dinker225
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AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Fri May 19, 2006 7:22 pm

http://www.ktuu.com/cms/anmviewer.asp?a=4871&z=1

This has not been a good week for Alaska.

Dinker
Two rules in aviation, don't hit anything and don't run out of gas, cause if you run out of gas yer gonna hit something.
 
F9Animal
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 12:38 am

WTF???? This is getting pretty crazy lately!

But..... I have never flown into FAI, but I have heard it can be an interesting approach. Now throw in strong crosswinds, and you have yourself a wing scraping the ground. Alaska pilots are some of the best, so I trust it was a biatch of a crosswind.



I remember seeing a video of an MD-80's wing scraping the ground during a thunderstorm.
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roseflyer
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 12:56 am

That must have been a tricky landing if the wing touched, and the pilot then had to do a go around. Does anyone know what the winds were like?

This is not a good thing to have happen as AS just had an engine failure into PDX.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
stirling
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 2:50 am

And yet everyone lived to talk about it.

News breeds news.
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as739x
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 3:42 am

This happens occationaly with MD80s and the low wing. Somewhere out there is a video of an American MD80 striking its wing at Las Vegas landing in a crosswind.

ASLAX
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 3:47 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 1):
but I have heard it can be an interesting approach.

FAI? Nope, not at all, North/South Runway, with nothing for miles to the south and nothing for miles to the north. Small hills, nothing of consequence. I fly in/out of there weekly. As a matter of fact, I find it to be a rather boring  zzz  airport as far as approach/departure.

Want some excitement, try JNU or KTN or SIT in a decent wind . . .



Weather there today:
MIDDLE TANANA VALLEY-
INCLUDING...FAIRBANKS...FORT WAINWRIGHT...EIELSON AFB...ESTER...
NORTH POLE...MOOSE CREEK...TWO RIVERS...FOX...CHATANIKA...CHENA
HOT SPRINGS...SOURDOUGH CAMP
733 AM ADT FRI MAY 19 2006

UPDATED WEATHER TODAY
.TODAY...MOSTLY CLOUDY. SCATTERED SHOWERS. PATCHY FOG OVER RIDGES
THIS MORNING. CLOUDS AND SHOWERS DECREASING IN THE AFTERNOON.
HIGHS AROUND 60. WEST WINDS TO 10 MPH.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
as739x
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 3:51 am

ANCFlyer: Ok, happened last night. Not this morning, so why is current weather being posted? Article says high winds! Actually AK flying in general can be one hell of an adventure despite mountains, no mountains, or location. Fairbanks included!

ASLAX
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 4:04 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 7):
Not this morning, so why is current weather being posted?

Cause someone asked what the weather was there today . . . no secret plot or anything . . .

Believe me, I know AS pilots can do some amazing things, nothing but respect for them, their abilities and what fly in/out/through up here . . . I just think FAI is not a real "sporty" airport to get in/out of . . .

http://www.airnav.com/airport/PAFA
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roseflyer
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 4:45 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
Believe me, I know AS pilots can do some amazing things, nothing but respect for them, their abilities and what fly in/out/through up here . . . I just think FAI is not a real "sporty" airport to get in/out of . . .

Yes some of the Alaska Airlines pilots doe fly into some "sporty airports" like you mentioned. Also they have to be accustomed to landing at an airport with low visability since SEA is the worst airport of any hub in the country for being under IFR conditions as the beacon is on so frequently during the day (or so I've heard). It's just a shame that they don't fly to Dutch Harbor anymore. At least AS doesn't have to deal with the daily thunderstorms that cause a mess in the midwest for airlines like UA, AA, and DL at ORD and ATL.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
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BALandorLivery
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 8:10 am

Well, Strong xwinds and an a/c with relatively low wing.

These things happen from time to time.
 
MUWarriors
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 10:05 am

I was suprised to hear about this as I hadn't noticed any major winds yesterday, but I was inside most of the day. Anyone know when this flight landed?
 
UAL747
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 10:12 am

I've landed in a UA 727 in strong Oklahoma thunderstorms. We were really wing low on the right side, and on the 727, there's not much wing clearance in the first place.

I've also had what looked like to be a scary wing low situation on a UA 744 landing at HKG. I sort of grabbed the armrest really tight as we landed.

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 10:18 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 4):
This happens occationaly with MD80s and the low wing.

I've never heard of it happening before. When? Where?
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
pilotaydin
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 10:58 am

Quoting BALandorLivery (Reply 9):
These things happen from time to time.

According to engineers that I know who are deep within the industry, these things are not supposed to happen, and often end up happening for 2 reasons most of the time

1. Bad cross wind technique
2. A/C operated beyond maximum wind limits

of course sometimes you get hit by a gust or some windshear, which would probably prompt a go around if it was large enough to bring your wing down to that sort of correction....

again i wasnt there so i don't know what happened but wing strikes aren't supposed to happen just like that...
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
halls120
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 11:14 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 5):
Want some excitement, try JNU or KTN or SIT in a decent wind . . .

