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NAV20
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Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 1:02 am

Excellent wide-ranging article by Geoff Thomas, with lots of hard news and some surprises:-

"BOEING'S newest version of its 747 is turning heads at Qantas as the airline searches for solutions to reduce fuel costs while increasing the range capability of its fleet.

"According to Qantas sources, the 777 has been dropped from consideration.

"Also on the airline's radar is Sydney-Dallas non-stop capability to link into alliance partner American Airlines' headquarters and largest hub.

"Last week, Boeing advised Qantas that the latest wind-tunnel tests for its new 747-8 Intercontinental have shown that the aircraft would have greater range than originally thought and would be capable of flying Dallas-Sydney all year.

"For Qantas, which is facing soaring fuel costs, the 747-8 would appear to be a good solution, offering more range capability while cutting fuel costs.

"While the A380, which will start operations for Qantas in May next year, will replace some 747s, Qantas is not planning to replace its older 747-300s and -400s with A380s.

"Boeing is promising a dramatic performance improvement with the 747-8 over earlier 747 models.

"According to Jeff Peace, vice-president and program manager for 747, the "747-8 burns 40 per cent less fuel than the first 747 and is 30 per cent quieter than the 747-400s in service with Qantas".


http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...ory/0,20867,19256889-23349,00.html
 
AA777
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 1:03 am

Damn. If this is true, I am very disappointed. I'd love to have seen a 777LR in QF colors. It would have been a very good plane for them.... however, I wouldnt be upset to see a 747-8 in their livery either...  Wink I will believe it though when I see the orders.

-AA777
 
krisyyz
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 1:05 am

wow, so no B777s or A346E or HGW for Qantas rather the possibility of B748i operating beside A380s?

KrisYYZ
 
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B742
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 1:07 am

A shame not to see any 772LR's in the QF fleet  Sad

Does this mean no 777's or A340's at all for QF?

I hope QF order the 748, It will be nice to see the 748 and A380 together in one fleet  Smile

Rob!  wave 
 
NAV20
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 1:08 am

Australia was always the 'limiting case' for the 772LR, AA777. It's just a helluva long way from anywhere. Or rather, as I prefer to put it, the rest of you are a helluva long way from us!  Smile

Qantas must have to fly longer ranges more often than any other airline.
 
WINGS
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 1:11 am

Interesting report Nav20, Thanks for sharing.

What caught my eye was this statement. Why is Boeing comparing 416 seats vs 542?

He claims the 747-8 "will burn 13 per cent less fuel per seat than a 416-seat 747-400 and 12 per cent less than a 542-seat A380" - figures that Airbus strongly disputes.

Regards,
Wings
 
NAV20
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 1:13 am

Wings, both percentages are 'per seat', I think?
 
boeingbus
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 1:21 am

So will we see an official launch customer at Farnbourough, England?

I hope so!
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 1:25 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 6):
Wings, both percentages are 'per seat', I think?

Yeah but he's saying that they're saying 542 seats for A380 when it's been announced QF and SQ will have 480-500, and 747s in service usually have between 380-400 seats.

It's all numbers and I couldn't care less about the semantics of debating such a thing.

I find it a shame that the 777 is not a fit for QF, though it's not surprising if the plane had to stop for 6 months of the year in Singapore. It doesn't really give an ability for QF to market a non-stop service to London.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 747-300s and a good portion of the 400s were replaced with the 748. The oldest 400 is now around 17 years old, which means a QF order for the 748 may come this year for delivery in 2009 (which is the scheduled EIS date for the 748 from memory).

Interesting news indeed - good times!
 
NAV20
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 1:26 am

Boeing play this trick so often - 'under-promise,' so Airbus feel all warm and safe and cosy at first - then BANG!, say they can 'over-deliver.'

I'm now convinced, personally, that they do it on purpose.
 
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Flying Belgian
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 1:30 am

Sounds like crazy that QF would fly both the A380 and the 748...

Let's wait official communications.


