Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
DC10GUY
Topic Author
Posts: 2590
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 5:52 am

Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:15 am

At a recent meeting in MEM, front line managers where told, (among other things), that Fedex wants to buy up to 150 757's right now but can't because no airline wants to part with them. Fedex is in "talks" with Ryan Air about 15 737-800's and might buy more from them as their fleet ages. Also Fedex is in talks about buying more A380's to support a big customer, didn't say who... Looks like narrow bodies are becoming a rare find for freighter mods these days ...
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
flypdx
Posts: 603
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:19 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:29 am

Why would they buy Ryanair 738s? Are they not pretty new? If they want an order of 150 757s would that not be enough for Boeing to open up the line again
?
 
adriaticus
Posts: 994
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:29 pm

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:32 am

B752F's would be excellent workhorses to fill the current ca. 60-70K Lb void. FX's fleet sizes jumps from the B722F to the A310F - a B752F would make an excellent midpoint a/c.

But the B752 market is scarce as is... Let's hope they are found at not astronomical prices...

__Ad.
A300/18/19/20/21/30/32/88 An24 ATR42/72 B721/2 B732/3/G/8/MAX B741/2/4 B752 B762/3/4 B772/3 B788/9 Concorde DC8/9/10 E45/70/75/90/95 IL62/86 MD10-30/11 SA340/2000 TU134/154
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10444
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:38 am

Quoting Dc10guy (Thread starter):
Looks like narrow bodies are becoming a rare find for freighter mods these days ...

I was actually under the impression that there are plenty of narrow-bodies available for use in other-than-scheduled-airline-service applications, but that most of them...well...just don't make very good freighters.

727s are great freighters, and plentiful. They're just expensive to operate and maintain, although cheap to buy.

DC8s are great freighters, and plentiful. They're just expensive to operate and maintain, and they're losing their reliability. But they're also cheap to buy.

For its particular applications, ABX has had great success with its DC9 freighters. They are extraordinarily-reliable, have a 2-pilot cockpit and CATIII capability. However, they have fuel-efficiency issues and wouldn't likely be suitable for what FedEx is seeking, based on its existing container sizes and lift needs.

737s, apparently, have issues -- including floor loading, MTOW and proximity of the wing to the cargo door, as I understand it, although I may be wrong -- that make them not great freighters, although they are relatively fuel-efficient and have a modern, 2-pilot cockpit.

The 757 line would likely be running today if the spike in fuel prices had hit just a couple of years earlier than it did, producing 753s and 752Fs, I believe. As with everything in the airliner-manufacturing business, it was an issue of timing.

However, a more-versatile alternative to the 752 is the 762, of which ABX Air seems to be trying to corner the market on conversions, having bought many TWA 762s and a bunch of DL 762s. The thing carries 90,000 lbs of freight, and is more fuel-efficient than a 727, and has modern avionics and a 2-pilot cockpit. If FedEx is interested in 150 aircraft, maybe new-build or converted 767s, of a variety of flavors, might interest them. Of course, the 763 market is extremely tight right now, although that will likely change over the next 5 years.

The A380 comment seems odd. If I had to guess at who the "big customer" would be, I would assume the USPS. However, it seems like the greatest benefit of the USPS contract to FedEx is the fact that it gets to dramatically increase its daytime utilization of existing aircraft by moving containerized Priority Mail. So I'm not sure that I immediately would follow the logic.
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:44 am

Quoting Flypdx (Reply 1):
If they want an order of 150 757s would that not be enough for Boeing to open up the line again

No, the line is not only closed, but scrapped. Gone for good.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10444
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:01 am

Quoting Adriaticus (Reply 2):
B752F's would be excellent workhorses to fill the current ca. 60-70K Lb void. FX's fleet sizes jumps from the B722F to the A310F - a B752F would make an excellent midpoint a/c.