Don't forget Dutch Harbor......
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
28L28L
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 11:26 am

Any info. on flt.# or acft. #?
 
flyingnanook
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 11:45 am

Quoting 28L28L (Reply 15):
Any info. on flt.# or acft. #?

The only MD80 into FAI right now is flight 99, which normally arrives around 2:30. I certainly don't remember yesterday being windy and I work only a few miles from the airport and can see nearly all the planes on approach to FAI.

Here's the forecast for yesterday, from yesterday morning.
.TODAY...MOSTLY CLOUDY. AREAS OF FOG AND DRIZZLE THROUGH MID-
MORNING. SCATTERED RAIN SHOWERS IN THE AFTERNOON. HIGHS 55 TO 60.
SOUTHWEST WINDS AROUND 5 MPH.

Now, if this weather report was true (which I think it was), I'm confused about where the crosswinds came from. It wasn't gusty yesterday and from what I remember the winds came from the southwest, based on the way things were blowing around yesterday. Planes landing at FAI generally land heading more or less southwest (heading northeast to land would put them in military air space I think) and I definately saw several planes landing in that direction between 2:00 and 3:00.
Semper ubi sub ubi.
 
jumbo747
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 12:10 pm

Is AS overlooked by FAA?

Cabin pressure incidents late last year, Engine failure at PDX. Too many wrong reasons in little time. Mmmm

 Sad
 
QXatFAT
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 1:52 pm

Quoting Jumbo747 (Reply 17):
Is AS overlooked by FAA?

Cabin pressure incidents late last year, Engine failure at PDX. Too many wrong reasons in little time. Mmmm

Nothing is wrong with AS. They are just haveing strokes of bad luck. I dont see how the FAA would be involved in cross winds and a wing strike. But okay.
Don't Tread On Me!
 
EIPremier
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 2:02 pm

First of all, the article I read at KGW said the wing "MAY" have touched the ground. Did not confirm a wing strike. Second, the aircraft was ferried back from FAI to SEA early Friday, so it doesn't sound like major damage.
 
burnsie28
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 2:30 pm

Quoting Jumbo747 (Reply 17):
Is AS overlooked by FAA?

Every airline is in the US otherwise its not flying.
 
wjcandee
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 2:42 pm

Quoting EIPremier (Reply 19):
First of all, the article I read at KGW said the wing "MAY" have touched the ground.



Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 18):
I dont see how the FAA would be involved in cross winds and a wing strike. But okay.

From the FAA:

http://www.faa.gov/data_statistics/a...ary_data/events01/media/11_949.txt

"DESCRIPTION: STRUCK RIGHT WING ON LANDING. AIRCRAFT ABORTED LANDING AND INITIATED A CLIMB OUT. FAIRBANKS, ALASKA"

They say it was a DC9, but it had 140 pax on board so it wasn't -- well, it was a DC9-80. Last clearance was "RUNWAY ONE NINER RIGHT CLEARED TO LAND".

"WEATHER: 2153Z 25006KTS 10SM BKN048 BKN100 10/06 2991"

Hope this helps.
 
darrenthe747
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 2:59 pm

Quote:
Quoting Stirling Reply 3
And yet everyone lived to talk about it.

News breeds news.

Please don't try to downplay this like it's normal. A wing strike is not normal; and even though nobody was hurt, it had an awful lot of potential to be catastrophic. a.net folks often times play down events like they are nothing. everything is just media sensationalism. sorry, but that could have been really really bad.
All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.
 
brownbat
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 3:05 pm

Quoting Jumbo747 (Reply 17):
Is AS overlooked by FAA?

Cabin pressure incidents late last year, Engine failure at PDX. Too many wrong reasons in little time. Mmmm

Sad

Jumbo make sure you check the facts before you make general statements you have no idea about. Most of the last incidents that have happend were not because of Alaska's mistakes. And why would the FAA look into alaska because they had one bad landing?? Nothing is wrong with alaska and once they replace with MD80s they will have one the youngest fleet averages.
 
F9Animal
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 3:36 pm

Quoting Darrenthe747 (Reply 22):
Please don't try to downplay this like it's normal. A wing strike is not normal; and even though nobody was hurt, it had an awful lot of potential to be catastrophic. a.net folks often times play down events like they are nothing. everything is just media sensationalism. sorry, but that could have been really really bad.

I agree that it could have been bad. But if I had to be in a plane that had a wing hit the ground, I would rather be in the hands of the AS pilots anyday. Those boys and gals can fly dumptrucks if they have wings on them.

If I had to check my bags....... Alright... That is another subject. Come on F9Animal, STAY ON TOPIC!!!  Smile
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
QXatFAT
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 3:43 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 24):
agree that it could have been bad. But if I had to be in a plane that had a wing hit the ground, I would rather be in the hands of the AS pilots anyday. Those boys and gals can fly dumptrucks if they have wings on them.

If I had to check my bags....... Alright... That is another subject. Come on F9Animal, STAY ON TOPIC!!!

Okay F9Animal, point made haha. But I agree. My faith goes into the AS pilots any day.

Quoting Darrenthe747 (Reply 22):
Please don't try to downplay this like it's normal. A wing strike is not normal; and even though nobody was hurt, it had an awful lot of potential to be catastrophic. a.net folks often times play down events like they are nothing. everything is just media sensationalism. sorry, but that could have been really really bad.

I could not agree more! I hate how most a.netters are so quick to congradulate someone who takes a emergincy picture. It makes me furrious! There are a lot of sick people here on a.net
Don't Tread On Me!
 
wjcandee
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 4:07 pm

Quoting Darrenthe747 (Reply 22):
A wing strike is not normal; and even though nobody was hurt, it had an awful lot of potential to be catastrophic.

In the report I cited above regarding this specific event, the aircraft damage is described as "substantial".
 
We're Nuts
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 4:19 pm

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 26):
In the report I cited above regarding this specific event, the aircraft damage is described as "substantial".

I have yet to see "insubstantial" aircraft damage.  Wink
Dear moderators: No.
 
darrenthe747
Posts: 387
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 4:42 pm

Quote:
Quoting Wjcandee Reply 26
In the report I cited above regarding this specific event, the aircraft damage is described as "substantial".

Indeed, I was just commenting on Stirling's reply (3) that just becuase everybody walked away uninjured doesn't change the fact that this situation was serious. another few inches could have torn the wing off the fuselage for all we know. Wing strikes are very bad. Any while most times I believe that media reports make moutains out of molehills, some a.netters try to downplay ANY incident as "no big deal." This in my opinion, is a very big deal. I'm sure the damage was substantial. 130 mph of metal scraping across ground is not going to look pretty.
All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.
 
darrenthe747
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 5:01 pm

Quote:
We're Nuts Reply 27
I have yet to see "insubstantial" aircraft damage.

Insubstantial:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sarmad Al-Khozaie



Substantial:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alex McMahon


pretty straight forward, really  Smile
All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.
 
We're Nuts
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 5:31 pm

Heh, it's not quite that simple. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen the word "insubstantial" appear on an NTSB report... although if I'm using cyclical logic, you're taking it to the extreme!
Dear moderators: No.
 
darrenthe747
Posts: 387
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 6:00 pm

yes, i was being somewhat facetious Silly and i was going to try and show you up by citing a reference to an NTSB report with the word "insubstantial" in it, but you are right! no such word exists in any search of ntsb reports! (yes, i have a lot of time on my hands right now...maybe a bit too much)


in·sub·stan·tial ( P ) (nsb-stnshl)
adj.
Lacking substance or reality. See Synonyms at immaterial.

Not firm or solid; flimsy.
Delicate; fine.
Negligible in size or amount.
All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.
 
Tancrede
Posts: 235
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 6:19 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 24):
agree that it could have been bad. But if I had to be in a plane that had a wing hit the ground, I would rather be in the hands of the AS pilots anyday. Those boys and gals can fly dumptrucks if they have wings on them.

If I had to check my bags....... Alright... That is another subject. Come on F9Animal, STAY ON TOPIC!!!

Oh come on, stop this cowboy talk. It is clear that they are good pilots, and I respect them for that, but they can be subject to any accidents like any other companies in the world. The only advantage they have over others is to know their ground. But for me, pilots from AF, AY, UA, DL, and else are as good. Otherwise, I would have problems to travel around the world.
 
socalatc
Posts: 428
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 6:54 pm

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 12):
I've never heard of it happening before. When? Where?

Don't have the exact dates and flights, but it happened not too long ago on an American MD in LAS. There was video and it was quite impressive. Nothing is wrong with Alaska, I think that things like this are more common that people think. FAI, or anywhere in the State of Alaska can be very tricky to get into, Alaska pilots are some of the best in the industry and would trust my life and my family's with their skills.
 
darrenthe747
Posts: 387
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:40 pm

RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 6:58 pm

Tancrede, I completely agree with you. It's pretty silly to say how "safe" you feel with an Alaska Air pilot as opposed to another airline's pilot. Any pilot of any airline can screw up and crash a plane. and by the way, we still don't know what the actual reason for the wing strike was... it POSSIBLE it was caused by an overcontrol input on the pilot's part. we don't know yet, plain and simple. But I feel just as safe on a United, Delta, Lufthansa, Aer Lingus, as I do on an Alaska Jet.
All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.
 
halls120
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 10:08 pm

Quoting Socalatc (Reply 33):
Don't have the exact dates and flights, but it happened not too long ago on an American MD in LAS. There was video and it was quite impressive. Nothing is wrong with Alaska, I think that things like this are more common that people think. FAI, or anywhere in the State of Alaska can be very tricky to get into, Alaska pilots are some of the best in the industry and would trust my life and my family's with their skills.

Back in 1989-91, a Mark Air 737 suffered sigificant wing damage upon landing at Dutch Harbor. I know, because the you could see the aircraft undergoing repair from the fueling dock where our ship moored for refueling.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
harrisair
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:38 am

RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sat May 20, 2006 11:19 pm

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 21):
RUNWAY ONE NINER RIGHT CLEARED TO LAND".

"WEATHER: 2153Z 25006KTS 10SM BKN048 BKN100 10/06 2991"

While there was a crosswind, at 6 knots it is not something that would push the airplane or the pilot to the limits where the upwind wing gets too close to the ground.

Harris
 
alaska737
Posts: 867
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sun May 21, 2006 12:22 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 35):
Back in 1989-91, a Mark Air 737 suffered sigificant wing damage upon landing at Dutch Harbor. I know, because the you could see the aircraft undergoing repair from the fueling dock where our ship moored for refueling.

thats considerd a good landing in Ducth.  Smile
 
darrenthe747
Posts: 387
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:40 pm

RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sun May 21, 2006 1:36 am

hey, wasn't there a story about 8 years ago (i remember this because i was in flight school at the time and the instructor had a field day with it) an Alaska Airlines pilot was flying his family in his own private plane and ran out of fuel and crashed because he forgot to visually check the tanks?
All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.
 
wjcandee
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sun May 21, 2006 2:39 am

Quoting We're Nuts (Reply 27):
I have yet to see "insubstantial" aircraft damage

For what it's worth (not just we're nuts but also the other posters referencing the damage description):

The FAA, in its accident summaries, uses five damage categories: "unknown", "none", "minor", "substantial" and "destroyed".
 
vegasplanes
Posts: 656
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:22 pm

RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sun May 21, 2006 3:25 am

Quoting Socalatc (Reply 33):
Don't have the exact dates and flights, but it happened not too long ago on an American MD in LAS.

May of 2005, I don't recall the exact date.

One of the local news stations had footage somebody shot of it landing, the wing tip touching the runway. It was a "home" video somebody shot of it landing, I believe Runway 7R.

Try one of the local LAS news stations websites:

www.kvvu.com
www.klas.com
www.kvbc.com
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2100
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:30 am

RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sun May 21, 2006 8:36 am

Quoting Socalatc (Reply 33):
Alaska pilots are some of the best in the industry

how do people reach this conclusion? i mean most pilots nev er have an emergency to deal with, so what test have they gone through, in order for you to make such a statement, FYI, the industry you speak of, includes the ENTIRE world....
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
roadrunner165
Posts: 838
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2000 6:28 am

RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Sun May 21, 2006 9:19 am

Quoting HarrisAir (Reply 36):
While there was a crosswind, at 6 knots it is not something that would push the airplane or the pilot to the limits where the upwind wing gets too close to the ground.

From what I read in the Anchorage paper this morning it sounds like the pilot in command noticed the aircraft was a little off to the left of the center line and thus dipped the right wing in order to line the aircraft back up with the center line. Maybe the pilot thought he/she had more time to make the correction then they actually did.

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 26):
In the report I cited above regarding this specific event, the aircraft damage is described as "substantial".

The newspaper I read this morning said the aircraft was able to fly back to Seattle for repair, I assume it will not be out for to long for repairs, but substantial damage never the less.  Smile

Adam
 
Svenskpilot
Posts: 29
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Thu May 25, 2006 7:49 pm

If I remember correctly, a TAP A310 hit the ground with one of its wingtip fences in JFK a couple years back. The Portuguese president was also onboard at the time. Needless to say, that pilot is probably flying Cessna 150s in the Azores now.
 
 
darrenthe747
Posts: 387
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:40 pm

RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Thu May 25, 2006 8:26 pm

well i dunno, that report seems to point more at pilot error than anything...
All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.
 
CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2380
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RE: AS Wing Touches Ground On Landing

Thu May 25, 2006 10:03 pm

Quoting HarrisAir (Reply 36):
While there was a crosswind, at 6 knots it is not something that would push the airplane or the pilot to the limits where the upwind wing gets too close to the ground.

In a swept wing jet the higher the nose up pitch the less bank angle it takes to drag a wing tip. Increasing the flare to "roll it on" and lowering the wing in a slight x-wind and bango.

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