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Shamrock330
Posts: 280
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RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:47 am

Perhaps Tel Aviv, i know it may seem a bit far fetched but if you consider the decent amount of people who make the journey in the spring/summer time each year then it may make sense to start a seasonal service.

In addition to this there is a small but active Jewish pop of about 1,800 in southern Dublin. I would imagine a good few of them make the trip quite regularly. I have alot of Jewish friends who live nearby and they go back to Israel3/4 times a yr, the majority via the heathrow hell hole. A direct flight would be perfect for them, but again would the market support even a seasonal flight? Hard to figure out?

BTW would a A319 be capable of Dub-TLV, anyone know?
 
kaitak
Topic Author
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RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:52 am

An A319 could definitely do TLV, but so could the current EI A320s. Mind you, the Jewish community at home isn't really large enough to justify a direct route. Also, wouldn't the extra security required for a TLV operation undermine the profitability of the route?

Don't get my wrong; I'd like to see a direct link, but I don't see it happening - at least not yet.
 
dstc47
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RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:22 am

A direct link to TLV would be nice.

I understand that the total Jewish community in Ireland is less than 1,000 persons now, so that market segment scarcely exists.

While there have been several charter services to Israel over the years, it does not seem like a sustainable route for EI, either Tel Aviv or Eilat. The religious traffic to the "Holy Land" seems to be in decline too.

But then did not Moses also command tents (or marquees) to be built, so perhaps the DAA could certainly learn something in Israel. Perhaps we could we could send some of their planners out there?
 
Shamrock330
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RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:50 am

Quoting Dstc47 (Reply 52):
I understand that the total Jewish community in Ireland is less than 1,000 persons now, so that market segment scarcely exists.

Yes, thats true. So as the jewish pop declines, the muslim pop is growing quite substantially. Over 20,000 now. Is there any particular countries they originate from, any routes that EI could open to exploit this growing segment, or do they come from many different countries/regions thus deeming any specific route unfeasible. Just a thought.
 
smokeyrosco
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RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:24 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 37):
As for the DAA

Honestly do not get me started, RTE showed pictures of a full car park in Dublin Airport tonight on the news, they didn't show the carpark on the opposite side of the lifts where spaces have been lost because of something that the DAA didn't think they needed planing permission for.....

Any my question was, wasn't T3 suppose to be tendered to someone else altogether? or was that a plan that never 'flew'?

sorry for the pun but it's late (or early)
John Hancock
 
planemanofnz
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RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:36 pm

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 18):
QF codeshare with Air France, US Airways, Alaska Airlines, El Al and Alitalia outside of oneworld.

You forgot about TN, GF, OZ, MU, FJ, NF, SB, SA and soon NZ! Do QF codeshare with SK or is this just in the selling of tickets, FFP e.t.c?

In terms of new routes, what about Cairo? Moscow would be great to see, even if Aeroflot started the route before EI. I can see CPH coming back before HEL because AY already operate the route. Old routes coming back, had anybody thought about MCO or BWI?

Other routes I'd like to see would be Casablanca, Malta, Sofia, Oslo, Istanbul and Athens.
 
Toulouse
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RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:17 pm

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 33):
Damn you Eikiwi, don't know if I'll be able to sleep tonight now waiting for the news.

Just to let you know, I did manage to sleep...

Quoting Provance (Reply 35):
Also saw that old EI advert on test the nation last night.I dont know why but I felt an extreme pride in EI, when I saw that advert.

As Kaitak asks below:

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 37):
Was that the Gabriel's Oboe ad? I used to love that; I always loved that piece of music and much like the William Tell overture reminds me of the Lone Ranger, it reminds me of EI.

I loved that ad. I recently posted on Non-aviatio a "Tribute to my dad", the wonderful man who got me interested in aviation. Unfortunately he passed away on April 24th. I was in Malaga, and had a terrible time getting home when I discovered on the morning of the 24th that he had gone into a come over night. Not a single seat from anywhere in Spain until Wednesday, and big complication flying via anywhere else. EI saved my day, they were great. Kept phoning me back and eventually phoned me to say they had an air hostess non-reving on the 23:10 AGP-DUB service and I could take her seat and she'd go in the jump-seat. What interest and compassion they showed in my case. They even phoned me a few hours later to say they had informed Iberia (handling agent at AGP) of my situation, that they had reserved seat 1C for me so I could disembark quickly in Dublin and that I didn't have to check my luggage in, could bring it on board so I wouldn't have to wait in DUB. Even when boarding, the crew were aware of my situation, and very discretely took wonderful care of me. Unfortunately dad passed awy about 20 minutes after I took off from DUB. See my post "A tribute to my dad" in non-aviation if you want (I posted it about 2 or 3 weeks ago).
Anyway, back to point. Dad and myself always loved that ad and the music. At dad's funeral, and as he was an avid aviation enthusiast and lover of EI, I totally broke down at the end of the funeral when the last song came on, it was so fitting, it was Gabriel's Oboe, I couldn't believe it! All I could think of was dad and myself watching the ad and saying how much we loved it. And it was totally unplanned, as my sister chose the music and was unaware of this link, when I told her she was also very touched.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 38):
Rennes in France

EI are already flying to Rennes on Tuesdays and Saturdays since the beginning of this summer season.

