UA To Buy 777-300ER/New Routes

dc10s4ever · Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:17 pm

I just heard from a old college friend who is now in senior management with UAL. He told me UA will aquire 5 new 777-300ER's and innaugurate new service from IAD to NRT and DEL. The NRT slot will be the old AA/SJC-NRT slot moved to IAD (that one got claimed fast) and new IADDEL service.

Skip17 · Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:22 pm

Sure hope its true. IAD-NRT is way overdue. IAD-DEL have high yields as well. This is all if what you say really happens. Great if it does.

bistro1200 · Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:24 pm

I have a hard time believing that. First, a new fleet with only five shells does not give you 2 new daily transpac trips. We're talking 3x weekly for both routes at best, given that UA doesn't have 777 maintenance in IAD. Second, DEL would be far better off departing ORD than IAD. Third, DEL is not the preferred city in India at the moment. Try Bangalore or Hyderabad, where a lot of the business traffic is headed. Fourth, ANA flies IADNRT presently, right? That would be very dilutional to the ANA codeshare, as well as any UA flight.

UAL-Fan · Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:26 pm

I don't think they have made any $$ recently.......how do they plan to pay for this?

Cory6188 · Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:53 pm

UA has bigger problems to deal with right now to get their financial house in order before they go buying 773's. I would take this one with a grain of salt the size of Mt. Everest; while it might be nice, it seems like a ridiculously huge financial investment for a company that is still trying to get on stable ground.

kc135topboom · Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:55 pm

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Thread starter):
UA will aquire 5 new 777-300ER's and innaugurate new service from IAD to NRT and DEL.

That sounds like the new flights are still 2 years from now. It will take at least that long to get the new builds from Boeing. But, new B-777-300ERs do have the range for IAD-NRT as it is 6753nm, using 240 minute ETOPS.

Quoting Bistro1200 (Reply 2):
First, a new fleet with only five shells does not give you 2 new daily transpac trips.

Good point. Perhaps they will start, then supplement the B-777-300ER service with B-777-200ERs or B-747-400s?

Quoting UAL-Fan (Reply 3):
I don't think they have made any $$ recently.......how do they plan to pay for this?

Good question. Perhaps UA should ask Airbus to give them 10-12 A-340-500/-600s for these routes?

boeingfever777 · Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:13 pm

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Thread starter):
The NRT slot will be the old AA/SJC-NRT slot moved to IAD (that one got claimed fast) and new IADDEL service.

Doubt that... AA giving up there slot? No way. I think they will use it for another westcoast route.

Quoting Skip17 (Reply 1):
Sure hope its true. IAD-NRT is way overdue.

Overdue? NH #1 is IAD-NRT and why the hell would they do that when they co-share with NH on this flight? Is demand that great for a second daily n/s?

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
Good question. Perhaps UA should ask Airbus to give them 10-12 A-340-500/-600s for these routes?

I was thinking that too. LMAO rotfl

At 237-264.5$ a piece UA would have to bargin Boeing pretty damn hard to get a sweet deal to get some of these a/c. With 777 sales going good i'm sure Boeing is not needing to cut that deep to sell the a/c and slots for production.

UA772IAD · Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:18 pm

I have a hard time believing this too.
First off, we have heard Tilton say time and time again, that as part of reorganization, UA will not take delivery/buy new planes until 2010, at the earliest. Second, NRT-IAD is already served by ANA with a 772ER. Both airlines are in Star Alliance and both carriers operating this flight would prove to be a complete overlapping disaster. There isn't even capacity for a 744 on this route, so why would there be 773 capacity?
Also, while DEL might happen, soon (probably out of IAD), that flight would be operated with a 744.

jetdeltamsy · Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:20 pm

Quoting UAL-Fan (Reply 3):
I don't think they have made any $$ recently.......how do they plan to pay for this?

