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CCA
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Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Sat May 27, 2006 3:45 pm

Yesterdays South China Morning Post, reported that CX has reserved the final 5 747-400F slots.

Rgds CCA
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CX Flyboy
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Sat May 27, 2006 10:35 pm

This was in the newspaper last week. I am surprised it took so long for anyone here to pick it up!

Surprising actually, since I thought all future 747 freighters to the CX fleet would be BCFs. Still, a new shiny metal 747 will look great in CX colours!
 
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zeke
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Sun May 28, 2006 12:00 am

Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 1):
, a new shiny metal 747 will look great in CX colours!

Sure would, I think its got a retro feel as well.

I think this would save CX about 500t+ of fuel a year per aircraft (assuming about 600 kg weight reduction). Do that saving over a fleet, not exactly small change.
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worldxplorer
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Sun May 28, 2006 12:04 am

Intersting news. I hope the official announcement will be coupled with a 747-8F or 747-8I order. I can hope can't I?  crossfingers 

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ClassicLover
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Sun May 28, 2006 2:52 am

Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 1):
This was in the newspaper last week. I am surprised it took so long for anyone here to pick it up!

I am surprised you didn't start a topic on it last week when you read it in the newspaper!

Excellent news, hopefully it'll turn into a firm order for the final 747-400s.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
tjc2
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Sun May 28, 2006 4:27 am

Quoting WorldXplorer (Reply 3):
I hope the official announcement will be coupled with a 747-8F or 747-8I order. I can hope can't I?

Although i am probably biased in Airbus' favour, it would be good to see the 747-8I/F get an order from CX. Would it be the first one or has another carrier got there first?
The only time I made a mistake was when I thought I was wrong...
 
11Bravo
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Sun May 28, 2006 4:41 am

Quoting Tjc2 (Reply 5):
Would it be the first one or has another carrier got there first?

Cargolux (10) and Nippon Cargo Airlines (8) both have firm orders for the B748F. There are no orders for the B748I yet.
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dutchjet
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Sun May 28, 2006 4:41 am

While this is good news for Boeing........I am disappointed that CX did not reserve 5 spots for the 748F. I always thought that CX would be an early 748I/748F customer and I, personally, dont think that a CX 744F order supports the case that CX will now go for the 748. Time will tell.
 
DeltaWings
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Sun May 28, 2006 5:14 am

Does this mean the 747-400 line is closing down?
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worldxplorer
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Sun May 28, 2006 5:23 am

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 8):
Does this mean the 747-400 line is closing down?

It is my understanding that once the 744 slots were gone - they were gone. All future 747 orders must be 748I / 748F.

WorldXplorer
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Sun May 28, 2006 5:37 am

Quoting WorldXplorer (Reply 9):
It is my understanding that once the 744 slots were gone - they were gone. All future 747 orders must be 748I / 748F.

This is correct.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
11Bravo
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Sun May 28, 2006 5:38 am

Quoting WorldXplorer (Reply 9):
It is my understanding that once the 744 slots were gone - they were gone.

That is correct. If/when this order for five aircraft is firmed up, they will be the last B747-400 series aircraft produced. From now on it's B748.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
worldxplorer
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Sun May 28, 2006 5:50 am

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 11):
From now on it's B748.

That's pretty exciting actually.  bigthumbsup 
 
Lumberton
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Sun May 28, 2006 6:31 am

So PR won't be getting the 5 slots they had ordered, reserved, optioned, or whatever? (I believe it was five?)
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
brendows
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Sun May 28, 2006 8:23 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 13):
So PR won't be getting the 5 slots they had ordered, reserved, optioned, or whatever? (I believe it was five?)

They have four outstanding deliveries, which were ordered on the 4th of September 1996. They were supposed to be delivered in 97 or 98. Will they be delivered, no, definitely not.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Sun May 28, 2006 8:54 am

Quoting Brendows (Reply 14):
They were supposed to be delivered in 97 or 98. Will they be delivered, no, definitely not.

Wasn't the PR order actually deferred and the aircraft instead delivered to SA?

Great to see CX booking those final 5 slots.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
While this is good news for Boeing........I am disappointed that CX did not reserve 5 spots for the 748F.