I don't know whether it's weight or number of containers that's the real issue for FDX, so I don't know whether that's the "void" that one wants to fill. But if so, then the 762F and the A310F are pretty comparable as far as pure tonnage is concerned. But then so is the 752F. According to Boeing, new-build 752Fs could lift 87,700lbs of cargo 3150 nautical miles. That's pretty comparable to the 90,000lbs of cargo that a 762F can carry, and significantly-less, of course, than the 120,000lbs that you can get on a new-build 763F. I'm guessing, though, that cabin size and number and size of containers enter into a purchase decision in a big way, not just liftable tonnage.
 
avconsultant
Posts: 709
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:18 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:22 am

When I was consulting with DL regarding the bankruptcy, GECAS informed the courts LOI and deposits for the entire DL 757 and 737-800 fleet had been received for first rights of refusal. The court asked GECAS to devulge this information all they said was the parties were an overseas company and a large overnight freight operator.

We learned from sources, Jet Airways of India has FRR for the 737-800's and FedEx for the 757 fleet. IIRC, there was thread on here in November.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10444
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:46 am

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 6):
When I was consulting with DL regarding the bankruptcy, GECAS informed the courts LOI and deposits for the entire DL 757 and 737-800 fleet had been received for first rights of refusal.

Okay...so I understand, because I'm dense. They have -- what? -- 77 owned and 44 leased 757s? Are all 44 leased from GECAS? Is that what you're referring to? Or did someone somehow get a Letter of Intent for *owned* aircraft?
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14428
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:47 am

I think FX should persue DL, NWA's oldest Pratt Powered 757s.

Delta has about 21-22 757s which are 20 years or older.

Northwest has 20 757s which are 20 years and older.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
aviationwiz
Posts: 882
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:20 pm

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:51 am

I'd like to appologize in advance, but I just had to...

Quoting STT757 (Reply 8):
Northwest has 20 757s which are 20 years and older.

They still have another good 20 years left in them! (Referring to the DC-9's age)
Proudly from the Home of the Red Tail.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10444
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:51 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 8):
Delta has about 21-22 757s which are 20 years or older.

All of which work just fine, are just as incredibly-efficient as they were when they were acquired, and which they desperately need right now, given that they're pushing a significant number of 767s onto international, no?
 
avconsultant
Posts: 709
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:18 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:23 pm

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 7):
Okay...so I understand, because I'm dense. They have -- what? -- 77 owned and 44 leased 757s? Are all 44 leased from GECAS? Is that what you're referring to? Or did someone somehow get a Letter of Intent for *owned* aircraft?

No No!! You are not dense, it's confusing. DL is in Bankruptcy - GECAS and American Express hold the majority of the debt. In 2004, DL attempted an out of court restructuring. One of the deals cut, DL leveraged the entire fleet (except the Spirit of Delta) as collateral.

GECAS had already been down the bankruptcy trail with USAirways and United. Thus the agreement with DL was bankruptcy proof and DL agreed to GECAS's terms. Which the court upheld late last year. Leased or owned, GECAS holds the deeds and mortgages of their fleet. Considering DL future looked bleak6 months ago, GECAS took steps to protect itself.

Also, it's difficult to repo an aircraft if you do not have a taker. For example, the courts prevented GECAS from reposing aircraft from UA. GECAS was burned by this and protected themselves accordingly by markeitng the leveraged fleet to potential lease holders. It's difficult for a judge to allow someone to lose money with Airline "B" when Airline "G" has committed paying fair market value.

I hope I explained this well, it's late.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10444
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:32 pm

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 11):
I hope I explained this well, it's late.

You explained it perfectly, and it's very interesting. I'm not entirely clear how the secured creditors would agree to (or could be forced to accept) GECAS holding an interest superior to their purchase-money security interest in an aircraft, or how a lessor could be persuaded to agree to (or could be forced to accept) GECAS holding an interest superior to their leasehold interest in a non-rejected lease, but perhaps there's some "equity" in there somewhere that DL could be allowed to pledge, so I'm sure that some financial genius figured how to unlock that value. But that means that the pre-bankruptcy unsecured creditors are beyond wiped out, aren't they? Wow.
 