FB.
 
brendows
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 1:33 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 8):
The oldest 400 is now around 17 years old, which means a QF order for the 748 may come this year for delivery in 2009 (which is the scheduled EIS date for the 748 from memory).

The 748F EIS is 2009, EIS for the 748i is the first half of 2010.
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 1:41 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 9):
Boeing play this trick so often - 'under-promise,' so Airbus feel all warm and safe and cosy at first - then BANG!, say they can 'over-deliver.'

I'm now convinced, personally, that they do it on purpose.

I have to agree with you on that. It's sound business sense to do this. Now that you've said that, karma will hit and the wheels will fall off on the next new model  Smile

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 10):
Sounds like crazy that QF would fly both the A380 and the 748...

Why would that be crazy? The A380 can't fly SYD-DFW-SYD non-stop. The 748 apparently can. This fits in with QF planning to fly the route so that passengers can connect with AA in DFW.

It makes a hell of a lot of sense. Next time I am going to BZE, it'll be a one stop flight from SYD rather than two.

A lot of people question QFs wisdom when they live in Europe or the USA. When you have to fly over 12 hours to just get to LAX or 24 hours to get to Europe, any extra saving regarding number of stops is a godsend, believe me.

Quoting Brendows (Reply 11):
The 748F EIS is 2009, EIS for the 748i is the first half of 2010.

Thanks for the correction!  Smile
 
WINGS
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dall

Fri May 26, 2006 1:41 am

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 7):
So will we see an official launch customer at Farnbourough, England?

Well it may be in Qantas best interest to see how the A380 delivers. Their is plenty of time before the B748i enter commercial service. By that time it may be possible that Airbus may launch the A388R. It may also be possible that Airbus may further enhance the A380 with next generation engines being prepared for the A350.

Regards,
Wings
 
WINGS
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 1:45 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 12):
Why would that be crazy? The A380 can't fly SYD-DFW-SYD non-stop. The 748 apparently can. This fits in with QF planning to fly the route so that passengers can connect with AA in DFW.

How about a possible A388R with aditional range? Why risk having two different types of planes in your fleet. At least the A380 has a choice when it come to engine selection while the B748i is only limited to one.

Regards,
Wings
 
krisyyz
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 1:46 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 13):
Airbus may further enhance the A380 with next generation engines being prepared for the A350.

you mean the GEnx, which are the same engines as on the B748i?
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 1:47 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 13):
By that time it may be possible that Airbus may launch the A388R. It may also be possible that Airbus may further enhance the A380 with next generation engines being prepared for the A350.

It may be possible that I sprout wings and start charging people to ride my back SYD-LHR. May means nothing, and possibilities are endless.

QF and the 747 go back to 1971 and if it promises all that extra range, you will see QF ordering the plane. As the article states, "Qantas is not planning to replace its older 747-300s and -400s with A380s."

Considering that they use that capacity, what other options are there at the present time?
 
dutchjet
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 1:48 am

Thanks for the link to the article..........its certainly one of the most positive reviews that I have read concerning the 748 project; the numbers do sound very good and QF and other 744 operators (including those that have already commited to the A380) are certainly going to take a long hard look at this airplane.

Shame about the 772LR......but as long as that airplane could not do LHR-SYD nonstop roundtrip yearround with a reasonable payload, QF had little reason to order it. But, if the 748i can do the long discussed DFW-SYD route, this airplane could make a lot of sense for QF and there is a case to be made to support side-by-side 748/A380 operations.

After all is said and done, wouldnt it be just amazing if Boeing got this right after all?
 
jacobin777
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 1:48 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 13):
Well it may be in Qantas best interest to see how the A380 delivers. Their is plenty of time before the B748i enter commercial service. By that time it may be possible that Airbus may launch the A388R. It may also be possible that Airbus may further enhance the A380 with next generation engines being prepared for the A350.

I agree, I've been saying for a while that the A380 with new engines will have a very good CASM....

however, there are 3 caveats IHMO...

