Elderly Passenger Creates A "Disturbance"

PanAm747 · Wed May 24, 2006 12:37 am

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060523/ap_on_re_us/plane_disturbance

An 80 year old man who speaks no English left his seat in coach, went into first class and shoved a flight attendant, and appeared to be headed for the cockpit.

A plastic surgeon who also has a black belt in karate helped restrain the surprisingly agile old man until the plane landed.

The elderly man is being held for 72 hours for psychiatric observation.

You just never know about your fellow passengers anymore, do you?

symphonik · Wed May 24, 2006 12:55 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Thread starter):
A plastic surgeon who also has a black belt in karate helped restrain the surprisingly agile old man until the plane landed.

I'm pretty sure that's the first... and last...time I will ever hear that phrase.

manni · Wed May 24, 2006 12:56 am

An old man, who doesn't understand english.

Fact, He doesn't understand the inflight announcements, nor the writing on the walls, nor the flight attendant questioning him.

What might have happened, All he wants is to go for a pee, get's up, sees a door, which he thinks is the toilet, it appears to be the cockpit.

Result? Someone feels the need to play hero in search of his one minute of fame, and grabs the poor bastard (what a hero, challenging an 80 year old man) rather than directing him to the toilet. Now the poor bloke has to deal with even more inconviniencies and missed his flight bound for Singapore. Would be funny if he pissed all over the wannabe Karate Kid.

Falcon84 · Wed May 24, 2006 1:00 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 2):

So, on the off chance he was only wanting to take a pee, you let him waltz up to the cockpit, Manni? Uh, I don't think so. And who's to say, at that point that he DOES understand English, and is just putting on a con?

When dealing with an airliner in the post-9/11 world, Manni, safety comes first and foremost, and if there's even the SLIGHTEST doubt someone might be a threat, you stop the threat, and not assume innocence, as you did.

Sorry, but you're off the mark on this one. As usual.

twolz2rn · Wed May 24, 2006 1:01 am

hmm...at least other passengers helped

[Edited 2006-05-23 18:02:45]

ltbewr · Wed May 24, 2006 2:27 am

It's too bad there isn't a senility check of elderly pax. old

I have seen older pax with serious mobility and mental health issues on flights and it is a sad situation. Probably a test would cut down the pax loads in/out of Florida in the winter and save a lot of hassles on some elder heavy flights for the f/a's.

MEA-707 · Wed May 24, 2006 2:33 am

My uncle is 80 and champion senior wrestling. I am 35 and a foot taller then him but I would definitely do anything to avoid getting in a fight with him.

boeingfever777 · Wed May 24, 2006 2:41 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Thread starter):
A plastic surgeon who also has a black belt in karate helped restrain the surprisingly agile old man until the plane landed.

Yeah it's was Dr. 90210, "Dr. Robert Rey" a Beverly Hills plastic surgeon. Good job doc! I believe the flight was AA813 AUS-LAX n/s.

http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4936237&nav=1TjD

MaxQ2351 · Wed May 24, 2006 2:42 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 2):
What might have happened, All he wants is to go for a pee, get's up, sees a door, which he thinks is the toilet, it appears to be the cockpit.

Quoting PanAm747 (Thread starter):
went into first class and shoved a flight attendant, and appeared to be headed for the cockpit.

I don't care if you are from the planet K-PAX, you still know that you don't shove flight attendants, no matter what the reason!! Doing that just begs the exact response he got.

Quoting Symphonik (Reply 1):
Quoting PanAm747 (Thread starter):A plastic surgeon who also has a black belt in karate helped restrain the surprisingly agile old man until the plane landed.
I'm pretty sure that's the first... and last...time I will ever hear that phrase.

I was thinking the exact same thing!!

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 5):
It's too bad there isn't a senility check of elderly pax.

And how do you propose the airlines (or TSA) do this?!?!? PA:
"Ladies and gentleman, after you check in, please proceed to our mental health screening center before you pass through security." Talk about 15 seconds of shame if you're caught walking in there!!

-Max

Fly2HMO · Wed May 24, 2006 2:43 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 2):
What might have happened, All he wants is to go for a pee, get's up, sees a door, which he thinks is the toilet, it appears to be the cockpit

Makes sense to me, but we weren't there so we'll never know.

