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irobertson
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:35 am

RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 5:57 am

Quoting D950 (Reply 45):
I think it was a B-25

I stand corrected on that one. I still don't stand convinced though. I'm not just going to blindly believe whatever the US administration says like its the gospel truth. Not with the evidence being provided to us.
 
Braniff727
Posts: 656
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2000 2:25 am

RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 6:02 am

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 44):
If two aircraft were enough to bring down both WTC towers all on their own, then the Empire State Building should have been brought down by that B-52 back in the 50s.

It wasn't the two aircraft that brought down the towers. It was the fire from the almost completely full fuel tanks burning at several thousand degrees that melted the structural steel that supported the bulding that brought them down.

But, but, but the towers were designed to withstand the impact of a 707 on approach to JFK...

Yes, on approach, meaning not a lot of fuel. This has been covered over and over and over.

If you are a structural engineer by all means tell me I'm wrong, otherwise I'm going to go with the word of people who know what they are talking about.
Climbing
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 6:03 am

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 51):
I'm not just going to blindly believe whatever the US administration says like its the gospel truth. Not with the evidence being provided to us.

Laughable, utterly totally, uncontrollably laughable . . . .

Did you not watch any television that day?????

Incredible, laughable, utterly . . . simply ridiculous. . . .  sarcastic 

I suppoe if a Democrat had been in the Oval Office, it would be true and blue, eh?

Assinine. . . beyond gawddamn belief.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
iluv747400
Posts: 298
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 6:03 am

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 44):
No other building, especially built at the same time as the WTC in the 70s, that has suffered multiple floor fires has ever fallen as a result of the fires alone.

No other building has had a planeload of jetfuel in it to fuel the fires. Are you an expert on steel and building construction? I'm convinced the many thousands of gallons of burning jetfuel was enough to melt the steel used to frame the Twin Towers. When the very heavy floors above collapsed on the floors below when the beams gave way, the whole building came down.

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 44):
As for "where did the plane go?" Good question.

On September 11th I was living in a dorm that overlooked the Pentagon. Friends of mine witnessed the plane hit the Pentagon as did many other eyewitnesses. Again, you underestimate the impact of such a huge amount of jetfuel exploding on impact. There's not going to be much of a plane left.
 
irobertson
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:35 am

RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 6:07 am

Quoting Drinkstrolley (Reply 50):

Okay I just watched this, that camera has a hell of alot higher frame rate than what we're seeing. You can see when there's a bit of smooth frames, then jerky frames. Watch the fireball. It is created in smoother little spurts and paused, but the actual aircraft strike is literally just single frames that advance at roughly the same rate. That tells me there's a LOT of frames missing before the actual impact. Funny that they would be critical frames revealing whether or not it was an airliner or not.

If there's nothing to hide and AA 77 really did do all this, then why is this STILL the only video released of the attack, and not all the other cameras? There was a release of this exact video already years ago. This "new release" isn't new at all. Show me the highway camera if there's nothing to hide and this actually happened.
 
deltadc9
Posts: 2811
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:00 pm

RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 6:10 am

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 44):
If two aircraft were enough to bring down both WTC towers all on their own, then the Empire State Building should have been brought down by that B-52 back in the 50s. No other building, especially built at the same time as the WTC in the 70s, that has suffered multiple floor fires has ever fallen as a result of the fires alone. I don't know who brought down the WTC towers in the end, but they weren't the hijackers on the aircraft; whoever they were knew what they were doing and killed a lot of people. I can assure you I have as much sympathy for the victims as anyone else; I just don't believe the story that the US government claims to be the cause.

First of all brainiac, it was a B-25 in the 40's coming in for a landing with little fuel, and if you have that so wrong, how can you even believe yourself? Second, the Empire State Building was overbuilt to the point that it may outlast just about any building built since.

No other building.....You have GOT to be kidding me! A building adjacent to the twin towers collapsed because of what? It caught on fire and it was too far out of control to stop it. That was on TV for the whole world to watch, you missed it and we should believe you?

You cannot effectively fight a fire in a building over 8-10 stories high, this is also a fact, and why fire prevention is the top issue when they are designed.
Fire will bring down any building period. Once downward movement starts, it cannot be stopped, there is too much weight involved.

