Harmony Airways To Serve JFK & OAK

wedgetail737 · Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:20 am

The JFK part didn't surprise me as much as the OAK part:

Harmony Airways adds service to New York, San Francisco
Vancouver, BC, April 27th, 2006: Vancouver-based Harmony Airways is introducing new non-stop routes to New York City and San Francisco bay Area from Vancouver this summer.

Harmony's service to John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York City will start on June 29 and operate seven days a week.

Harmony's service to the San Francisco Bay Area will fly into Oakland International Airport. The service will start on June 22 and operate twice a week on Thursdays and Sundays.

"San Francisco is a short two hour flight from Vancouver and a perfect weekend get-away," said Gary Collins, President and CEO. "The culture and the nearby Napa Valley wine county make the Bay Area an attractive and convenient summer leisure destination for British Columbians."

"Whether you're flying for business or pleasure, it's hard to match the excitement of New York. It has world-class shopping, Broadway productions, great restaurants and sights, an energy all its own. Our harmonyone business class and signature in-flight customer service will be perfectly paired with this destination and I look forward to introducing it to travelers new to us and repeat Harmony Customers alike."

Harmony Airways is an industry leader in full-service, competitive air travel. Aimed at exceeding customer expectations, Harmony provides full meal service, wine, comfortable leg room and free in-flight movies aboard its 171-seat Boeing 757 aircraft.

Harmony Airways' fleet of Boeing 757-200s flies daily between Vancouver and Toronto. Additional routes from Vancouver include Las Vegas, Honolulu, Maui, and Palm Springs. Hotels, car rentals, package vacations and more are offered through Harmony Vacations.

For reservations or more information, please visit: www.harmonyairways.com.

copaair737 · Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:26 am

Great news for OAK. Its always great to see new Int'l service at Bay Area Airports, and this is especially nice for OAK. It complements their numerous Mexican services. 2 new carriers on the Bay Area-Vancouver route this year, QF and now Harmony. I'd take QF next time I go up there, but it would be cool to try out Harmony sometime. Isn't Harmony the old HMY Airways? What happened to their LAX services?

-Copa

boeingfanyyz · Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:34 am

You know what, I think this airline has quite a bit of potential. From what I hear, they offer a great product and from what I've seen on their site, their J class looks amazing! Great food selection as well.

The only thing is that I have not seen much advertising from them, so I know a lot of folks on this side of Canada know very little about this airline.

Cheers,
Boeingfanyyz airplane

LAXintl · Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:42 pm

I believe this might be their second attempt at the Bay Area. Shortly after launching the carrier did announce service to SFO Intl, however I dont believe the service actually ever started.

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 1):
What happened to their LAX services?

They dropped LAX early 2005. They tried all types of various schedules from 2-3 times weekly to daily service. While loads were not too bad, I've heard yields were pretty atrocious with lots of package tour passengers such as familes headed to Disneyland.
LAX-YVR is a hard market going up against the multiple daily flights being offered by Air Canada, Alaska and then United. Also the B757 was likely an overkill on the route.
They instead managed to operate a low frequency service to Palm Springs for the snowbird traffic.

I'd be interested to see this airlines balance sheet. It really seems to be the personal toy of David Ho the way the carrier enters and exits markets.

MAH4546 · Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:47 am

There has been talk we might see them doing MIA-YVR seasonally during the winter for cruiseships, with weekend service. I believe this is also OAK's only link to Canada, a little surprised it isn't daily, though.

FA4B6 · Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:52 am

Well this ends my hope of JetBlue ever starting JFK-YVR. I would have LOVED to have seen that on our route map!

LAXintl · Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:09 am

Quoting FA4B6 (Reply 5):
Well this ends my hope of JetBlue ever starting JFK-YVR. I would have LOVED to have seen that on our route map!

Don't worry, give it some time. Knowing Harmony, they will likely drop the route 6-12months after starting it anyways.

wedgetail737 · Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:39 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
There has been talk we might see them doing MIA-YVR seasonally during the winter for cruiseships, with weekend service. I believe this is also OAK's only link to Canada, a little surprised it isn't daily, though.

I don't know if OAK has enough traffic to handle a daily 757 to YVR.

dforce1 · Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:46 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3):
LAX-YVR is a hard market going up against the multiple daily flights being offered by Air Canada, Alaska and then United.

But I wonder if they could find success on a once weekly trip from maybe YYJ or YLW instead? Is there presently much competition on YYC-LAX?

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 7):
I don't know if OAK has enough traffic to handle a daily 757 to YVR.

It's not daily service. I'm sure they could fill a 757 a couple of times a week in the summer.

I hope they'll start YYJ-LAS seasonally once a week in the near future.

[Edited 2006-04-28 19:48:46]

SafetyDude · Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:51 am

On a side note, does anyone know anything about Harmony's fleet expansion? Some Harmony flights in July are showing up as being operated by CRJs.

-Will

LAXintl · Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:57 am

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 7):
I don't know if OAK has enough traffic to handle a daily 757 to YVR.

While I am sure the Bay Area has plenty of overall Vancouver traffic demand, I'd agree with your assessment.

As I mentioned in a previous post Harmony tried all types of scheduling variations in the larger Los Angeles market for near two years and could not manage to hang on to the route.
While the carrier ran some minor newspaper advertising and offered good fares, I would venture to say that 90+% of the passengers were Canadian of which many were on package holidays.

I'd suspect Harmony will primarily again sell primarily to Canadians as it would be very difficult to get its name out in the Bay Area while competing against the multiple daily AC, AS, and UA flights between the cities. At the end I suppose it will again come down to how many plane loads of lower yielding package holiday tourist the airline can generate and if this will cover the flights operating cost.

dforce1 · Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:10 am

Quoting SafetyDude (Reply 9):
On a side note, does anyone know anything about Harmony's fleet expansion? Some Harmony flights in July are showing up as being operated by CRJs.

Really? Could you give examples? Perhaps they're looking at code-sharing. But I don't know who else operates CRJ's other than AC Jazz. I doubt they would get QX to operate flights for them. All I have ever heard about Harmony expansion is going to a larger long range aircraft for Asia flights, but I never heard anything about regionals. What route is the CRJ on?

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 10):
it would be very difficult to get its name out in the Bay Area while competing against the multiple daily AC, AS, and UA

Does anyone know how Harmony One compares to any of the business classes of the above noted carriers? I'm confident Harmony economy is far superior. But what Harmony lacks is a FF program! They should do like WJ and bring in the AirMiles program although I'd love to see them on Alaska Mileage plan.

Jayce · Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:17 am

From what I've heard, HQ is looking at a smaller an a larger aircraft to compliment the 757 fleet. Either the 737NG or A319 for the smaller end or the 777 or the A330 for the larger equipment.

From what I've heard they are amazing. Kind of remind me of Wardair.

markabcan · Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:56 am

ooooops, see next!...............................................................

[Edited 2006-04-28 22:57:54]

markabcan · Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:56 am

Quoting DFORCE1 (Reply 11):
Really? Could you give examples? Perhaps they're looking at code-sharing. But I don't know who else operates CRJ's other than AC Jazz. I doubt they would get QX to operate flights for them. All I have ever heard about Harmony expansion is going to a larger long range aircraft for Asia flights, but I never heard anything about regionals. What route is the CRJ on?

If you go on the website and try to book a YYC-YVR segment it will come up being operated by either a CRJ or F100. No one can explain why and there has been no formal announcement either that would explain this. They must be planning something but I have no idea what. If they think they can compete on YYC-YVR with a CRJ they are in a dream world, especially since they advertised the service with the 757. As far as their new service to Oakland and New York I am sceptical about its potential. Just too many big names to compete against! I guess they had to do something though with the 757s that apparently are not coming to Calgary!

Humberside · Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:39 am

Arent Harmony focused on Asia service? Will JFK be timed to connect at YVR with Asian flights on other carriers. Could be a good oppurtunity for Harmony to exploit, and for Asian carriers who dont wish to serve NYC with their own planes

mikephotos · Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:50 am

Quoting DFORCE1 (Reply 11):
Really? Could you give examples? Perhaps they're looking at code-sharing. But I don't know who else operates CRJ's other than AC Jazz. I doubt they would get QX to operate flights for them. All I have ever heard about Harmony expansion is going to a larger long range aircraft for Asia flights, but I never heard anything about regionals. What route is the CRJ on?

A random check of 20JUN06 on a YVRYYC flight:

V*HQ262/20JUN«
20JUN DPTR ARVL MEALS EQP ELPD ACCUM MILES SM
YVR YYC 1200N 220P S CRJ 1.20 1.20 427 N
DEP-MAIN TERMINAL

Doesn't list any codeshares and/or DBAs. However, Air Canada does have a flight (A320) operating the exact same departure/arrival times so not sure if that has anything to do with it (codeshare but just missing the codeshare info at this time?)

Mike

wedgetail737 · Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:31 pm

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 1):
It complements their numerous Mexican services.

Don't forget that Azores Express (Sata International) will begin Monday flights between Terceira and OAK with A-310's. I think it starts in mid-June through September sometime.

FlyDeltaJets · Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:39 pm

Is that going to be on the ever gowing list of Terminal 4 airlines. I think soon they are going to need a 4th sign.

yvrtoyyz · Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:49 pm

Quoting DFORCE1 (Reply 11):
Does anyone know how Harmony One compares to any of the business classes of the above noted carriers? I'm confident Harmony economy is far superior.

I was going to ask the same question as I am considering trying their HarmonyOne product in August, but would like some indication as to what to expect other than the information that is provided on their website.

Quoting DFORCE1 (Reply 11):
But what Harmony lacks is a FF program! They should do like WJ and bring in the AirMiles program

I'm pretty confident you can accumulate AirMiles reward miles with Harmony; however, I am unsure as to whether you can redeem your miles towards free-flights with Harmony. See http://www.harmonyairways.com/flight_rewards/partners.shtml

A.netter Astral works/worked for Harmony, although I haven't seen a post from him within the last 6 weeks.

-YVRtoYYZ

[Edited 2006-04-29 05:50:47]

astral · Thu May 04, 2006 4:47 am

I was away on business in China, and was unable to answer many comments on Harmony's latest moves.
The JFK service would not be able to direct interline as the outbound flight departs in the morning, much earler than all Asia arrivals. Similarly the same for inbound. However, there still are the RON interline traffic that HQ can pickup.
The YYC service will be under ACMI operations as the B757s are now directed to longer range JFK and OAK routes. A CRJ will be used for the YYC segment. HQ will gage the YYC market before committing to larger equipment in the future date. The YYC operations will be mainly interline purposes only as HQ is going to code share with MU, then CI. Further more regular IATA interline agreements (Westjet do not/cannot) are inplace and are working well with JL, CX, and a few others. At least two additional carriers are expected to consider code share YYC later in 2006.
As many of you already know that Westjet has to push back its so called 'interline' link later because of technical (i.e. IT) problems. I truly do not believe Westjet can do it. To have their reservation/settlement system to link with major GDS such as Sabre, and Wordspan is just a dream. No GDS in this world will allow their source code to be released so that a competiting system can gain its market share. To GDS like Sabre, it would be much more advantage for Westjet to dump their peanut size system and switch to Sabre. Why give away your source link, and not go after the airline to switch over. It just dosen't make business sense. Further more Westjet's Open Sky system and the major GDSs are using totally different computer language and format, the technical problems are huge if not impossible to overcome. In the end, it may be better money for Westjet just switch to Sabre or Apollo or whatever, and forget about the millions they have spend so far.

mikephotos · Thu May 04, 2006 5:02 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 18):
Is that going to be on the ever gowing list of Terminal 4 airlines. I think soon they are going to need a 4th sign

Yes, looks like they will be using T4.

Michael

fly2yyz · Thu May 11, 2006 3:36 pm

Hey Guys,

Don't know if it was posted on here yet but the Harmony(HQ) YYC-YVR flights are operated by Voyager it seems.... as stated on their website...

*Vancouver-Calgary service operated by Voyageur Airways utilizing a Canada Air Regional Jet (CRJ-100) with 50 economy class seat configuration.

markabcan · Thu May 11, 2006 3:53 pm

Quoting Fly2yyz (Reply 22):
*Vancouver-Calgary service operated by Voyageur Airways utilizing a Canada Air Regional Jet (CRJ-100) with 50 economy class seat configuration.

That's not going to get them very far compared to the competition. They should just cancel the service altogether instead of doing it this way. I have been very impressed with Harmony until now!

[Edited 2006-05-11 08:54:34]

fly2yyz · Fri May 12, 2006 4:36 am

Quoting Markabcan (Reply 23):
That's not going to get them very far compared to the competition. They should just cancel the service altogether instead of doing it this way. I have been very impressed with Harmony until now!

So just because they decided to use CRJs on this route you've lost your good impression of them? What is your reasoning for it? I think its a good start to feed connections to Asia. I mean sure beats using their 75s when they can be using them somewhere else.

dforce1 · Fri May 12, 2006 4:42 am

I don't really understand why they're launching the YVR-YYC service? Is it to feed flights to Asia? They don't even have them started yet. I think they should hold off. As noted, if it's going to be operated by Voyageur Airways, how can passengers be guaranteed the same Harmony service? I truly believe this is a poor move for Harmony. YYC-YVR o/d traffic is already captured by WJ and AC. Harmony is truly a leisure carrier. There's no marketshare for them to grab. And why bother feeding the JFK and LAX flights? AC already operates those flights and at reasonable fares. What's Harmony's competitive advantage?

dforce1 · Fri May 12, 2006 5:17 am

I don't see any CRJ's listed on the fleet page of Voyageur Airways
http://www.voyageurairways.com/aircharterpage.htm

Humberside · Fri May 12, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting DFORCE1 (Reply 25):
I don't really understand why they're launching the YVR-YYC service? Is it to feed flights to Asia? They don't even have them started yet.

The idea is to feed Asian flights of other carriers they codeshare with.

fly2yyz · Fri May 12, 2006 7:12 am

Quoting DFORCE1 (Reply 25):
Harmony is truly a leisure carrier. There's no marketshare for them to grab. And why bother feeding the JFK and LAX flights? AC already operates those flights and at reasonable fares. What's Harmony's competitive advantage?

Like they do with their YYZ-YVR flights, they are feeding their Asian flights. JFK/LAX could do the same. And that is the same idea with YYC. When I did check-in for HQ in YYZ many many passengers were connecting on to JL and MU flights. Well I'd say one of their strenghts are is that its much more reasonable it seems compared to AC fares and their HarmonyOne class is pretty decent. I'm DH'ing on them next week back to YYZ so I'll try to post a trip report of the flight etc.

dforce1 · Thu May 18, 2006 5:22 am

Quoting Fly2YYZ (Reply 28):
Like they do with their YYZ-YVR flights, they are feeding their Asian flights.

Quoting Humberside (Reply 27):
The idea is to feed Asian flights of other carriers they codeshare with.

But what Asian flights?! They haven't even announced any code share partnerships much less any Asian flights of their own. If anything, this YYC-YVR service is premature. Perhaps they have interline agreements with other carriers as a connection carrier, but HQ isn't selling any tickets on other airlines.

Quoting Fly2YYZ (Reply 28):
I'm DH'ing on them next week back to YYZ so I'll try to post a trip report of the flight etc.

Please do - let us know when it is up. And take pics!

stirling · Thu May 18, 2006 7:38 am

Quoting Boeingfanyyz (Reply 2):
The only thing is that I have not seen much advertising from them

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 7):
I don't know if OAK has enough traffic to handle a daily 757 to YVR.

Aggregate numbers I believe there is...the numbers are dispersed amongst a few carriers.

Now if these guys at Harmony thought outside the box....they would target the Hindi community in Northern California. While it is very spread out, it would not be hard to reach, in that word travels fast.
All they would have to do is target 2 or 3 outlets and let the rest fall into place. Properly marketed, based on what I've seen, the demand is most certainly there for a daily 757 between the two cities.
But Harmony should be advised, the Hindi community is very price-sensitive, just a few dollars in the wrong direction ---- and your prospective passenger is now flying Horizon into Bellingham.

SkydrolBoy · Thu May 18, 2006 3:25 pm

Quoting DFORCE1 (Reply 29):
But what Asian flights?! They haven't even announced any code share partnerships much less any Asian flights of their own. If anything, this YYC-YVR service is premature. Perhaps they have interline agreements with other carriers as a connection carrier, but HQ isn't selling any tickets on other airlines.

Hope this answers your question

Harmony Airways introduces Calgary - Asia Pacific link

Vancouver, BC, February 8, 2006: Vancouver-based Harmony Airways is pleased to announce it is adding a new route between Vancouver and Calgary starting June 15th.

Harmony will operate three flights each day on a schedule timed to link Calgarians with Asia Pacific connecting through Vancouver.

Partner carriers Japan Airlines and China Eastern will connect travelers with flights from Vancouver to Asia. The new Calgary - Vancouver connection compliments the existing Toronto - Vancouver link already in place.

c3000flyboy · Fri May 19, 2006 1:58 am

Answers Re: Harmony / Voyageur YYC Service

There were recent HQ f/a interviews and during the process candidates were asked if they would be interested in working the regional service - f/d are all Voyageur crew. Those candidates that prefered this as well as those that could not be fit into the "mainline" class were then interviewed by the Voyageur f/a mgr. The successful candidates will now do CRJ training with Voyageur and effectively be Voyageur f/a's. As to service, all new f/a's will be made to complete HQ service training.

Hope this helps!

Harmony Airways To Serve JFK & OAK

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