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blrsea
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PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 10:17 am

PIA claims that its new Boeing 777-200LR doesn't meet specifications...

Concern over B-777s' quality

Quote:
LAHORE - The B-777s delivered to PIA earlier this year are stated to be not up to the required specification and the management has expressed its concern over its quality, sources in the national flag carrier confided to The Nation here on Sunday.

As per sources, the planes cannot gain the required height during flight and are consuming more fuel, causing loss to the airline.

Two reasons are being attributed to not gaining the required height - the fuel burden and climate of the country. The plane was purchased to fly non-stop to New York, Toronto and Chicago, so it has to carry a huge amount of fuel; consequently cannot gain the required height during the initial three hours flight.

However, when a certain quantity of fuel was consumed, the plane could gain required height - ‘’when a plane makes low flight it consumes more fuel’’ an official of engineering department said.
Temperature and climate of the country was also described as hindrance in the take off of the plane. ...
 
jacobin777
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 10:19 am

.if there is a problem, I'm sure Boeing will come and assist to solve the problem as during the flight testing, the plane actually burned less fuel than orginally anticipated.
"Up the Irons!"
 
krisyyz
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 10:32 am

All of the 772LR flight test showed a lower than expected fuel burn. As always this sort of data only comes out once a type is in full operation. I would suspect that the Indian climate conditions have a large role to play in the TO and initial climb. Both the aforementioned issue and the lack of qualified pilots should of been more closely looked at before the LRs went into PIA's fleet.
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 10:41 am

Interesting, since one of the two 772LR's that PIA flies met Boeing's predictions with fuel to spare in setting the world distance record for a commercial airplane.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
aseem
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 10:44 am

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 3):
Interesting, since one of the two 772LR's that PIA flies met Boeing's predictions with fuel to spare in setting the world distance record for a commercial airplane.

you mean PIA has the one that flew from HKG-LHR?
rgds
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OldAeroGuy
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 10:48 am

Quoting Aseem (Reply 4):
you mean PIA has the one that flew from HKG-LHR?
rgds
VT-ASJ

Yes, only two 772LR's have been produced and PIA has both of them.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
jacobin777
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications.

Mon May 22, 2006 10:49 am

Quoting Aseem (Reply 4):

you mean PIA has the one that flew from HKG-LHR?

PK has BOTH -200LR's.....and its interesting, as this particular -200LR came from to SFO directly from India


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474218
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 10:49 am

Quoting Blrsea (Thread starter):

Concern over B-777s' quality[/quote]

Sounds as if PIA is concerned with the B777's performance, not its QUALITY?
 
NAV20
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 10:56 am

As far as I know PIA has been routeing flights via Manchester (UK) anyway because of staff troubles etc.? A few more reasons also given in the article:-

"A PIA official requesting anonymity said the said planes were purchased specially for the non-stop flight from Pakistan to US, but after their delivery to PIA, US security forces did not allow direct flights from Pakistani International Airports to USA.

"According to the sources, US security forces declared Karachi airport as the only secured airport, and allowed direct flights from there - PIA was ready to operate its non-stop flights from Karachi but DG CAA took stand on the issue and did not allow operation from Karachi also.

"Besides this, there was also shortage of the skilled pilots to operate the B-777 as only senior pilots could fly such planes. A number of pilots have already left the Airline to seek better opportunities of job.

"According to the IATA rules the pilots operating B-777 were supposed to be relieved of duty three hours before and three hours after the flight in order to ready themselves for the next flight but the pilots were being given no such facilities.

To operate the B-777, a pilot will have to go through a training program. Some circles in PIA revealed that the airline was trying to come over the issue."
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
jacobin777
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications.

Mon May 22, 2006 11:06 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 8):
As far as I know PIA has been routeing flights via Manchester (UK) anyway because of staff troubles etc.? A few more reasons also given in the article:-

PK has had a problem with its nonstop Pakistan-United States route....not the other way around, nor its PK-YYZ-PK routes..

lack of pilots is also a problem for now..

and as mentioned, the -200LR's performed very well during the flight testing..probably some glitch which needs to be solved...

[Edited 2006-05-22 04:09:57]
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DfwRevolution
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 11:10 am

Quoting Blrsea (Thread starter):
As per sources, the planes cannot gain the required height during flight and are consuming more fuel, causing loss to the airline.

If it's a climb performance issue, why can't the -110B engines be reprogramed to the full thrust capability of the mechanically identical -115B engine?