Perhaps they'll instead order a few 748I for passenger service, though this could be in doubt given that they're getting the 77W soon.
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CX Flyboy
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Sun May 28, 2006 10:34 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 4):

I am surprised you didn't start a topic on it last week when you read it in the newspaper!

This way I am replying to news instead of spreading it. The company can be a bit sensitive about spreading news they are not ready to spread!
 
cloudyapple
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Sun May 28, 2006 12:36 pm

They've probably got a super bargain from Boeing for these last slots - end of line sale!
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boeingfever777
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Sun May 28, 2006 1:57 pm

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 11):
That is correct. If/when this order for five aircraft is firmed up,

So this will be a new order altogether and will show Boeing's website soon?

You guys think the order is for more and they might pick up some 748F's based on getting a good deal on the last (5) 744F's?
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ZK-NBT
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Sun May 28, 2006 2:58 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 13):
So PR won't be getting the 5 slots they had ordered, reserved, optioned, or whatever? (I believe it was five?)



Quoting Brendows (Reply 14):

They have four outstanding deliveries, which were ordered on the 4th of September 1996. They were supposed to be delivered in 97 or 98. Will they be delivered, no, definitely not.



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 15):

Wasn't the PR order actually deferred and the aircraft instead delivered to SA?

The 4 aircraft ordered by PR were built as 747-4F6's. 2 aircraft are now with SAA and 1 with NZ, not sure about the 4th frame, I think the one that PR just took that was ex AC/CP was delivered to CP in 1995?!
 
zvezda
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Sun May 28, 2006 3:21 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 15):

Perhaps they'll instead order a few 748I for passenger service, though this could be in doubt given that they're getting the 77W soon.

CX have some routes with a demand curve that will support aircraft larger than the B777-300ER, so long as the CASM is significantly lower. Both the SuperJumbo and the WhaleJet have dramatically lower CASM than the B777-300ER. The SuperJumbo has sufficient range to fly all of CX's major routes. I think Boeing will eventually sell a dozen or so SuperJumbos to CX for SFO, LAX, LHR, and perhaps FRA and SYD.
 
MaartenV
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Sun May 28, 2006 7:17 pm

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 19):
I think the one that PR just took that was ex AC/CP was delivered to CP in 1995?!

PR does fly a 747-4F6, but browsing through A.NET gives me the impression that it has been with PR since delivery, or at least since 1997. Does this mean that PR did take delilvery of one of the 744s they ordered?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mario Aurich


Edit: After some more browsing I found out that they actually operate three 747-4F6 and that Arab Emirate Flight operates some as well, so is F6 really the Boeing customer code for PR and why did they build more 4F6 version then PR ordered?

[Edited 2006-05-28 12:23:22]
Its all about supply and demand...
 
brendows
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Sun May 28, 2006 7:50 pm

Quoting Brendows (Reply 14):

They have four outstanding deliveries, which were ordered on the 4th of September 1996. They were supposed to be delivered in 97 or 98. Will they be delivered, no, definitely not.

I have to correct my self, deliveries were supposed to start in mid 1998.

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 19):
I think the one that PR just took that was ex AC/CP was delivered to CP in 1995?!



Quoting MaartenV (Reply 21):
PR does fly a 747-4F6, but browsing through A.NET gives me the impression that it has been with PR since delivery, or at least since 1997. Does this mean that PR did take delivery of one of the 744s they ordered?

RP-C8168, which is a 747-4F6, was delivered to Canadian Pacific in 95, and PR acquired it in late 2003.

Found that PR are operating a 747-469M (customer code for Kuwait Airways..,) which was delivered directly to PR in march 1996.

Seems like PR has four 4F6's and one 469M.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Mon May 29, 2006 3:04 pm

Quoting Brendows (Reply 22):
Seems like PR has four 4F6's and one 469M.

Yep thats correct!

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 21):
so is F6 really the Boeing customer code for PR and why did they build more 4F6 version then PR ordered?

Yes the correct code for PR is F6. They didn't build more than PR ordered, PR must have cancelled some other 744's aswell as the 4 in question from 1996.
 
brendows
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Mon May 29, 2006 6:29 pm

Quoting Brendows (Reply 22):
Found that PR are operating a 747-469M (customer code for Kuwait Airways..,) which was delivered directly to PR in march 1996.

The 469M was ordered on the 18th of January 1996, by PR, just some nine weeks before delivery, I guess that explains the customer code  Smile

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 23):
They didn't build more than PR ordered, PR must have cancelled some other 744's aswell as the 4 in question from 1996.

If IIRC, the last four -4F6s have not been cancelled, it has been stated on this forum on several occasions.
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Mon May 29, 2006 6:43 pm

Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 1):
This was in the newspaper last week. I am surprised it took so long for anyone here to pick it up!

Actually, you did make a very interesting comment in another thread about a week ago which I didn't quite pick up on.

Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 16):
This way I am replying to news instead of spreading it.

For which I thank you too. The following is not to question your comments or input sir but to seek clarification from others whom may know or be in a position to comment.

However it does lead to an interesting scenario with the final 5 744 delivery positions. On May 22nd the CFO of Air China Cargo Mr Wang Zhengang stated that they would buy 2 new 744Fs this year for delivery next year.

Air China Cargo are taking delivery of 3 x 744F this year, 1 new build and 2 x BCFs. The way their order was reported implied that they will take new build 744Fs, now if this is correct, CX can't take all 5 slots as 2 will be needed for Air China Cargo.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
While this is good news for Boeing........I am disappointed that CX did not reserve 5 spots for the 748F.

If (big if) the report on Air China Cargo is correct then that could open the possibility that CX may well have bought the remaining slots with the possibility of being able to convert them to 748-Fs. Just a thought which would be rendered redundant if it turns out Air China Cargo take more 744BCFs as, I too, thought that CX would take that route after their 773ER order rather than order more new builds.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
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B-HXB
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Mon May 29, 2006 7:07 pm

CX HATES being the launch customer for anything!
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Tue May 30, 2006 1:00 am

Quoting B-HXB (Reply 26):
CX HATES being the launch customer for anything!

Well, I would not go that farm but certainly after the workload involved with launching many other types they are reluctant to do further launches.

As for the China Cargo thing, there are rumours of an Air China Cargo, China Cargo, Dragonair and CX Cargo link up of some type. The orders for the 744Fs could well fall into that somewhere. Who knows....only rumours so far.
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Tue May 30, 2006 1:18 am

Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 27):
As for the China Cargo thing, there are rumours of an Air China Cargo, China Cargo, Dragonair and CX Cargo link up of some type. The orders for the 744Fs could well fall into that somewhere. Who knows....only rumours so far.

That too is correct CX flyboy, again I thank you for your input. What is certain is that Air China Cargo and China Cargo will merge by the end of September. They have already commenced the regulatory process to do so via the HKSE and other relevant regulatory authorities.

The Dragonair link was first reported publicly today in the Economic Review. The same journal also reported that the merged Air China Cargo and China Cargo plan to become one of the top 5 cargo carriers in the world once all is finalised. The venture is to be based in Shanghai. Very interesting times ahead in a sector that doesn't garner too much attention sometimes. It will be interesting to see how it all ends up once everything is finalised.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
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CX Flyboy
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Tue May 30, 2006 11:08 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 28):
What is certain is that Air China Cargo and China Cargo will merge by the end of September. They have already commenced the regulatory process to do so via the HKSE and other relevant regulatory authorities.

The Dragonair link was first reported publicly today in the Economic Review. The same journal also reported that the merged Air China Cargo and China Cargo plan to become one of the top 5 cargo carriers in the world once all is finalised. The venture is to be based in Shanghai. Very interesting times ahead in a sector that doesn't garner too much attention sometimes. It will be interesting to see how it all ends up once everything is finalised.

Thats interesting. Any mention of Dragonair or Cathay in that article?
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Cathay Reserves Last 5 -400F Slots.

Tue May 30, 2006 12:09 pm

Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 29):
Any mention of Dragonair or Cathay in that article?

To correct, I actually quoted the wrong journal, it was the Economic Observer. To answer your question. Yes there was mention of Dragonair though no mention of Cathay. It is a report which relies upon "unidentified sources" and the focus is mainly on the Dragonair aspect.

Air China Cargo and China Cargo are easy to get the information on so that will definately happen. The following is the only link I can find which quotes the report.

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds/afx/2006/05/28/afx2777913.html

Regards, PanAm_DC10
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