DC10GUY
Topic Author
Posts: 2590
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 5:52 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:36 pm

I wonder about the A320 family too. I think Fedex was betting NWA or UAL or DAL would go titts up and they would get a boat load of 757s at fire sale prices ... now it don't look like that's going to happen. So maybe a 737-800 after market freighter will happen down the road in a few years ???
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
kaitak744
Posts: 2230
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:32 pm

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:02 pm

What about a 737-900ERF? That probably would fill this void and it would satisfy both Boeing and FedEx.
 
flywithjohn
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:59 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:52 pm

Im a FDX pilot
As far as we know fact A they are looking for a replacements for the 727 fleet in the next 5 yrs they are hopeful to have them all retired with a 2 person flight deck and 2 engine plane Fact B. they want to do this as cheap as possible. The 737 is either to to exspensive to purchase or does not hold enough. The 757 is to hard to auqire the number needed. NWA and DLA are not goign to part with the 757 because it is one of there work horses. 727 is out due to it's 3X3 plane. The 767 is the most likely because of the simple fact that it is a 2X2 and meets the operating costs and will be easy to auqire with the B787 lauch many 762s and 763s will be heading to the bone yard. As for the A380 there is no more orders at this time due A the orignal orders have now been delayed B they have not dne complete testing with it in the fleet and I could go on for hours CDEFGH......
It's simple they want a 2X2 plane that they can buy both cheap and keep it running cheap and meets requirements for it's pretacesors. 727 this leaves A300/310 767 the bus's are harder to find there's not as many and what there is in flight without retirment plans that leaves 767 CHEAP! to buy CHEAP! to run CARRIES! ALOT!

my 2 cents
Always Blue Sky's.....
 
columba
Posts: 5265
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:02 pm

Quoting Flywithjohn (Reply 15):
It's simple they want a 2X2 plane that they can buy both cheap and keep it running cheap and meets requirements for it's pretacesors. 727 this leaves A300/310 767 the bus's are harder to find there's not as many and what there is in flight without retirment plans that leaves 767 CHEAP! to buy CHEAP! to run CARRIES! ALOT!

Could Fedex also take interest in a westernised version of the Tu 204. It has about the same size of a 757, is relatively cheap to acquire and is already in service with TNT. I know that Fedex will be not to fond of a russian build aircraft but there some good facts about the Tu.
Air Berlin - gone but not forgotten
 
flywithjohn
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:59 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:09 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 16):
Could Fedex also take interest in a westernised version of the Tu 204. It has about the same size of a 757, is relatively cheap to acquire and is already in service with TNT. I know that Fedex will be not to fond of a russian build aircraft but there some good facts about the Tu.

I've never thought about that but if it's compatiable and easy to get and keep running I would think so probabley get a lot scrutiny but I wouldn't see why not but I don't know much about TU never been on one.
Always Blue Sky's.....
 
columba
Posts: 5265
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:17 pm

Quoting Flywithjohn (Reply 17):
I've never thought about that but if it's compatiable and easy to get and keep running I would think so probabley get a lot scrutiny but I wouldn't see why not but I don't know much about TU never been on one.

I have seen a documentary on russian aviation industry the other day and one manager of Tupolev said he has high hopes to sell the Tu 204 in western countries as a freighter.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alex Schäfer
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Petr Garaj

Air Berlin - gone but not forgotten
 
User avatar
solnabo
Posts: 5025
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:53 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:40 pm

Read that Airbus and the Russian aviation are to build 320/321 Freighters, maybe something to interest FedEx.

Micke//SWE  Smile
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
teva
Posts: 1784
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 12:31 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:33 pm

Yes, the 767 could be interesting.
However, I think it is toooooo biiiiiiiiiiig.
When Fedex received the first A300s, in 1994, the idea was too use them to replace the 727.
But the 300 was too big.
As a result, they started to buy second hand 310s, to fill the gap.
Same problem.
Fedex found new markets to use both 300s and 310s.
But it is still too big for the 727 markets.
Using big planes with multiple stops on those markets isn't a better idea. Customers would be penalized by earlier cut off times. And there would be higher costs (multiplication of short cycles, higher landing fees due to heavier metal, ...)
Teva
Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
 
Boeing727flyer
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:36 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:07 pm

To be honest if Fed Ex wanted to buy 150 boeng 757's I think Boeing might be tempted to cut them a deal and start the line again? I know I would re start the line for an order of that size.
Hail the mighty Boeing 727
 
Molykote
Posts: 1240
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:21 pm

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:16 pm

Quoting Flypdx (Reply 1):
If they want an order of 150 757s would that not be enough for Boeing to open up the line again



Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 4):
No, the line is not only closed, but scrapped. Gone for good.



Quoting Boeing727flyer (Reply 21):
To be honest if Fed Ex wanted to buy 150 boeng 757's I think Boeing might be tempted to cut them a deal and start the line again? I know I would re start the line for an order of that size.

I'd like to add that FedEx generally doesn't buy new airplanes. If 150 757s were available in any form, they probably wouldn't be coming from Boeing directly.
Speedtape - The aspirin of aviation!
 
teva
Posts: 1784
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 12:31 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:49 pm

Molykote,
What about the A300? The A380?
Fedex also bought its first MD11 fresh from the factory.
They also bought some 727 the same way (especially the last ever built)
They even had a project to develop a brand new plane for their needs. But the company choosen for that has not been able to build it (the Ayres Loadmaster)
In fact, they try to have the best mix between new and second hand planes.
Teva
Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
 
cloud4000
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:38 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:59 pm

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 3):
737s, apparently, have issues -- including floor loading, MTOW and proximity of the wing to the cargo door, as I understand it, although I may be wrong -- that make them not great freighters, although they are relatively fuel-efficient and have a modern, 2-pilot cockpit.

737-300s, -400s and -500s are plentiful. And many of them are being converted to freighters. I know Kalitta has a few in service.
Boston, USA
 
positiverate
Posts: 1543
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:33 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 18):
have seen a documentary on russian aviation industry the other day and one manager of Tupolev said he has high hopes to sell the Tu 204 in western countries as a freighter.

He'll have to keep on hoping because it ain't going to happen at FedEx.

On a different note, where did all of UPS' 757's come from? All factory new?
 
atmx2000
Posts: 4301
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:33 pm

Quoting Boeing727flyer (Reply 21):
To be honest if Fed Ex wanted to buy 150 boeng 757's I think Boeing might be tempted to cut them a deal and start the line again? I know I would re start the line for an order of that siz

Tooling has been destroyed, and didn't they use the space for another 737 line?

I've suggested before that Boeing should release the 757 replacement member of the next gen narrowbody first, as that model is older. The airlines can jump on them and sell their 757s to cargo operators like FedEx.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
tockeyhockey
Posts: 882
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:57 pm

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:34 pm

can someone tell me why the 757 line closed?
 
EXMEMWIDGET
Posts: 208
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:25 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:16 pm

I work for FedEx too. In a meeting 2 or 3 years ago, we were told by a visiting VP that FedEx would order 737 freighters very soon to replace the 727's. As is typical of FedEx, we have never heard another word about it since then.
Ex DL and NW, current FX.
 
avconsultant
Posts: 709
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:18 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:45 pm

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 25):
On a different note, where did all of UPS' 757's come from? All factory new?

I thought UPS was the 757F launch customer. I think they've been in the fleet for 10+ yrs. Someone on here would know.

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 27):
can someone tell me why the 757 line closed?

I read an article explaining, at the time, there were 30+ 757 for sale in deserts around the SW. Sales had dropped. The 737-900 has the same capacity, but not the same performance.
 
steeler83
Posts: 7702
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: Fedex Rumours

Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:59 pm

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 29):
The 737-900 has the same capacity, but not the same performance.

I was about to make the comment that the 739 holds about 10-20 people less than a 752 would hold, but this is a freight thread. My bad  silly 
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
Experimental
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:39 pm

RE: Fedex Rumours

Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:05 am

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 25):
where did all of UPS' 757's come from? All factory new?

I don't know how many, but some are ex. BA
 
avconsultant
Posts: 709
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:18 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:11 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 30):
739 holds about 10-20 people less than a 752 would hold

I know CO operates the same # of seats on a 752 and 739. I think Boeing will work a buy back agreement with the 787 inplace of the 757/767. Where Boeing will market the aircraft as freighters. I know Airbus is or was planning this with the A350 to replace A330 and I do emphasis "was".
 
Scorpio
Posts: 5050
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:47 am

Quoting Experimental (Reply 31):
I don't know how many, but some are ex. BA

Incorrect. All their 757s were newly acquired from Boeing.
 
airmailer
Posts: 478
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:28 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:04 am

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 4):
Quoting Flypdx (Reply 1):
If they want an order of 150 757s would that not be enough for Boeing to open up the line again

No, the line is not only closed, but scrapped. Gone for good.

If FedEx was ready to order 150 757s couldn't Boeing just convert the 767 line over to 757s once they finish the handful of orders that they have left for the 767?

No Idea how hard this would be... Just a thought.
 
aogdesk
Posts: 748
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:26 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:11 am

Yes, all of UPS's 757s were built as -APF, Advanced Package Freighter, to which UPS in part or whole owns the STC.
 
GQfluffy
Posts: 3072
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: Fedex Rumours

Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:46 am

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 25):
On a different note, where did all of UPS' 757's come from? All factory new?

I'm not sure. I know UPS operates both RR and PW-powered 757s. I would assume UPS bought some new and acquired some over the years from other sources.

Quoting AirMailer (Reply 34):
If FedEx was ready to order 150 757s couldn't Boeing just convert the 767 line over to 757s once they finish the handful of orders that they have left for the 767?

No Idea how hard this would be... Just a thought.

Very hard. Impossible...even. Too bad this didn't come a few years earlier. Boeing could've/would've/should've gotten alot of money from this, not to mention the fact that Boeing would've gotten some more orders for the pax version as well. Sigh...what can you do?

Quoting Aogdesk (Reply 35):
Yes, all of UPS's 757s were built as -APF,

Maybe when some were converted? I'm confused about this. Does anyone have a chart or a clue where all UPS' 757s came from? I know some were factory-built, but I'm still trying to figure out why they have both engine-types in their fleet...
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10444
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:02 am

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 36):
I'm not sure. I know UPS operates both RR and PW-powered 757s. I would assume UPS bought some new and acquired some over the years from other sources.

No reason to assume that. According to the UPS Media Room, they have 40 with the RB211 and 35 with the PW2040. They were all bought brand new. The first 35 were built with the PW2040, then they switched to the RB211 for the remaining 40.

Remember that UPS's initial order for 757 freighters was only for 20. They ordered them in spurts, and after the first 35, switched to the engine that almost everyone was using, the RB211.

UPS actually had options that would have allowed them to have a total fleet of north of 100 of the APF, but apparently let them go.

[Edited 2006-06-05 19:04:16]
 
syncmaster
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 9:55 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:04 am

Quoting Cloud4000 (Reply 24):
737-300s, -400s and -500s are plentiful. And many of them are being converted to freighters. I know Kalitta has a few in service.

I think you mean Kitty Hawk, Kalitta has not been a part of Kitty Hawk since the bankruptcy.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Charles Juszczak - Airside Photography
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Freight-Dawg - Airside Photography



-Charlie
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10444
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:06 am

Quoting Cloud4000 (Reply 24):
737-300s, -400s and -500s are plentiful. And many of them are being converted to freighters.

I don't think you're ever going to see -500s as standard freighters, because of the distance between the front edge of the wing and the L1 door, as well as the proximity of the engine to the ground equipment.

[Edited 2006-06-05 19:08:43]
 
andrewuber
Posts: 2142
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:45 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:08 am

Quoting Syncmaster (Reply 38):
I think you mean Kitty Hawk, Kalitta has not been a part of Kitty Hawk since the bankruptcy.

 checkmark 

A lot of people think Kitty Hawk and Kalitta are the same. This is definately not the case however. They are completely separate companies.

Kitty Hawk Aircargo is the only North American operator of B737-300 freighters. Alaska Cargo has just received their second 734 full freighter, but due to some STC problems they are not in service yet. Hopefully they will be flying within a couple of weeks.

Drew  wave 
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
syncmaster
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 9:55 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:11 am

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 39):
I don't think you're ever going to see -500s as standard freighters, because of the distance between the front edge of the wing and the L1 door, as well as the proximity of the engine to the ground equipment.