Boeing typically biases their aircraft for optimum cruise efficency and allow the engines to "power" their way to altitude. Ergo, remove the paper-derating and performance should improve.

The certification requirements for that sort of modification would be very limited.

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 3):
Interesting, since one of the two 772LR's that PIA flies met Boeing's predictions with fuel to spare in setting the world distance record for a commercial airplane.

Indeed! May this be the first time in recent history that a customer has ever publically commented about the B777 not performing to expectations?

I also wonder if their issue is with the advertized capability of the aircraft at launch in 2000 or with a capability later advertized by Boeing as performance of the B777LR began to exceed expectations in 2003? In other words: is it living up to the orginial specs, but perhaps not to some of the improvements that came later?
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zeke
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 11:11 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 7):
Sounds as if PIA is concerned with the B777's performance, not its QUALITY

This not a simple cut and dry issue, they have been complaining about this for a couple of years. As part of the deal, Boeing was to provide fee parts and service, which didn't turn out exactly as they thought.

This has been reported before in the Satribune newpapers with problems they have had with other 777s. Have a look at this link to see how the locals view the situation deal....http://flightsimpakistan.com/fsp/aviation/taj/blunder.htm

Maybe something in it, maybe not. One does wonder how one of the poorest third world countries that relies heavily on international aid was able to become the launch customer of the 772LR.
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PolymerPlane
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 11:11 am

With basically the same engine and basic aircraft design as B773ER, I am really surprised about this claim, especially with the intial climb performance.
B772LR has 110klbs of thrust with 766klb of MTOW, while B773ER has 115klbs of thrust and 775klb of MTOW. The thrust to weight ratio is very similar between the two and we already heard that 773ER exceeds its performance expectation.

Cheers,
PP
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NAV20
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 11:17 am

Looks like this is the real reason:-

"US security forces did not allow direct flights from Pakistani International Airports to USA. According to the sources, US security forces declared Karachi airport as the only secured airport, and allowed direct flights from there - PIA was ready to operate its non-stop flights from Karachi but DG CAA took stand on the issue and did not allow operation from Karachi also."

For once, can't say I blame the US authorities.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
jacobin777
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 11:35 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 11):

Maybe something in it, maybe not. One does wonder how one of the poorest third world countries that relies heavily on international aid was able to become the launch customer of the 772LR.

they got a great deal on the plane..and they aren't a country in a complete need of handouts.....

not to mention, they have been pioneer flyers of Boeing jets in the Asian region for decades
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sebring
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 11:58 am

Well, it was 47C (122F) in Lahore this week, so maybe that kind of heat is a factor.
 
khobar
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 12:08 pm

Quoting Blrsea (Thread starter):
PIA claims that its new Boeing 777-200LR doesn't meet specifications...

This is old news. There was a discussion about the "scandalous" PIA purchase not too long ago where "super sekrit" papers were relased to the press by the opposition party proving that Boeing was bribing officials in promising to fix various deficiencies - under warranty. LOL.
 
jacobin777
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications.

Mon May 22, 2006 12:21 pm

I like from the article...

"One of the staffer, serving in the said plane said that in-flight entertainment system was not properly working from the very first day of its operation."

not only have I not read this anywhere except for this article, a few of my family have flown on the -200LR a few times already and none have complained about the in-flight entertainment system not working...

" As cargo section of the plane is also very small, the cargo business has also been reduced, as per the sources."

yah...sure, cargo on the -200LR is terrible, especially considering PK didn't have the auxiliary tanks installed...... sarcastic 
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N754PR
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 2:21 pm

This will not go down very well. I thought Boeing always meet their goals.
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ikramerica
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 2:26 pm

Quoting Blrsea (Thread starter):
However, when a certain quantity of fuel was consumed, the plane could gain required height - ‘’when a plane makes low flight it consumes more fuel’’ an official of engineering department said.

This is how the freaking plane is designed to work! It's as if they've never flown a long range jet before. They ALL start at a lower altitude until fuel is burned off and then climb to a higher altitude over time until they reach optimum cruise.

The 747 does this, the 340, the MD11, the 772ER.

It's the point many made in the first place about the ineficiency of flying such long distances non-stop, as you burn a lot of fuel to just carry that extra fuel to get you further, and restricts revenue payload.

It's as if they want non-stop routes to the USA to be just as fuel efficient on a per mile basis as flights to London. That is not going to happen with current technology.

But if you read further, there are many, many, many reasons that they can't achieve operational efficiency, and most of them are due to the nature of their airline in the region of the world they are based.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
jumboforever
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 2:42 pm

I'm really puzzled by this article.