Also, I find it interesting how they detained him for psychiatric observation.

aa61hvy · Wed May 24, 2006 2:48 am

Viagra DOES work wonders....

BR715-A1-30 · Wed May 24, 2006 2:58 am

So whose bright idea was it to put a lavatory RIGHT NEXT to the cockpit?

Confuscius · Wed May 24, 2006 3:34 am

So whose bright idea was it to put a lavatory RIGHT NEXT to the cockpit?

Good question.

Perhaps there's intelligence that al-qaeda is recruiting 80 year old incontinent men. The NSA might be monitoring urologists.

[Edited 2006-05-23 20:37:53]

NWOrientDC10 · Wed May 24, 2006 3:50 am

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 6):
My uncle is 80 and champion senior wrestling. I am 35 and a foot taller then him but I would definitely do anything to avoid getting in a fight with him.

He sounds like a true "tough guy"; the last of his kind. Smile

Russell

Gr8Circle · Wed May 24, 2006 4:05 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 2):
Result? Someone feels the need to play hero in search of his one minute of fame, and grabs the poor bastard (what a hero, challenging an 80 year old man) rather than directing him to the toilet. Now the poor bloke has to deal with even more inconviniencies and missed his flight bound for Singapore. Would be funny if he pissed all over the wannabe Karate Kid.

First of all, none of us were on that flight...so we don't know exactly what happened.....

Secondly, how was anyone to know that he was 80 years old??

Third, how was anyone to know his exact intentions if he went forward towards the cockpit door, pushing people aside?

I think the Karate doc did the right thing....it's the post 9/11 world my friend...wake up to reality.....

Any yes.....unfortunately, the diabolical minds that do these things are capable of anything...including brainwashing women, children and old men / women into believing that their faith is in danger!!!

highpeaklad · Wed May 24, 2006 5:05 am

Surely post 911 with the cockpit doors now impregnable to the likes of al qaeda they would be able to stop an 80 year old getting in!

Chris

prebennorholm · Wed May 24, 2006 6:55 am

Who are the really sorry fellas here?

They are the 99% of us who post 9/11 who now become hysteric whenever a slightly unusual event happens.

We are all victims of 9/11.

Gr8Circle · Wed May 24, 2006 7:16 am

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 16):
We are all victims of 9/11.

Unfortunately.....better to be safe than sorry.....ask the families of those who were in those four planes that day....

manni · Wed May 24, 2006 7:33 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 3):
When dealing with an airliner in the post-9/11

Ha 9/11, I should have known that this would be brought up as an excuse to act like a coward. Beating up elderly passengers will not stop terrorists. Directing a passenger to the loo will not bring fame. Pretending that you just stopped a huge threat to the life of all passengers onboard will bring you fame, atleast for a day.

Tell me, when was the last time an elder passenger brought down an airliner? Shall the US from now on pay extra attentention to elder passengers and tourists too, as they appear to do with passengers and tourists of Arab origin. And what about that todler in first that runs around direction.... cockpitdoor? eek

kangarooman · Wed May 24, 2006 8:04 am

Quoting MaxQ2351 (Reply 8):
And how do you propose the airlines (or TSA) do this?!?!? PA:
"Ladies and gentleman, after you check in, please proceed to our mental health screening center before you pass through security." Talk about 15 seconds of shame if you're caught walking in there!!

I can just imagine it now me asking elderly pax "any keys and mobiles in you pockets and your jackets off and your none senality passes please" crazy

but it would never catch on in england worried

Roo

afay1 · Wed May 24, 2006 11:20 am

While I agree that one should respect one's elders as a matter of course, as someone else said, shoving officials on an airplane is not acceptable behaviour in any culture that I am aware of. Whether or not he was in control of his faculties is beside the point. For example, I am a lifeguard, and we are trained to not go anywhere near drowning people, including small children, as they are easily strong enough to drown the person trying to rescue them. One simply offers a resuce tube, if they take it fine, if they don't it isn't worth me drowing too. While I personally might try and save somebody, the fact remains that it is impossible to judge someone's strength by size, age, or outward appearance...

tbear815 · Wed May 24, 2006 11:33 am

My grammar school French teacher did the same thing on a PA 747 before even leaving the gate at SFO. It was her first trip back to France in 25 years. The dear lady was having a massive stroke and never made it off that airplane alive. The excitement of "going home" was just too much for her.

