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twolz2rn
Topic Author
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DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:28 am

I was checking some fares in November for DL on the CVG-CDG route and noticed that it is no longer flying a 777! it has been downgraded to a 763! Are they going to use the 777 as a spare on either the NRT/TLV/JNB routes or will it be for a domestic route? I didn't check the actual date it changes, but i saw the change goes well into April...hopefully CVG won't permantly loose 777 service!
 
N766UA
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:39 am

Must just be seasonal. I know CVG-CDG does very well most of the time, certainly warranting a 777.
 
san747
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:45 am

Has AF made any changes? The AF flight is still an A340-300 isn't it? If it isn't, it could be some sign of reduced demand on the route...
Scotty doesn't know...
 
deltairlines
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:58 am

ATL-LGW doesn't have the 777 scheduled as of right now for November. I'm booked on the 777 LGW-ATL on October 29, but while I was looking at a LGW-ATL trip 2 weeks later, it was all 767-300s.

Jeff
 
HB-IWC
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:29 pm

Quoting TwoLz2Rn (Thread starter):
Are they going to use the 777 as a spare on either the NRT/TLV/JNB routes or will it be for a domestic route?

The ATL-JNB route is now also showing a B763ER in the reservation systems.
 
FlightShadow
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:45 pm

It doesn't surprise me...get this

From SLC, ATL gets 767-400s. JFK gets 767-300s. And CVG gets MD-90s. Can anyone say dying hub?
"When the tide goes out, you can tell who was skinnydipping."
 
skibum9
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:56 pm

The hub isn't dying. From what I understand the CVG-CDG route will eventually be served by the 767-400. DL needs the 777 elsewhere and it makes sense to have them all run out of ATL. The CVG-CDG route has been downgraded to a 763 many times in the past, for seasonal adjustments. However that flight goes out very full and is very profitable. It isn't going away.
Tailwinds!!!
 
HPAEAA
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:00 pm

Quoting FlightShadow (Reply 5):
From SLC, ATL gets 767-400s. JFK gets 767-300s. And CVG gets MD-90s. Can anyone say dying hub?

Well with a "new" hub at jfk and a "downsized" hub at CVG, I know the CVG fans are going to hate me for this but can you say, soon to be further cut hub? I think that as JFK ramps up the INTL is going to get pulled from CVG in favor of JFK, CLE for example only has the seasonal LGW flight on a 757, and CMH has no transatlantic service, both are much larger metro areas than CVG... only time will tell but I think JFK is going to get all the INTL from CVG....
1.4mm and counting...
 
rwsea
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:24 pm

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 7):
Well with a "new" hub at jfk and a "downsized" hub at CVG, I know the CVG fans are going to hate me for this but can you say, soon to be further cut hub? I think that as JFK ramps up the INTL is going to get pulled from CVG in favor of JFK, CLE for example only has the seasonal LGW flight on a 757, and CMH has no transatlantic service, both are much larger metro areas than CVG... only time will tell but I think JFK is going to get all the INTL from CVG....

I disagree to an extent. CVG's flights to Europe must be doing well, or else DL wouldn't bring back FCO every year and keep the number of flights that they have. Obviously, though, these flights exist based on connections. If the domestic routes to CVG lose money and continue to be cut back, the International flights would probably die off as the connecting opportunities are reduced.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:08 pm

I don't really see a point in this thread, as DL has been downgrading their CVG-CDG to a 763ER over the winter for as long as they have been operating the 777 on that route during the summer. During winter, demand is simply not that high, which is why AF's flight is summer-only (though AF officially prefers to cancel the route forever, however always returns for the next summer season  Silly ).
 
panamair
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:05 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 9):
DL has been downgrading their CVG-CDG to a 763ER

Actually, I believe that they continued to operate CVG-CDG with the 777 last winter.