Agreed. They're still posting losses of about $1 billion per year. There won't be any money to buy anything until the black ink starts to flow.

kc135topboom · Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:24 pm

Doesn't UA have a problem with buying an aircraft with GE engines? Isn't the GE-90-115 the exclusive engine on the B-777-300ER?

LAXintl · Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:27 pm

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 6):
Doubt that... AA giving up there slot? No way. I think they will use it for another westcoast route.

AA is vacating the slot... Here is an excerpt of a AA email announcement.

"The NRT slot will return to a pool to be utilized by any airline. The cities of SFO, LAX, ORD, and JFK have very tight restrictions on flights to Japan and the slot cannot be transferred."

boeingfever777 · Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:30 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9):
Isn't the GE-90-115 the exclusive engine on the B-777-300ER?

Yes you are correct on that. The GE90-115B is the only engine offering on the 773ER. http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777family/pf/pf_lrproduct.html

uadc8contrail · Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:33 pm

KC135,
after GE helped out on the bk financing i would bet ual would forget about that incident in sux!....any one here that has access to rich delaneys week in review???he was quoted not to long ago as saying that ual was going to get 777s by the end of the year per senior ual people!...i hope this is true

yyz717 · Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:55 pm

UA remains a massive carrier and they WILL be ordering vast numbers of widebodies in the future. It might be worth Boeing's while to offer them a sweetheart deal on a smallish fleet of 773ER to retain them in the 777 camp, to reduce the likelihood of them turning to Airbus for the A380/A350/A370 at a later stage.

bayareapilot · Sun Jun 04, 2006 3:02 pm

While I agree we should be very sceptical of these types of rumours, this certainly seems feasible. UA could lease the planes. ILFC has ordered 25 777-300ERs. UA might prefer IAD-DEL over ORD-DEL to avoid going head-to-head against AA on that route. Even with the NH codeshare, I'd bet there's a non-trivial number of people flying WAS-NRT on UA and making a connection. Both Mileage Plus and corporate contracts can incent people to stay on UA metal.

uadc8contrail · Sun Jun 04, 2006 3:12 pm

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 8):
Quoting UAL-Fan (Reply 3):
I don't think they have made any $$ recently.......how do they plan to pay for this?

Agreed. They're still posting losses of about $1 billion per year. There won't be any money to buy anything until the black ink starts to flow.

Jetdeltamsy,
where has it been posted anywhere that ual is still posting losses of about 1bln per yer????please post that link ok!......airplane financiers are no different than that of a auto financier.....to get the deal done you will do what ever it takes to get the deal done period...so ual did not post a net/gross what ever you want to call it profit in Q1...if ual or any bk carrier wants new airplanes...there will be someone out there that will finance them to get the deal done....agree that glenn is on record that ual will not get any new/used birds till who knows when but taking his word as gospel is crazy.....tomorrow is a new day and ual could get some new/used birds

3201 · Sun Jun 04, 2006 3:24 pm

Quoting Bistro1200 (Reply 2):
First, a new fleet with only five shells does not give you 2 new daily transpac trips.

They could easily do IAD-DEL and IAD-NRT daily with only 3 aircraft. For example:

Depart IAD 12:20pm Monday, arrive NRT 3:20pm Tuesday
Depart NRT 5:10pm Tuesday, arrive IAD 4:40pm Tuesday
Depart IAD 9:55pm Tuesday (note 5 hour ground time for slack!), arrive DEL 8:45pm Wednesday
Depart DEL 1:00am Thursday (another 4 hours on the ground), arrive IAD 6:45am Thursday, ready to do the Thursday departure to NRT after another 5.5 hour ground time

PhilSquares · Sun Jun 04, 2006 3:37 pm

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 15):
where has it been posted anywhere that ual is still posting losses of about 1bln per yer????

Here's their SEC filing http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/...dcn=0000100517-06-000031&Type=HTML

Interesting to note, their operational loss was $119 million in the last quarter, but the net loss was $223 million.

Also, long term debt was at $8.85 billion. That figure excludes lease obligations.

Jamake1 · Sun Jun 04, 2006 3:43 pm

United isn't going to acquire any aircraft until at least 2009. Senior management has repeatedly stressed that until such time, the company has only 460 aircraft to work with. There are no plans for acquiring aircraft and the company's focus is on improving operating margins. Period.

bayareapilot · Sun Jun 04, 2006 3:48 pm

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 15):
where has it been posted anywhere that ual is still posting losses of about 1bln per yer????please post that link ok!

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=UAUA&annual

2003 net loss: $2.8 billion
2004 net loss: $1.7 billion
2005 net loss: $21.2 billion

While I'm a UA FF and generally like the company, saying they're losing a billion a year is being kind based on their recent track record.

[Edited 2006-06-04 08:49:42]

uadc8contrail · Sun Jun 04, 2006 4:58 pm

Quoting BayAreaPilot (Reply 19):
Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 15):
where has it been posted anywhere that ual is still posting losses of about 1bln per yer????please post that link ok!

UA&annual" target=_blank>http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=UAUA&annual

2003 net loss: $2.8 billion
2004 net loss: $1.7 billion
2005 net loss: $21.2 billion

While I'm a UA FF and generally like the company, saying they're losing a billion a year is being kind based on their recent track record.

BayAreaPilot,jamake and PHIL....
THESE numbers are based on ch11 years!!!!!!!

Lets assume that what jamake has stated (senior mgmt) is not going to get any more planes and LETS BELEIVE that quote ok.....what was the mantra that ual was spewing coming out of bk and the latest Q1 filings??????UAL IS GOING TO POST A NET PROFIT FOR THE YEAR!!!!(06)...based on all these arm chair QBs assumptions what is ual going to do with all the cash that will be making in 06???

VHVXB · Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:04 pm

Quoting BayAreaPilot (Reply 19):
2003 net loss: $2.8 billion
2004 net loss: $1.7 billion
2005 net loss: $21.2 billion

How the hell does an airline make $21 Billion loss with this cost cutting i hear about.

HAJFlyer · Sun Jun 04, 2006 8:20 pm

I sure hope we will get them here in ZRH on the Star Alliance intra hub operations between ZRH and IAD or ORD, but I guess chances are not that great even considering that SR managed to fill a daily B743 from Zurich to the windy city in the past.

NWDC10 · Sun Jun 04, 2006 9:26 pm

I like UA and i'm not putting UA down but a talking bird told me that UA will give complete controll over to AA at ORD in "exchange" AA will give complete controll over to UA at DFW. I simply don't believe this either. UA needs to start making money/get out of debt before they can do anything major like purchasing 777-300ER's. Rhumors may not mean anything but the truth and facts do. Robert NWDC10

Cory6188 · Sun Jun 04, 2006 9:26 pm

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 21):
How the hell does an airline make $21 Billion loss with this cost cutting i hear about.

It's kind of hard to understand, but a large portion of the loss comes from bankruptcy writeoffs and such. It's all on "paper", so to speak, the real numbers you have to look at are operational profits and losses.

dutchjet · Sun Jun 04, 2006 9:36 pm

Oh yeah, this is happening......there is no proof, confirmation or source to support any of this, why is this thread continuing?

Think about this - UA is a huge airline (even after its downsizing)...what large airline operates a subfleet of FIVE aircraft with non-common engines? It makes no sense from a financial or operational point of view. End of discussion.

If and when UA places an order for aircraft, look for atleast twenty airframes to start. When will UA be in the financial position to place such orders, that remains to be determined.

UnitedTristar · Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:25 pm

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 21):
How the hell does an airline make $21 Billion loss with this cost cutting i hear about.

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 26):
It's kind of hard to understand, but a large portion of the loss comes from bankruptcy writeoffs and such. It's all on "paper", so to speak, the real numbers you have to look at are operational profits and losses.

If you read this article it actually says that United wrote down a $22 Billion dollar gain for the first quarter this year. Its the paper losses and gains that the bankruptcy process produces.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...story?track=rss&ctrack=1&cset=true

Quote:
On paper, the airline reported a $22.63 billion profit for the quarter,due to accounting for the settlement during bankruptcy of billions of dollars in claims against United. Creditors received only a fraction of what they claimed they were owed, and that difference was reflected in the accounting.

-m

OldAeroGuy · Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:32 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
But, new B-777-300ERs do have the range for IAD-NRT as it is 6753nm, using 240 minute ETOPS.

180 min ETOPS will work just fine and I think you'll find its 5868 nm rather than 6753 sm if you look again.

Stitch · Sun Jun 04, 2006 11:09 pm

One advantage UA has over NH at IAD is the connecting traffic. While NH gets connecting passengers via codeshare, UA might have more flexability in scheduling the flight to make it more palatable to customers.

There have also been rumors (which I believe are baseless) that UA will abandon JFK-NRT to NH in return for NH giving up IAD-NRT to UA.

hiflyer · Sun Jun 04, 2006 11:38 pm

Gee...as always when it comes to an air carrier finances the partisans of other carriers jump right in.. Smile

Reply 26 answers the questions. It is the end result of a long chapt 11 reorganization which deliberately (IMHO) produced some very poor numbers with the end result of over 7b in tax credits. (NW and DL are chasing those same credits now...and perhaps due to ownership rules the HP/US merger had to have US survive to continue to qualify for the US credits from their filing)

UA can buy aircraft if they desire but all public statements have been adamant that they are not taking any until end of the decade....and again IMHO may be a slight case of misdirection. And yes...obviously the UA partnership with Pratt will go bye bye on any new widebody order as Pratt withdraws significantly from that market.

FYI may I suggest the header of this thread needs to be changed to add the word 'rumor' to it?

planebuff · Sun Jun 04, 2006 11:47 pm

You would think--they were the first airline in service with the 777--I read that United was the mother; MD-11 its father. Smile

mcdu · Sun Jun 04, 2006 11:53 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9):
Doesn't UA have a problem with buying an aircraft with GE engines? Isn't the GE-90-115 the exclusive engine on the B-777-300ER?

The last I heard Tilton say about GE was that UA had setteled all the issues with GE over 232 and was now in a position to buy from whoever gives us good deal. In fact when asked if we would be looking for Airbus or Boeing in the future he reitereated, "the best deal". Along those lines I have heard from some reliable sources that an airplane order was not out of the question. The word from the Tilton meeting when he spoke was we have more opportunities than airframes and that is a good thing. The source about the airplane order spoke of 777-LR's not 300's and that it would be tied with a Boeing exclusivity contract. Put UAL in the pipeline for 787's and for the 797 or whatever the follow on to the current 737NG would be called. Supposedly Boeing has been anxious to lock up UAL in an exclusive contract......Again I am only going by the word from some guy at EXO, I have no further information than what has been passed to me.

The source said Boeing has been making some innovative pitches to UAL on a weekly basis to get them to buy something. He also said the A320's were old technology and that Airbus has wasted too much effort on the 380 to have anything in the fleet offering comparable to Boeing in the near future and it makes sense for UA to hitch their future to the advances being made in composites and fuel efficiency at Boeing.

Sorry for the long ramble.

roseflyer · Sun Jun 04, 2006 11:55 pm

First of all this is an unsubstantiated rumor. Some of these rumors do come true, so it is never a good idea to just flame the poster, but I'm still doubtful of this. It is based on two assumptions. First of all United gets the slot from AA. Slots to NRT are different than LHR since each city is limited in how many flights can be offered. AA cannot just move the slot anywhere it chooses. So it is possible that UA can get the slot. Second of all there has not been much talk of UA taking new planes, so that is a big rumor too.

I'd love this to happen, but I'll take it with a grain of salt.

