengers between there and NZ.

The victims are the poor American Samoans, who have to fly on US carriers because the Samoan national airline is "foreign". Just like the poor Micronesians, they are trapped because almost all US airlines are such basket-cases that they have no hope of starting new long flights like this.
 
HAL
Posts: 1773
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:38 am

RE: Hawaiian To Increase Pago Pago Flights

Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:23 pm

Hey HALFA,

Any word on the crewing of these flights? With 3x per week, are they going to keep doing it as a turn, or are they (we) going to lay over in Pago?

I say 'we' because I was recalled, and will be in class in May. It's good to be back! Big grin

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
HALFA
Topic Author
Posts: 1068
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:24 am

RE: Hawaiian To Increase Pago Pago Flights

Mon May 01, 2006 6:48 am

Quoting HAL (Reply 9):
Any word on the crewing of these flights?

I'm sure they will be turns, but it will only use up one calendar day which is good.

Great to hear you were recalled, welcome back!! Will you be on the 767 or 717? When will you be back on the line?

Aloha,
HALFA
Hawaiian Airlines Since 1929...........
 
ATLgaUSA
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:58 am

RE: Hawaiian To Increase Pago Pago Flights

Mon May 01, 2006 7:31 am

Quoting Koruman (Reply 8):
It is NOT a domestic flight, it is a flight between a state of the USA and an unincorporated territory of the USA.

A domestic flight, by nature, originates and terminates in the same country. American Somoa is a US territory. Whether or not the territory is incorporated has no bearing on whether flight is domestic or not. So long as it is a territory of the United States, the United States will, with legitimate authority, govern the regulations dictating who can fly what and to where from American Somoa.
 
vxg
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 12:31 pm

RE: Hawaiian To Increase Pago Pago Flights

Mon May 01, 2006 9:31 am

HAL recalled? Great - congratulations. Are you going to be based in SEA (not sure if its still a domicile) or some other base?

You know when I read your story about being furloughed, flying in AK for a while and then going to another airline - I wondered if you would give up your situation at the new airline (esp. given the merger) if HA were to recall you. I guess you're taking that option - it would be interesting to hear the pros and cons of taking it vs. staying where you were.

Looking forward to some HAL trip reports on HA now - but I presume they will be boring long haul ones?

- VxG.
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:55 am

RE: Hawaiian To Increase Pago Pago Flights

Mon May 01, 2006 7:27 pm

Quoting ATLgaUSA (Reply 11):
So long as it is a territory of the United States, the United States will, with legitimate authority, govern the regulations dictating who can fly what and to where from American Somoa.

Nobody denied that. It is just that the US hurts its own people by acting that way. What might be apporopriate for ORD-SFO might not be useful for Pago Pago.
The people of Am Samoa would be far better of if they would not fall undder the domestic US aviation rules. It's simple as that.
 
koruman
Posts: 2179
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:08 pm

RE: Hawaiian To Increase Pago Pago Flights

Mon May 01, 2006 9:16 pm

Absolutely.

At least the Americans could recognise that the American Samoans are Samoan as well as American and allow Polynesian Blue an exemption to fly to Hawaii from Pago Pago.

But instead, just like the Micronesians, the American Samoans are forced to live under protectionist aviation rules which, in their special case, actually prevent competition and realistic prices.
 
ATLgaUSA
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:58 am

RE: Hawaiian To Increase Pago Pago Flights

Tue May 02, 2006 1:54 am

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 13):
Nobody denied that

Yes, they did:

Quoting Koruman (Reply 8):
It is NOT a domestic flight, it is a flight between a state of the USA and an unincorporated territory of the USA.

I was simply pointing out that was wrong.
 
copaair737
Posts: 3571
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:00 am

RE: Hawaiian To Increase Pago Pago Flights

Tue May 02, 2006 4:03 am

Quoting Koruman (Reply 8):
It is NOT a domestic flight, it is a flight between a state of the USA and an unincorporated territory of the USA.

It still has to follow the rules of cabotage though. Philippines Air flies SFO-GUM-MNL, but it can't carry local traffic between SFO and GUM. Yeah, it would be nice, because I would love to be able to fly SFO-GUM n/s, but it still has to follow cabotage rights.

Would any mainland carriers ever consider West Coast-Pago Pago? I would think the only place it would work at would be out of LAX, but maybe a SFO flight. Just speculation on my part.

-Copa
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
PDXFlyBoy
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:40 am

RE: Hawaiian To Increase Pago Pago Flights

Tue May 02, 2006 11:46 am

Quoting Vxg (Reply 12):
HAL recalled? Great - congratulations. Are you going to be based in SEA (not sure if its still a domicile) or some other base?

You know when I read your story about being furloughed, flying in AK for a while and then going to another airline - I wondered if you would give up your situation at the new airline (esp. given the merger) if HA were to recall you. I guess you're taking that option - it would be interesting to hear the pros and cons of taking it vs. staying where you were.

Looking forward to some HAL trip reports on HA now - but I presume they will be boring long haul ones?

- VxG.

Hey VxG....this is a Flight Attendant (HALFA) not the pilot you're thinking of as "HAL".

BTW HALFA...when was your senority date at HA? Is the remainder of furloughs being recalled too? Congratulations!

Mahalo!
 
HAL
Posts: 1773
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:38 am

RE: Hawaiian To Increase Pago Pago Flights

Tue May 02, 2006 3:27 pm

Quoting PDXFlyBoy (Reply 17):
Hey VxG....this is a Flight Attendant (HALFA) not the pilot you're thinking of as "HAL".

Actually it is me they were talking about. I was offered recall, and accepted.

Quoting HALFA (Reply 10):
Will you be on the 767 or 717? When will you be back on the line?

I flew to HNL today to start ground school. I will be on the 767, and should be done with IOE and on the line by early June.

Quoting Vxg (Reply 12):
Are you going to be based in SEA (not sure if its still a domicile) or some other base?

I just barely missed getting SEA, so I'll be based in HNL until I can bid back home to Seattle.

Quoting Vxg (Reply 12):
You know when I read your story about being furloughed, flying in AK for a while and then going to another airline - I wondered if you would give up your situation at the new airline (esp. given the merger) if HA were to recall you. I guess you're taking that option - it would be interesting to hear the pros and cons of taking it vs. staying where you were.

Looking forward to some HAL trip reports on HA now - but I presume they will be boring long haul ones?

Thanks for your comments! Yes, it's been an interesting three years. Before I can comment on the move back to HA I think I need to get some distance from they whole furlough/new-job time frame. Once I'm back on line and get a regular schedule for a few months I should be able to comment more on it all. I will do some HA trip reports once I get settled back in too, hopefully to places like Sydney or Anchorage.

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:55 am

RE: Hawaiian To Increase Pago Pago Flights

Tue May 02, 2006 10:42 pm

As far as i know there are a lot of 'Essential Air Service' Routes in the USA for small airports, which are subsidizen/supported in a certain way to make them viable.

Couldn't Pago Pago apply for EAS support?

I I remember correctly, there are other airports who applied for subsidizing a second carrier or even a low-cost carrier to lower price. I seems to that the Pago Pago exemple is ideal for EAS, although it might be much more costly than from any midwest village to ORD oder ATL.
 
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hawaiian717
Posts: 3489
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

RE: Hawaiian To Increase Pago Pago Flights

Wed May 03, 2006 10:32 am

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 19):
As far as i know there are a lot of 'Essential Air Service' Routes in the USA for small airports, which are subsidizen/supported in a certain way to make them viable.

The way I understand it, EAS is for airports that otherwise wouldn't have any service because their isn't enough demand. HA's boosting the service to 3x/week for the summer indicates that it is a route that is commerically viable, and thus there is no need for EAS at PPG.

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