You just can't tell sometimes with the elderly. All anyone can say is that you yourself will be there one day. How will people treat you in times of crisis?

ac345yyz · Wed May 24, 2006 11:55 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 18):
Ha 9/11, I should have known that this would be brought up as an excuse to act like a coward.

Listen Manni, You've taken this too far. Saying that the man who took down the elderly passenger is a coward is wrong. What if the man had been on his way to the cockpit, and was attempting to do something to the plane? You really dont know. So please shut your trap about cowards and keep the anti-american comments off this forum....this is an aviation website.

AC345YYZ

Scrappy74 · Wed May 24, 2006 12:00 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 18):
Beating up elderly passengers will not stop terrorists.

If this idiot really shoved the F/A I probably would have grabbed him too. Correct me if I'm wrong (insert sarcasm here) but interfering with flight crew in any manner is illegal. Even a toddler knows the universal "gotta go" signal, no need for pushing if that was why the geezer got up.

As for those ready to tackle a confused 80 year old, it's a bit of overkill. The cockpit doors are reinforced for a reason.

manni · Wed May 24, 2006 2:30 pm

Quoting AC345YYZ (Reply 22):
Listen Manni, You've taken this too far. Saying that the man who took down the elderly passenger is a coward is wrong. What if the man had been on his way to the cockpit, and was attempting to do something to the plane?

The man who took down the granddad is an attention whore, used excessive force when not needed. Common sense tells me that granddad would not have been able to open the cockpit door. As for harrasing the flightattendant, "he ignored the request of the flightattendant to return to his seat", wouldn't sell as well as "he shoved the flightattendant".

Quoting AC345YYZ (Reply 22):
You really dont know.

Neither do you. All we know is that he had the sudden urge to get up, in search for a door. I'd say, he's on his way to the toilet, but if you want paranoia lead your life... well then he was on his way to hijack the aircraft. Yeah sure

Quoting AC345YYZ (Reply 22):
So please shut your trap about cowards and keep the anti-american comments off this forum

Ah, I see you want to play the victim here. It's all about anti-americanism once again. Yeah sure

Shut your trap and please should not be used in the same sentence. Nor should anti-americanism be called in at the same moment to tell people to shut up. Afterall isn't that were America stands for... FREE SPEECH. Who's making anti- american comments here? Yeah sure

superhub · Wed May 24, 2006 4:16 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 18):
Tell me, when was the last time an elder passenger brought down an airliner?

Nobody. But people who took part in terror attacks have come in all ages, whether male or female. And in an age where ethnic/age profiling is prevalent in security screening in the US and in the UK, terror groups are likely to work around it.

Quoting AC345YYZ (Reply 22):
What if the man had been on his way to the cockpit, and was attempting to do something to the plane?

Unfortunately, if that man did reach the cockpit...then we have to ask some serious questions. For example, why was the door unlocked? I personally believe the man would not have entered the cockpit at all.

And where was the Federal Air Marshal on this flight? No mention of him/her/them. Are FAMs meant to be on every flight, or just a selection?

Quoting AC345YYZ (Reply 22):
keep the anti-american comments off this forum....this is an aviation website.

Frankly, I don't see anything anti-american here. There are going to be views which you won't agree on. But that's life.

hz747300 · Wed May 24, 2006 4:23 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 2):
english

Wasn't there a crazy man who almost brought down a BA 744 from LHR to Kenya? On that flight, said crazy bloke would have to have made his way upstairs too.

Do we really know for sure he lost his way to the bathroom? I'm not saying his motives were sinister, he was probably wanting to take a look at what the big guys in the front of the plane were doing like he could in the old days.

superhub · Wed May 24, 2006 4:33 pm

Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 27):
Wasn't there a crazy man who almost brought down a BA 744 from LHR to Kenya? On that flight, said crazy bloke would have to have made his way upstairs too.

Yes there was. However, it happened well before 9/11 when cockpit doors were not locked nor armoured. Nowadays, cockpit intrusion should not happen.

wukka · Wed May 24, 2006 4:48 pm

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 17):
Unfortunately.....better to be safe than sorry.....

Unfortunately, I completely disagree.

Fuck being scared of every little thing that happens.

9/11 took away our ability to look at at a sunny sky without freaking about a brown guy pushing a hot-dog cart.

Those terrorist bastards won by making us a bunch of crybabies.

SonOfACaptain · Wed May 24, 2006 5:04 pm

Just a few things I want to mention.

"When you get a black belt, at that stage your brain just clicks into action," the doctor said. "I restrained this gentleman in a very aggressive way without hurting him."

-Is it just me, or does that line make that guy sound like an ass?

-Also, keep in mind that this story is told from ONE man's perspective.

We really can't tell the extent of this "push" this man did, because Dr. Rey only "heard" a "big noise."

-Another thing, do we really know if he attempted to enter the flight deck? Nowhere in that article did it mention that he attempted to open the cockpit door. It only says as "he pushed a female flight attendant toward the cockpit." Doesn't say he tried to force it open. And like I said before, we don't know the extend of this "push".

-I like how this Dr. is speaking on behalf of the F/A. "The flight attendant "was shook up but not hurt," Rey said."

My final thoughts: I am not sure what exactly happened on this flight, nor do any of you guys. This article does not tell the complete story because it was based on ONE man's OPINIONS, and that is not enough for me to judge this elderly man. For all we know, he could have simply wanted to use the lavatory, and when the F/A stood up to go sit down, the man (who couldn't understand her) tried to walk by her. The F/A could have perceived this as a threat to the flight, so she tried to physically stop him, and the man naturally pushed her aside.

I don't know, and neither do you.

-SOAC

SonOfACaptain · Wed May 24, 2006 5:05 pm

Quoting Wukka (Reply 29):
Those terrorist bastards won by making us a bunch of crybabies.

And they know that too.

-SOAC

darrenthe747 · Wed May 24, 2006 5:15 pm

ok this is being way too overanalyzed. that story is so vague. it leaves out too many important specifics so we can't say what the doctor did was good or bad becasue we just don't know. i just love how manni speaks to us all like he was there. sorry, but we don't know. you make it sound like he calmly got up from his seat, walked around the cabin innocent as can be looking for the lavs. he politely asked the FA where the lavs are and then out of nowhere some doctor came over and took him out and restrained him and everyone on the airplane thought he was a hero. comon dude, use at least SOME iota of brain or common sense. this has absolutely nothing to do with pre/post 9/11. if in fact the dude was acting like an idiot, and they didn't have the option to kick him off, what the hell do you want people to do? Jesus, everybody is always looking for a reason to bring terrorism or paranoid america into every little situation. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. the only thing that seems to be different about the world today is that people have no goddamn common sense.

iairallie · Wed May 24, 2006 5:19 pm

Quoting Superhub (Reply 26):
And where was the Federal Air Marshal on this flight? No mention of him/her/them. Are FAMs meant to be on every flight, or just a selection?

Since it is public knowlege already. FAMs are on random flights not all flights. So you have any idea what sort of manpower would be necessary if you had a pair of FAMs on every flight. Just not possible.

SonOfACaptain · Wed May 24, 2006 5:26 pm

Quoting Darrenthe747 (Reply 32):
you make it sound like he calmly got up from his seat, walked around the cabin innocent as can be looking for the lavs. he politely asked the FA where the lavs are and then out of nowhere some doctor came over and took him out and restrained him and everyone on the airplane thought he was a hero.

To be fair to Manni, others are talking as if he went into F/C at full force trying desperately to gain access to the cockpit, and a man saved the day.

But you are right, we don't know the story here.

Quoting Darrenthe747 (Reply 32):
he calmly got up from his seat, walked around the cabin innocent as can be looking for the lavs. he politely asked the FA where the lavs are and then out of nowhere some doctor came over and took him out and restrained him and everyone on the airplane thought he was a hero.

Now wouldn't that be the funniest video? wink

-SOAC

ikramerica · Wed May 24, 2006 5:45 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 2):
Someone feels the need to play hero in search of his one minute of fame

Quoting AC345YYZ (Reply 22):
Saying that the man who took down the elderly passenger is a coward is wrong.

Quoting Manni (Reply 24):
The man who took down the granddad is an attention whore, used excessive force when not needed.

First, he's already famous.

Second, he administered first aid to the man afterward, and monitored his vital signs for symptoms of stroke, heart attack, etc. He performed his duty as a citizen and as a doctor the whole way.