1)will the A380 be able to fulfil the need for a smaller aircraft such as the 747-8?
2) are the engine manufacturers willing to accept the fact the billions they have spent on the A380 engines might have have potentially gone to "waste" and are now considered "older-generation" engines?
3)can the engine manufacturers develop an engine quick enough with the higher thrust and lower SFC?
 
WINGS
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 1:51 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 16):

QF and the 747 go back to 1971 and if it promises all that extra range, you will see QF ordering the plane. As the article states, "Qantas is not planning to replace its older 747-300s and -400s with A380s."

Has the B777-300ER or A340-600 actually been ruled out yet? No it hasn't. Only the B777-200LR is being ruled out.

Regards,
Wings
 
Ken777
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 1:55 am

I like the idea of the SYD-DFW flights, but the most interesting route is a non-stop PER-LHR. Would this be a cheaper stop than SIN for QF? It does allow filling empty seats with PER pax, as well as adding some domestic capacity - QF is already very good at generating domestic revenues to PER using 744s.

Impressive story - it looks like the grand old lady ain't ready for retirement yet.
 
777STL
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 1:57 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 19):
Has the B777-300ER or A340-600 actually been ruled out yet? No it hasn't. Only the B777-200LR is being ruled out.

Regards,
Wings

In the context of SYD-DFW, they both have been ruled out. Neither has the economics or the range for such a flight.
 
UAL747
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 2:02 am

Well, sadly, they only were interested in the -LR for the LHR ops non-stop. I guess it doesn't make much sense for them to order a whole new fleet type for just one route that they can't even fly year round non-stop. Although, it would have made the perfect plane for SYD-DFW and it would have opened up every other major European city non-stop from SYD. I think the 748i will be over-kill for DFW, then again, it IS AA's biggest hub with connections to a vast amount of cities across the mid-west, east coast, and north east, even Canada.

UAL
 
EI321
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 2:04 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 8):
Yeah but he's saying that they're saying 542 seats for A380 when it's been announced QF and SQ will have 480-500, and 747s in service usually have between 380-400 seats

Qantas' jumbos are configured as following:
743 - 422/450 seats
744 - 382 - 3 class
744 - 412 - 2 class

Looks like QS are going to have comfy A380s

[Edited 2006-05-25 19:05:58]
 
WINGS
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 2:09 am

Quoting 777STL (Reply 21):
In the context of SYD-DFW, they both have been ruled out. Neither has the economics or the range for such a flight.

That part of the article was referring to the replacement of the older B744 and B743. For that role the B773 or A346 would be ideal.

While the A380, which will start operations for Qantas in May next year, will replace some 747s, Qantas is not planning to replace its older 747-300s and -400s with A380s.

Regards,
Wings
 
widebodyphotog
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 2:11 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 9):
I'm now convinced, personally, that they do it on purpose.

Yes a lot of folks have concluded the same. Boeing did as much with 777-300ER and now have increased the performance envelope again for that plane, albeit not to the same degree as the 270nm increase for 747-8...

They have this "sandbagging" down to an art.



-widebodyphotog
 
NAV20
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 2:13 am

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 22):
I think the 748i will be over-kill for DFW

UAL777, Qantas currently hand over almost all their US-bound passengers to American at LAX - even those bound for the Mid-West or the East Coast (which I would guess is more than half of them). If they can carry those passengers on to DFW and transfer them there, they'll get more of the seat-miles and AA will get less.
 
UAL747
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 2:16 am

Quoting Widebodyphotog (Reply 25):
They have this "sandbagging" down to an art.

Yep, I think so as well. Consistently they have raised the performance on all their 777 models, besides the initial 772/3A. The ER model was raised, the -300ER was raised, and the -LR was raised. Keeping Airbus on their toes, or making them fall to their knees one way or another.

UAL
 
dutchjet
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 2:17 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 24):

That part of the article was referring to the replacement of the older B744 and B743. For that role the B773 or A346 would be ideal.

While the A380, which will start operations for Qantas in May next year, will replace some 747s, Qantas is not planning to replace its older 747-300s and -400s with A380s.

