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atmx2000
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:51 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 99):

In comparison, Boeing lists 155 orders for the 717, when 156 were manufactured on the assembly line, the difference presumedly being the first aircraft off the line which was retained by Boeing and eventually parted-out.

But Boeing no longer intends to make full prototype aircraft that aren't sold. For the 777LR, the testing airframes were intended to be sold to a customer.
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RichardPrice
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:51 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 100):
So why list it as an undisclosed customer? And why is there not one of these listed for the freighter model, will that prototype be one of the 18 on order?

I think you have gotten Leelaws point around the wrong way:

The 717 orders quoted do NOT show the Boeing retained aircraft in the totals.

Therefore theres circumstancial evidence for Boeing not putting their testbed 747-8 in the customer order sheets (unless they are reeeeeeeeally desperate, but I hardly think thats the case).
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:52 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 101):
But Boeing no longer intends to make full prototype aircraft that aren't sold. For the 777LR, the testing airframes were intended to be sold to a customer.

Boeing have done that in the past, the original prototype 747s were delivered to customers after certification.
 
leelaw
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:09 pm

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 102):
think you have gotten Leelaws point around the wrong way:

The 717 orders quoted do NOT show the Boeing retained aircraft in the totals.

Thanx for clearing that up Richard.

Additionally, IIRC, the first 772 manufactured and flown (S/N 27116, L/N 1, first flight June 12, 1994) wasn't added to the order tote until it was re-engined and sold some years later to CX (Delivered 12/06/00). Historical precedent doesn't seem to jive with the "Tankerman's" theory of Boeing itself being the first customer.

[Edited 2006-06-09 14:34:31]

[Edited 2006-06-09 14:35:47]
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
irobertson
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:21 pm

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 48):
I'll oblige. Maybe the Sultan of Brunei had grown exasperated with the A380 delays that he opted to trade-in his current 747 for a brand-spanking new 748I VVIP with a much more definite delivery date.

According to the A.net database, the Sultan of Brunei is the proud owner of the only A340-8000 Airbus has built to date. (For those unfamiliar with the variant, it's an A343 with an 8000nm range, fairly impressive). He should be damn happy with that and stop being so greedy!  Wink

I have no idea who this first 748i is going to, but I might add another vote in here for BA, who might just have started with one for now. Even if it isn't them, I'm quite sure that they WILL order the 748i at some point. Based on their relationship with Boeing and Airbus, it seems that Airbus is mainly running their short haul, while their long haul has historically been Boeing since the BOAC days. So no A380s in BA colors I doubt.

Does anyone else on here think that we're starting to sound like we're referring to a new BMW when we post about "748i"?  Wink
 
leelaw
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:26 pm

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 103):
Boeing have done that in the past, the original prototype 747s were delivered to customers after certification.

The very first 747 manufactured, "The City of Everett," was retained by Boeing and was used for several test programs over the years, as well as being in storage for long periods, before it was ultimately donated to the Museum of Flight in Seattle some years ago.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
bmacleod
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:28 pm

Well Boeing hasn't issued any press release yet, so I'm still holding my breath....  gasp 
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tockeyhockey
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:48 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 69):
I don't think it's because of ETOPS, but I do think they would go with the 748 because it has four engines.

4 engines 2 not be shot down by 1 SAM...

the president should be flying in a 757. best chances of avoiding surface to air missles.

anyone have that link to that movie of the italian airforce 757 doing a low pass over an airfield and then going straight up like a rocket ship?

the president will never fly in an a380. however, if the 747 line does eventually die, he will probably fly around in the space shuttle.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:56 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 93):
This will be the first test flight airplane, Boeing is the customer. It is needed to begin the FAA/JAA certification flight testing. They probibly needed to begin ordering long lead items for it.

But why does Boeing need to bother certifying a plane that (would still) have no customer orders? Seems a huge expense for no benefit.

The 747-8F will be built and enter flight-test. Boeing can use the information from that to help them with the 747-8I until such a time as a customer orders the plane, at which point a dedicated 747-8I test frame can be built, which will then be delivered to the customer at the end of flight-test and certification.
 
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semobeila
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:11 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 93):
This will be the first test flight airplane, Boeing is the customer. It is needed to begin the FAA/JAA certification flight testing. They probibly needed to begin ordering long lead items for it.

I completely agree - that's also the reason why they haven't gone public with the whole story...
 
katekebo
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:16 pm

Unless the testing and certification will be done by another company who will purchase and pay for the first airplane from Boeing, the test airplane can not show on the orders page. A prototype or testbed which is funded by Boeing can not be shown on the orders page because it would be against accounting rules.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:49 pm

Quoting Katekebo (Reply 111):
Unless the testing and certification will be done by another company who will purchase and pay for the first airplane from Boeing, the test airplane can not show on the orders page. A prototype or testbed which is funded by Boeing can not be shown on the orders page because it would be against accounting rules.

Not to mention if the purpose of this is to generate positive PR for the 747-8 by showing a customer, Boeing would look silly announcing they were the ones who ordered it.

And if Boeing did indeed need to build a 748I for certification and flight-test purposes even with no customers, why wait till now? Why not just list it with the initial batch of 748F orders when the product was launched? Doing it now, just before Farnsborough, just calls attention to it.

Sorry, but I don't buy this as Boeing trying to deflect comments about non-sales of the model by buying one themselves.
 
deltadc9
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:54 pm

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 108):
the president should be flying in a 757. best chances of avoiding surface to air missles.

anyone have that link to that movie of the italian airforce 757 doing a low pass over an airfield and then going straight up like a rocket ship?

the president will never fly in an a380. however, if the 747 line does eventually die, he will probably fly around in the space shuttle.

Missle countermeasures kind of moot that point. AF1 is a military plane with plenty of defensive measures and possibly some offensive ones.

Quoting Semobeila (Reply 110):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 93):
This will be the first test flight airplane, Boeing is the customer. It is needed to begin the FAA/JAA certification flight testing. They probibly needed to begin ordering long lead items for it.

I completely agree - that's also the reason why they haven't gone public with the whole story...

That is not how things work and Boeing or Airbus.

[Edited 2006-06-09 16:55:09]
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
scoliodon
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:06 am

Quoting PDXflyer31 (Reply 70):
I could have sworn that the Sultan of Brunei had a custom built A340...

Not only that..he gifted another A340 to his son..who for some stupid  mad  reason has left it unused!!! (I think I've seen its pic on A.net)

Coming to the topic..it was definitely ordered by the Saudis..for sure!!
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WestWing
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:12 am

Quoting Halibut (Reply 91):
I'm surprised it took this long for A-nett to have noticed !

Hey Halibut, A-net were not as asleep as you would think! What Wallace is saying is that last week Boeing added three 747s to the website. This three 747 order was duly noted by A-Net last week.

It was only when Boeing updated the May totals yesterday that we knew (and kudos to Dhefty for his quick posting) that one of the three was a 748i.

Cheers
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
 
miamix707
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:18 am

Quoting Glom (Reply 39):
assuming Condolezza Rice becomes the next president which she is most likely to become

Great lady, I'd vote for her.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 112):
Not to mention if the purpose of this is to generate positive PR for the 747-8 by showing a customer, Boeing would look silly announcing they were the ones who ordered it.

Exactly. Let's order ourselves a 747!!..hellooo?

This order is going to Fidel Castro.
 
lotsatLHR
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:03 am

I read as far as post 70-something. Seeing as there are some ridiculous guesses i'll try mine. . .


John Travolta?
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Devilfish
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:28 am

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 105):
According to the A.net database, the Sultan of Brunei is the proud owner of the only A340-8000 Airbus has built to date. (For those unfamiliar with the variant, it's an A343 with an 8000nm range, fairly impressive). He should be damn happy with that and stop being so greedy!

I doubt that he is proud and happy with it, as it had remained in Germany undelivered and unpainted with Brunei livery. Please note the captions. And I suspect it has to do with something else other than greed.

Quoting Scoliodon (Reply 114):
Not only that..he gifted another A340 to his son..who for some stupid mad reason has left it unused!!! (I think I've seen its pic on A.net)


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Quoting B707Stu (Reply 89):
Boeing didn't make a PR announcement



Quoting Stitch (Reply 112):
the purpose of this is to generate positive PR for the 747-8 by showing a customer,

Aha, I got it! Boeing, still holding deposits for undelivered 744s "convinced" PR's owner to forget his dream of an A380, and convert the order to a single 748i, as that is all the airline could afford, and their terminal could handle.

[Edited 2006-06-09 19:41:25]

[Edited 2006-06-09 19:47:35]
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ODwyerPW
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:36 am

I'm with TWFirst,
It's a new Airforce 1. What better way to kick start the Intercontinental Program than to get $250mil from your own gummit. (Tongue planted firmly in cheeck...flame off please!)
Seriously though, I bet it's a VIP plane.
learning never stops.
 
mikefad
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:39 am

Maybe an American C.E.O. or something. The tremendous wealth shift happening in the U.S. is creating some awfully rich people.

I wonder how $100 mil. yachts are selling these days?
 
AR385
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:53 am

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 107):
the president will never fly in an a380. however, if the 747 line does eventually die, he will probably fly around in the space shuttle.

You are probably being sarcastic  Smile But if you are not, Know that the Space Shuttle cannot fly.
 
Tom12
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:11 am

Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 76):
Abu Dhabi amiri flight, Dubai air wing

Yeah i agree, or possible Japanese Government?

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 79):
Quoting CV990 (Reply 79):
Great to know that Boeing have ONE ORDER for the great 747-8!!!!! I guess that plane goes for a great client....and that is BOEING of course!!!

Care to elaborate, or is there really no point to this post?

lmao!!

Tom  Smile
"Per noctem volamus" - Royal Air Force Bomber Squadron IX
 
LifelinerOne
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:29 am

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 107):
anyone have that link to that movie of the italian airforce 757 doing a low pass over an airfield and then going straight up like a rocket ship?

A shame the Italian AF doesn't have a B757...

Cheers!  wave 
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
Spruit
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:30 am

Surely a pre-owned 744 would make more business sense to a VIP than a brand new 747-8?

Correct me if I'm wrong here but it takes quite the "Business Person" to purchase a new jetliner of that size for that much money and as far as I know the ones that have that sort of money aren't in the market for a new jet or can justify the expenditure on one!

Just my 2 cents worth!

Spru!
E=Mc2
 
Joni
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sat Jun 10, 2006 5:02 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 112):
Missle countermeasures kind of moot that point. AF1 is a military plane with plenty of defensive measures and possibly some offensive ones.

I'm not quite convinced that the "missile countermeasures" on AF1 would work against any modern AA missiles, because the plane is such a huge target and not agile at all.
 
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N328KF
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sat Jun 10, 2006 5:07 am

Quoting Joni (Reply 125):
I'm not quite convinced that the "missile countermeasures" on AF1 would work against any modern AA missiles, because the plane is such a huge target and not agile at all.

That's OK, because if you understood it, that means that whatever AF1 is protected with (which is probably pretty much the same stuff they throw on military transports) would be public knowledge, and they probably feel that you do not Need to Know.
“In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.”
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tockeyhockey
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sat Jun 10, 2006 5:08 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 120):
Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 107):
the president will never fly in an a380. however, if the 747 line does eventually die, he will probably fly around in the space shuttle.

You are probably being sarcastic Smile But if you are not, Know that the Space Shuttle cannot fly.

it can't?!?!? damn. that would be a sweet ride.

Quoting Areopagus (Reply 122):
Quoting AR385 (Reply 120):
Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 107):
the president will never fly in an a380. however, if the 747 line does eventually die, he will probably fly around in the space shuttle.

You are probably being sarcastic But if you are not, Know that the Space Shuttle cannot fly.

Maybe he's just hoping the Pres will ride the Space Shuttle, considering its stellar mission completed success rate.

i didn't say that. wink wink.

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 123):
Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 107):
anyone have that link to that movie of the italian airforce 757 doing a low pass over an airfield and then going straight up like a rocket ship?

A shame the Italian AF doesn't have a B757...

Cheers! wave

sorry -- it's the RAF.

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photoga...lery/Videos/2006-757_departure.wmv
 
deltadc9
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sat Jun 10, 2006 5:47 am

Quoting Joni (Reply 125):
I'm not quite convinced that the "missile countermeasures" on AF1 would work against any modern AA missiles, because the plane is such a huge target and not agile at all.

First of all the 747 is known to be more agile than one would assume. With 70 passengers max, it is basically flying empty too.

As for missile countermeasures, information about Air Force One's anti-missile systems is considered particularly sensitive and is classified, and not publicly available except for a few famous leaks, which I would never repeat on a public forum.

What I will say is that the leaks revealed only one type of weakness. I would assume that the leak has led to further changes, and an attack based on the leak would likely not succeed.

That being said, to assume they have not employed the latest and best technology in the world would not be wise. It took them several years to integrate all the "special" systems, and the planes are updated often. AF1 protection is top priority and expense is not an consideration.

On top of that, there are fighter and surveillance escorts, ground and space based surveillance, and tactics which is the most important part of its protection. Plus, there is the reality that if someone did shoot at Air Force One, a military response is certain. All that combined, AF1 is pretty safe.

Quoting Spruit (Reply 124):
Surely a pre-owned 744 would make more business sense to a VIP than a brand new 747-8?

I agree. Spend the money on the interior. The plane itself usually wont see much use compared to commercial service so who cares if it is 1/2 or 3/4 thru its serviceable life?
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
ikramerica
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:45 am

Quoting Mikefad (Reply 119):
Maybe an American C.E.O. or something. The tremendous wealth shift happening in the U.S. is creating some awfully rich people.

Drink that Kool-Aid, fellah.

If any "wealth shift" is happening it's to other nations from the USA.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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Devilfish
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:22 am

Speculation on this latest unidentified 748i order is mentioned at the end of the FI article on the LT A380 Interior Video. I started a thread but goofed and it's not transferred yet from MilAv.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
JAL
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:25 am

Just one, I wonder who could that be?
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
ha763
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:35 am

Quoting Blsbls99 (Reply 83):
Air France the first 777-300ER (did I get that right??)

Actually, JAL got the first 2 773ERs built, JA731J (ex-N5016R) and JA732J (ex-N5017V).
 
brendows
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:43 am

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 127):

sorry -- it's the RAF.

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photoga...e.wmv

Nope, it's a 752 belonging to the Royal New Zealand Air Force. RAF doesn't have any 757s.
 
trex8
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:36 pm

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 128):
First of all the 747 is known to be more agile than one would assume. With 70 passengers max, it is basically flying empty too.

As for missile countermeasures, information about Air Force One's anti-missile systems is considered particularly sensitive and is classified, and not publicly available except for a few famous leaks, which I would never repeat on a public forum.

What I will say is that the leaks revealed only one type of weakness. I would assume that the leak has led to further changes, and an attack based on the leak would likely not succeed.

That being said, to assume they have not employed the latest and best technology in the world would not be wise. It took them several years to integrate all the "special" systems, and the planes are updated often. AF1 protection is top priority and expense is not an consideration.

On top of that, there are fighter and surveillance escorts, ground and space based surveillance, and tactics which is the most important part of its protection. Plus, there is the reality that if someone did shoot at Air Force One, a military response is certain. All that combined, AF1 is pretty safe.

modern systems can stop IR and laser guided systems (but probably not the Starstreak) but if you have an old fashioned eg Blowpipe/Javelin with some sort of command to line of sight guidance, there is nothing really to stop that. The good news is they don't even make the RF CLOS systems anymore, the UK have been very good about who gets them and they are very difficult for the average terrorist to use and hopefully your ground security is going to be good enough there is no nut on the runway approach. But some nut with even an anti tank wire guided weapon could take out a plane at low level say on landing/takeoff and there will be diddly any of the modern directed countermeasure systems can do about it though the person launching it is probably on a suicide mission as they will have to be stationery till impact.
 
Joni
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:17 pm

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 128):
.

As for missile countermeasures, information about Air Force One's anti-missile systems is considered particularly sensitive and is classified, and not publicly available except for a few famous leaks, which I would never repeat on a public forum.

I don't doubt the details of any countermeasures are secret, however likely a professional wouldn't need to wreck her brain to figure out the main points of what they entail.

Modern AA missiles can destroy fighter planes (which are fast, agile and have countermeasures, too) so I remain unconvinced a 747 can be made significantly secure against them - the best solution is to hope most threats are simple in nature and don't fly into areas where you're liable to be shot at.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-300

http://www.mbda.net/site/FO/scripts/...eFO_contenu.php?lang=EN&noeu_id=91

Anyhow, now we're on the borderline between civil aviation (AF1) and military aviation (the missiles).
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:56 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 111):
And if Boeing did indeed need to build a 748I for certification and flight-test purposes even with no customers, why wait till now?

Probably they were thinking that they would have sold a few frames by now. I imagine that certifying both types simultaneously saves money but I don't know.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
bmacleod
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:22 am

I'm assuming $70 crude is the main reason we haven't seen any airline passenger 747-8 orders as BA and AF are only currently planning more 777 orders.

It's unlikely we'll see NW the launch customer of 747-400 order the 747-8 with their financial situation at least until late 2007, though it would look nice in NW colors.
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
CHI787ORD
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:48 am

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 8):
Who would order one 748? Would it make sense?

Maybe boeing is making it for themselves.... as a model aircraft.
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:19 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 92):
This will be the first test flight airplane, Boeing is the customer. It is needed to begin the FAA/JAA certification flight testing. They probibly needed to begin ordering long lead items for it.

Maybe I'm just tired, but I really hope this was supposed to be sarcasm...
 
lehpron
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:52 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 111):
Not to mention if the purpose of this is to generate positive PR for the 747-8 by showing a customer,



Quoting Stitch (Reply 111):
Doing it now, just before Farnsborough, just calls attention to it.

the PR must be successful then since we are talking about it.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:11 pm

According to aviation columnist Geoffrey Thomas in a posting to Orders it is a VIP aircraft for a Middle East country and goes with the 20 UFO 777's.
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:13 pm

According to aviation columnist Geoffrey Thomas in a posting to another forum it is a VIP aircraft for a Middle East country and goes with the 20 UFO 777's.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:52 pm

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 136):
It's unlikely we'll see NW the launch customer of 747-400 order the 747-8 with their financial situation at least until late 2007, though it would look nice in NW colors.

Personally, I think that it's far more likely that NW has ordered those 15 unidentified 777-300ERs and 5 unidentified 777-200LRs, as a post here on a.net a while back with a quote from a Boeing 787 program manager said that the red tail has committed to the 777 despite Ch. 11. In the process, NW would convert all of their 747-400s to freighters for NWA Cargo. Why? NW wants to right-size their capacity to Asia, not expand capacity. The 773ER right-sizes it, the 748 expands it.

BTW, I have a friend who is an A330 captain for NW, and he has semi-confirmed this rumor.

[Edited 2006-06-11 15:54:06]
B721/722/731/732/733/735/73G/738/739/742/752/753/762/763, A300/319/320, DC-9/10, MD-82/83/88/90, ERJ-140/145, CRJ-200/700, Q200, SF340, AS350
 
Johnny
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:34 pm

I guess if there are no sales for the B748I at years end, Boeing can put that airplane on hold again.

There were so many trials to develope a B744-replacment from Boeing, but none of them was accepted by the airlines.

Exactly the same seems to happen right now.More and more airlines go the 777-way instead of looking for newer 747´s on pax flights.

I am really looking forward to years end - which could be the B748i´s end as well.

Johnny  Smile
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:40 pm

Quoting Johnny (Reply 143):
Exactly the same seems to happen right now.More and more airlines go the 777-way instead of looking for newer 747´s on pax flights.

I wouldn't get too smug, since that also means they aren't looking for A380s, either... And since they're buying 777s now, that means they won't be interested in A370s later...
 
Johnny
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:46 pm

@ Stitch

No, i think a lot of them go for B777-300ER AND A388.Because the gap between them is big enough to have a need for two big airplanes.

The A388 could be used on city-pairs with more than one daily flight(today) and the B777-300ER could be used on typical B744-routes with a seat-factor of 80-90% (today)

My guess.

Johnny  Smile
 
11Bravo
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:29 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 142):
Personally, I think that it's far more likely that NW has ordered those 15 unidentified 777-300ERs and 5 unidentified 777-200LRs

That would require authorization by the bankruptcy court. It would be an extraordinary, even unprecedented, development. It's completely unrealistic to think that the court would allow NW to take on this kind of additional debt. We are talking $5 billion (+/-) dollars here. No way.

It seems to me this order looks more and more like SV or QR with an outside shot at EK or EY. Geoffrey Thomas is telling us the VIP B748I and the 20 B777s are going to the same customer. I think that just about eliminates any potential customer outside the Middle East.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
brendows
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:43 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 145):
No, i think a lot of them go for B777-300ER AND A388.Because the gap between them is big enough to have a need for two big airplanes.

That might be the case for some airlines, but for other airlines, the 787 and 748 might fit better into their route structure. There will be a need for the 748, both as a freighter and pax airliner, Boeing wouldn't have built it if there was no need for it. The earlier proposals for a 747X didn't sell simply because they couldn't offer the necessary operating savings over the 744, something the 748 can, mainly because of the newer engines.

Quoting Johnny (Reply 145):

The A388 could be used on city-pairs with more than one daily flight(today) and the B777-300ER could be used on typical B744-routes with a seat-factor of 80-90% (today)

Why would an airline go from flying twice daily to once a day with a bigger bird, if they have to potential to fill two flights? That reduces the flexibility for the customers dramatically! Johnny, understand that the A388 doesn't fit the needs of all airlines, if it did, it would have sold more than the 159 orders it has sold since 2001...
 
Johnny
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:00 am

@ Brendows

Sorry, i but i think the B777-300ER and A388 combo is a very likely combination for future sales.They complement each other very well!

The A388 has sold very good so far, and as Tim Clark mentioned in his last interview the problem of it is the availability.
If you order now, you get not before 2011,2012. He is asking for a siginficantly higher production-rate to cover the coming demand.

You can find the link for that interview on www.airliners.de.

Johnny   Smile

[Edited 2006-06-11 18:10:54]
 
na
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RE: Boeing Has First 747-8 Passenger Customer

Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:14 am

Most airlines operating the 744 have not yet made any decisive plans on how to replace their Jumbos in the next decade (or even later) so its very premature to judge about the fate of the 747-8I. Remember how long it took before Boeing got the first orders for the 773ER after they launched the program? If the 747-8I proves to be an economical airplane as advertised it will recover lost ground for sure.

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