For Manni to take a knee jerk reaction and call him a coward is really lame.

drinkstrolley · Wed May 24, 2006 6:13 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 2):
who doesn't understand english.

He could be bluffing. I did that years ago when I was stopped by a policeman for being drunk and disorderly!!! "No speka eeeeengleeesh". Got fined 50 quid!

wukka · Wed May 24, 2006 6:33 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 35):
Second, he administered first aid to the man afterward, and monitored his vital signs for symptoms of stroke, heart attack, etc. He performed his duty as a citizen and as a doctor the whole way.

His duty as a citizen and a doctor might have been to sit there and shut the hell up.

Then he might not have had to monitor grandpa's vitals.

Unless you were there, you can't speak with the certainty that you are.

Keep the perspective.

If some of you people are so scared of flying, and the other "assholes" that fly cause you so much grief, why do you waste so much time on an airplane site?

BAtriple7 · Wed May 24, 2006 6:34 pm

Quoting Symphonik (Reply 1):
Quoting PanAm747 (Thread starter):
A plastic surgeon who also has a black belt in karate helped restrain the surprisingly agile old man until the plane landed.

Quoting Symphonik (Reply 1):
I'm pretty sure that's the first... and last...time I will ever hear that phrase.

LOL!

Sounds like a sure-fire way to ensure you get enogh patients!

Gotta buy me a new Porsche - hey you, le me give you a chop!
bigthumbsup

dutchjet · Wed May 24, 2006 6:53 pm

Its May, its ratings weeks in the US, the television stations need drama......

I can hear the tv announcer:

"Terror in the skies, a 737 with 1000 passengers flying from London to Los Angeles (you know how well the media knows it airplane facts) loaded with fuel was almost hi-jacked by a mob a senior citizens led by a man who did not speak english, some say he was jibbering in arabic slang, complaining that there were not enough lavs on the aircraft. All hell broke lose on the aircraft....thankfully, Dr. 90210 was on board and is a black belt in karate. Not only did he restrain the man leading the irate group of seniors, and then monitor his medical condition, he gave the old guy a face lift and nose job before the aircraft landed. The crew was relieved to have Dr. 90210 on board, a real life super hero, but the F/As were a bit upset that they did not get complimentary face lifts as well. Back to you, Jane, what the weather forecast for the LA area?"

To be serious, when the old man attacked the F/A, it was time to restrain him.....so simple is it. The pax was not restrained because he wandered into the F class cabin or was looking for the lav.......he was restrained because he shoved a F/A and provoked an incident.

My goodness, everyone calm down, this incident has nothing to do with US policies, 9/11, politics, or the like.........shoving or attacking a F/A is not acceptable behavior in the US, Europe, Korea, or anywhere else.....and if a pax does such things, he or she, young or old, will be dealt with.

tjc2 · Wed May 24, 2006 7:31 pm

Quoting Drinkstrolley (Reply 36):
He could be bluffing. I did that years ago when I was stopped by a policeman for being drunk and disorderly!!! "No speka eeeeengleeesh". Got fined 50 quid!

ROFL! Nice one matey!

As soon as I read the original post i knew that it wasn't going to be long before all the anti-american & pre/post 911 was going to come into it.

Anti-american issues are irrelevant but the 911 is on the point. But mind you if you were a terrorist, would you pick an ~80 year old man to try and gain access to the cockpit?

Seems like half of the article is about this karate doctor...

darrenthe747 · Wed May 24, 2006 8:58 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 38):
My goodness, everyone calm down, this incident has nothing to do with US policies, 9/11, politics, or the like.........shoving or attacking a F/A is not acceptable behavior in the US, Europe, Korea, or anywhere else.....and if a pax does such things, he or she, young or old, will be dealt with.

Amen

rolfen · Thu May 25, 2006 12:20 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 18):
Ha 9/11, I should have known that this would be brought up as an excuse to act like a coward. Beating up elderly passengers will not stop terrorists. Directing a passenger to the loo will not bring fame. Pretending that you just stopped a huge threat to the life of all passengers onboard will bring you fame, atleast for a day.

What the hell is wrong with you? This guy has no business shoving flight attendants and going towards the cockpit.
Next time he'll learn to ask for the toilets, just point to your crotch and say "psssss" if you dont speak english, that should do it.

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