Right, we see this problem every night on the Kitty Hawk ramp, stairs to get up into the plane are actually put on the R1 door because of the close proximity to the cargo door (K-Loader + stairs + left engine = high damage possibility). The left engine intake is also covered to prevent damage.

-Charlie

Edit: Spelling

[Edited 2006-06-05 19:12:47]

[Edited 2006-06-05 19:18:01]
 
avconsultant
Posts: 709
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:18 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:14 am

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 40):
Kitty Hawk Aircargo is the only North American operator of B737-300 freighters. Alaska Cargo has just received their second 734 full freighter, but due to some STC problems they are not in service yet. Hopefully they will be flying within a couple of weeks.

The irony is Kitty Hawk has been chartered by AS to operate the route the 734 was scheduled to have flown.
 
andrewuber
Posts: 2142
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:45 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:16 am

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 42):
The irony is Kitty Hawk has been chartered by AS to operate the route the 734 was scheduled to have flown.

Correct! We currently have ship 69735 up there doing runs from SEA-ANC. I believe that goes through this month.

Drew  cool 
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
NASOCEANA
Posts: 277
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:40 pm

RE: Fedex Rumours

Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:31 am

I think that the B757 or B767 are probably the most logical choice as an replacement to the 727. Based simply on the amount of frames that would need to be replaced.

The additional capacity of the B767 over the B727 as mentioned is large gap.

However, I think that this will be a plus to FedEx as it would allow for more flexibility. There will be additional lift capacity for Heavyweight shipments, USPS freight, and the added ability to sweep more airport or to cut down on sweeps.

They only draw back of the B757 and B767 would be the additional Ramp space that FedEx would need to acquire which could be a significant cost. I believe that the B757 has a wingspan of an additional 16ft. and the B767 is 48ft for each frame over the 727. The length of the B757 is just 2 feet longer than B727 and the B767 is 27 feet longer.

However, I think it cost would be minimized by the fact the the B757 & B767 are much more fuel efficient and one less man in the cockpit. And the two aircraft are the same type rating.

FedEx also just signed an exclusive deal with Pratt & Whitney for its power-plants.
B777 greatest Airliner ever built!
 
Humberside
Posts: 3240
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:44 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:20 am

Quoting Experimental (Reply 31):
I don't know how many, but some are ex. BA

Your thinking of DHL who use converted ex BA B757's

I take it FedEx would get second hand B767's or is there a chanceof a few new ones if they can get a get a good price?
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
User avatar
tjwgrr
Posts: 2553
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2000 4:09 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:27 am

FedEx 767-200

Modified Airliner Photos:
Click here for bigger photo!
Design © Ediney
Template © Dierre Longlois



FedEx 737-800:

Modified Airliner Photos:
Click here for bigger photo!
Design © EDINEY
Template © KEI IENS MEVES

Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
rdwelch
Posts: 449
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:52 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:43 am

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 46):
Tjwgrr

Thanks for putting the image into a tangible perspective, very nice.

Gus
They say I have ADD, but they don't understand..Oh look! A chicken!
 
whynottu204
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 6:02 am

RE: Fedex Rumours

Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:55 am

I know this is probably not going to happen but still, as mentioned above, I would love to hear what people here think about the actual chances of FedEx exploring the possibility of a TU-204/214 Freighter. Send a team out to TNT - ask some questions, etc... What do you think? 1%? 10%? 0.000000000%?
 
3201
Posts: 813
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:16 pm

RE: Fedex Rumours

Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:06 am

Quoting Molykote (Reply 22):

I'd like to add that FedEx generally doesn't buy new airplanes.

In the past they didn't, but two things have changed since they bought a lot of their current fleet:

1. They fly more of their fleet twice a day rather than once a day
2. Fuel (and maybe maintenance too) costs are higher compared to the price of airplanes

Now when they buy an airplane, they're flying it twice as much, have less time to fix it if it's maintenance-intensive, and the cost difference between higher and lower fuel consumption is bigger, so if they bought more airplanes today, they'd be a lot more likely to buy new ones than at other times in their history. It's simply more worth it to spend more on airplanes now than it had been.
7 hours aint long-haul

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos