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TuRbUleNc3
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Gulf Air A320 That Crashed.

Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:20 am

Sorry if this has been asked before, but i was thinking about something earlier

The Gulf Air A320 did a go around into an airport a few years ago, but subsequently crashed in the sea, remember it?

I seem to remember seeing the aircraft on the news, some parts seemed intact and visible under the water, as the water didnt seem that deep and was pretty clear.

Can anyone tell me where i can find these pictures?
 
starguy
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RE: Gulf Air A320 That Crashed.

Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:38 am

I remember the one, You're right, the water seemed to be really shallow and so clear that you could see the livery on the wreckage. Such a tragic event.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Gulf Air A320 That Crashed.

Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:02 am

It was at Bahrain.

Yes, the Gulf is very shallow around there. But you really don't want to go swimming in a plane. no 
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MYT332
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RE: Gulf Air A320 That Crashed.

Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:03 am

http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/gulfair/photo.shtml

The aircraft [A40-EK] was conducting a normal approach to runway 12 at Bahrain International Airport with autopilot/flight director disconnected upon visual contact with the runway. Approximately 1nm from touchdown, at about 600 feet msl and at an airspeed of 185kt, the crew requested a left-hand orbit (360° turn) because they were too high and fast on the approach. During the tight (36° bank angle) left hand turn the flaps were fully extended and the landing checklist completed. When the aircraft crossed the extended runway centerline the crew reported they wanted to abort the landing. A controller gave the crew clearance to climb to 2,500 feet at a 300° heading to prepare for another approach. The plane's speed began increasing to 185kts as it began to climb to 1000ft in a 5° nose-up attitude. During the go-around at approximately 1,000 feet, the aircraft entered a rapid descent, 15° nose down. As the GPWS sounded, the captain ordered the flaps to be raised and moved the sidestick aft. The Airbus impacted the sea at a 6.5° nose down angle, about 1nm north of the airport. The plane's last recorded airspeed was about 280 knots. The captain had logged 6,856 hours.
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redflyer
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RE: Gulf Air A320 That Crashed.

Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:31 am

Quoting Myt332 (Reply 3):

So what was the cause of the crash during the climb-out?
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TuRbUleNc3
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RE: Gulf Air A320 That Crashed.

Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:56 am

Myt332

Thanks matey!

Quoting StarGuy (Reply 1):
I remember the one, You're right, the water seemed to be really shallow and so clear that you could see the livery on the wreckage. Such a tragic event.

Yeah indeed, i remember seeing a view of the tail and body submerged, i recognised the airline from the tail, shame i cant find this specific picture though.
 
hodja
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RE: Gulf Air A320 That Crashed.

Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:58 am

Something's just not sitting right about this particular crash.

It all seems like such a mysterious turn of events. And this was not in some remote region or inclement weather, but right in front of a major airport with multiple eye witnesses.

Somehow the cause must relate to the dual missed approaches. (?)

Indeed, what was the final analysis about the cause of this crash - did the NTSB ever deliver a verdict?
 
rtfm
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RE: Gulf Air A320 That Crashed.

Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:04 am

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 4):
So what was the cause of the crash during the climb-out?

Basically spatial disorientation but there were multiple causal factors; see the following for a full report:

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20000823-0
 
hodja
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RE: Gulf Air A320 That Crashed.

Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:16 am

From the report:

"(c) A perceptual study indicated that during the go-around after the orbit, it appears that the flight crew experienced spatial disorientation, which could have caused the captain to perceive (falsely) that the aircraft was 'pitching up'. He responded by making a 'nose-down' input, and as a result, the aircraft descended and flew into the shallow sea."

This it what I just don't get. Spatial Disorientation? A commercial airline captain with 6856 hours of flying experience can't tell what's up and down in his own aircraft? Not to mention an arsenal of high tech instruments to guide him along. And he's not able to execute a simple turnaround?!

Weird. It just sounds like gross negligence or something like that.
 
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remcor
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RE: Gulf Air A320 That Crashed.

Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:37 am

Quoting Hodja (Reply 8):
From the report:
"(c) A perceptual study indicated that during the go-around after the orbit, it appears that the flight crew experienced spatial disorientation, which could have caused the captain to perceive (falsely) that the aircraft was 'pitching up'. He responded by making a 'nose-down' input, and as a result, the aircraft descended and flew into the shallow sea."

So, in other words, they got dizzy?
 
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scbriml
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RE: Gulf Air A320 That Crashed.

Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:55 am

Quoting Hodja (Reply 6):
It all seems like such a mysterious turn of events. And this was not in some remote region or inclement weather, but right in front of a major airport with multiple eye witnesses.

IIRC the crash happened in darkness. Not a lot of lights around Bahrain.

Quoting Hodja (Reply 8):
This it what I just don't get. Spatial Disorientation?

It wasn't the first crash caused by disorientation and sadly, it's unlikely to be the last.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
GBan
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RE: Gulf Air A320 That Crashed.

Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:13 am

Quoting Hodja (Reply 8):
This it what I just don't get. Spatial Disorientation? A commercial airline captain with 6856 hours of flying experience can't tell what's up and down in his own aircraft? Not to mention an arsenal of high tech instruments to guide him along. And he's not able to execute a simple turnaround?!

The human brain uses several "inputs" to calculate orientation: light/visual and gravitation. If there is no visual input and gravitation input is distorted (for example through acceleration) the human brain is not capable to know where the vertical or horizontal lines are.

You can easily find out: Simulate darkness by closing your eyes when you fly the next time. Then try to guess at what angle your aircraft is flying. Then open your eyes and check. You'll get lot's of surprises.
 
redflyer
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RE: Gulf Air A320 That Crashed.

Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:21 am

Quoting RTFM (Reply 7):
Basically spatial disorientation but there were multiple causal factors; see the following for a full report:

http://aviation-safety.net/database/...823-0

Thanks for the response.

Pardon my ignorance, but I thought the A320's FBW system had a built-in safety envelope which effectively would prevent CFIT, which appears to be what happened here (I'm assuming it was CFIT since the PIC flew the plane into the water rather than stalling the aircraft or putting it into an unusual attitude).
A government big enough to take away a constitutionally guaranteed right is a government big enough to take away any guaranteed right. A government big enough to give you everything you need is a government big enough to take away everything you have.
 
saturn5
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RE: Gulf Air A320 That Crashed.

Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:33 am

Quoting Hodja (Reply 8):
This it what I just don't get. Spatial Disorientation? A commercial airline captain with 6856 hours of flying experience can't tell what's up and down in his own aircraft?

You definitely must read more about accidents and pilots. For unknown reasons many very experienced pilots lose control over their aircraft. It is a very common problem in general aviation (where you also have pilots with thousands of hours), less so in large jet flying. The Egiptian 737 Flash Air accident from January 2005 also involved spatial disorientation.

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 12):
Pardon my ignorance, but I thought the A320's FBW system had a built-in safety envelope which effectively would prevent CFIT

No, there is no aircraft on this planet equipped with automation that would prevent a CFIT. Do not confuse CFIT with a "flight envelope".

[Edited 2006-06-08 00:36:19]
 
fspilot747
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RE: Gulf Air A320 That Crashed.

Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:34 am

Quoting Hodja (Reply 8):
"(c) A perceptual study indicated that during the go-around after the orbit, it appears that the flight crew experienced spatial disorientation, which could have caused the captain to perceive (falsely) that the aircraft was 'pitching up'. He responded by making a 'nose-down' input, and as a result, the aircraft descended and flew into the shallow sea."

This is by far the most bizarre thing I've ever read about an airliner disaster. An experienced airline crew not aware to trust their instruments, in an A320? There's just, excuse the expression, no f*cking way that is possible.
 
hodja
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RE: Gulf Air A320 That Crashed.

Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:41 am

Quoting GBan (Reply 11):
You can easily find out: Simulate darkness by closing your eyes when you fly the next time. Then try to guess at what angle your aircraft is flying. Then open your eyes and check. You'll get lot's of surprises.

But isn't this vital circumstance pretty much the 1st thing a pilot learns about in training, and the main reason why airplanes fly by instruments in the first place?

That's not to say that it didn't happen that way. Everyone can be caught off guard. If so it's just unfortunate in this case, that none of the "back up" procedures/systems managed to catch this fatal oversight...
 
saturn5
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RE: Gulf Air A320 That Crashed.

Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:41 am

Quoting FSPilot747 (Reply 14):
This is by far the most bizarre thing I've ever read about an airliner disaster.

Clearly you have to read more about aviation accidents and then nothing would surprise you. This was not the first and not the last accident of this kind. Professional pilots with thousands of hours are capable of far more bizarre behavior than what we had here - the list is long.
 
hodja
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 6:41 am

RE: Gulf Air A320 That Crashed.

Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:45 am

Quoting Saturn5 (Reply 13):
You definitely must read more about accidents and pilots. For unknown reasons many very experienced pilots lose control over their aircraft

I guess so.

I just xref'd "Disorientation, situational awareness" in the crash database, and stumbled onto this chilling example.
 
saturn5
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Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:49 pm

RE: Gulf Air A320 That Crashed.

Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:54 am

Quoting Hodja (Reply 17):
I just xref'd "Disorientation, situational awareness" in the crash database, and stumbled onto this chilling example.

At least in this particular case there was a malfunction. The Gulf Air 320 or Flash Air 737 spatial disorientations involved no known malfunction - hence they are even more 'chilling'.

[Edited 2006-06-08 00:55:02]

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