[Edited 2006-06-07 08:18:08]

[Edited 2006-06-07 08:18:35]
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
eikiwi
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RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:40 pm

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 56):
Quoting Toulouse (Reply 33):
Damn you Eikiwi, don't know if I'll be able to sleep tonight now waiting for the news.

Just to let you know, I did manage to sleep...

Well I'm delighted you got some rest!!

I'll tell you now, coz I know you've been waiting!!

DUB - NCL (daily)
DUB - TRN (3x per week. Days 2,4 & 7)
ORK - MAD (3x per week. Days 2,4 & 6)
ORK - ACE (2x per week. Days 2 & 6)
ORK - PRG (3x per week. Days 3,5 & 7).

Should display online in couple of hrs ......

 Wink  thumbsup 
eikiwi
NPC to IVC
 
Toulouse
Posts: 2200
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RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:45 pm

Quoting Eikiwi (Reply 57):
Well I'm delighted you got some rest!!

I'll tell you now, coz I know you've been waiting!!

DUB - NCL (daily)
DUB - TRN (3x per week. Days 2,4 & 7)
ORK - MAD (3x per week. Days 2,4 & 6)
ORK - ACE (2x per week. Days 2 & 6)
ORK - PRG (3x per week. Days 3,5 & 7).

Should display online in couple of hrs ......

Great to see this, and very positive for ORK. I always thought an ORK-MAD service would be a good idea.
I had however been hoping/dreaming that EI had decided to maintain DUB-TLS for the winter season...

Yet more great news for EI's route expansion.
Thanks Eikiwi for the news!
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
Toulouse
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RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:26 pm

Flights now bookable on aerlingus.com. No cheap fares though I must say!
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
EI321
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RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:42 pm

Im dissapointed! I was expecting a few new destinations that EI have not served before.
 
Aer Lingus
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RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:15 pm

at a whopping €345 return to NCL I'd rather grin and bear FR for a tenner or indeed go to DXB for pretty much the same price
 
keego
Posts: 187
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RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:33 pm

Quoting EI787 (Reply 2):
One of the runways at the airport has been closed to clean up an oil spill resulting from the incident, but no delays to other flights are expected.

Does anyone know which runway has been closed?

A bit of a late reply I know but it was 10 that was closed. I was flying to London on Sat morning and saw the aircraft (A320) being towed off the runway at around 8.15am. I didn't see where they brought it but I'm pretty sure it was one of the remote stands and not a maintenance hanger.
 
eikiwi
Posts: 65
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RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:51 pm

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 59):
Flights now bookable on aerlingus.com. No cheap fares though I must say!



Quoting Aer Lingus (Reply 61):
at a whopping €345 return to NCL I'd rather grin and bear FR for a tenner or indeed go to DXB for pretty much the same price

Just a temporary thing fellas .... Happens when new flights are loaded sometimes. There is a fix that kicks in overnight - (tonight in this case) that sorts it out ..... They won't all be the price of a DXB rtn!!!

 Smile eikiwi
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shamrock350
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RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:35 am

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 58):
I had however been hoping/dreaming that EI had decided to maintain DUB-TLS for the winter season...

 crossfingers  that EI will order some A319's. Then TLS might be in with a chance again.
I was hoping for some long-haul routes but I knew it was too early for that. It's still good for EI and Cork!
 
EI321
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RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:27 am

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 64):
Then TLS might be in with a chance again.

I wish they still had the 735s!
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:39 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 65):
I wish they still had the 735s!

I miss flying on them. The new A320s are alot more comfortable but one of my first slights was on an EI 737-400-500.
 
kaitak
Topic Author
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RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:03 am

Yes, the old 737s were fine aircraft, but you really do notice the quality and comfort of the A320s; even though they're in an all-Y configuration, they're still very comfortable. There's not much comparison to FR's 738s either.

My first flight was on an Aer Lingus 707, in December 1969 - not that I remember much; I was in a baby bassinet!

Moving swiftly along!

Here's a photo of the new Terminal D at DUB.

http://www.dublinairport.com/about-u...irport-development/Terminal_2.html

Just wanted to share a few thoughts on it. Now, I'm no architect, but it occurs to me that
(a) the construction of this terminal will involve the loss of most of the gates at the new Pier C and certainly the ones towards the end (C43-45), during construction. At least one of those is a widebody gate, as EI A330s regularly use it, for example for DXB flights.
(b) only one side of the new pier can take widebodies - and only five at that.
(c) So, for the loss of the widebody gates at Pier C (they can't be used simultaneously with T2's pier), the airport only gains 5 w/b stands; effectively, that's a NET gain of only three - leaving aside the loss of the remote stands, used for cargo acft mainly.
(d) Think about that for the moment. The Taoiseach, Min. for Transport etc. were talking about a new terminal that could handle an extra 12m pax per annum and could handle growth for the next few years. And this is what we get.
(e) The DAA recently announced that T2 would need to be expanded, because it was too small to deal with growth projections. Now, usually, when you plan a new terminal, you plan it to accommodate growth a good 10-15 years down the road, yet less than 6 months down the road, the DAA admits that its new design is not big enough! (I think the size of the building is somewhat academic if there isn't the physical space for new aircraft. There's virtually no expansion space at all.
(f) The DAA cited as a reason for the need to increase the terminal size, that the planned growth of the two main Irish carriers was higher than expected. Now, how long have we known that EI wanted a fleet of around 14 widebodies and that Open Skies was on the way? Three, four years perhaps? That just doesn't wash!

I don't want to turn this into a public mockery of the DAA, but there comes a time when bad planning of this nature becomes a threat to economic growth. Dublin Airport already has a bad reputation for congestion. I'm just wondering how long the govt can wait before it decides that things need to change radically. Will they wait until 2009? Or, will they recognise NOW that something needs to be done and start with the planning process for T3 ... keeping the DAA as far from it as possible?
 
Toulouse
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RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:43 am

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 64):
that EI will order some A319's. Then TLS might be in with a chance again.

Thanks Shamrock350!

Regarding comments on the 737s, I agree with Kaitak, the Airbus really are much more comfortable than the old 737's from a pax perspective. Must say though I did have a soft spot for the 500's, for some reason I never liked the 737-400.

Not as old as you Kaitak!! But it's strange I can well remeber flying EI 707's but don't have many memories of being on their 737-200s, which I was on more often than the 707.What about the 111's... now they were rockets. And starting to show our age (yet I'm still a spring chicken), any of you get to fly on the Trident, I remember (rather vaguely) a couple of BA Trident flights. What a change from the old Tridents, 111s even... Caravelles to the 320's today. (Sorry for going off topic and exploring fleets EI didn't operate).

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 67):
I don't want to turn this into a public mockery of the DAA, but there comes a time when bad planning of this nature becomes a threat to economic growth. Dublin Airport already has a bad reputation for congestion. I'm just wondering how long the govt can wait before it decides that things need to change radically. Will they wait until 2009? Or, will they recognise NOW that something needs to be done and start with the planning process for T3 ... keeping the DAA as far from it as possible?

I fully agree with you. And I fear we'll still be debating this in 2009 and much later if Bertie is still around and the DAA management team aren't all locked up for "stupidity" and replaced by people who at least have a slight idea of operating an airport. The DAA is a joke. DUB (while I love it probably just due to fond childhood memories) is a national disgrace. And Bertie there in charge of it all, what hope is there left for us?
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
Toulouse
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RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:14 pm

Just saw on rte.ie that former Aer Lingus group CEO until February 2000, Garry Cullen, is to become the new CEO at Aer Arann.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
planemanofnz
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RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:50 pm

Quoting Eikiwi (Reply 57):
DUB - NCL (daily)
DUB - TRN (3x per week. Days 2,4 & 7)
ORK - MAD (3x per week. Days 2,4 & 6)
ORK - ACE (2x per week. Days 2 & 6)
ORK - PRG (3x per week. Days 3,5 & 7).

I am really dissapointed. I was definately expecting more than this. What about Moscow, Istanbul, Athens, Cairo, Casablanca e.t.c. Not to mention long-haul! When I heard EI were announcing some new routes I honestly thought that the might expand into africa or russia with the 320's, but obviously I was wrong.
 
Provance
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RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:09 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 70):
I am really dissapointed. I was definately expecting more than this. What about Moscow, Istanbul, Athens, Cairo, Casablanca e.t.c. Not to mention long-haul! When I heard EI were announcing some new routes I honestly thought that the might expand into africa or russia with the 320's, but obviously I was wrong.

I would say "give them time".As yet they currently do not have the aircraft for these routes

I am very surprised by the NCL route. Directly in competition with FR on this route. Is it going to be another loss leader like the liverpool route. On these short routes EI just cannot compete in price with FR. The EI flight times dont even allow for connections to L/H operation.

Can someone explain the logic of this one to me please


Im also delighted to see the continual expansion at ORK, however I think a ORK-NCL would have been a much better option !
EI, FR, BD, RE, UA, XL, US,
 
jwmd123
Posts: 405
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 7:12 pm

RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:44 pm

I see the prices on the EI website for NCL are now 1 Euro each way.

I would say that is competing well with FR
 
smokeyrosco
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:21 am

RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:01 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 67):
towards the end (C43-45), during construction. At least one of those is a widebody gate

C41 - C43 and C45 are all wide body gates. Of course, with C41 if you have a widebody at it you lose gate C42... same as C43 loses C44 and C45 loses C46.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 67):
Taoiseach, Min. for Transport etc.

If they had of done it right in the first place the DAA would not be operating the new Terminal, not because competition is good but because the DAA doesn't know it's arse from it's elbow.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 67):
mockery of the DAA

Well it's fitting isn't it

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 67):
Will they wait until 2009

We won't be that lucky, they won't figure out they got it wrong they will just patch work it to make it work, but not to make it nice.



I've been most critical of Dublin Airport and the DAA, the place is a hole and like the new temporary Pier they just put in place, they are NOT creating more room for aircraft, they lost 3 stands just in order to make 8 stands that where remote now contact. the thing is, they are running out of room, cargo ops are a joke and the C pier as nice as it is was so so wrongly designed. Whats worse is we are going to lose the C pier to a new Terminal (or in my opinion just an extension to whats all ready there.

The plans for DUB are a joke and really really infuriates me, i can not continue on as it actually makes me mad. imbeciles.

Kaitak, if you never need me to sign ANY petition, just let me know.....

Also I asked above but it was missed, wasn't T3 suppose to be private?? something separate from the DAA??

Edit: Spelling

[Edited 2006-06-08 13:04:59]
John Hancock
 
kaitak
Topic Author
Posts: 9844
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RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:25 pm

Hi Smokeyrosco, thanks for your comments. The whole thing is indeed incredibly inept. To answer your question, first of all: yes, T3, should be private and that was the decision reached in the fudge, I mean agreement, reached last year.

I have proposed a solution whereby the DAA would be confined to the regulatory side of running an airport - i.e. airfield maintenance, ATC, parking, landscaping/general grounds maintenance - and then the terminals (along with marketing) would be tendered out, for operation by well known and respected airport operators, who could then pay rental/service charges to the DAA. Thus, the DAA would be removed from any responsibility for airport design, passenger or freight facilities and marketing.

As far as a petition is concerned: not sure if that would do much good, BUT remember that there is an election due next year.

Can I appeal to everyone involved in aviation at whatever level, to do all they can to make sure that aviation is not an also ran in the discussion of policies. If it is, we'll get what we deserve, which is what we have now: the inept being watched over by the disinterested.
 
eikiwi
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:12 pm

RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:59 pm

Quoting Provance (Reply 71):
I am very surprised by the NCL route. Directly in competition with FR on this route. Is it going to be another loss leader like the liverpool route. On these short routes EI just cannot compete in price with FR. The EI flight times dont even allow for connections to L/H operation.

Can someone explain the logic of this one to me please

It basically comes down to the fact that there is spare down-time for an A320 between 2 European flights. You can't fit in a 3rd rotation to Europe - (well, not where you would like to, anyway) ... so the a/c then is assigned to operate a flight to the UK. I think that NCL will do much better than LPL. Time will tell, I guess.

As for routes to Russia, Egypt etc etc etc, it is, as Provance says, a capacity issue. Will be good to see them if they eventuate though.

Hope that helps....  Wink

eikiwi.
NPC to IVC
 
Provance
Posts: 153
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 2:25 am

RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:06 pm

Quoting Eikiwi (Reply 57):
Well I'm delighted you got some rest!!

I'll tell you now, coz I know you've been waiting!!

DUB - NCL (daily)
DUB - TRN (3x per week. Days 2,4 & 7)
ORK - MAD (3x per week. Days 2,4 & 6)
ORK - ACE (2x per week. Days 2 & 6)
ORK - PRG (3x per week. Days 3,5 & 7).

Should display online in couple of hrs ......

when is the official announcement of these routes going to be. I still havent heard anything official
EI, FR, BD, RE, UA, XL, US,
 
EI787
Posts: 1230
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:06 am

RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:44 am

Quoting Provance (Reply 76):
when is the official announcement of these routes going to be. I still havent heard anything official

Here you go! Press Release from Aer Lingus:

Quote:
Aer Lingus announces five new routes for winter 2006, with additional capacity on existing routes from Dublin and Cork

Introductory fares from €1 one-way

Aer Lingus, "Celebrating 70 years of serving Ireland" today announced plans to introduce five new routes from Dublin and Cork to Europe in its winter schedule. This expansion brings to 11 the number of new routes introduced already in 2006, and supports the airline's growing European operation both to and from Ireland. As part of the expansion, Aer Lingus will operate an additional 34 flights a week, on existing and newly introduced routes, from Dublin and Cork to Europe. The airline will based an extra Airbus A320 aircraft in Cork airport later this month, representing 33% extra capacity.

New services commencing from October 2006 will include flights from Dublin to Turin and Newcastle and three new services from Cork to Madrid, Lanzarote and Prague. Existing summer flights from Dublin to Poznan and Seville and from Cork to Berlin, Birmingham, Faro and Tenerife will now operate year round services.

Announcing the expansion, Chief Executive, Dermot Mannion said, " The introduction of these new routes reaffirms Aer Lingus' commitment to providing direct, low fares access for Irish customers to new destinations as well as providing real growth opportunities in inbound tourism from emerging markets. Additional capacity and the extension of year round services on a number of existing Europeans routes is in direct response to strong customer demand.

"We are very encouraged with the level of growth on our network and particularly in the southern region where demand has increased significantly. This development is testament to the fact that Aer Lingus' service is second to none and we will continue to deliver on our proposition of low fares and greater choice of new destinations to convenient city airports for our customers " Mr Mannion concluded.

Special introductory one- way fares excluding taxes and charges are as follows:

Dublin to Newcastle €1
Dublin to Turin €25
Cork to Madrid €25
Cork to Prague €25
Cork to Lanzarote €49

Dublin - 07 June 2006
 
EI321
Posts: 5055
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RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:55 am

So that new A320 (or at least the capacity increase that it will bring to EI) is going to be based in Cork. Good timing too with the terminal opening around the same time, its a eally nice looking design, albeit too small. I can see an extension in the coming years.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 67):
Just wanted to share a few thoughts on it. Now, I'm no architect, but it occurs to me that
(a) the construction of this terminal will involve the loss of most of the gates at the new Pier C and certainly the ones towards the end (C43-45), during construction. At least one of those is a widebody gate, as EI A330s regularly use it, for example for DXB flights.

Well I am, so perhaps I can address some of these points.
Firstly I can tell you that there will likely be a big diference in what is shown in that presentation, and what actually gets built. The pictures are just a 'suggestion', known as a masterplan. They were not prepared by the architects who will actually design the terminal.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 67):
b) only one side of the new pier can take widebodies - and only five at that.

Again, pay no attention to what is shown in the pictures in terms of stands. I recall seeing the original images of what pier C would look like, and they depicted no less than six DC-10s parked at the gates! They will build a suitable breakdown. I believe that there is a good chance that we will see a dedicated pier for widebody flights only, likely in proxiomity to the US immigration area. So either a new US area will be built, or the existing pier B will be redesigned and designated as widebody only. Theres also a good chance of FR getting their very own pier like they do in Stansted, probably pier D.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 67):
(c) So, for the loss of the widebody gates at Pier C (they can't be used simultaneously with T2's pier), the airport only gains 5 w/b stands; effectively, that's a NET gain of only three - leaving aside the loss of the remote stands, used for cargo acft mainly.

see above

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 67):
(d) Think about that for the moment. The Taoiseach, Min. for Transport etc. were talking about a new terminal that could handle an extra 12m pax per annum and could handle growth for the next few years. And this is what we get.

In all fairness to them, Bertie and the ministers involvement ends with the granting of the go-ahead and deciding who runs the thing. They have no part in the specific design and so it should be. It should be left to proffessionals.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 67):
(e) The DAA recently announced that T2 would need to be expanded, because it was too small to deal with growth projections. Now, usually, when you plan a new terminal, you plan it to accommodate growth a good 10-15 years down the road, yet less than 6 months down the road, the DAA admits that its new design is not big enough! (I think the size of the building is somewhat academic if there isn't the physical space for new aircraft. There's virtually no expansion space at all.

What can I say, it is a bad choice for the location, considering that it is safe to presume that cargo will need a new home. A midfield site would be better but would also increase the cost significantly. It would also be more difficult from a planning point of view as there would be many complications. I am not ruling one out of course, they will have to bite the bullit sooner or later.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 67):
(f) The DAA cited as a reason for the need to increase the terminal size, that the planned growth of the two main Irish carriers was higher than expected. Now, how long have we known that EI wanted a fleet of around 14 widebodies and that Open Skies was on the way? Three, four years perhaps? That just doesn't wash!

I suspect that EIs l/h ambitions are the cause of the sudden need for a larger terminal. When the terminal was given the go-ahead, it was unclear whether the stopover would remain in place of not, or for how long. So now it will be gone soon, and this will obviously increase the number of US airlines opening routes to DUB, as well as the fact that we may see half a dozen new EI routes to the states. Similarly, EI were not publicising their exact l/h ambitions under walsh. No fleet number aspirations were revealed as such. Whether he had the same l/h ambitions as Mannion is questionable. Willie was more of a 'pile em high, sell em cheap' s/h fan.

[Edited 2006-06-08 18:58:53]
 
smokeyrosco
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:21 am

RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:39 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 78):
I recall seeing the original images of what pier C would look like, and they depicted no less than six DC-10s parked at the gates!

eeek, you mean it could be smaller? you can only fit 3 DC-10's on the C pier

Quoting EI321 (Reply 78):
probably pier D.

Not likely, Pier D will have 12 or 14 stands, and (although unconfirmed) Air bridges along one side of it. Peir D is also suppose to take the overflow from Pier C when it's closed to make way for T2 which means Pier D will probably be able to handle at least some widebodies.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 78):
In all fairness to them, Bertie and the ministers involvement ends with the granting of the go-ahead and deciding who runs the thing. They have no part in the specific design and so it should be. It should be left to proffessionals.

I disagree, in my opinion it's the fact we've left it the the professionals (IE the DAA) that we are in the state we are at the moment. I'm not saying Bertie would do any better I just know the DAA are going to mess this up completely.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 78):
A midfield site would be better

Untrue, this means you have to ferry all the cargo and equipment up and down from mid field past all the terminals. A completely new cargo 'terminal' should be built on the opposite side of the of the proposed runway and serviceair cargo, DHL, TNT and all the others that are based in DUB should be moved there and space should be made for the likes of Fedex and anyone else that wishes to use the facilities.
John Hancock
 
kaitak
Topic Author
Posts: 9844
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:29 pm

Good news this morning on Open Skies.

Contrary to expectations and the old joke (congress is the opposite to progress), the US Congress has decided not to block moves to expand ownership of US carriers, for which CO - among others - had been lobbying.

Although not directly part of the Open Skies deal, the EU was holding back until this matter was sorted out. Now, the question is: is there sufficient will on both sides to push forward. The original plan was for GWB to sign the deal at a summit in Vienna next month; that still seems a little too ambitious, although if this is the only stumbling block and it's now out of the way, it could still be done.

That said, even if there isn't the ceremonial signing next month, things could still progress sufficiently quickly to allow the Open Skies deal to take effect in November as planned and that's really far more important. With EI's privatisation coming up and political doubts (due to the proximity of the next election) about key aspects of aviation policy, this could be the spur to push things along. Let's hope the whole Open Skies process is given a major confidence boost by this.

http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1149809760.html
 
EI787
Posts: 1230
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:06 am

RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:33 am

All World Cup Matches are to be broadcast live at Dublin Airport:

Quote:
World Cup Matches broadcast live at Dublin Airport

Soccer fans travelling from Dublin Airport will now have the opportunity to see all World Cup matches live from their Boarding Gates while they wait for their flight to depart.

The Dublin Airport Authority have installed fifteen new 42 inch LCD television screens in time for the World Cup kick-off.

The screens have been placed at Boarding Gates in Piers A, B and C and in the Arrivals Hall for meeters and greeters.

A nice touch by DAA!
 
smokeyrosco
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:21 am

RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:07 am

Aye, I seen the Flat Screens they installed, nice job this may stop people drinking in the bar watching the games and not hearing when they are being called and delaying flights.

Edit: I also read an article in one of the Business papers i picked up today, apparently EI have now said they there will pay over 100 million euro into the EI pension fund.

[Edited 2006-06-09 18:09:18]
John Hancock
 
kaitak
Topic Author
Posts: 9844
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:00 am

Sad news again this week for Shannon; after losing WO, they've now lost Easyjet, which (according to a thread on PPRUNE) will be dropping its Irish routes from September.

Probably not a great surprise, because they had threatened to do so last year and you can bet that FR was making life difficult for them.

Personally, I'm sad to see them go; I flew LGW-SNN-LGW with EZY a few times and they were excellent; now, I'm at the mercy of FR again. Oh dear.
 
EI787
Posts: 1230
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:06 am

RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:11 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 83):
they've now lost Easyjet

It looks that way. You cannot book a SNN-LGW flight on easyjet.com after September 30th.

It's a pity. I'd love for Easyjet to expand further in Ireland. I suppose it's just the fact that this is pretty much Ryanair's homeground!!
 
smokeyrosco
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:21 am

RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:34 am

Quoting EI787 (Reply 84):
I'd love Easyjet to expand further in Ireland

Me too, but FR won't let them, as much as FR has neglected Ireland up until last year anytime U2 made a move FR had to spoil it.

And there is one thing I have to say about the WO flights, I hope all those hippies are happy, they have now lost a multimillion Euro contract..... now Shannon will have even a harder time standing on it's on runways! When Shannon becomes a ghost town I hope they remember why.

Until proper infrastructure (IE motorways (not roads) and a rail like right to the terminal from Sligo through Galway and right down to Cork and Kerry) SNN is going to find it increasingly difficult to attract new routes or even expansions on existing routes.

They may even lose routes to Cork and it's over priced Terminal (makes me think of the C Pier)......

I think need to goto my happy place again.
John Hancock
 
EI321
Posts: 5055
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:56 pm

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 79):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 78):
A midfield site would be better

Untrue, this means you have to ferry all the cargo and equipment up and down from mid field past all the terminals. A completely new cargo 'terminal' should be built on the opposite side of the of the proposed runway and serviceair cargo, DHL, TNT and all the others that are based in DUB should be moved there and space should be made for the likes of Fedex and anyone else that wishes to use the facilities.

I was refering to a midfield site for the new passenger terminal, not cargo.

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 79):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 78):
probably pier D.

Not likely, Pier D will have 12 or 14 stands, and (although unconfirmed) Air bridges along one side of it. Peir D is also suppose to take the overflow from Pier C when it's closed to make way for T2 which means Pier D will probably be able to handle at least some widebodies.

pier d has been designed from day 1 as primarily a LCC pier. It will of course take the slack from the loss of C but I believe that FR will one day have their own facility at the airport. Since when are airbridges going on it? Thats the first ive heard of that.

http://www.dublinairport.com/about-us/airport-development/Pier_D.html

[Edited 2006-06-10 13:00:55]
 
smokeyrosco
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:21 am

RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:31 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 86):
I was refering to a midfield site for the new passenger terminal, not cargo.

Apologies, I took what you typed a different way.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 86):
pier d has been designed from day 1 as primarily a LCC pier. It will of course take the slack from the loss of C but I believe that FR will one day have their own facility at the airport. Since when are airbridges going on it? Thats the first ive heard of that.

http://www.dublinairport.com/about-u....html

When planning permission was originally granted for Pier D it was granted with around 20 conditions. The DAA or Aer Rianta at the time originally sought planning permission for I believe 12 gates with the option for air bridges to be installed if they where needed. Only the 6 gates on the northern side of the pier where given permission to install air bridges as on the southern side it is thought that air-bridges would obstructed the view of the old terminal building (that building is starting to lose it's charm with me), but An Bord Pleanála overturned the decision and granted approval for 12 operational Air-bridges to be built should the DAA decide they are necessary. The pier itself will also be two stories which is also not ideal for FR anyway.

The latest i heard about it is that they where going to install the airbridges to take the slack from the C pier in particular with regards widebodies. on a busy day i've seen upto 7 wide bodies on the C pier (not all at once). CO's 75's with winglets take up two stands, it has to be brought in on the same line as a widebody as the winglets increase the wingspan to just over the DAA's safe distance for C Pier stands.

[Edited 2006-06-10 18:51:20]
John Hancock
 
kaitak
Topic Author
Posts: 9844
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:38 am

I had always thought that Pier D would be a low-cost pier, but there you go. I guess if they had found a better place to shoehorn that new terminal in, they wouldn't be losing widebody gates. The whole thing just smacks of risible ineptitude.

And what's going to happen with cargo? There doesn't seem to be anything happening with this and with Open Skies now likely to take effect in November after all (following the US Congress vote last Wednesday), we will actually have Open Skies on cargo from Day One. Tell me, just what exactly has the DAA done to prepare itself for this, let alone the need to develop direct air cargo links with Asia.

What I don't think has really sunk in at the DAA is that with jet fuel having effectively tripled in price over the past few years and Asian airlines having spent billions on new cargo aircraft, they want to - HAVE TO - use these as efficiently as possible. And the DAA prevents this - and the govt, through inaction and disinterest, acquiesces in this. We hear so often, from bank economists, the ESRI and others, about the importance of competitiveness and exports; we know the govt has an "Asia strategy", yet this document has absolutely no reference to air transport links!

However, back to pax - not that the picture is that much brighter. I don't buy the excuse that the DAA didn't know that EI had significant growth plans; we've known this for years and we've known well before T2 was announced that there were ambitions for around 14 widebodies and we knew that Open Skies was on the way, so anyone who had even half a clue about plans for Irish aviation, should have known this and even if they didn't, the govt should have maintained sufficient oversight of what it recognises as a critical part of our infrastructure, to make sure they did.

What now? The reality is that the mistakes have been made; the DAA is committed to T2. It can't go anywhere else for a new terminal now, but what the govt needs to do is to start planning for T3. Most of all, however, the handling of DUB over the past few years needs to be made an election issue. And I sincerely hope other parties will do that. It's been nothing short of disgraceful and irresponsible.
 
smokeyrosco
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:21 am

RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Sun Jun 11, 2006 4:58 am

The more i think about it, the more i think existing A pier suits FR, at the moment it has the same amount of stands as the new D Pier is suppose to have and there are plans in place (not sure about planning permission or when it's likely to happen, to grow the A pier straight out towards 16/34.

on another note, I am curious if there are plans to take 16/34 out of service when the new runway is in place.

EDIT: From what I understand of the planning of the new D Pier it will be similar to the C pier but the arrivals will be on the ground floor and departures will be on the first floor, also it will be double sided (something that should have been done with the C Pier). I assume this may work to FR's advantage as they could deplane everyone on steps and just simply not use the Air-bridge. Like the C (and A pier) there will be a road between the stands and the gates.

[Edited 2006-06-10 22:05:31]
John Hancock
 
HS748
Posts: 621
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:01 am

RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:06 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 86):
pier d has been designed from day 1 as primarily a LCC pier. It will of course take the slack from the loss of C

What's happening to Pier C? I thought that was the newest one. The plans on DUB's website aren't very clear.
 
smokeyrosco
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:21 am

RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:12 am

Quoting HS748 (Reply 90):
What's happening to Pier C? I thought that was the newest one. The plans on DUB's website aren't very clear.

The C Pier is the site where the DAA wants to build the proposed Terminal 2, an awful lot is still unclear about T2, I believe all they have is an idea yet, I really cannot see how T2 is really going to work with the cargo ops where they at the moment.
John Hancock
 
kaitak
Topic Author
Posts: 9844
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:51 am

Michael O'Leary is interviewed in tomorrow's Sunday Business Post and has a few interesting comments to make:

- He's not stepping down in 2008, but will do so shortly after FR has achieved world domination. So, 2009 then?
- The airline is looking at a small charge for priority boarding - only a € or two.
- The airline is looking further afield, at the possibility of lengthening its reach and benefiting from Open Skies agreements; this is more a medium term plan. (So, we're talking 787s then?)
- The DAA should just go ahead and put up the tent without planning permission.

Here it is, for your enjoyment:

http://www.thepost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqid=14933-qqqx=1.asp

Incidentally, the quiet, reserved gentleman from the midlands was also interviewed by the Times travel supplement about the contribution to global warming, where he pointed out that even by 2050, aviation will be contributing only 5% of worldwide CO2. He said that the main culprit was SUVs and asserted the contribution of aviation to the economy. Fair comments, I thought.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4371
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:10 am

Quoting EI787 (Reply 84):
I'd love for Easyjet to expand further in Ireland.

I want them to fly to Derry! I really hope that they don't pull out of Ireland!
 
kaitak
Topic Author
Posts: 9844
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:24 pm

According to Just Planes, EI has agreed the lease of a new A320 from ILFC, for delivery to the airline next May; this is in addition to another A320, due for delivery in the near future. The delivery of the new aircraft, which I'm going to assume is EI-DEU, will being EI's A320 fleet to 23, plus 6 A321s.

We may yet see more deals with ILFC later this year (A32Xs, rather than widebodies, although once privatisation takes place, widebodies will be a possibility).
 
kaitak
Topic Author
Posts: 9844
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Sun Jun 11, 2006 6:57 pm

Today's Sunday Tribune reports that Ryanair is to launch another six routes from Dublin next December. The airline is waiting for the new check in facility to be opened in the basement.

No hint as to which these might be, but one can take a few guesses:

Somewhere in Morocco (Marrakech?)
Marseilles - new base opening later this year
Stockholm - Skavsta
Somewhere else in Poland
Irish domestic routes: Kerry and Shannon?
 
EI321
Posts: 5055
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:19 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 95):
Irish domestic routes: Kerry and Shannon?

I think Belfast could be possible
 
HS748
Posts: 621
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:01 am

RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:24 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 96):
I think Belfast could be possible

Really? Is there a market for DUB/BFS? Has this route ever been operated?
 
kaitak
Topic Author
Posts: 9844
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:27 pm

It has been operated in the past, by Jersey European and later, Aer Arann. It's never been a success. I just don't see it as being a route for FR.

Shannon and Kerry would seem to be far more likely. If Galway had a longer runway, that might also be a possibility.
 
pelican22
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:56 am

RE: Irish Aviation - Cuid A Cuig ...

Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:57 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 98):



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 98):
It has been operated in the past, by Jersey European and later, Aer Arann. It's never been a success. I just don't see it as being a route for FR.

Avair and Capital Airlines also operated on the route for a while.

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