The design of the twin towers proved to be its downfall, this is well documented. The floor joists were trusses that held the outer walls in, with nothing else between the outer walls and the core. The plane blew off the insulation, and softened the trusses until the gave way and the outer walls had no support, and it started to move. You can go to Fresh Kill and see some of these trusses to this day I believe.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
drinkstrolley
Posts: 484
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 6:11 am

Not entirely relevant, but United Flight 93 ATC recording is here:-

http://www.airdisaster.com/download2/ua93.shtml

Makes for an interesting listen.
 
galapagapop
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 6:13 am

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 51):
I stand corrected on that one. I still don't stand convinced though. I'm not just going to blindly believe whatever the US administration says like its the gospel truth. Not with the evidence being provided to us.

Well next time terrorist decide to attack the US (or the actors in your case), We'll have them call you and you can see how real it is for yourself?

How much more do you need to understand what happened? Or is your reality deterred from further advancement because of another issue or event?
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 6:13 am

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 55):
Show me the highway camera if there's nothing to hide and this actually happened.

Well, where do you thik the HIGHWAY cameras might have been focused during rush hour up I-395 on that morning?

Perhaps on the HIGHWAY and not on E-Rinng at the 5 sided funny farm?

Spare me the bullshit.

"Good Morning ladies and gents, here's a shot of the E Ring atthe Pentagon this morning on the off chance some terrorist assholes are going to fly a 757 into the bulding, we'd show you the traffic on I-395 at the Crystal City interchange but we think the plane hitting the building is much more exciting".

WTF . . . .  sarcastic 

When will reality set in with you people?
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
deltadc9
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 6:16 am

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 55):
Okay I just watched this, that camera has a hell of alot higher frame rate than what we're seeing.

Proove it.

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 55):
That tells me there's a LOT of frames missing before the actual impact

Proove it.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
travelin man
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 6:21 am

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 55):
there's nothing to hide and AA 77 really did do all this, then why is this STILL the only video released of the attack, and not all the other cameras? There was a release of this exact video already years ago. This "new release" isn't new at all. Show me the highway camera if there's nothing to hide and this actually happened.

You have people telling you they SAW AA77 hit the Pentagon, and yet the argument is still "frames might be missing blah blah blah." People SAW and HEARD an airplane go into the Pentagon. People SAW and HEARD the plane go down into Pennsylvania. Hence the 911 calls etc etc.

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 44):
As for "where did the plane go?" Good question. Some people think it was shot down somewhere, maybe over the ocean.

If it was SHOT DOWN somewhere, don't you think people would have seen it? And, FYI, there is no OCEAN between DC and LAX (where the plane was headed prior to it being hijacked).

This speculation degrades the victims of that day, and is based on absolutely NO EVIDENCE.

You don't have to trust the US government if you don't want to. But it is not JUST the US government saying what happened, it was the air traffic controllers, the eye witnesses, and the victims themselves that stated what happened. But go ahead, call them all "liars" too. I'm sure they were all in on it.
 
seanp11
Posts: 281
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 6:25 am

I frankly do not expect to see anything that looks like a 757 anyways. What are the chances that a 60fps camera, filming a 1000 foot area is going to capture a 150 foot 757 going at 400 or 500 kts in even one focused frame? There's much stronger evidence in the wreckage of a 757 than could ever be gleaned from a few seconds of film.

As for the lack of the airplane shaped hole, like others said, that area of the pentagon was hardened against attack, so what are the chances that a mostly air and fuel filled aluminum structure is going to slice right through that?

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 44):

If two aircraft were enough to bring down both WTC towers all on their own, then the Empire State Building should have been brought down by that B-52 back in the 50s.

Besides the fact that it was a B-25, that aircraft was one lost in the fog, and I think was running low on fuel. When the WTC was being built, they planned for that scenerio, with the largest passenger a/c at the time-- the 707. They planned for a 250k lb a/c, low on fuel, hitting at slower speeds, not a 300k lb aircraft, full of fuel, and flying at high speeds.

Not to mention the fact that if this were a conspiracy, it would be the largest one in history.
 
UK_Dispatcher
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 6:26 am

Well, I guess I'll be rubbished just for having the 'audacity' to yet be convinced... but I am yet to be convinced. I can not see a B757 or anything that suggests that it is or isn't one, so surely people have a right to express doubt without being flamed and ridiculed for it.

If it was a B757, but no further video/picture evidence showing the aircraft is available or ever released, then it really is an unfortunate situation, as some people will doubt this forever.
 
irobertson
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 6:27 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 59):

Where do you think the I-395 is? Next to the E-ring...?!? The aircraft had to pass OVER the I-395 in order to hit the building. The video would have caught it.