It is way too early to speculate anyway...right now the schedule shows hardly any 777s for Nov/Dec except for NRT/TLV/JNB/FRA. Even all ATL-CDG now show 763ERs for Nov/Dec. As we know by now, DL continues to tweak schedules up to 1-1.5 months before the actual month - in fact, we can't even be 100% sure of the September/October schedule at this point....
 
MAH4546
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:40 pm

Quoting FlightShadow (Reply 5):
From SLC, ATL gets 767-400s. JFK gets 767-300s. And CVG gets MD-90s. Can anyone say dying hub?

Can anyone say "aircraft repositioning"?

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 7):
CLE for example only has the seasonal LGW flight on a 757, and CMH has no transatlantic service, both are much larger metro areas than CVG..

The Cincinnati region is larger than Columbus, not much smaller than Cleveland, and arguably a much more important economic centre than both.
a.
 
FlightShadow
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:17 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):

Can anyone say "aircraft repositioning"?

I don't understand?  confused  I mean I know what aircraft repositioning is but I really don't think it applies in this case...
"When the tide goes out, you can tell who was skinnydipping."
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:24 pm

Quoting FlightShadow (Reply 12):
I mean I know what aircraft repositioning is but I really don't think it applies in this case...

It sure does.
The 763ERs to JFK continue on to Europe.
The 764s to SLC continue on to Hawaii.
The MD-90s are a moot point, and FWIW, ATL-CVG sees 763ER repositioning flights as well.
 
positiverate
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:33 pm

Quoting TwoLz2Rn (Thread starter):
was checking some fares in November for DL on the CVG-CDG route and noticed that it is no longer flying a 777! it has been downgraded to a 763! Are they going to use the 777 as a spare on either the NRT/TLV/JNB routes or will it be for a domestic route? I didn't check the actual date it changes, but i saw the change goes well into April...hopefully CVG won't permantly loose 777 service!

It's seasonal demand. CDG in the autumn isn't as popular as it is during the peak travel season of summer. Everyone relax...
 
masseybrown
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:57 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
The Cincinnati region is larger than Columbus, not much smaller than Cleveland, and arguably a much more important economic centre than both.

Just to muddy the water with a few facts:

CLE CMSA 2.95 million
CVG CMSA 1.98 milion
CMH CMSA 1.54 million

MSA/CMSA population aggregates seem to me to be the best measurement to describe commercial airport cachements. The CLE CMSA includes Akron, but that shouldn't matter much for international traffic.
 
N160LH
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:51 am

Everyone knows that DL's (domestic) -400s can carry more pax than DL's 777s... My Question is how seats will the international -400s have on them..? And is DL going to keep running ATL-LIM on a domestic -400 (I would have to think they would)..? I ask this because this would effect where DL sends there 8 777s..?


-160
"I do alright up in the air, its down on the ground that I tend to mess up..."
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:58 am

Quoting FlightShadow (Reply 5):
It doesn't surprise me...get this

From SLC, ATL gets 767-400s. JFK gets 767-300s. And CVG gets MD-90s. Can anyone say dying hub?

SLC currently has no DL 777s coming in and out, and no overseas service to speak of. Yes, it has become a much busier domestic hub for DL, but given it's O&D numbers it shouldn't surprise anyone. The next phase of DLs International expansion will likely involve Asia, China & India in particular. In the east JFK and ATL get all such glory, in the west you can bet that SLC WILL NOT be part of that other than feeder traffic. LAX will be DLs next International expansion hub. Despite their loss of presence there and Terminal 5 financial mess, International service will be what DL does to reinvigorate its presence at LAX and domestic feeds from SLC and ATL will be critical for it's success.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
OlegShv
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:14 am

Quoting San747 (Reply 2):
Has AF made any changes? The AF flight is still an A340-300 isn't it? If it isn't, it could be some sign of reduced demand on the route...

AF is still flying an A343 to CVG during the summer, but nothing during the winter. My mom was flying CDG-CVG last Sunday, the flight was full, no empty seats.
 
