http://www.flydenver.com/biz/news/wingtips/2006_qtr2.html#lufthansa

It is a little old, but I don't think anyone has seen this yet.

Interesting. I don't see why they'd want to go to an A380 instead of adding frequency. With six non-intersecting runways it's not like DEN is slot controlled or has a capacity issue. The LH 744 is currently the only 744 that DEN sees. (Yes DEN sometimes sees UA 744s on domestic hub runs, but not right now.)

Quoting BayAreaPilot (Reply 1): The LH 744 is currently the only 744 that DEN sees. (Yes DEN sometimes sees UA 744s on domestic hub runs, but not right now.)

Correct, but UAL does operate a 744 during the summer months. I remember the good ol' days of 744's and 742's between DEN-ORD.

Congrads to DEN..... IND will only see the 380F and mabe a few diversions..

The other thing I found interesting was in the article about United and the overwing passenger bridges they are installing. I was under the impression that these were for the Ted A320s, didn't know (as the article states) that they would be used for the 757 as well.

Thoughts?

When is United going to offer non stop international service from Denver to anywhere in Europe that's what I'd like to know.

Quoting United737522 (Thread starter): http://www.flydenver.com/biz/news/wingtips/2006_qtr2.html#lufthansa It is a little old, but I don't think anyone has seen this yet.

IMHO, it will rain bacon from the sky before LH flies a A380 here in DEN. LH's main thrust in Denver has been to capitalize on the UA hub here, and capture a percentage of the Europe bound traffic (with BA capturing the rest). LH has talked in the past about hitting thresholds here and adding a second flight to another city rather then increasing this to a A380.

Since LH shares the only Europe runs with BA, you can assume that a large percentage of that market is not O&D into germany, but Europe wide, which means that another city (assuming it has good connections) would be able to sustain high numbers as well.

Quoting Africawings (Reply 5): When is United going to offer non stop international service from Denver to anywhere in Europe that's what I'd like to know.

UA deliberatly decided a few years ago to channel all of the midwest traffic to either ORD for Europe or LAX/SFO for international. They deliberatly wanted to force DEN passengers to connect via another hub to go international.

Looking as how well BA and LH are doing might convience them otherwise, but until Open Skies is done with the EU, I don't think you will see any DEN to LHR flights simply because if UA starts flying to London, both they and BA have to switch to LGW under Bermuda II.

F9 on the other hand is making a merry little killing in the Mexican routes, and is about to start some canadian flights as well. If thoose look good, expect F9 to find ways to travel to Latin America and to Europe, esp given the competition from WN.

No chance for A380F in DEN?? UPS or FEDEX?

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 6): if UA starts flying to London, both they and BA have to switch to LGW under Bermuda II.

Hi AirFrnt.... can you explain Bermuda II and/or direct me to a website explaining some of these agreements and rulings ?

And...

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 6): expect F9 to find ways to travel to Latin America and to Europe, esp given the competition from WN.

Do you mean to say F9 would seek rights to fly across the atlantic ??
I understand the domestic WN competition but to Europe ??

Cheers,

Joe

Quoting KLMCedric (Reply 7): No chance for A380F in DEN?? UPS or FEDEX?

I don't think so. Last time I ws in DEN I drove by the cargo area. UPS was using a A300, Fedex was using 727 and a DC-10, and DHL was using a DC-8. I would guess that the fact that there are few 747s mean that DEN simply doesn't have the volume to utilize a A380.

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 8): Hi AirFrnt.... can you explain Bermuda II and/or direct me to a website explaining some of these agreements and rulings ?

Not really, but the gist of it comes down to LHR to US city routings are limited to a few cities. In certain cases, if only one carrier flies from a US city to London they can fly into LHR instead of LGW even though they may not be a offical city on the list.

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 8): Do you mean to say F9 would seek rights to fly across the atlantic ?? I understand the domestic WN competition but to Europe ??

I think so. I think that F9 has to diversify their traffic considerably with Southwest now putting in up to 60 flights out of DEN.

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 6): LH has talked in the past about hitting thresholds here and adding a second flight to another city rather then increasing this to a A380. Since LH shares the only Europe runs with BA, you can assume that a large percentage of that market is not O&D into germany, but Europe wide, which means that another city (assuming it has good connections) would be able to sustain high numbers as well.

This would be MUC, LH´s 2nd largest hub. But maybe UA could fly the route with a 763ER at less risk than LH with an A343, at least in the first phase.


But if LH wants to increase capacity from FRA, then the A380 makes sense.

Quoting BayAreaPilot (Reply 1): I don't see why they'd want to go to an A380 instead of adding frequency.

Why on earth would they need more frequencies on that route ? IMO, most talk about additional frequencies on longhaul routes is simply BS.

And I´m quite sure that 2 A343s per day cost far more than the A380 once a day.

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 8): can you explain Bermuda II and/or direct me to a website explaining some of these agreements and rulings ?

From my understainting Denver and Phoenix where able to change to LHR under Berumda II, Though, I'd too like to the specifics.

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 8): Do you mean to say F9 would seek rights to fly across the atlantic ?? I understand the domestic WN competition but to Europe ??

Of course this is mere speculation (in regards to Europe) Central America is not out of the realm of possibility for Frontier.
What he is saying is international ops give F9 an advantage over WN out of Denver.

Is DIA even A380 ready???? I don't think it is....

[Edited 2006-04-28 16:46:11]

Quoting KLMCedric (Reply 7): No chance for A380F in DEN?? UPS or FEDEX?

UPS has been flying a 747 fairly regularly this year into DEN. However, while passenger traffic has shot up at Denver, cargo traffic has taken a tumble. DEN has not been able to draw the cargo traffic it had hoped for. Maybe this will change in the future, but I doubt we will see any A380 freighters in DEN for awhile.

Quoting Jmy007 (Reply 11): From my understainting Denver and Phoenix where able to change to LHR under Berumda II, Though, I'd too like to the specifics.

Well, from the last I knew about Bermuda 2 (unless it has been modified in the past year), there are a list of airports that are approved for service by the US and UK carriers to/from Heathrow. These airports are (please let me know if I forget any): SEA, SFO, LAX, ORD, DTW, BOS, JFK, EWR, PHL, IAD, and MIA. I think that is all of them. Anyway, any carrier with rights to fly to LHR can fly to/from LHR from these airports. BA flies to all of them from LHR, although three of these airports - DTW, EWR, and PHL also see service to LGW as NW, US, and CO don't have rights to fly into LHR.

In addition, there is a stipulation that BA (and I think VS...does it extend to UA or AA too?) can operate a flight to/from LHR to/from an airport that is not on this list if there are no other airlines operating nonstop and something about them being able to prove that there is a certain amount of demand (someone else will have to clear up that clause for me). Thus, BA is able to operate flights to/from DEN and PHX because there is no nonstop competition on the route. Because DEN is not an approved airport, if UA were to begin service from DEN to London, they would need to fly to LGW under the current rules. Because there would be competition, BA would also be forced to move the operations to LGW. The same goes for PHX. If US were to ever launch a nonstop PHX to LGW service, then BA would have to move their flight back to LGW where it originally was (I think DEN started at LGW too, no?). This is also why BA's DFW, ATL, and IAH nonstops must fly to LGW. They have competition with AA, DL, and CO on these respective routes.

However, there are some ways around this rule. With BA's consolidation at LHR (including many routes to Middle Eastern and African oil producing markets), connections to IAH (the big US energy center) were pretty poor through LGW (bus or train from LGW to LHR), so they began a third daily flight to ORD that continues on to IAH. ORD is the first port of entry into the US, so it meets the Bermuda 2 requirements.

However, all of this will be for nothing if the US and EU ever pass open skies. So, we will have to see. I hope that this helps a little. If anyone can clarify on any parts of this, please do so. If you do a search, there are past threads on Bermuda 2 as well.

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 9): I don't think so. Last time I ws in DEN I drove by the cargo area. UPS was using a A300, Fedex was using 727 and a DC-10, and DHL was using a DC-8.

Fedex has a major sort facility there. They fly M11s, M10s, D10s, AB6s, and all their other aircraft all day and all night.

N

Quoting Jmy007 (Reply 11): Is DIA even A380 ready???? I don't think it is....

I believe that the recently-completed 6th runway, 16,000x200 ft. 16R/34L, is A380-ready. However, I couldn't say if any of the gate facilities are ready (yet).

Quoting CBERFlyer (Reply 15): I believe that the recently-completed 6th runway, 16,000x200 ft. 16R/34L, is A380-ready. However, I couldn't say if any of the gate facilities are ready (yet).

That's what I was thinking, about the terminals. I don't think they are. (and I would assume concourse A would be where they would park)

Quoting Jmy007 (Reply 11): Of course this is mere speculation (in regards to Europe) Central America is not out of the realm of possibility for Frontier.

Europe may be speculation (and GOOD speculation   ), but Central America has been mentioned, in public, by Frontier's CEO.

He has also talked about the Caribbean, but said (a while ago) that Hawaii is "not high" on their list.

mariner

Quoting KLMCedric (Reply 7): No chance for A380F in DEN?? UPS or FEDEX?

Quoting DIA77 (Reply 12): but I doubt we will see any A380 freighters in DEN for awhile.

Holiday gift flights will be your best bet.

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 14): [FX flies]M11s, M10s, D10s, AB6s, and all their other aircraft all day and all night.

Not really, maybe 10 flights tops. And no real MD11 consistencies. Most of your flights are to MEM, IND, and OAK as well. Again, Holiday A380s

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 8): Do you mean to say F9 would seek rights to fly across the atlantic ??

Oh GAWD! Talk about a severe change in business practice! New Hub, I dont think DEN would make an awesome launching point for a Euro "hub"....not enough O/D and connecting PAX from the east will wonder why theyd want to backtrack... Not to mention F9 would need a whole new fleet type, different pay scales, etc etc etc.... But hey, F9 knows better than us pudknockers...

Quoting Jmy007 (Reply 11): From my understainting Denver and Phoenix where able to change to LHR under Berumda II, Though, I'd too like to the specifics.

Quoting Iowa744fan (Reply 13): Thus, BA is able to operate flights to/from DEN and PHX because there is no nonstop competition on the route.

To add on that, BII flights to DEN and PHX from LHR can only be on a British carrier and flights from DEN/PHX to LHR may only happen if no one else enters the market for 2 yrs, IIRC.

LH and the A380 is a nice idea, but I personally think that we wont see it for 5-6 more yrs. Bigger fish need to be fried.

After reading that link,

Does anybody know where the Thomsonfly planes where coming from in the UK?

And what aircraft where they using, and what podium where they checking in at?

Quoting A342 (Reply 10): This would be MUC, LH�s 2nd largest hub. But maybe UA could fly the route with a 763ER at less risk than LH with an A343, at least in the first phase.

My point is that LH would probably much prefer to restrict the A380 to airports that can actually reliably generate that much traffic internationally. In my mind that pretty much limits it to LAX and ORD. Denver is the fourth busiest airport in the nation, But it is not a "international capital."

Quoting Jmy007 (Reply 11): Is DIA even A380 ready???? I don't think it is....

If someone where to load DEN up with a A380 they would have to add a second elevated bridge to board. However, that would be very simple at DIA because of it's construction and layout. Denver also has ample runway space, even if the A380 where Asia bound.

Quoting CBERFlyer (Reply 15): However, I couldn't say if any of the gate facilities are ready (yet).

Cargo ops don't really need "gates" with jetbridges.

However, I assume that they would be ready for passenger ops pretty quickly. All they'd have to do is to paint up a remote stand for it and run some buses and get some airstairs.

On a side note, do airstairs exist to go up to the 2nd level doors?
Are there even jetbridges that could load directly to the 2nd level?
Was the thing even designed to load from the 2nd level?

Quoting KLMCedric (Reply 7): No chance for A380F in DEN?? UPS or FEDEX?

Expect it from UPS, it's almost a guarantee. During the christmas hauling season, UPS sends at least 2 or 3 daily 747 into DEN.

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 8): can you explain Bermuda II and/or direct me to a website explaining some of these agreements and rulings

Basically Bermuda II is a frigging mess. When you think that both the UK and USA are 2 countries that supposedly support the free market then it's a disgrace.
One thing to add to Iowa744fan's detailed reply is the grandfather rights of other carriers. For example Air India was ablt to fly LHR-USA before Bermuda II and has retained that right. I think Kuwait Airways are similarly affected.