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dalneighbor
Topic Author
Posts: 589
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:04 pm

B6 To DAL?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:23 pm

....... or maybe AA trying to block the entry of another carrier. What do you think?


http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/business/14724094.htm

...But Alan Naul, asset manager for Love Terminal Partners, which owns the former Legend terminal, told the Star-Telegram that his company is close to signing a deal to sell the facility to a publicly traded airline.

Naul, who declined to name the carrier, said he hopes to announce a deal sometime in the next couple of weeks.....

The Legend terminal is a six gate facility designed to accomodate DC9s reconfigured to 56 first class seats. The terminal is very nice and is located on the East side of the airport which is perfectly placed for a 5 minute drive from Dallas' wealthiest areas.
Wright Amendment = Federally Engineered AA Price Gouging
 
BHMNONREV
Posts: 1237
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:54 pm

I would be more inclined to believe it would be B6 vs AA just trying to block a move, although with the Legend terminal configured for DC-9's it would require some substantial modifications to accommodate the Airbus' larger wingspan.

However I'm sure the Embraers would fit in there nicely...
 
stirling
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:15 pm

Quoting DALNeighbor (Thread starter):
But Alan Naul, asset manager for Love Terminal Partners, which owns the former Legend terminal, told the Star-Telegram that his company is close to signing a deal to sell the facility to a publicly traded airline.

That would be very INTERESTING, since it is my understanding that AA has some backdoor control over the Legend property...
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FA4B6
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:57 pm

If the WA is repealed, I could see DAL-JFK/BOS/LGB! I think it would be fantastic on the E190 on B6!

[Edited 2006-06-02 17:05:15]
"Leap! And the net will appear."
 
dartland
Posts: 514
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:04 am

Quoting FA4B6 (Reply 3):
Where exactly would B6 fly to from DAL?

Nowhere. Can't be B6 unless it is contigent on the Wright Amendment disappearing. In fact, I can't think of ANY airline who would do that with Wright in place....unless maybe it's CO, figuring they already use 2-3 gates, have a nice regional market to expand to, and plan to widen ExpressJet operations out of there, and hedging their bets that Wright will go away and it'll pay off big-time.
 
luvfa
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:31 am

Quoting FA4B6 (Reply 3):
If the WA is repealed, I could see DAL-JFK/BOS/LGB! I think it would be fantastic on the E190 on B6!

You guys could easily fill an A320 on those routes. Dallas is hurting big time for affordable fares!
 
dartland
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:47 am

Quoting Luvfa (Reply 5):
You guys could easily fill an A320 on those routes. Dallas is hurting big time for affordable fares!

And by "fill an A320", you mean, fill LOTS of A320s....

(in other words, I agree)
 
dalneighbor
Topic Author
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 2:40 am

Quoting FA4B6 (Reply 3):
I could see DAL-JFK/BOS/LGB!

B6 on those routes along with LGA would be AA's worst nightmare.
Wright Amendment = Federally Engineered AA Price Gouging
 
skymileman
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 2:43 am

I'm surprised CO doesn't use XJ to fly to EWR. They can, since it is only a fifty seat aircraft.
 
ejmmsu
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:13 am

Quoting Skymileman (Reply 8):
I'm surprised CO doesn't use XJ to fly to EWR. They can, since it is only a fifty seat aircraft.

I'm not suprised since XJ is not affiliated with CO and is phasing out jets. I don't see how an all-prop NW affilliated regional would ever be considered to fly DAL-EWR for CO
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
deltaffindfw
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:14 am

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 9):
I'm not suprised since XJ is not affiliated with CO and is phasing out jets. I don't see how an all-prop NW affilliated regional would ever be considered to fly DAL-EWR for CO

The use of XJ is not meant to be Mesaba - but ExpressJet.
 
texan
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:27 am

Quoting Luvfa (Reply 5):
You guys could easily fill an A320 on those routes. Dallas is hurting big time for affordable fares!

Dallas is hurting for affordable airfares, but DAL is a niche market. It does not have great access and is convenient for a smaller proportion of the population than DFW. You would not necessarily see fares dramatically decrease at DFW with the opening of DAL. Even if fares from DFW did drop, yields out of DFW would still be much higher.

Service from DAL to ATL and CLE have not worked; DL completely cut their DAL-ATL service, and CO tranferred some of the CLE service back to DFW. Service from DAL will not work for all airlines to all destinations. You'll see the key business markets of course and the Orlandos of the lower 48, but none of the selection that currently is at and will stay put at DFW. DFW is and will always be the cornerstone of commercial aviation in Texas; DAL will be a role player only.

Why would B6 want to purchase that terminal? They tend to build up their operations slowly, and purchasing 6 gates outright at a smaller airport with limited access where they have absolutely no customer base and are going up against two entrenched, hubbed carriers is not at all consistent with their business plan. I have no idea who it might be as we have not heard any rumors of it here on the field, but I very much doubt that B6 would be interested in it.