Avatordon
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:52 am

CVG is big domestic hub for DL; CDG big hub (period) for AF and Skyteam; hub to hub, the dynamics work - seasonal adjustments notwithstanding.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:39 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 17):
LAX will be DLs next International expansion hub

Delta tried service to Asia from LAX it didnt work at all

No one is willing to connect that much hence why the PDX fligths to Asia died. AN EXTRA CONNECTION Too much connecting to compete with United IE (SFO and ORD) or NWA (MSP and DET) with much better feed and less connecting. Not to mention the HUGE disadvantage that Delta has no NRT hub to move passengers thru

delta dosnt have the feed at LAX like it didnt have at PDX or the International frequent fliers loyalty at LAX to compete

Delta tried service to Asia out of a non hub it wont work they tried it out of LAX and PDX both failed for the same reson extra connecting and not enough local feed to compete

[Edited 2006-06-02 04:04:02]
 
HPAEAA
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:13 am

Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 20):
United IE (SFO and ORD) or NWA (MSP and DET)

Don't forget UA's Conx through SEA, and LAX...

as far as NW its DTW for Detroit, and they also have a couple NRT flights out of SEA LAX and a couple others I think....
1.4mm and counting...
 
foxxray
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:40 am

I have flew many times CDG-CVG and the flights were always full !
 
skymileman
Posts: 577
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:43 am

That's too bad. It was kind of nice to see someone other than ATL getting some good international 777 service on DL.
 
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B742
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:40 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 1):
I know CVG-CDG does very well most of the time, certainly warranting a 777.

Would a twice daily 763 be suitable for this route?

I hope CVG can keep it's 777!

Rob!  wave 
 
DAYflyer
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:46 am

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 7):
both are much larger metro areas than CVG...

CMH does not serve a "far larger metro area" than CVG. CVG serves aprov 2.25 million people. CVG boasts far more non-stop and 1 stop service than CMH and its airport is certainly an indication of much greater activity. Ever been to CMH? You could fit it all in concourse B of CVG.

CLE is much larger however.
One Nation Under God
 
dutchjet
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:50 am

As many pointed out, the on-line schedules are far from definite at this point in time for anything more than 1 to 2 months out.......after that, everything is subject to change.

In a couple of months time, DL will determine if the CVG-CDG route will stay with the 763ER, maybe get an international standard 764ER, or stay with the 772ER.....it all depends on aircraft allocations, which routes require the seats, and which route needs which type. With DL adding lots of new longhaul routes for the summer season, DL must determine the winners and the losers and make many decisions as to which routes will continue year round, which will be seasonal, etc. There is a lot going on at DL at the moment....and the 763ER on the CVG-CDG route is nothing more than a placeholder until a definite allocation can be made.

Someone mentioned that only a handful of routes are showing the 777 at this time......my guess is that would be the ATL-TLV and ATL-NRT routes, as those routes simply need the 777 for its range.
 
luv2fly
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
The Cincinnati region is larger than Columbus, not much smaller than Cleveland, and arguably a much more important economic centre than both.

CVG is hardly more important than the CLE area, and is actually in the State of Ohio, unlike CVG!

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 7):
only time will tell but I think JFK is going to get all the INTL from CVG....

I have to second this one.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2901
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Sat Jun 03, 2006 6:31 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 27):

CVG is hardly more important than the CLE area, and is actually in the State of Ohio, unlike CVG!

CVG serves the Cincinnati metro area, which is in Ohio. Who cares where the actual airport is, that's like saying EWR doesn't serve as an NYC airport.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 27):
I have to second this one.

Not gonna happen. DL doesn't even serve JFK-LGW and likely never will, already showing a route that CVG will keep and not lose to JFK.

Jeremy
 
FlyDeltaJets
Posts: 1655
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RE: DL Downgrades CVG-CDG In Fall

Sat Jun 03, 2006 7:14 am

The bookings for the summe CVG-CDG 777 are not looking that high right now. That might be the reason for the down grade.

The 763 for JFK-SLC is seasonal it is usually flown with a 757.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts

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