I will not be posting further on this thread. I've made my ideas clear and opened myself up to a lot of abuse for thinking something other than what is fed to everyone in the world. I'm sorry that I have a brain of my own and I like to use it to consider other possibilities. I've learned that there are a lot of people on A.net who just think that no one is right unless they believe what they do, so it's pointless to continue wasting my time on here.

I leave you to yell and holler obscenties at me. In the mean time, I will be waiting to read or watch something convincing about what happened that day and who was behind it.
 
seanp11
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 6:30 am

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 61):

Do you know what the melting point of tempered steel is? well over 2000 degrees. I don't have the figure in my head but jet fuel does not exceed 2000 degrees.

You don't have to melt the steel, just weaken it to the point where the building loses structural integrity. And the floors beams in the WTC were trusses, which are more susceptible to fire than regular floor beams.
 
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FLALEFTY
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 6:30 am

This video quality is on par with the fuzzy, low-frame-rate images from video tapes showing c-store robbers. But after repeating the sequence a few times, a quick, blurry image of the 757 can be seen prior to impact. Furthermore, the airliner appears to impact the ground shortly before hitting the building.
 
deltadc9
Posts: 2811
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:00 pm

RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 6:32 am

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 61):
Do you know what the melting point of tempered steel is? well over 2000 degrees. I don't have the figure in my head but jet fuel does not exceed 2000 degrees. The explosions show that any fuel burning burned within seconds of the impact. Look at the twin towers. Huge fireballs. Guess what that is? Rapid burning of fuel. Those towers burned for an hour and a half with little fuel for that fire than what was on the interior of that building. Steel doesn't burn, that's aluminum. In order to melt enough steel to bring both towers down COMPLETELY to the ground and not just the top parts above the impacts, there would have needed to be a constant source of fuel to make the fire burn hot enough to melt that steel.

You know nothing of structural engineering or physics. I can soften structural steel in a coal fire! The steel did not melt, the area around the bolts got soft, go look at the trusses if you don't believe me. Not knowing the difference between melting and softening and how the building was constructed means you have no clue as to the facts.

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 61):
Go research other burning buildings, especially the steel ones. They burned for hours, sometimes days or longer. They never COMPLETELY collapsed to the ground, straight down, uncannily like a demolition looks like. In fact, they never collapsed at all. And I'm supposed to believe two jetliners brought down those buildings?

Tall buildings cannot fall over like a tree, they just cant. You would know that if you had any experience in engineering. Gravity pulls you down, not over. Do you have any grasp of the weight of the floors above the impact? That was planned, if they hit the towers further up, there may have not been enough weight to start the uncontrollable collapse. Bringing down those towers was thier expressed goal since 1993, do you live in a hole?
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
travelin man
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 6:35 am

All of these people apparently were lying too:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/911_pentagon_eyewitnesses.html
 
deltadc9
Posts: 2811
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 6:39 am

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 66):
The video would have caught it.

Proove it.

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 66):
I will be waiting to read or watch something convincing about what happened that day and who was behind it.

I have a picture of Bush pushing a explosives plunger in front of Tower 2. I admit it, now can we lock this thread?
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
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fbgdavidson
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 6:42 am

Oh dear, I could see this coming a mile off.

This conspiracy BS gets old very fast.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 26):
If anyone has ever seen pictures of the EL AL 747 cargo plane that crashed into an Amsterdam apartment building, you will notice something very similar to the Pentagon crash site.........big hole, no visible sign of impact by wings.

Conspiracy?

No, just the dynamics of what happens when a big gas filled aluminum structure impacts a stronger ground structure.



Quoting Travelin man (Reply 32):
Exactly. In order to assume what happened on September 11 did not happen, you would have to explain: Where the plane(s) went, why passengers called their loved ones to say they had been hijacked, video of the planes hitting the towers, the ATC recordings of the hijackers, and how a government that is fairly inept at so many things could pull off one of the most complicated, massively complicit, conspiracies in the history of the world.

Two most sensible comments in the thread  thumbsup 
"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
 
atmx2000
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 6:46 am

People should compare the dimensions of the "missile" that they claim to see to the height of the pentagon at the impact in the footage and ask themselves how long the so called "missile" is. Then they should ask themselves if there is a missile with such a length capable of flying horizontally next to the ground at high speed.

If you examine the footage, the "missile" has a length somewhere around twice that of the height of the Pentagon at the point of impact. The Pentagon is 77 ft tall. The "missile" would be at least 150ft in length. Where would one get a missile that long capable of flying that close to the ground? Where would one launch such a thing so it could approach the pentagon at that angle of attack?

By the way, the 757-200 is 155 ft long.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
LMP737
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 6:48 am

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 23):
Frankly, until I actually see multiple videos from the traffic cameras and the gas station and the hotel all showing an American 757 crashing into the building, not hitting the ground, chopping the light poles down like trees and not cartwheeling into the ground like George Bush Sr.'s private jet did a few months before 9/11 upon approach to Texas, until they show what happened to the two engines of the 757, the tail, etc, until they show us pictures of the remains of the people onboard being removed from the "crash site" and until they explain why a cruise missile sized hole is the only hole found on the side of the Pentagon hit and not a large airliner sized hole and two holes for the engines, not to mention the huge wingspan... *inhale* I will simply NOT believe what everyone is being expected to believe. There's a difference between conspiracy theorists and critical thinkers. Frankly, the US government hasn't proven to me (or a lot of other folks living outside the USA) beyond a reasonable doubt that what they claim happened actually did happen.

Well then I guess AA is in on the conspiracy as well. Afterall they collected the insurance on it and no one has seen 5BP since then. And one last thing, you mention that there are no pictures of the remains of the people onboard being removed. Do you actually think they would be pulling intact remains out of the wrekage.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
deltadc9
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 6:50 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 73):
By the way, the 757-200 is 155 ft long.

Welcome to my respected users list.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
ANCFlyer
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Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 6:51 am

Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 72):
This conspiracy BS gets old very fast.

It was frackin' old five years ago.

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 66):
Where do you think the I-395 is? Next to the E-ring...?!?

Ha Ha Ha Ignorance at it's finest. . . quick answer is YES!!!

Since the building is 5 sided don't you think E-RING is on ALL five sides . . . .Adjective deleted . . . . . damnit.

here's a map:
http://www.visitingdc.com/virginia/pentagon-map.htm
And AA Flight came in over Virginia 27 and impacted E Ring there . . .

Any more questions?

Were you there??? Gotta ask that? Know anyonethat was there??? Nope and Nope.

I'm sure.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
travelin man
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 6:53 am

This is another site that has some compelling evidence that AA77 did indeed hit the Pentagon (if anyone STILL needs convincing). It includes eye witness accounts, technical diagrams, pictures of parts of the AA wreckage, and other stuff.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/...1_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html
 
deltadc9
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 7:03 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 59):
When will reality set in with you people?

It is easier for people like this to believe that these things simply cannot happen than to believe that no matter what we do, we will be attacked just for being who we are...a country that will never convert to Islam and will always defend Israels right to exist.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
CF188A
Posts: 680
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 7:07 am

This topic is turning into a disaster people. All i AM GOING TO SAY IS THIS....

we all saw, AA 11 and UA175 fly into the World Trade Centers on 9.11.01 ...

One man apparently saw United 93 Crash into a field in Pennsylvania ... while another said it had been trailing some sort of smoke (Believed to have been shot down) ... only possible conspiracy

American 77 on the other hand... loose change 9.11 makes one very solid argument. If indeed the bush administration wanted to make Michael Moore, and all those producers run and hide, and prove them wrong, all he would have to do is:

1) explain why the orders were given to confiscate all pentagon crash site material

2) give warnings to all those who viewed them

3) SHOW THE VIDEOS... what is there to hide? National Pride? For Christ sake over 100 million people saw both centers collapse! What could be so secret about a plane hitting the pentagon? NOBODY can argue this. Its impossible. Whenever I visit my relatives in Washington (going again in two days) , the Pentagon is right there.... its not like its top secret ... that it doesn't exist! Perhaps there is more to all of 911 then the world will ever know. Has anybody been watching this seasons "24" ... perhaps this is a similar scenario ? Don't EVER....... shut out the possible.



All they had to do is show one of three videos, and I guarantee you, GB would have a few more supporters on his hands. But why only 5 frames? All eye witnesses said it was not a commerical jet. THAT IT WAS "NOT!" a commercial jet airliner. I believe I read a report from another witness who was indeed a Private Pilot and he said it was not a 757.