Maybe ATA  Silly

Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
skymileman
Posts: 577
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2001 2:32 am

RE: B6 To DAL?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:30 am

Quoting Texan (Reply 11):
CO tranferred some of the CLE service back to DFW.

Last I checked, all of it had gone to DFW.
 
ti717
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:34 am

CO (ExpressJet) did have RJ service to CLE pre 9/11.

The ERJ-XLR has the legs to do the flights. My guess is CO in DAL would take more PAX (Loyal CO FF) away from DFW then genarate new PAX from other airlines.

TI717
Sir, don't you think we should turn on the runway lights?" "No, that's just what there expecting us to do!"
 
texan
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:50 am

Quoting Skymileman (Reply 12):
Last I checked, all of it had gone to DFW.

Poor word choice on my part  Smile

They transferred some of the DAL service to DFW and cancelled the rest of the DAL service. They only operate to IAH currently.

Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
skymileman
Posts: 577
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:52 am

Quoting Texan (Reply 14):
Poor word choice on my part

No problem. I was just all excited all of a sudden thinking i could fly CO from CLE to DAL.  Smile
 
scintx
Posts: 252
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:16 am

I've always wondered if the old Legend Terminal would go to good use. It's ashame that it sits there. I fly COexpress out of DAL all the time and liked having the CLE service pre 9/11. There has always been the opportunity for another carrier to have some level of operation like CO out of DAL and there must not be a market for it. My gut feeling is if the WA was repealed you would not see carriers abandon DFW or split their service just to serve DAL too. I would be shocked if B6 did fly out of there even if there wasn't a WA issue. At DFW you have a much larger population to gather from. I could be very wrong on this too. I'm just a frequent flyer with his .02 cents.
Attention All Planets of the Solar Federation....We have assumed control.....We have assumed control......
 
Azul320
Posts: 257
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:42 am

B6 should expand in TX.
JFK/BOS-DFW
JFK/BOS-IAH
JFK-SAT
Hello B6 Hello!
Excuse me, while I kiss the sky
 
aa61hvy
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 7:04 am

I think B6 from DFW-JFK would be good. Just taking a quick look at the flights today and tommorow from DFW-JFK on AA it's three and two flights respectively with a 763, 752, 752.

Today from DFW-BOS there are 10 flights on AA, all with MD-80's. So that could be a little harder to work in terms of competition.

But I think the JFK market is there.
Go big or go home
 
dutchjet
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 7:24 am

JetBlue at DAL, and buying the Legend Terminal.......what about the 56 pax limitation that remains in effect at DAL for services such as DAL-JFK that were mentioned above? An E190 with only 56 seats, that doesnt fit into the JetBlue business model....everyone needs to calm down?

Could it be that AA will purchase the Legend Terminal for increased services out of DAL? Would AA acquire this terminal as a protective measure just in case Wright gets appeals or modified to allow more service out of Love??
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 7:39 am

What about Frontier? DAL-DEN is only 650 miles which is not an excessive length to have to ride in a regional jet. Passengers could continue on to other points beyond Denver, just like Continental Express' passengers do now through IAH.

Plus, it would send a message to Southwst -- You invaded our turf at DEN so now we're gonna invade your turf at DAL.

Once the Wright Amendment is repealed, Frontier could then upgrade the service to mainline if they chose to do so.

Just a thought.

LoneStarMike

 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 7:44 am

Thinking outside the box a bit: E-170's fitted with a 6 row 1x2 Biz Class, and a 40 seat economy class would be a good interim measure as long as Wright is in place. I wonder what the economics of such a configuration would be on the 170...not TOO much seating reduction and the Biz Class could offset the lack of full configuration.

Now who has E-170's with nowhere to fly?
Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
 
UnitedTristar
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 7:47 am

Whats the limits of the WA?? Is it under 60 seats or under 70? This could be another Texas Focus city? If the rule is under 70 seats, UA could do quite nicely with some DAL - SFO trips to meet up with Asia and some DAL - IAD service to meet with Europe ex plus Flights.

-m

[Edited 2006-06-03 00:50:29]
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 7:49 am

Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 22):


Is it under 60 seats or under 70?

56 seats is the current limit.
Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
 
UnitedTristar
Posts: 863
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 6:45 am

RE: B6 To DAL?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 7:51 am

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 23):
56 seats is the current limit.

Well I suppose they could do it with the CRJ but that would obvously not be the ideal.

-m

 airplane 
 
planespotting
Posts: 3026
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:54 am

RE: B6 To DAL?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 7:59 am

Quoting DALNeighbor (Reply 7):
B6 on those routes along with LGA would be AA's worst nightmare.

Come on Jet Blue!!!!!!
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
milemaster
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 8:22 am

I think all this optimism is great, but the chances of any other airline other than AA being behind the potential purchase of the property is pretty slim.

You all can bet that if it is AA, their intentions aren't to fly anything out of the old Legend terminal. It will sit empty until they either demolish it or are forced to use it.
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 8:28 am

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 20):
What about Frontier? DAL-DEN is only 650 miles which is not an excessive length to have to ride in a regional jet.

But Frontier Jet Express/Horizon use 70 pax CR7s. Do you think they would take out 14 seats just to serve DAL?
Of course, they (F9) could get someone else to begin DEN-DAL flights, but highly unlikely in my mind.
Riddle: Which lasts longer, a start-up airline or a start-up football league?
 
DLAgent
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:38 am

RE: B6 To DAL?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:23 pm

This was discussed today in our employee lounges, & we wre told it was MESA who was the suitor here.
 
ejmmsu
Posts: 1647
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:06 pm

Quoting DLAgent (Reply 28):
MESA

Mesa! wow... at least their jets can get by the seat restrictions
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
COfaninBOS
Posts: 284
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:04 am

On a side note, CO Express is up to 15 midweek departures per day to IAH from Love Field. I've flown the route a few times when I needed to be in downtown Dallas and they were always pretty full.
 
deltaffindfw
Posts: 1520
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:14 am

New news:

The Dallas City Council will vote Wednesday to study options for acquiring the former Legend Airlines terminal at Dallas Love Field – including seizing the property through eminent domain.

The proposal is in response to comments from the terminal's operators that they are negotiating to sell the building to an unnamed commercial airline, Mayor Laura Miller said.


"We need to make it very clear to the public that we don't anticipate there being airlines operating out of that facility ever again," Ms. Miller said. "It's a bit premature from the bigger issue at hand, but once you're on notice that a deal is being done you don't want on your property, you need to respond."

The owners of the former Legend terminal say they're in "exclusive negotiations" with a publicly held commercial carrier to buy a 30-acre parcel that includes the six-gate facility.

The property has room for the Legend terminal to grow and is not restricted by the Love Field Master Plan, Mr. Naul said. The 2001 master plan, intended to limit growth at Love, capped the airport at 32 gates.

Mr. Naul said that as a privately owned facility, the property would not be subject to gate-sharing plans at public-owned terminals.

Mr. Naul said the company's long-term lease includes "specific rights to build as many gates as we want."

Officials at American Airlines Inc., Southwest Airlines Co., Continental Airlines Inc., ExpressJet Airlines, AirTran Airways Inc. and JetBlue Airways Corp. said they were unaware of plans at their carriers to purchase the Love terminal.


http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...t.ART0.State.Edition1.3e78ed2.html
 
milemaster
Posts: 1071
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:36 am

The land/terminal is worth an estimated 100 million dollars. So.. even if the Dallas City council somehow manages to spend even 1/3 of that when the city is having trouble paying police officers/firemen/teachers competitively you can bet there'll be hell to pay.

Considering the tax base in Dallas, it's amazing how poorly the city is run.
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:50 am

I honestly do not see this being B6. It's most likely CO, if you ask me...they already have lots of cities within Texas and states that are a part of Wright. B6 just has absolutely no reason to go into DAL with Wright still in place, and they also have much bigger fish to fry at JFK, BOS, and MCO. I really would not expect B6 in the Dallas area until 2008 at earliest, unless the Wright problem is solved.

JetBluefan1
 
JayDavis
Posts: 1870
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:01 am

Why in the world would you pick CO, JetBlueFan1?

They already fly into DAL, from IAH along with DFW. Now they did have service in the past to CLE and "maybe" EWR, but CO's Texas hub is just down the road at IAH. I truly don't see them making a big push into DAL, at all.

My two cents worth............
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 3310
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

RE: B6 To DAL?

Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:07 am

Quoting JayDavis (Reply 34):
Why in the world would you pick CO, JetBlueFan1?

They already fly into DAL, from IAH along with DFW. Now they did have service in the past to CLE and "maybe" EWR, but CO's Texas hub is just down the road at IAH. I truly don't see them making a big push into DAL, at all.

My two cents worth............

Woops! I meant AA, not CO. Sorry! Perhaps it's just a "throw-off" type of thing by AA to make it look like it's attempting to fight off another competitor.

Basically, with little progress on Wright, which airline would possibly be willing to have talks with DAL and the ordeal other than WN/AA? Certainly not B6, that's for sure. And I really don't that US, DL, UA or NW are in position to purchase a facility and open up another focus city (especially one that competes directly with WN).

JetBluefan1
 
milemaster
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:33 am

I suspect we'll hear something in the next week.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: B6 To DAL?

Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:46 am

Personally, I think that a certain AAirline wants to go on a land buying spree around DAL.

As it's looking more likely by the day that a Wright repeal will pass Congress and the Senate, I think that AA is already drawing up plans to buy land to build a 20+ gate terminal at DAL (and fight in court to repeal the Love Master Plan while they're at it).

My thoughts: if AA keeps this up, get ready for AA's new nonstop service to Chapter 11. As soon as Wright is repealed, WN will slaughter AA's last domestic profit center... which is the real reason why AA poured $1.5 million into Stop and Think.
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