Regards,
Wings

QF will replace some, but not all, of its 747 fleet with A380s. QF need not wait and see exactly how the A380 performs.....the 748 would serve a different mission at QF; that being longer range flights and segments that cannot absorb the exact capacity offered by the A380.

The A380 will not fly the new proposed DFW-SYD route, its too big for the new route and the A380 does not have the range. And, its unlikely that QF is going to wait around for Airbus to launch another variant of the type.

The 748i is an interesting airplane for QF due to its longer range (SYD-DFW, MEL-SFO, maybe just enough range for SYD-ORD), moderate increase in seats over a 743/744, etc. And, the numbers in the article are very attractive.

I will say one thing: if the 748 performance numbers come out better than the A380s........its not gonna be pretty in Tolouse, Sydney, Singapore, Cologne or Dubai....
 
BoomBoom
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 2:45 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 26):
If they can carry those passengers on to DFW and transfer them there, they'll get more of the seat-miles and AA will get less.

That assumes they can get a decent amount of revenue for those extra miles.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 2:55 am

Can the A-380 do Sydney-Dallas year round non-stop?? If so, it seems logical to me they would use that aircraft.
 
Zeus419
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 2:56 am

FWIW, I really don't think that either GE/PW Alliance or Rolls-Royce are going to exclude their respective GEnx and Trent 1000 technologies from future powerplant upgrades to A380.

There is no hurry right now, as the A380 is going into service this year, whereas the GEnx won't go into service for quite some time. By then, 'transplanting' hot-section engine technology for use on the A380's engines can be taken for granted.

Anyway, just look at how many versions, and powerplant improvements the B747 went through in the early 1970s, and then again in the 1980s. And now yet again.

In addition, I'm sure Airbus -- as we speak -- is also earmarking improved stuctural & aerodynamic efficiencies to be incorporated into later versions of the aircraft.

[Edited 2006-05-25 19:57:20]
 
cxb744
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 3:01 am

"The 747-8 has raked wingtips borrowed from the 777-300ER/-200LR program and now sports double-slotted inboard flaps and single-slotted outboard flaps."

Noooooooooooooooo, the tri-slotted flap is gone!!!!!!!!!!  Sad

Anyway, hopefully the White Kangaroo will hopping into see Mr. Boeing at Farnborough.
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 3:01 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 20):
I like the idea of the SYD-DFW flights, but the most interesting route is a non-stop PER-LHR. Would this be a cheaper stop than SIN for QF? It does allow filling empty seats with PER pax, as well as adding some domestic capacity - QF is already very good at generating domestic revenues to PER using 744s.

QF have a hub in Singapore. Any pax going to Paris connect in Singapore with Air France. QF is actually the second largest airline in Singapore apart from SQ. Perth doesn't make sense to use instead of Singapore due to the lack of connections in comparison with Singapore.

I thought as you did once and was told in detail why it wasn't done this way at the moment  Smile

Quoting WINGS (Reply 24):
That part of the article was referring to the replacement of the older B744 and B743. For that role the B773 or A346 would be ideal.

Both of those would be entirely new fleet types and are not under consideration. If they were "ideal" they would be considered for QF. They're obviously not.

(while it could be argued that the 748 is also a new type, it's a derivative and will share a lot of commonality with the current 744). Qantas' success has been built by the 747, it has a lot of affection within the airline and among Australians in general.
 
fraspotter
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 3:07 am

Quoting NAV20 (Thread starter):
"Also on the airline's radar is Sydney-Dallas non-stop capability to link into alliance partner American Airlines' headquarters and largest hub.

It would be nice to finally see passenger 747s at DFW again instead of all those damn MD80s... I sure hope that QF follows through and orders the 748. That would make my day....
 
ikramerica
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 3:12 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 5):
What caught my eye was this statement. Why is Boeing comparing 416 seats vs 542?

Was discussed before. it has to do with premium ratios. 542 comes from a premium ratio adjustment on the 555 A number to put it in line with the B config.

None of these numbers are real anyway.
 
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BlueSky1976
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 3:13 am

Quoting AA777 (Reply 1):
Damn. If this is true, I am very disappointed. I'd love to have seen a 777LR in QF colors. It would have been a very good plane for them....

QF said repeatedly that 777LR purchase was dependent on a single factor: ability to do SYD-LHR year-round with profitable payload - something 772LR, won't deliver, but it's successor will... and it won't be 787 either  Smile

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 9):
Boeing play this trick so often - 'under-promise,' so Airbus feel all warm and safe and cosy at first - then BANG!, say they can 'over-deliver.'

300nm after the wind-tunnel tests. I wonder how much additional range would they squeeze out once the plane is flying. Anyone willing to bet that it could be close to 9,000nm?

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 17):
Shame about the 772LR......but as long as that airplane could not do LHR-SYD nonstop roundtrip yearround with a reasonable payload, QF had little reason to order it.

I said it before and I'll say it again: the first true all year-round SYD-LHR 300 seater will be extended range version of what is known now as Yellowstone-3 project. The minute this plane is flying will be the minute Kangaroo Route as we know it today dies. I'm willing to bet a case of Johnny Walker on it Big grin
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 3:17 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 30):
Can the A-380 do Sydney-Dallas year round non-stop?? If so, it seems logical to me they would use that aircraft.

In a word, no.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 36):
300nm after the wind-tunnel tests. I wonder how much additional range would they squeeze out once the plane is flying. Anyone willing to bet that it could be close to 9,000nm?

It could possibly be. Once the airlines are flying an aircraft, they work out various procedures to eke out the range even further, or better fuel efficiency etc. It will be interesting to see how it's performing a few years in.
 
anstar
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 3:22 am

Quoting NAV20 (Thread starter):
"While the A380, which will start operations for Qantas in May next year, will replace some 747s, Qantas is not planning to replace its older 747-300s and -400s with A380s.

Exactly right. The older 747-300's & 400's will be replaced by the not so old 747-400's the A380's will be replacing!

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 28):
I will say one thing: if the 748 performance numbers come out better than the A380s........its not gonna be pretty in Tolouse, Sydney, Singapore, Cologne or Dubai....

Before we speculate - lets wait till someone buys a pax version of these birds!
 
airbazar
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 3:23 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 19):
Has the B777-300ER or A340-600 actually been ruled out yet? No it hasn't. Only the B777-200LR is being ruled out.

The article explicitly rules out all 777's
"According to Qantas sources, the 777 has been dropped from consideration."
We'd have to assume likewise for the A346, at least for the time being  Smile
 
widebodyphotog
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 3:39 am

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 36):
I said it before and I'll say it again: the first true all year-round SYD-LHR 300 seater will be extended range version of what is known now as Yellowstone-3 project. The minute this plane is flying will be the minute Kangaroo Route as we know it today dies. I'm willing to bet a case of Johnny Walker on i

I'll take you up on that bet as I have it on pretty good authority that the Y3 family will begin with an airframe in the 350-375 seat segment with 8,500nm+ range...

For something with a nominal 10,000nm+ range for SYD-LHR at 300 seats...there are some possibilites being floated around that are within the current model architecture. However probably nothing that can EIS before 2010...We will just have to wait and see...



-widebodyphotog
 
Zeus419
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 4:20 am

I think this confirms what we knew for a while -- i.e. Qantas doesn't like the idea of using a twin-engined plane on ULR routes over vast global expanses of nothingness.

Now Qantas has wholeheartedly rejected the B777-200LR (for the third time), and is apparently considering a derivative of 35-year old quad-jet instead. Yet, according to some, B747-8 is arguably too big for a Sydney-Dallas operation.

[Edited 2006-05-25 21:27:48]
 
dutchjet
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Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 4:32 am

Quoting Zeus419 (Reply 41):
I think this confirms what we knew for a while -- i.e. Qantas doesn't like the idea of using a twin-engined plane on ULR routes over vast global expanses of nothingness.

Now Qantas has wholeheatedly rejected the B777-200LR (for the third time), and is instead apparently considering a derivative of 35-year old quad-jet instead. Yet, according to some, B747-8 is arguably too big for a Sydney-Dallas operation.

I really dont think that its a twin vs quad thing........its which aircraft makes sense for Qantas. The 772LR was all about the LHR-SYD route, and as long as the 772ER cant do that route to Qantas' specs, it really has no other specific need to order that aircraft. The 748i could be another story - not only could it replace the portion of the 743/744 fleet that will not be replaced by the A380, the 748i, with its increased range, can allow QF to open up new routes, including the long discussed SYD-DFW segment.

Is the 748i too big for SYD-DFW, probably not, when you consider that traffic between the US and Australia is growing and when you consider the enormous amount of connection possibilities at DFW via OneWorld Partner AA. One-stop service between "Anywhere, USA" and Australia will become a reality when the Dallas flight is launched, thats the idea anyway.

The 748i may be a derivative of a 35 year old quad jet (as you so ungraciously put it)......but the numbers in the article sure do look good.
 
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N328KF
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 4:36 am

Quoting Zeus419 (Reply 41):
I think this confirms what we knew for a while -- i.e. Qantas doesn't like the idea of using a twin-engined plane on ULR routes over vast global expanses of nothingness.

I don't think Qantas gives a rat's ass about ETOPS. I'm guessing their primary consideration was whether a 777-200LR would allow a route premium which would pay for the airframe. It didn't appear to, so the 747-8, with a very reasonable CASM, seems to fit the bill (according to the article.)
 
krisyyz
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 4:44 am

I think that Qantas would do best with a streamlined long-haul fleet of A330/A346E/A380s.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 4:44 am

Quoting Zeus419 (Reply 41):
I think this confirms what we knew for a while -- i.e. Qantas doesn't like the idea of using a twin-engined plane on ULR routes over vast global expanses of nothingness.

how typical from you...I'm sure QF are afraid of running ULR routes over "vast global expanses of nothingness", yet its fine that JQ will be running routes to HNL with A330's then 787's....

funny, last time I checked, SYD-LHR route doesn't fly over "vast global expanses of nothingness"....... sarcastic 
 
dutchjet
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 4:46 am

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 44):
I think that Qantas would do best with a streamlined long-haul fleet of A330/A346E/A380s.

I wonder if you prefer Airbus over Boeing? What is Qantas gonna do with all of those 787s they just ordered?
 
ikramerica
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Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 4:47 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 42):
I really dont think that its a twin vs quad thing...

They are buying a boat load of twins in the 787, so you are right.

But, as others have said, the 787-10 kills the 772 for many airlines. Since QF are not already a 777 operator but have a contract for 787s with options and purchase rights, we can be pretty sure they will launch the 787-10 with either EK or SQ. And they may be waiting for a 789LR option in the future that does what the 772LR can't...

While there is still a gap between the 787-10 and the 744s they will fly for many years, it's not so big that QF need to introduce a new type to the fleet in the 777 unless the 777 provides something they can't do without. The 772LR obviously can't provide that "something" and thus the 777 is not going to fly in QF colors. Sad, but that's reality.

Expect their newest 744s to replace the older 2-class 747s in QFs fleet in the future, while 748i and 388s replace/expand their current 744 long-range operations.
 
krisyyz
Posts: 1330
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:04 pm

RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 4:50 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 46):
I wonder if you prefer Airbus over Boeing? What is Qantas gonna do with all of those 787s they just ordered

I prefer Boeing over Airbus any day. I just don't understand why Qantas would want the Hub kings and the Hub buster.

KrisYYZ
 
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ClassicLover
Posts: 5368
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RE: Qantas Drops 772LR, But Considers 748i To Dallas

Fri May 26, 2006 4:57 am

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 44):
I think that Qantas would do best with a streamlined long-haul fleet of A330/A346E/A380s.

*amused*

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 48):
I prefer Boeing over Airbus any day. I just don't understand why Qantas would want the Hub kings and the Hub buster.

Different missions?  Smile ... Some routes have the demand for very large aircraft and others don't. Therefore you get both.

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