People I am just going off what is possible and what is not. To this day many want answers, and many will not rest until they do indeed find them. What happened that day changed our lives for 3+ years, and to this day in some ways still has a fresh imprint. This is not the topic to argue. This is something all should understand...and RESPECT
Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow~ RIP ... LJFM
 
deltadc9
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 7:11 am

Please lock this thread.....
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
LMP737
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 7:11 am

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 60):
Go research other burning buildings, especially the steel ones. They burned for hours, sometimes days or longer. They never COMPLETELY collapsed to the ground, straight down, uncannily like a demolition looks like. In fact, they never collapsed at all. And I'm supposed to believe two jetliners brought down those buildings?

Like so many conspiracy theorists you leave out important information. Like the fact that both towers were hit by aircraft heavy with fuel and traveling at a high rate of speed. Sounds to me you have done your "research" on the various conspiracy theory web sites. Have you ever asked what the background of some of the people who come up with these theories? Do they have any expertise or are they layman.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
saturn5
Posts: 308
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 7:12 am

People who believe in this "missile" theory are about the same people who think that US never landed a man on the Moon because when N.Armstrong was standing next to the american flag the flag was upright flapping in the wind (or that there was no crater under the Lander, or that you could not see stars, etc...). The same level of ignorance, the same level of IQ I am afraid.

[Edited 2006-05-17 00:16:06]
 
md80fanatic
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 7:14 am

Why lock this thread? I'd like to hear more of what everyone thinks. Too bad the other thread was closed due to a few people's anger.

We need to be adults here.....if you cannot keep your cool you should avoid threads like these, for the sake of everyone who'd like to know more.
 
christeljs
Posts: 528
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:08 pm

RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 7:16 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 79):
Please lock this thread.....

Why? If you dislike it so much, don't click it  Smile
Christel A Photography
 
atmx2000
Posts: 4301
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 7:16 am

Quoting CF188A (Reply 78):

All they had to do is show one of three videos, and I guarantee you, GB would have a few more supporters on his hands. But why only 5 frames? All eye witnesses said it was not a commerical jet. THAT IT WAS "NOT!" a commercial jet airliner. I believe I read a report from another witness who was indeed a Private Pilot and he said it was not a 757.

On the highways around the Pentagon, people stuck in traffic saw the AA aircraft flying low overhead prior to impact.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
md80fanatic
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 7:19 am

Like, for instance, how can a very high speed airliner (especially one with a very large wing area) maintain level when travelling well overspeed (450kts) in ground effect? Even with full DOWN trim and full stick forward I think it would be next to impossible.

Disclaimer: I am not a real world pilot or real world aircraft designer....and this is only a question. Don't shoot me.
 
Zone1
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 7:25 am

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 44):
No other building, especially built at the same time as the WTC in the 70s, that has suffered multiple floor fires has ever fallen as a result of the fires alone.

How many buildings have had catastrophic damage to their superstructure with jet fuel burning on multiple floors? It is fairly simple. The plane destroyed much of the support in the buildings. The loads were much higher on the remaining steel structure that was engulfed in burning jet fuel. You don't need to reach the melting point of steel for the steel to begin to bend. That is a fact. Once this remaining steel superstructure began to bend, the building collapsed.

Here is an example of what happens to steel buildings when jet fuel is burning in them:




Photos from RE: Fire At Sabena Technics Hangar 40 - Pictures (by Scorpio May 5 2006 in Civil Aviation)
/// U N I T E D
 
tinpusher007
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RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 7:32 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 84):
On the highways around the Pentagon, people stuck in traffic saw the AA aircraft flying low overhead prior to impact.

Ok, they saw them, but no camera could? You mean to tell me there is no other surveillance in and around the Pentagon other than those 5 frames that show an EXPLOSION, NOT AN AA 757 hitting the Pentagon. As someone said before, if thats the way it happened then why hide it? Why wait almost 5 years to release an 'offical' video thats been floating around for a nmuber of years after 9/11/01?

Do you really think the govt made a conclusive determination of what happened based on that footage alone? Of course not. They are hiding something. The question is why. Im not by any means saying that I know exactly what happened or didn't happen that day in D.C. However, the explaination that we were given leaves a lot of unanswered questions, you have to admit.

Many say that conspiracy theorists cant answer what happened to the pax of that aircraft and AA collected insurance on it, etc. But who can answer the questions of those who question what happened that day?
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
coa747
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:11 pm

RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 7:35 am

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 60):
Do you know what the melting point of tempered steel is? well over 2000 degrees. I don't have the figure in my head but jet fuel does not exceed 2000 degrees.

In a static fire perhaps but this was anything but. The fire was sheared increasing the surface area that was available to burn. Add in the pressure differential created by the fire as seen from the TV footage and a jet fuel fire can easily exceed 2000 degrees. Not to mention you start cooking off all that office furniture and materials. This fire was not like a traditional fire where you have ignition and then the fire burns until reaching flash point and then ignites into a full blown fire. Flash over occurred almost instantly. Don't believe me about the potential for jet fuel to reach incredibly hight temps read the British Airtours Manchester accident report.

Secondly to your point about the planes not being able to cause the collapse you aren't taking into account all of the structural columns that were completely destroyed on the impact floors. The 767-200 when overlayed in scale with the WTC buildings is about the same length and width. The building was severly compromised from the initial impact. It was the tube design that allowed it to keep standing as the weight was distributed to the other columns to carry the building load. But once the trusses failed there was nothing to keep the outer columns rigid and so eventually when enough trusses failed the outer colums buckled and the building collapsed.

Third a B-25 flying at low speed hit the Empire State Building. This accident does not compare in any way to 9-11 where you had airplanes that were much larger and flying almost 500 mph when they hit the building. You would be hard pressed to find any modern day sky scraper that could sustain an impact of that magnitude in force.

Don't even get me started about TWA 800. Because the missle theory doesn't fly. I am studying to become an aircraft accident investigator and there are so many problems with the missle theory. I don't have the time or energy to explain it to you. That is the problem with conspiracy theorists they have little if any expertise on the subject matter but claim things to be fact with no evidence.
 
saturn5
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:49 pm

RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 7:35 am

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 85):
Even with full DOWN trim and full stick forward I think it would be next to impossible.

I am glad you say "think" rather than "I know for fact".
No, you have misconception about the ground effect and how strongly it influences aerodynamics. You can fly a 757 that close to the ground almost at full throttle and have it trimmed at level flight never reaching close to full DOWN trim.
 
tinpusher007
Posts: 936
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:03 am

RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 7:42 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 88):
This might get me a ban, but I don't care. You're a fucking idiot dude. One of my very closest friends is a Lt. Col. stationed at the Pentagon in 2001, and was in his office just 200 feet from the edge of the impact area, looking out his window, watching a 757 approaching. He nearly lost his life that day, along with many others, and several thousand actually did lose their lives. You need to show some common sense and realize that the US Government isn't going to be able to stifle the many many MANY eye witnesses to what happened. MY friend knows what he saw and when he recounts it, I can see and feel the fear and pain that will haunt his soul for the rest of his life on this planet. There is absolutely no doubt in the minds of anyone with more than half a brain cell what occured on that horrible day. Unfortunately it's ignorant fucks like you that are intent on stirring up trouble and tormenting the hurting and grieving. Get a life.

All due respect to your feeelings and that of your friend, you are totally out of line with your comments. He in no way disrespected anyone who lost their life that day and neither have I. Every citizen in this country has a right to know exactly why so many people lost their lives that day and why the 'most power nation in the world' coudln't product its own military nerve center as well as the financial capital of the world on that day. If everything the govt said added up, there would be no legitimate questions as there are now. Ive said it before and I'll say it again IF IT HAPPENED THE WAY THEY SAID IT DID...SHOW IT AND SHUT ALL THE 'F'ING IDIOTS' UP! Unitl then, people have a right to question it. EVERY CITIZEN has a right to know and to question, not just people who were in NYC, D.C., Shanksville or knew someone who was there like you.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
CF188A
Posts: 680
Joined: Sun May 07, 2006 12:27 am

RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 7:43 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 84):
On the highways around the Pentagon, people stuck in traffic saw the AA aircraft flying low overhead prior to impact.

the same people who are so knowledgeable on aviation? Like they just drive by and see a plane flying at 500 knots.... sorry? not even going to argue
Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow~ RIP ... LJFM
 
thegooddoctor
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:12 am

RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 7:44 am

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 11):
The debate AFAIK is that if it was really a missile, what happened to that AA flight and its passengers?

They were transferred to the North Pole - there was an elf shortage as toy building capacity was exceeded by the sharp increase in the number of children being born in the third world.

Quoting Flaps (Reply 14):
The passenger debate was settled years ago.....They were spirited away by black helicopters to work in the mushroom mines of Pennsylvania so that production of magic mushrooms could be increased to feed the poor, starving, innocent alter boys at Gitmo........ crackup

I'm pretty sure I actually saw video of them manning a pirate ship off the coast of West Africa?


I love people who wear Tin Hats... Personally, the unfortunate part about talking to a person who is disposed to believe and propogate a conspiracy theory and dispense with reason is that I always wonder what personal limitations they have. I've found that people with trust issues are often not trustworthy...
The GoodDoctor
 
CMHSRQ
Posts: 847
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 1:49 am

RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 7:46 am

http://www.gvtinc.com/Meteor_Crater.jpg

This was supposedly created by a rock 150 feet across travelling at 25,000-40,000 mph. However because we do not have clear video of the impact I feel that it was really created by GWB and Enron drilling for Oil in AZ.
Also before 1492 the world was flat.

Seriously, I'm sure the government hides a lot of stuff from the public. However in the case of AA77 there is overwhelming evidence that a B757 hit the Pentagon, if you believe otherwise then you're an idiot, and arguing with me just proves that
The voice of moderation
 
IFEMaster
Posts: 4164
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:17 am

RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 7:52 am

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 91):
All due respect to your feeelings and that of your friend, you are totally out of line with your comments. He in no way disrespected anyone who lost their life that day and neither have I. Every citizen in this country has a right to know exactly why so many people lost their lives that day and why the 'most power nation in the world' coudln't product its own military nerve center as well as the financial capital of the world on that day. If everything the govt said added up, there would be no legitimate questions as there are now. Ive said it before and I'll say it again IF IT HAPPENED THE WAY THEY SAID IT DID...SHOW IT AND SHUT ALL THE 'F'ING IDIOTS' UP! Unitl then, people have a right to question it. EVERY CITIZEN has a right to know and to question, not just people who were in NYC, D.C., Shanksville or knew someone who was there like you.

If there was disrespected users list, you'd be at the top.

Unfortunately, even if the government did release video footage and pictures and audio, you and your fellow idiots would cry "Fake! Fake! Fake!". Currently, everything that is said does add up. What do you make of the many thousands of eye witnesses? Are they all liars?
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978
 
traineepilot
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:01 am

RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 7:52 am

I have just watched the conspiracy video poster earlier. I have to admit, it has definately made me think about a few things. Some of it is probably over exagerated, but the majority of it is extremely believable. I do think the collapse of the WTC was not right. It just didn't make sense how an airliners can collide with a tower 3/4 of the way up, and the building collapse in the way it did.

I think there is something else to 9/11 than meets the eye.
 
saturn5
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:49 pm

RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 7:52 am

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 91):
why the 'most power nation in the world' coudln't product its own military nerve center as well as the financial capital of the world on that day. If everything the govt said added up, there would be no legitimate questions as there are now

Oh, I am absolutely positive if you with your infinite wisdom were in the government before 9/11 none of that would have happened.
 
atmx2000
Posts: 4301
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 7:55 am

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 87):
Ok, they saw them, but no camera could? You mean to tell me there is no other surveillance in and around the Pentagon other than those 5 frames that show an EXPLOSION, NOT AN AA 757 hitting the Pentagon. As someone said before, if thats the way it happened then why hide it? Why wait almost 5 years to release an 'offical' video thats been floating around for a nmuber of years after 9/11/01?

Because a group sued to be allowed to release it.

Quote:
Do you really think the govt made a conclusive determination of what happened based on that footage alone? Of course not. They are hiding something. The question is why. Im not by any means saying that I know exactly what happened or didn't happen that day in D.C. However, the explaination that we were given leaves a lot of unanswered questions, you have to admit.

Why would they need that footage to make a conclusive determination of what happened? There were plenty of eye witnesses. An aircraft is missing. People on board AA77 were using their cell phones to talk to people on ground prior to impact cutting off communications. Aircraft parts were found in the vicinity of the impact site and within the building by emergency personnel. Do you think someone was going around sprinkling large bits of deformed metal from the aircraft in the midst of the emergency response? To anyone with common sense, AA77 hit the Pentagon. Trying to address the "unanswered questions" of conspiracy theorists who are predisposed to believe something else happens is a waste of time, because they want to believe something else.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
seanp11
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:16 am

RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 7:57 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 88):

This might get me a ban, but I don't care. You're a fucking idiot dude. One of my very closest friends is a Lt. Col. stationed at the Pentagon in 2001, and was in his office just 200 feet from the edge of the impact area, looking out his window, watching a 757 approaching. He nearly lost his life that day, along with many others, and several thousand actually did lose their lives. You need to show some common sense and realize that the US Government isn't going to be able to stifle the many many MANY eye witnesses to what happened. MY friend knows what he saw and when he recounts it, I can see and feel the fear and pain that will haunt his soul for the rest of his life on this planet. There is absolutely no doubt in the minds of anyone with more than half a brain cell what occured on that horrible day. Unfortunately it's ignorant fucks like you that are intent on stirring up trouble and tormenting the hurting and grieving. Get a life.

Welcome to my ru list. Hopefully you won't you banned.
 
ComeAndGo
Posts: 815
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:58 pm

RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 7:59 am

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 43):
If two aircraft were enough to bring down both WTC towers all on their own, then the Empire State Building should have been brought down by that B-52 back in the 50s. No other building, especially built at the same time as the WTC in the 70s, that has suffered multiple floor fires has ever fallen as a result of the fires alone.

The WTC had a different design than a classic steel high rise. The outer walls carried the entire building. There were no columns within the structure to hold up floors. On impact the two planes wings slashed through these walls compromised the entire building. Fire did the rest.

Quoting Braniff727 (Reply 51):
But, but, but the towers were designed to withstand the impact of a 707 on approach to JFK...

Yes, on approach, meaning not a lot of fuel. This has been covered over and over and over.

707 no fuel at approach speeds vs. 767 fully fueled at top speed.

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 60):
The explosions show that any fuel burning burned within seconds of the impact. Look at the twin towers. Huge fireballs. Guess what that is? Rapid burning of fuel. Those towers burned for an hour and a half with little fuel for that fire than what was on the interior of that building.

No. The fuel dispersed all over the building. Some of it came shooting down the elevator shafts. It was like a fuel bomb. It ignited everything at once.
 
INDIANABRIDOU
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:22 pm

RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 8:02 am

Watched it

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I'm clever enough not to believe everything our gouvernments say, but honestly, who the hell saw a 757???, It probably happened just the way we were TOLD but sometimes you gotta ask yourself, is it just possible that it was something else. Apparently democracy is a place where you CAN ask questions freely when in doubt.Ask yourself, it won't kill you.

"Ever had the thought you've been cheated" (Johnny Rotten)

It was all a damn shame anyway....but the wheel turns sometimes!
 
AA777
Posts: 2361
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 7:07 am

RE: Video Of AA Flt 77 To Be Released

Wed May 17, 2006 8:03 am

Quoting CMHSRQ (Reply 94):
However in the case of AA77 there is overwhelming evidence that a B757 hit the Pentagon, if you believe otherwise then you're an idiot, and arguing with me just proves that

Where's the evidence? Where are the pieces of AA77? Calling people who disagree with you "idiots" does nothing to pad your own credibility.

Those "videos" show NOTHING new. They show the explosion. They show something that CANNOT be identified flying low towards the pentagon. If you think that those videos give overwhelming evidence, look at them again. Find me one frame where anything that can be identified as an AA airplane can be seen. Neither side has 'overwhelmingly' convincing evidence, in my opinion. But I will not be convinced one way or the other until I see proof- just like what was seen at the WTC- that it was indeed an AA 757 that hit the pentagon. Even if the videos werent there...there are pictures that show the engines of the AA 767 that were shorn off when it hit the WTC.

Many of you act as if the Pentagon is in some isolated nowhere area in Iowa....There must be no other cameras other than the ones that show this video- we're in the middle of nowhere, right? It is in a huge city. Not just ANY city- Washington D.C. There is surveillance everywhere surrounding that area. You see the cameras everywhere. And I am talking miles away from the Pentagon. And they have been there even before 9/11. I dont believe for a second that there were not other videos that show the impact, or the plane coming in from an odd angle. I am from Washington D.C. I know the city's layout damn well. I know the roads, buildings and highways around the pentagon damn well. I ROUTINELY drive on the road where the 757 or WHATEVER it was flew over and hit the Pentagon. There are cameras everywhere. All I am asking for, is one frame that actually shows something- anything. You mean to tell me that in one of the most high-security buildings in the NATION they dont have other views of what happened? I'm sorry, that is complete crap. There are high rise buildings with security cameras that would easily show it coming in. The American people have a right to know what happened- whether it was an AA 757, or if it was a 'missile'. We deserve to know, and there is NO shame in wanting real answers, instead of blindly accepting a frankly low quality video that has a slower frame rate than my Nikon D70.

-AA777

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