Let alone the typing mistakes (2004 instead of 2006) I don't see what's the cargo capacity has to do here. I mean, the cargo size is known way ahead. Maybe PIA didn't realize that cargo can't be filled up when you're full of fuel.

As for the Board not being informed about the details of the deal of the plane!!! Come on, who's running that airline ?

This is only bashing because they can't fly direct to the US.

Not worth concerning about it.

Regards,

JumboForever
 
boysteve
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 2:55 pm

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 2):
I would suspect that the Indian climate conditions have a large role to play in the TO and initial climb

I think that PK usually fly from Pakistan
 
scoliodon
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 3:04 pm

That's right Boysteve, but Pakistan is also part of the Indian "Subcontinent" and has essentially similar climatic conditions - mountains, deserts, heat, humidity etc.
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subkk
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 3:05 pm

Quoting Boysteve (Reply 22):
I think that PK usually fly from Pakistan

It does not matter much, Lahore and Delhi have similiar weather, Karachi and Bombay(Mumbai) have similiar weather, Karachi may be a little hotter.

Thanks, Subramanian
 
Joost
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 3:22 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 7):
Sounds as if PIA is concerned with the B777's performance, not its QUALITY?

In many (also American) books about Operations Management, Quality stands for way more than just durability. It also includes performance, value-for-money, reliability, etc. It's a somewhat different interpretation than how the word is used in daily life, where it usually only stands for how durable something is built.
 
khobar
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 3:22 pm

Quoting N754PR (Reply 19):
This will not go down very well. I thought Boeing always meet their goals.

What goals is Boeing not meeting?
 
wjcandee
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 3:31 pm

That they don't have enough pilots for it is probably a primary issue. That they admit that their most trained guys are fleeing for other airlines and their higher pay is most likely the major problem.

Remember the rule: If it's the other guy's fault, blame yourself for trusting him. If it's your fault, blame the other guy, and quick!

Given that Boeing thoroughly tested the specific aircraft that they are flying, it's hard to imagine that it started running substantially worse as soon as it was handed over to PIA. (I know, I know. "Or maybe it isn't.")

As to the IFE, puh-leese. If it's a standard setup, then there's someone who can get it running right. It's all a matter of just getting a good tech in there. Maybe f/a training to operate it properly, as well?
 
kaitak744
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 3:53 pm

Well, this problem might not persist with the implement of the GE90-115b engines on the 777-200LR.
 
tbear815
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 3:58 pm

If PIA is upset with the planes, I'm sure some airline in some part of the world would take them off their hands. Could it be that the Pakistani's might be a bit "in over their heads" on this one? And no, I am not flaming anyone!
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 3:58 pm

Quoting Blrsea (Thread starter):
Temperature and climate of the country was also described as hindrance in the take off of the plane

What temperature and climate complications would these be specifically?
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777wt
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 4:18 pm

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 30):
What temperature and climate complications would these be specifically?

High temp would require the need for longer runways and more fuel to burn. Engines perform best at cold temps.
 
Mr.BA
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 4:23 pm

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 30):
What temperature and climate complications would these be specifically?

As ambient temprature increases, more thrust is required to power the plane to take-off as air is less dense.
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777wt
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 4:23 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 11):
This has been reported before in the Satribune newpapers with problems they have had with other 777s. Have a look at this link to see how the locals view the situation deal....http://flightsimpakistan.com/fsp/aviation/taj/blunder.htm

They don't seem to get the point. Saying they could get a 777 from another airline for 86 mil instead of a new one from Boeing for 250 mil.

Tell me what airline has the 777-200LR in service where they could get it for 86 mil. None!

It's the 777-200ER they're in fact would be for $86 mil.

And they said the A310 would've been a better choice, hello I don't see this doing international service well enough.
 
Pulkovokiwi
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 4:27 pm

This from an airline that crashed it's Boeing 720 on it's inaugural flight all those years ago. I do not regard PIA as a credible operator and would never fly them.
I thought I was wrong but I was only joking!
 
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keesje
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 4:53 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 11):
One does wonder how one of the poorest third world countries that relies heavily on international aid was able to become the launch customer of the 772LR.

 Yeah sure

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 14):
they got a great deal on the plane..and they aren't a country in a complete need of handouts.....

 Yeah sure

Quoting N754PR (Reply 19):
I thought Boeing always meet their goals.

 Yeah sure

Well lets not forget this is a complex situation & we don't know for real what is happening behind the curtains..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Stealthz
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 4:57 pm

Quoting Pulkovokiwi (Reply 35):
This from an airline that crashed it's Boeing 720 on it's inaugural flight all those years ago. I do not regard PIA as a credible operator and would never fly them.

And Air New Zealand crashed it's 2nd DC-8 while it's crew were trying to figure out how to fly it in 1966, do you refuse to fly with ANZ as well?
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fuffla
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 4:58 pm

What are the orders like for the 772LR?
 
VivaGunners
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 5:34 pm

Quoting Fuffla (Reply 38):
What are the orders like for the 772LR?

I think there are orders from Air Canada and Air India, plus some frighters as well. There should be also an order for 3 frames from EVA Air, but I'm not sure about this one, maybe it has been cancelled or converted.
Hope this helps...
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cricket
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 5:45 pm

Hold on a sec, you really believe news reports in the Pakistani media? There was a thread a month ago where one newspaper claimed because the reporter/editor couldn't understand how an aircraft financing deal was struck (that said, most of us won't understand it either) that Citibank and not PK owned the planes until the loans were paid off and that was a scandal - um, duh!
See, until the PIA official goes 'on record' and not 'anonymously' never treat such stories seriously. I'm not saying this because I'm pro-Boeing or anything, its just that this news report reads very fishy.
For one, how low is low? Its not as if the 777-200LR is flying at FL100 for three hours and then suddenly climbs to FL390? And secondly, the prevailing winds over the subcontinent right now are rather incondusive to long-range flight - ask any airline that flies in here.
been there, flown that
 
atmx2000
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 6:09 pm

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 39):
I remember, Thorben, although in fairness, NW did start their statement by saying "as is usual for most aircraft........", and include the words "in our standard configuration".

This would probably be for range after cargo as design payloads have no cargo other than passenger bags. Airlines don't want to fly fuel in place of cargo, as they are paying for that space.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 41):
Hold on a sec, you really believe news reports in the Pakistani media? There was a thread a month ago where one newspaper claimed because the reporter/editor couldn't understand how an aircraft financing deal was struck (that said, most of us won't understand it either) that Citibank and not PK owned the planes until the loans were paid off and that was a scandal - um, duh!
See, until the PIA official goes 'on record' and not 'anonymously' never treat such stories seriously. I'm not saying this because I'm pro-Boeing or anything, its just that this news report reads very fishy.
For one, how low is low? Its not as if the 777-200LR is flying at FL100 for three hours and then suddenly climbs to FL390? And secondly, the prevailing winds over the subcontinent right now are rather incondusive to long-range flight - ask any airline that flies in here.

The article is rather hard to follow, as the writer jumps through a whole bunch of topics and issues without fleshing things out. And without information regarding his sources, it is difficult to assess what are real issues and data points and what are just random observations by unknowledgable people.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
NG737PSR
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 6:18 pm

I don't suppose if anyone has taken into account whether PIA are accurate with the weights they use for their passengers hold and hand luggage. I've seen PIA flights being checked in at Manchester. I'd put money on their being more weight on their aircraft than they account for. I bet a lot of hand baggage doesn't get presented at check in properly. I wouldn't think that PIA would do things accurately on departure from Pakistan and more weight would be on the aircraft than accounted for.
 
Sjoerd
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 6:24 pm

Limitations of a twin?
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deaphen
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 6:31 pm

Taking this article, however un creditable it may be, if PIA is facing this problem, do you think it is a wise idea on Air India's part to order a bunch of the LR's?
If i remember correctly, the AI decision was also a brash and quick one based on alot of politics. Correct me if i am wrong. If the USA can not allow direct flights from Pakistan, what makes it sure that they will allow direct flights from DEL or BOM?
I want every single airport and airplane in India to be on A.net!
 
MERLIN
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 6:32 pm

Quoting Cricket (Reply 41):
Hold on a sec, you really believe news reports in the Pakistani media

Reports like these could spoil the image of the airline and boeing and as far as i know news paper officials are gonna get a serious wack for publishing such a report.

boeing must have surely looked upon all the factor before manufacturing this aircraft..weather is always a serious problem. If PIA talks of inefficeincy i think they should turn there heads towards the engine's or their crew standards.

Does any one have the statement of the boeing in answer for this report ?
"Aviation & Black hole carry same effect,once any where near it you're bound to get sucked in".
 
MERLIN
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 6:38 pm

Quoting Deaphen (Reply 45):
If i remember correctly, the AI decision was also a brash and quick one based on alot of politics. Correct me if i am wrong. If the USA can not allow direct flights from Pakistan, what makes it sure that they will allow direct flights from DEL or BOM?

your statement is absoulutly right, Now with these reports coming in about the inefficiency lets see what AI does about its LR's as it is the second one to take the delivery.
"Aviation & Black hole carry same effect,once any where near it you're bound to get sucked in".
 
deaphen
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 6:44 pm

Quoting MERLIN (Reply 47):
your statement is absoulutly right, Now with these reports coming in about the inefficiency lets see what AI does about its LR's as it is the second one to take the delivery.

I guess time will tell... but u know what? Its my personal opinion, but i dont think the aviation ministry has made its decision wisely. I dont know why, i have this very nagging feeling that they have spent less time on the decision making process.

Maybe its cuz i feel the decision makers are still "babus" i dunno why i feel that way. I just dont think thei order of the massive number of 787's was wise. Please feel free to give your comments.

As far as Pakistan goes, i wouldnt be shocked if the move to buy these LR's was totally politically motivated. And the same goes to India, both seem to be wanting to impress the USA, Pakistan more blatantly and India subtly.
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Stealthz
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RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 6:50 pm

Quoting Pulkovokiwi (Reply 48):
StealthZ. The ANZ DC8 prang was a training accident where reverse thrust was accidentally selected for one set of engines. Douglas made changes to the throttle linkages after that to prevent a repeat. PIA standards for Plainly Incomptentent Airline and has a dismal safety record.

This may all be true but it was you that singled out a 40+Year old incident to damn the credibility of an airline!!
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!....well that might have changed!!!
 
atmx2000
Posts: 4301
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 6:52 pm

Quoting Deaphen (Reply 45):
If i remember correctly, the AI decision was also a brash and quick one based on alot of politics.

The AI technical committee recommended the 777 both times there was an RFP. The first time the order went for the A343 over the 772ER. That order was never firmed as those aircraft were already at the end of their marketable life. The next time the order went for the 777LR family over the A340NG family. So which one was more political, the first one where the tech committee recommendation was ignored or the 2nd one where it was followed?


Quote:
Correct me if i am wrong. If the USA can not allow direct flights from Pakistan, what makes it sure that they will allow direct flights from DEL or BOM?

US airlines are already flying non-stop to India, so I would assume security is adequate in India.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
stirling
Posts: 3896
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:00 am

RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 6:57 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 10):
Boeing typically biases their aircraft for optimum cruise efficency and allow the engines to "power" their way to altitude. Ergo, remove the paper-derating and performance should improve.

That may be true, but then we are back to the efficiency issue. They are saying they are burning too much fuel.....in their words, "causing loss to the airline".

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 8):
According to the IATA rules the pilots operating B-777 were supposed to be relieved of duty three hours before and three hours after the flight in order to ready themselves for the next flight but the pilots were being given no such facilities.

How is somebody relieved of duty, 3 hours before they start?
Is Pakistan-USA one crew or two?

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 30):
What temperature and climate complications would these be specifically?

Its bloody hot!

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 39):
Interesting - I never heard this one being put forward for A345's operating out of Singapore

Singapore and Karachi are two entirely different balls of wax.
For one, KHI has been running about 10-15 degrees (F) warmer than SIN.

So, the question I have is this. Is there any aircraft on the market today that can do a better job on these nonstop routes from Pakistan to USA?

Does Canada allow nonstop flights from Pakistan?

According to the websites of Boeing and Airbus, the 772LR and A345 have max ranges of 9420nm and 8670nm respectively.

And here's the part I absolutely do not understand at all, KHI to JFK, YYZ, and ORD is 6300nm, 6300nm, and 6600nm.....?
There should be another 3000nm left!

What gives? OK, so PK doesn't have the aux tanks installed, what does this take it down to? 7500nm?
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deaphen
Posts: 1090
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:57 am

RE: PIA Claims B777-200LR Not Upto Specifications...

Mon May 22, 2006 7:01 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 52):
The AI technical committee recommended the 777 both times there was an RFP. The first time the order went for the A343 over the 772ER. That order was never firmed as those aircraft were already at the end of their marketable life. The next time the order went for the 777LR family over the A340NG family. So which one was more political, the first one where the tech committee recommendation was ignored or the 2nd one where it was followed?

I agree with your point, but what i dont get is what basis was the 787 and the 777 were ordered on? What is the main criteria? And that too such a huge amount of them.
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