Quoting Bistro1200 (Reply 2):
I have a hard time believing that. First, a new fleet with only five shells does not give you 2 new daily transpac trips. We're talking 3x weekly for both routes at best, given that UA doesn't have 777 maintenance in IAD.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Singapore Airlines operates SIN-EWR and SIN-LAX daily with just five A345s and are longer routes. United has similar if not better fleet utilization than SQ. The flights could probably be done with four planes if the scheduling was tight (and no continuation from NRT, even I doubt that would happen). 3201 gives a schedule for using three planes, and the forth would be in for maintenance. But in reality five is a good number for this trip.

Quoting Bistro1200 (Reply 2):
Second, DEL would be far better off departing ORD than IAD.

IAD-DEL would not compete against AA out of ORD. The two flights are almost exactly the same length (with IAD-DEL being 20 miles longer). However ORD would be better for connecting traffic. IAD is farther for people from the west coast. I'd personally prefer to see SFO-DEL, but that goes right over the heart of the Himalaya Mountains and with the routes that the plane would have to take, the flight would probably go past the range of anything but the 772LR. With the extra range of the 777-300ER, Bombay/Mumbai becomes a possibility along with Bangalore, Hyderabad or Madras/Channai.

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 6):
NH #1 is IAD-NRT and why the hell would they do that when they co-share with NH on this flight? Is demand that great for a second daily n/s?

Could it be possible that ANA would prefer to use its assets elsewhere like China? The Japanese Airlines have been shrinking in the United States.

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 7):
Second, NRT-IAD is already served by ANA with a 772ER

I believe ANA uses a 777-300ER on the route.

[Edited 2006-06-04 16:59:30]

pnqiad · Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:02 am

Does any UA have aircraft (including possible future 777ER) have range to do IAD-BOM? Considering that DEL has 2 non-stops from U.S.. I would think that would be a lucrative market - offering not just BOM crowd a non-stop but possibility of 1 stop connections on 9W to cities around India.

hiflyer · Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:05 am

mcdu

that would make sense as the follow-on to the 737 will not be avail until 2010 at the earliers which fits Tilton's timeline.

AMR screwed up with the 738 when they elected not to get 777 cockpit commonality....it is available....but in AMR's defense there were too many fleet types between the two.

I will wager that UA does not make the same error...whatever comes will be able to significantly reduce training costs by a very large factor. Boeing lost a lot of market to Airbus in the begining due to that one issue....and that was when carriers were not counting pennies like they are now.

N174UA · Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:25 am

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 31):
In fact when asked if we would be looking for Airbus or Boeing in the future he reitereated, "the best deal".

The bidding war between Boeing and Airbus for a new order from Iberia is an interesting study, which I read about in my business strategy class this quarter. Ultimately, the business went to Airbus to provide A346's, but how Iberia's CFO (Enrique Dupuy de Lome) got both companies to meet his price guidelines is interesting to say the least. Not sure what day, but it appeared in The Wall Street Journal in 2004 I think. It's called "Airbus and Boeing Duke it Out to Win Lucrative Iberia Deal".

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 31):
He also said the A320's were old technology and that Airbus has wasted too much effort on the 380 to have anything in the fleet offering comparable to Boeing in the near future and it makes sense for UA to hitch their future to the advances being made in composites and fuel efficiency at Boeing.

Let's hope UA stays with Boeing for the widebodies, but perhaps returns to Boeing for narrowbodies when the A320s reach their twilight years. I believe the 787 is designed to have PW's, right? If so, I think UAL will more than likely place a large order for that aircraft, rather than go with 773's.

[Edited 2006-06-04 17:27:25]

dc10s4ever · Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:33 am

To give more details - its actually 6 777-300ers that are already in production that are not being taken by another Star Alliance carrier ANA. ANA just announced service ORD-NRT (flying the route with UA) opening the door for UA to also fly IAD-NRT alongside NH- Hence the need for the new 777's.

dutchjet · Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:37 am

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 36):
To give more details - its actually 6 777-300ers that are already in production that are not being taken by another Star Alliance carrier ANA. ANA just announced service ORD-NRT (flying the route with UA) opening the door for UA to also fly IAD-NRT alongside NH- Hence the need for the new 777's.

Lets see if I can understand what you are saying:

UA is going to take six 773ERS that were ordered by ANA.

ANA is going to sell the 773ERs to UA off of the assembly line.

UA and ANA are both going to fly the ORD-NRT route......and now UA and ANA are both going to fly the IAD-ORD route.

I am not holding my breathe.

[Edited 2006-06-04 17:49:55]

roseflyer · Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:45 am

Quoting N174UA (Reply 35):
I believe the 787 is designed to have PW's, right? If so, I think UAL will more than likely place a large order for that aircraft, rather than go with 773's.

No Pratt & Whitney is not producing any engine for the 787. It is no surprise that United favors PW since they use to be part of the same company. It is no coincidence that Pratt & Whitney is owned by United Technologies which shares the same name with United Airlines. However since PW is not in the market for some newer planes as the manufacturers have started to favor offering less than three engine choices, United will be buying GE or RR.

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 36):
To give more details - its actually 6 777-300ers that are already in production that are not being taken by another Star Alliance carrier ANA. ANA just announced service ORD-NRT (flying the route with UA) opening the door for UA to also fly IAD-NRT alongside NH- Hence the need for the new 777's.

Interesting. I am surpised to hear about such a tight cooperation. I did not know how much ANA and United cooperate with each other. UA and LH are heavily intertwined, but having ANA sell planes to United is a bit of a shocker. It will be interesting to see if this comes true. Can United operate those 777-300ERs more effectively than ANA?

jacobin777 · Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:01 am

Quoting N174UA (Reply 35):
The bidding war between Boeing and Airbus for a new order from Iberia is an interesting study, which I read about in my business strategy class this quarter. Ultimately, the business went to Airbus to provide A346's, but how Iberia's CFO (Enrique Dupuy de Lome) got both companies to meet his price guidelines is interesting to say the least. Not sure what day, but it appeared in The Wall Street Journal in 2004 I think. It's called "Airbus and Boeing Duke it Out to Win Lucrative Iberia Deal".

here is some recent quotes from Tilton which might help..

fair use excerpt*:

"ZURICH, Switzerland -- Fresh out of bankruptcy, United Airlines, the world's second-largest airline, is not going to buy new jets from The Boeing Co. or Airbus any time soon.

But when it does, Boeing's 787 Dreamliner would be a good addition to United's fleet, as might Boeing's bigger jumbo jet, the 747-8, said Glenn Tilton, United's chief executive.

"We are really interested in how the 787 technology would play in the United fleet," Tilton said in an interview with the Seattle P-I.

His airline has had preliminary talks with Boeing.

........."When we start beating the financial plan, then we can start having serious discussions (about buying new jets)," he added.

.....Tilton called the 747 the airline's "workhorse," especially on routes across the Pacific Ocean.

............Tilton said the bigger and more efficient 747-8 could eventually turn up in United's fleet, too.

........."I have not been able to see it," Tilton said when asked if the A380 has a future with United."

*-source:seattlepi.com

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 36):
ANA just announced service ORD-NRT (flying the route with UA) opening the door for UA to also fly IAD-NRT alongside NH- Hence the need for the new 777's.

UnitedTristar · Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:06 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 38):
Can United operate those 777-300ERs more effectively than ANA?

Well UA's pilot contract pays the same for 777 crews as it does for 747 crews. This makes the -300 more appealing then the 747 due to its fuel efficiency.

I would be shocked if they did IAD DEL before SFO DEL. That would make alot more money for them.

-m

[Edited 2006-06-04 18:29:52]

burnsie28 · Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:07 am

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 6):
Doubt that... AA giving up there slot? No way. I think they will use it for another westcoast route.

I heard they will for-go their NRT slot.

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Thread starter):
The NRT slot will be the old AA/SJC-NRT slot moved to IAD (that one got claimed fast)

The Japanese government/ NRT Airport Authority (one of the two) decides who gets those slots, from what I heard UA isn't even using all of their slots now, meaning they could lose them if they go un-used. NW on the otherhand is using their slots, and if so desired I'm sure are more likely give it to NW seeing how they are using their slots.

boeingfever777 · Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:32 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 41):
I heard they will for-go their NRT slot.

Who will go for the slot? I'm just suprised that AA gave it up and did not try to fill the slot.

usairways85 · Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:34 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 32):
I believe ANA uses a 777-300ER on the route.

Airline All Nippon Airways
Flight Number 2
Departure City (Airport) Tokyo, Japan (RJAA)
Departure Time 06/04/2006 11:25 AM
Arrival City (Airport) Washington, DC (IAD)
Arrival Time 06/04/2006 10:51 AM
Remaining Flight Time 00:00
Aircraft Type Boeing 777-200
Current Altitude 0 feet
Current Groundspeed 0 mph
Flight Status Arrived

Just like to correct myself. This flt is currently scheduled as a 772, but eff. 7/1 till 10/28 this flt will be scheduled as a 773

[Edited 2006-06-04 18:38:41]

andrej · Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:15 am

Hello,

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 17):
Also, long term debt was at $8.85 billion. That figure excludes lease obligations.

Long term debt does not have to be a bad thing, IF a company is able to repay it. Therefore, if we are analyzing company's debt, we should also look at its Times-interest earned ratio along with the debt-ratio to get a better picture of company's (UAL in this case) debt.

Cheers,
Andrej

[Edited 2006-06-04 19:16:19]

sunrisevalley · Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:15 am

In my view cash flow figures are more useful in determining what UA has the ability to do. While they are generating positive operating cash flows many things are possible.
A quote from their May 8th press release...
The company ended the quarter with an unrestricted cash balance of $3.6 billion, and a restricted cash balance of $0.9 billion, for a total cash balance of $4.5 billion. Unrestricted cash and short-term investments increased by $1.8 billion during the quarter as the company drew down $2.8 billion of exit financing. UAL generated positive operating cash flow of over $400 million.

airbus3801 · Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:34 am

The title of this post is very misleading. Unless it is totally confirmed by press and publicly by UA itselt, the title shouldn't be "UA TO Buy 777 blah blah" but UA Might Buy 777 blah blah". As others have said, this doesn't sound realistic. If they are only ordering 5, that isn't enough to open new flights from IAD to those locations, and UA might not be in a very great A/C purchasing situation at this time as they try to recover from the exit from Chp 11.

irishpower · Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:53 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
That sounds like the new flights are still 2 years from now. It will take at least that long to get the new builds from Boeing. But, new B-777-300ERs do have the range for IAD-NRT as it is 6753nm, using 240 minute ETOPS.

The 773ER's have plenty of range to make the flight. They technically could do JFK-HKG let alone IAD-NRT.

DTWAGENT · Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:23 am

Couldn't they have the funding allready in their budget for next year to purchase these aircraft?? Grant it I don't know alot about how the airlines operate, but seems like a budget is done every year. I could be wrong.....

chuck

jetdeltamsy · Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:48 am

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 15):
Jetdeltamsy,
where has it been posted anywhere that ual is still posting losses of about 1bln per yer????

Right here, Good Buddy. The profit was inclusive of extraordinary items (post bankruptcy credits). The operating loss for the kast quarter was $171 million. I was off by a couple of hundred million, but with losses like that, they will never be able to borrow money to pay for new equipment.

Read it and weep.

http://ir.united.com/phoenix.zhtml?c...l-newsArticle&ID=853199&highlight=

The company believes a better indicator of UAL's post-reorganization financial performance is its results excluding reorganization items. Excluding reorganization items, UAL reported a net loss for the combined quarter of $306 million, compared to a loss of $302 million a year ago. On an operating basis, UAL reported a combined first quarter operating loss of $171 million, a $79 million improvement over the same quarter last year

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