Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:15 am

From USA today!

St. Louis, MO: Do you see STL being an under utilized airport?
Ben Mutzabaugh: Yes and no. The airport now has a new $1 billion, 9,000-foot runway and can handle more air traffic than ever. Plus, nearly all of the 14 gates on Concourse D are empty. So, it CAN be used by many more passengers and aircraft. But, without demand for such flights, I don't know that you could really say it's underutilized. Obviously, demand fell sharply once TWA joined AA and then downsized its St. Louis hub. St. Louis could still make a good hub for an airline, but any hub needs a relatively strong amount of local demand to make a hub profitable -- regardless of how much connecting traffic is available. And, of course, St. Louis remains a hub in the AA route network.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
FWAERJ
Posts: 2816
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:23 am

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:19 am

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 41):
Was FWA-LGA a very successful route?

Yes. It had 70%+ load factors. However, the government-mandated flight caps at LGA forced American Eagle to cut ERJ-135 service to some smaller markets, and FWA was one of them.

So, they simply decided to shift the twice-daily ERJ-135 flight to DFW instead. It was first boosted to two ERJ-145s, then to three; however, it's now back to two ERJ-145s daily. The flight is doing quite well with load factors of around 80%.
B721/722/731/732/733/735/73G/738/739/742/752/753/762/763, A300/319/320, DC-9/10, MD-82/83/88/90, ERJ-140/145, CRJ-200/700, Q200, SF340, AS350
 
CentPIT
Posts: 978
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:48 am

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:19 am

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 45):
Mhmm...I know that. But it looks as if the last several destinations announced have not been linked to BOS. While PIT will have BOS service, CLT, RDU, JAX, AUA and now BNA will not. While I wouldn't expect non-stop service to AUA or even CLT because of US' large presence, I would have certainly expected RDU, JAX and BNA to be given at least some BOS service - even if just 2x on an E190.

Maybe there isn't enough traffic for B6, or maybe they aren't interested. Traffic on the PIT-BOS route is going to skyrocket now that the fares are down!
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:24 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 51):
Yes. It had 70%+ load factors.

High load factors do not always mean profitable flights.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
mrstl
Topic Author
Posts: 353
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:58 am

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:37 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 50):
And, of course, St. Louis remains a hub in the AA route network.

I'm sorry but AA is hardly running a hub here and quite frankly is still shipping STL passengers on 22 flights a day on 757/md80 aircraft to ORD/DFW/MIA to connect to other cities in the US. Not to mention the other carriers doing the same thing WN included. Costs are now higher at STL which has made it a less attractive option but the traffic is there-- some of it may have to be stolen from other carriers, some will be attracted by lower fares on major business routes, but B6 would do great with an E190 focus city with some select A320 service out to the coasts. I am not talking about 200 flights but maybe ultimately 75+. This O&D market is growing 8-10% every month for the last two years and will continue to do so. As a far as a travel analysis on USA Today- well I disagree with his assessment-- we will see. STL is not high on AA's priority list and it is here for B6 to take.
 
User avatar
ERJ170
Posts: 5905
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:15 am

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:38 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 51):
However, the government-mandated flight caps

Now am I wrong, drunk, or right when I read/heard somewhere that the LGA caps are to be dropped this/next year? I thought I understood that to be true.. but I could be wrong.. again.
Aiming High and going far..
 
flyer62
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 9:25 am

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:43 am

jetblue is doing very well at PWM and are keeping their A-320s! on all four daily flights, maybe in the slower midwinter they may have the 7:00 pm departure become E-190, I picked up my sister the other day and her jetblue flight was full
 
kcrwflyer
Posts: 2616
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 am

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:50 am

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 46):
I don't understand why an LCC has not come in to the midwest with full force yet

As much as I hate mentioning their name in a B6 thread.....I'm going to say the reason is NW.

And what really is full force; where do you draw the boundaries for the Midwest? Chicago has LCCs. Sun Country is based in MSP. Allegiant and Airtran have their markets. Southwest has OMA, MDW, MCI, STL, and IND. That's pretty decent coverage. No, its not crowded with them like the east and west coasts are but its definitely not mediocre.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 53):

High load factors do not always mean profitable flights.

Your right, but lets be realistic here. AA didn't have 90$ fares on a route like FWA-LGA. LGA does have pretty high operating costs, but I'm sure they kept fares where they were making money, if not the route would have probably been cut before it was forced to be.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 55):
Now am I wrong, drunk, or right when I read/heard somewhere that the LGA caps are to be dropped this/next year? I thought I understood that to be true.. but I could be wrong.. again.

If that's true I see a lot of expansion into LGA.
 
BR715-A1-30
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:04 am

Hmm.. I wonder what AA is thinking.. After all, BNA USED to be one of their hubs.
Puhdiddle
 
User avatar
ERJ170
Posts: 5905
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:15 am

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:06 am

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 58):
I wonder what AA is thinking

Here.. let me answer this one for you.. NOTHING! Same thing they were thinking when B6 entered their other former hubs.. Unless it starts with a M, D, or C.. it doesn't mean a lot to AA.. even the S's get shafted.
Aiming High and going far..
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 3310
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:12 am

Quoting Flyer62 (Reply 56):
jetblue is doing very well at PWM and are keeping their A-320s! on all four daily flights, maybe in the slower midwinter they may have the 7:00 pm departure become E-190, I picked up my sister the other day and her jetblue flight was full

Actually, PWM will go to 4 E190s this upcoming fall. At least frequencies aren't being cut!

JetBluefan1
 
LambertMan
Posts: 1744
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:20 am

BNA.....nice choice. Not a huge selection of flights from the area to New York, could work out well.

Quoting MrSTL (Reply 54):
STL is not high on AA's priority list and it is here for B6 to take.

We don't necessarily know that. In most public statements they have done nothing but boast about the St. Louis operation, but on this board, many believe they would roll over and die if any airline came calling. It's up in the air.

It's easy to envision STL as a hub given the gates, runway etc. but what common thing have they focused on in their focus cities choices? Massive origin and destination markets.

LGB (L.A.)
IAD (D.C.)
MIA (South Fla)
BOS & NYC

With that being the case, you can effectively rule St. Louis out until JetBlue changes their mindset.
 
NASBWI
Posts: 982
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:12 am

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:28 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 17):
If you consider boarding a shuttle bus part of the jetBlue experience...jetBlue is busting from the seams at T6. You already have a minioperation going on at T4...It's time to slow down at JFK until the new terminal is opened.

If B6 were to wait to start those operations till after the new T5 was constructed, we would lose a vital part of our market. The new terminal probably won't be ready for another 3 years. Three years without JFK - SJU/STI and other potential markets could damage any airline trying to serve those routes. Timing is everything, and sometimes one has to take temporary measures to accomodate it. As for the terminal itself, it's really not that bad. It may not be a huge concrete structure, but it keeps the rain out ,and for the most part it's comfortable. Also, the shuttle bus lasts about a minute and a half; I'm sure it won't be *that* detrimental to the jetBlue experience  wink .
Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
 
stl1326
Posts: 392
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:07 pm

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:30 am

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 61):
LGB (L.A.)
IAD (D.C.)
MIA (South Fla)
BOS & NYC

With that being the case, you can effectively rule St. Louis out until JetBlue changes their mindset.

That is true but you can't build a hub at these airport with connecting traffic. As they continue to grow they will eventually need a hub somewhere not saying that it is going to be STL but they will need a place with good O&D and where they can funnel connecting traffic through.
 
User avatar
ERJ170
Posts: 5905
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:15 am

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:35 am

How long until ORF is announced? They seem to be hitting the major areas.. I'm assuming the next airports would be ORF, CHS, CMH, and/or BWI? It seems to be going with the theme of filling the MidAtlantic (NC, SC, VA, TN, MD)
Aiming High and going far..
 
jetblueatjfk
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:42 am

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:49 am

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 10):
I don't get it. Not long after jetBlue talks about how they are going to slow down expanding a bit, they keep announcing new stations. And I know for a fact there are at least two more to be announced by summer's end. They need to stick with a plan.

This is the plan, 10 cities in 06 and on smaller routes.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 17):
If you consider boarding a shuttle bus part of the jetBlue experience...jetBlue is busting from the seams at T6. You already have a minioperation going on at T4...It's time to slow down at JFK until the new terminal is opened.

They have the 6 SJU flights and 1 arrivng STI flight, not much at all really. SJU flights should be over to the T6 or the temp terminal soon since they only moved them there to ease congestion.

B6 can add 30-40 more flights with the new 7 gates and if they fill that out which they probably will, they will gain 5 more gates in the ne terminal plus many hardstand spots.

BOS expansion will come when they finish adding all of the gates. They will be up to 11 gates by 08 but now they seem to be filling the working ones nicely. They will expand more from BOS soon enough.

B6jfk airplane 
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7858
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:20 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 33):
Wow, before B6, there was no way to get to Maine from Nashville?!

Well, dog sled, but it's a little harder in the warmer months.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
warszawa
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 11:37 am

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:55 pm

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 22):
DTW has a slew of LCC's that offer service.

The only LCC in DTW offering NYC service is spirit, not a slew of LCC's. 5 Carriers offer DTW-NYC service; those being American, Delta, Continental, Northwest, and Spirit.

I never viewed DTW as an even remotely possible option given the large amount of flights already flying the DTW-NYC route.

FNT-NYC? 0 Carriers.

I seriously see FNT as a viable option considering the airport director in FNT has expressed great interest in trying to get AirTran to fly FNT-LGA or BWI. That was 1 year ago, no telling whats the story on that deal now; FNT has the counter space (plenty, for that matter), the baggage carousels (They're adding 2 new baggage carousels to the airport, expanding), and if I recall correctly, just 1 free gate (Since Delta cancelled CVG service and now only offers ATL, 1 gate I believe is now open, either Gate 7 or Gate 8). I think the deal with AirTran has already fallen through and is over with, though i'm pretty confident that the airport director in FNT is working with some airline to attempt to get travel to NYC.

Sounds like the perfect option to me. Moreover, in JetBlue's original list of 28 cities that N702ML posted, FNT was mentioned.

[Edited 2006-06-07 10:06:25]
Flying a plane is no diff. from riding a bicycle. Its just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -'Airplane'
 
NASBWI
Posts: 982
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:12 am

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:00 pm

Quoting Warszawa (Reply 67):
The only LCC in DTW is spirit, not a slew of LCC's

Don't forget WN  smile .
Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
 
warszawa
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 11:37 am

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:09 pm

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 68):
Don't forget WN

and AirTran + Frontier...though I was referencing NYC service.
Flying a plane is no diff. from riding a bicycle. Its just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -'Airplane'
 
kcrwflyer
Posts: 2616
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 am

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:02 pm

Quoting Warszawa (Reply 67):
Moreover, in JetBlue's original list of 28 cities that N702ML posted, FNT was mentioned.

Again, wasnt that list deemed invalid?
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7858
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:49 pm

Well I'm booked. First flight out....!!
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 3310
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:12 am

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 70):
Again, wasnt that list deemed invalid?

It was for a good 5 years. However, as B6 is looking to concentrate more on short- and medium- range routes, it looks like most of the destinations on the list (such as PIT, CLT, RDU, BNA - all of which were already announced) could very well come to fruition in the near future.

JetBluefan1
 
kcrwflyer
Posts: 2616
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 am

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:50 am

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 72):
It was for a good 5 years. However, as B6 is looking to concentrate more on short- and medium- range routes, it looks like most of the destinations on the list (such as PIT, CLT, RDU, BNA - all of which were already announced) could very well come to fruition in the near future.

JetBluefan1

Looks like CRW is the smallest city on there, but with PWM getting 4x a320 or something like that, I'm not ruling any city out.


I could see them going to SAV, and CAK; probably DAY too. I dont know how much traffic GSP has to New York.

I dont know about FNT and GRR, thats in that one airlines backyard.
 
jetblueatjfk
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:42 am

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:58 am

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 73):
Looks like CRW is the smallest city on there, but with PWM getting 4x a320 or something like that, I'm not ruling any city out.

Don't worry man they'll get there one day. I could see 2X 190 to JFK by fall 07. Just my guess but you never know. Big grin

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 73):
I dont know about FNT and GRR, thats in that one airlines backyard.

Yea but B6 can pull it off to FNT if they don't try at DTW. If they go into both or DTW first then we should see some fun games but if they jsut to FNT NW won't attack them that badly.

B6jfk airplane 
 
flymia
Posts: 7127
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 6:33 am

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:15 am

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 73):
but with PWM getting 4x a320 or something like that, I'm not ruling any city out.

During the summer, Maine is a major tourist destination for people up and down the East Coast. Portland's airport acts as the main gateway for the region. The 4x daily A320 service will most likley be only during the summer. Reduced frequency and/or smaller aircraft is pretty certain for the winter.

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 65):
This is the plan, 10 cities in 06 and on smaller routes.

No, they broke from that plan. They have announced ten cities so far in 2006. More will be announced at the end of the summer, including a new Florida city and probably Cancun, because jetBlue will likely win the authority.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
Rottamo
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:45 pm

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:59 am

Here are some high fare destinations from New York (Based on Dot's consumer air fare report). I have compared lowest average fare vs. potential average fare by B6.

Origin Destination Lenght Passengers fare diff
New York, NY Washington, DC 229 4,268 75 %
Boston, MA New York, NY 200 4,245 74 %
New York, NY Raleigh/Durham, NC 431 1,663 33 %
Cleveland, OH New York, NY 425 1,342 24 %
New York, NY St. Louis, MO 892 1,247 66 %
Cincinnati, OH New York, NY 589 987 78 %
Columbus, OH New York, NY 483 923 75 %
New York, NY Pittsburgh, PA 340 851 233 %
Nashville, TN New York, NY 766 784 50 %
Greensboro/High Point, NC New York, NY 461 677 52 %
Memphis, TN New York, NY 964 634 51 %
New York, NY Richmond, VA 292 554 99 %
New York, NY Portland, ME 284 439 100 %
New York, NY Norfolk, VA 296 308 141 %


list is a bit old because it is based on Q3/2005 data. JetBlue has announced quite many of these so may be we can expect some other cities from this "shame table".
Rottamo

[Edited 2006-06-08 01:06:38]
 
kcrwflyer
Posts: 2616
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 am

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:01 am

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 75):
During the summer, Maine is a major tourist destination for people up and down the East Coast. Portland's airport acts as the main gateway for the region. The 4x daily A320 service will most likley be only during the summer. Reduced frequency and/or smaller aircraft is pretty certain for the winter.

I didnt know PWM was a gateway like that. And yes, its going to be emb-190 this fall I've heard.

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 74):
Don't worry man they'll get there one day. I could see 2X 190 to JFK by fall 07. Just my guess but you never know.

All I can do is hope.
 
airmailer
Posts: 478
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:28 am

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:15 am

Quoting FlyCMH (Reply 6):
However SAV and the three major South Carolina markets of Greensville/Spartanburg, Columbia, and Charleston were good markets for Independence as well, so maybe there's the off chance that one or two of them could be next to see jetBlue.

GSP would be a great place for B6 to head to next.
The area might be small, but it's the only thing between CLT and ATL worth mentioning... and with fares going up in ATL to WAS (currently about $300 is the cheapest that I can find, if some can find less than $200 PLEASE let me know!), I could see that as a good route for them.
 
GoBlue
Posts: 213
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:27 pm

RE: JetBlue To Start JFK-BNA

Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:05 am

I am thinking that St. Louis and even Kansas City could be next destinations. As B6 works its way west.

Just my 2 cents!

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos