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piercey
Posts: 2188
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:07 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:59 pm

Quoting Jetpixx (Reply 48):
I am surprised no one has made mention of CAK...it seemed fairly backwaters until about 10 years ago - then FL came in - then they got F9 - and it is a booming little airport. They have really ramped up the flights to Florida and the northeast thanks to FL.

In fact, they are the only NE Ohio airport with service using PTVs. The new terminal expansion is coming along swimmingly and service is sure to grow even a little more.

Good for CAK!

I was just about to mention them! It also helps that the Akron/Canton area is one of the fastest growing areas in the midwest, compared to its neighbor CLE which is one of the fastest shrinking.
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
 
tonytifao
Posts: 800
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:22 pm

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:22 am

All I know is MLB needs new carriers  Smile
 
panam330
Posts: 2162
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:15 am

After a decade of declining numbers and service cuts, SYR is starting to rise again. Numbers are climbing, and major service has been added in the past couple years. We currently have the following flights out of SYR:

US: BOS, LGA, PHL, DCA, BWI, PIT, CLT, MCO (Sat. only seasonal)
NW: DTW
CO: CLE, EWR
DL: CVG, ATL, JFK
AA: ORD, DFW
UA: IAD, ORD
B6: JFK, MCO (starts July 20)

Not quite what it was in the 1980s with the Piedmont/USAir mini-hub, but we're getting back up there! I'm hoping for DEN service on a UAX jet, MIA on AE, MSP to return on NW, and IAH on COex. Most of those are long shots, but one can dream, right?  

EDIT: Forgot about DL/Freedom's new service to JFK.

[Edited 2006-06-14 19:16:34]
 
MaartenV
Posts: 261
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:16 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:23 am

Eindhoven (EIN) has been growing pretty nicely over the last few years, despite stringent noise regulations, mostly because of Ryanair.

Their latest addition is Wizz Air who will be switching AMS for EIN on their route to BUD.
Its all about supply and demand...
 
AAflyguy
Posts: 318
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:59 pm

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:53 am

Palm Springs, CA (PSP) continues to reach new heights also. Pax traffic is up 7.2% YTD through May, an increase of 56K to 828,110. Every month this year has set a new record, when comparing like months in previous years. 2005 was a record year, with a total of 1,419,087 passengers. If the current pace of growth is sustained through yearend, as expected, traffic will far surpass 1.5M for 2006!

While the market is still seasonal, local permanent population is swelling by nearly 20,000 annually. It's evident that more locals (or their visitors) are using the airport by the increase in vehicles and revenue from the public parking lot operation.

This summer, seat capacity will be up about 10% over last year, with UA* offering new SFO regional jet service. AA will maintain 2x daily DFW service, up from the usual 1x daily MD80 trip. US* will continue its daily LAS trip that began last fall, along with a high amount of capacity to PHX.

PSP lost 2x weekly Allegiant service to LAS in mid-May, but it's already apparent the impact will be nonexistent. In May, airport traffic was up 11.3% over last year, and G4 only accounted for 452 of the 11,557 additional passengers. The enplaned load factor was 82% for all carriers, while G4 was at 40%. Some carriers adjusted schedules up or down for the month, resulting in a small increase in seat capacity of 3%. So demand far outpaced capacity.

Construction of a new Regional Concourse facility is currently underway, to open in late Spring '07. It'll have 8-gates and 15K sq.ft. of enclosed space. All carriers operating regional aircraft, with the exception of CO* to IAH, will operate from this facility upon completion. Also, a new and greatly expanded security screening checkpoint began operating in Feb of this year, to ease the backups experienced during peak departure days in winter. And another two lanes can be added when demand requires it.

Next winter season should be rather interesting, as there are several new or expanded service opportunities in the works. If even half of what is being discussed is operated, PSP should surpass 1.6M passengers in 2007!

The combination of serving a strong tourist destination coupled with a rapidly growing local population base will help the airport's traffic continue to rise...and it's certainly one of the most charming and relaxing airports I've come across in the US. Even with the increased size and use, it will remain that way.

It's a sleeper airport that almost no one seems to notice is growing, and remarkably without the aid of G4, F9, FL, B6, NK, or WN. I include G4 because the LAS service only lasted 5mos. I expect some of those low-cost carriers will play a role in the future of PSP.

AAflyguy
 
j.mo
Posts: 653
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2002 12:29 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:20 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 46):
Far more then FAT:

UAX - SFO, LAS, LAX
SkyWest (DL) - SLC
HP - LAS
Mesa (HP) - LAS, PHX
AE - SAN, LAX
QX - PDX, SEA
G4 - LAS
AA - DFW

And the best!
MX - Guadalahara!

Unless this is a new service, American Eagle does not fly to SAN out of Fresno.

And Fresno doesn't have alot of expansion room. The "new" terminal only has 4 jetways (w/room for 2 more, displacing the Skywest E120's).

The Mexicana flight parks at a mobile home without windows. So the traffic may be increasing but the airport will not be able to handle much mainline traffic. That is why Southwest is not here.
 
twal1011727
Posts: 449
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:36 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:01 am

Quoting Tonytifao (Reply 51):
All I know is MLB needs new carriers

It would be nice...DL has reduced their schedule to 3 mainline/1 CRJ to ATL and 1 lone DCA CRJ flt. This is the same airport that back in 1997 when US pulled out DL had 7 MD88s with good load factors. I'm still amazed that its not an all RJ station.

IMO - the only way this airport is gonna takeoff is if MCO is swallowed by a big sinkhole.
KD MLB
 
MFEFlyer
Posts: 357
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:22 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:07 am

Well, in MFE's case, it has not reached its goal of 60 percent in traffic. We are at 42%. Roughly 360,000 passengers per year, with HRL leading the passenger role at about 400,000. Once we reach 60%, then the terminal will be expanded, cargo area and such. Recently, MFE got a new jetbridge, gate # 5 for ASA. And will be expanding its current main runway to about a usable 8,500 ft. with an optional 10,000ft into the next decade or so. Currently MFE is trying hard to lure more airlines and service areas. McAllen has 4 airlines, at the moment, with 6 destinations, (one more than HRL).

CO/BTA- IAH,MEX
AA -DFW
DL (ASA)-ATL
G4-LAS,SFB
Valley Approach.....
 
Rampero
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:03 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:25 am

Ponce (PSE) Puerto Rico has only 4 airlines :

Jet blue 1 daily to JFK
Continental 1 daily to EWR
Delta (ASA) sat & wed to ATL
Cape Air 5 daily to SJU

Nice for a small airport . . .



MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Omar
MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Hector A Rivera Valentin


[Edited 2006-06-15 02:31:39]
"Ponce es Ponce" y lo demas es parking...
 
QXatFAT
Topic Author
Posts: 2336
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:51 pm

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:31 am

Sorry FATFlyer. I know! I feel stupid! When I was at work today, I was like, DOOOOOHHHHHH! I forgot the F9 operated by QX flight to DEN!

I am not worthy  Sad
Don't Tread On Me!
 
FWAERJ
Posts: 2815
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:23 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:42 am

FWA (my hometown airport) sucks right now, but their new incentive package is drawing a lot of interest from existing and possible new carriers.

Right now, FWA has:
-UA Express (Mesa/SkyWest) 5x daily to ORD on CRJ-200s
-American Eagle 4x daily to ORD, 2x daily to DFW (all ERJ-145s)
-CO Connection (CommutAir) 3-5x daily to CLE on B1900Ds
-NW Airlink (Mesaba/Pinnacle) 5x daily to DTW on SF340/CRJ-440s
-DL Connection (ASA/Comair) 5x daily to CVG and 3x daily to (of course) ATL (all CRJ-200s)

However, I could see one or more of the following by year's end:
-B6 2x daily to JFK and 1x daily to MCO on E190s
-COEx (ExpressJet) 2-3x daily to EWR on ERJ-145s
-UAX (Mesa/SkyWest) 2x daily to DEN on CRJ-700s
-FL 3x daily to ATL, 1x daily to MCO, TPA, and/or RSW on B717s
-F9 to DEN 2x daily on CRJ-700s or A318s (if UA doesn't start first)
-If all else fails, G4 to LAS and/or SFB 4x/week
B721/722/731/732/733/735/73G/738/739/742/752/753/762/763, A300/319/320, DC-9/10, MD-82/83/88/90, ERJ-140/145, CRJ-200/700, Q200, SF340, AS350
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5011
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:51 pm

Quoting J.mo (Reply 55):
And Fresno doesn't have alot of expansion room. The "new" terminal only has 4 jetways (w/room for 2 more, displacing the Skywest E120's).

The 2 additional gates with jetways would be on the north end of the concourse, near the taxiway. Perfect for WN to be close to the taxiways. The gates are listed as Gates 16 and 17 on the terminal map at www.flyfresno.com.

Skywest would be able to park the Brasilias at what is marked as Gate 9 on the terminal map. Adjacent to the jetways they use for the regional jets. The map is not updated yet to show the FIS.

There are several empty ground level gates available also.
http://www.fresno.gov/flyfresno/images/Fltgdtrm_large.jpg

Preliminary plans have been made for additional gates with jetways at FAT. The existing single story concourse section will be replaced with a 2 story section. Construction start is probably between 2009 and 2011. First up is the new rental car center, then the baggage claim remodel and some ticketing lobby remodeling, followed by the concourse.

Quoting J.mo (Reply 55):
The Mexicana flight parks at a mobile home without windows.

Actually it is a prefab building similiar to what was used at SJC for many years. Going that route proved to be a good decision at FAT since Bakersfield has had to delay the start of MX service due to construction delays with remodeling and expanding the old BFL terminal into a FIS.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
rmcf
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 8:50 pm

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:50 pm

Girona (GRO), north of Barcelona, in Spain, has experienced an amazing increase of capacity because of Ryanair (it's one of its hub in Spain). Now other low-cost airlines have started to serve this city, as a secondary airport to the Barcelona region.
bye! rmcf
 
FAT5DEP
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:26 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:24 am

Speaking of WN at FAT. During the budget hearings for the airport my boss told me that there was some talk that the if Southwest were in FAT it would have a detrimental effect on existing airline service. When I see the minutes I'll try to get some more details. But WN typically enters markets and for the most part creates business as opposed to taking away. Any thoughts on this?

I think the money spent on FAT's new concourse could have been better spent by making the whole thing two story with all jetways. Its a neat design but I would have gone for a little more practicality and forward planning.
Oh, that I had wings like a dove! I would fly away and be at rest.
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7088
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:51 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:33 am

We do need more air carriers at MLB. I heard a rumor B6 is supposed to start service to JFK w/ E-190's. CO was just down here looking at services to EWR. I wish we got something diffrent than our MD88, CRJ a/c. I wish UA, and CO or B6 would bring ERJ's into MLB.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5011
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:03 am

Quoting FAT5DEP (Reply 63):
Speaking of WN at FAT. During the budget hearings for the airport my boss told me that there was some talk that the if Southwest were in FAT it would have a detrimental effect on existing airline service. When I see the minutes I'll try to get some more details. But WN typically enters markets and for the most part creates business as opposed to taking away. Any thoughts on this?

I'm waiting for the minutes too since I could not attend the hearings.

I think it would stimulate the market not hurt it. I think those comments are out of concern that the OALs would reduce flights since their smaller planes. Maybe also a fear since so many flights left FAT in the 1980s. I've also heard some people express an unfounded concern that since OO has a maintenance hanger at FAT they might move it out if WN came.

I always try to describe the example of SMF to people. Prior to WN's arrival in June 1991 Sacramento had little service and was thought of as an ag and government town (sound familiar?), it was the Big Tomato. Most SMF locals drove to the Bay Area for better fares and more frequency and more choices. Then Southwest arrived. The airport went from 1,800,000 boardings in 1990 to 2,560,000 in 1992, an increase of what, about 40%.

I would expect a similiar result at Fresno.

Quoting FAT5DEP (Reply 63):
I think the money spent on FAT's new concourse could have been better spent by making the whole thing two story with all jetways. Its a neat design but I would have gone for a little more practicality and forward planning.

I agree, the concourse design sounded neat but once it was finished I wasn't as impressed. I would have also preferred to see the money spent on the entire concourse not just an extension.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
FAT5DEP
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:26 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:35 am

And like you said, those two open gates at the end of the concourse would be perfect for WN. The RJs and the Brasilias would just have to move down. But that brings up an interesting question about the displacement of aircraft if more traffic gets upgraded to mainline or if new airline service starts.

Are the gates at FAT common access gates or do the airlines have certain rights to them that would prevent other airlines from coming in and booting the RJs out of the jetway gates? The traffic levels at FAT haven't come to this yet. However, I noticed that HP/US's A319 parks at gate 11 (jetway) which is the Delta Connection (Skywest) gate but HP/US (Mesa) operates the RJ's out of gate 5 (no jetway). I like it and it makes sense but its interesting.
Oh, that I had wings like a dove! I would fly away and be at rest.
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5011
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:53 am

Quoting FAT5DEP (Reply 66):
Are the gates at FAT common access gates or do the airlines have certain rights to them that would prevent other airlines from coming in and booting the RJs out of the jetway gates? The traffic levels at FAT haven't come to this yet. However, I noticed that HP/US's A319 parks at gate 11 (jetway) which is the Delta Connection (Skywest) gate but HP/US (Mesa) operates the RJ's out of gate 5 (no jetway).

I'm not 100% sure what the current lease setup is, so I don't want to comment. I know there is talk that the ticket areas will become more common use in the remodel project but I'm not sure what is happening with the gates.

Interestingly, when the concourse plan was first put into effect most of the airlines did not want to use a jetway. I was told even Skywest was not originally going to park RJs at the jetways. But then everything changed. Mesa may have stayed with a ground level gate with no jetway for a reason like cost.

FYI, I did see in the new budget that the airport wants to go to a 24/7 operation this year instead of a 20/7 schedule.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
QXatFAT
Topic Author
Posts: 2336
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:51 pm

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:36 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 65):
I always try to describe the example of SMF to people. Prior to WN's arrival in June 1991 Sacramento had little service and was thought of as an ag and government town (sound familiar?), it was the Big Tomato. Most SMF locals drove to the Bay Area for better fares and more frequency and more choices. Then Southwest arrived. The airport went from 1,800,000 boardings in 1990 to 2,560,000 in 1992, an increase of what, about 40%.

Okay, but, where would all the PAX come from to fill the new flights by WN? I would say that a lot of the people that travel to SFO and LAX are going there to pass up a extra flight on their international vacation flights to Mexico, Canada, and Europe. Another thing is they travel to OAK, SMF, and SFO to go to Hawaii. Now I think a Hawaiian Airlines service would be great in FAT even if it was just seasonal. But I do not see a lot of PAX coming from other areas to travel out of FAT. You just have the surrounding cities of Madera and possibly Merced, and possibly Visalia. No many other cities. BFL when gets MX service would take away from the FAT service I believe.

In short, I think that WN would not do to much to our travel at FAT. Only if it were new routes and not the same FAT-PHX, FAT-LAS, FAT-LAX, FAT-DEN. They would have to start FAT-MDW, FAT-OAK would be awesome if that is possible with a 737.
Don't Tread On Me!
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5011
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:05 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 68):
Okay, but, where would all the PAX come from to fill the new flights by WN? I would say that a lot of the people that travel to SFO and LAX are going there to pass up a extra flight on their international vacation flights to Mexico, Canada, and Europe.

They go to the other California airports for all destinations. I spoke with someone yesterday who just got back from New England with their family. They drove to San Jose to take WN to PVD, which was not non-stop.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 68):
Another thing is they travel to OAK, SMF, and SFO to go to Hawaii.

Not always, I'm leaving this summer from FAT to go to the Islands.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 68):
BFL when gets MX service would take away from the FAT service I believe.

BFL will impact LAX more than FAT's flights. By the way did you see my post earlier today about Aeromexico getting Fresno approval? It will be interesting to see if they start.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 68):
In short, I think that WN would not do to much to our travel at FAT.

I disagree. FAT's capture rate of the market area population is low. In 2005 FAT served just under 1.2 million enplaned/deplaned passengers or about 600,000 roundtrips.

There are 1.8 million people in the 6 county area from Merced to Delano. So about 1 RT for every 3 people in the area was flown from FAT.

Now compare that to San Luis Obispo which is the same distance from Bay Area or Southern California airports. SBP handled about 173,000 roundtrips in 2005. There are 263,242 people in SLO County. So 1 RT for roughly every 1.5 people.

Of course there are other factors so this is a very simplistic model. But the point is even if FAT handled 1 RT for every 2 people the airport would see 50% more passengers. Impossible? Well considering that just the single 5 day a week Mexicana flight will cause an increase of about 5% I don't think so.

Plus I have spoken with local business people who tell me that many of their employees, suppliers, etc fly into other California airports from around the US then drive 3 to 4 hours to Fresno. I think there is a lot of traffic waiting to be grabbed at FAT.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 68):
Only if it were new routes and not the same FAT-PHX, FAT-LAS, FAT-LAX, FAT-DEN. They would have to start FAT-MDW, FAT-OAK would be awesome if that is possible with a 737.

My information is that WN in the past had interest in flights to OAK, LAX, LAS and PHX. That was WN's analysis and I think they do a pretty good job of finding markets that they can stimulate.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
QXatFAT
Topic Author
Posts: 2336
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:51 pm

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:18 pm

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 69):
Now compare that to San Luis Obispo which is the same distance from Bay Area or Southern California airports. SBP handled about 173,000 roundtrips in 2005. There are 263,242 people in SLO County. So 1 RT for roughly every 1.5 people.

SLO is a college town. So you have all of the college students flying in and out for hollidays, then you have the sports. I flew into there from PHX just because I needed to get to Pismo Beach and did not want to drive my car. So the numbers are counting Cal Poly and Questa college. Two pretty good size ones.

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 69):
Plus I have spoken with local business people who tell me that many of their employees, suppliers, etc fly into other California airports from around the US then drive 3 to 4 hours to Fresno. I think there is a lot of traffic waiting to be grabbed at FAT.

People that I work with in the Mineral and Vitamin industry for cattle and zoo's fly out of FAT all the time with HP/US and tell poeple (customers and suppliers including buisnessmen from Asia, Europe, Central and South America) to fly to SFO and get on the UAX flight to FAT. They always do it. So buisness people I know fly FAT. Another is my dads work PG&E. All the ex. fly into FAT even from the BAY AREA! I just cant see WN coming in here and making things better. To much service to the same darn airports. 4 airlines flying to the same airport multiple times in one day, low load factors thats all I can think of FATFlyer. Sorry. Agree to disagree I think is what it comes to. If I am wrong and you are right, you have a free flight to the islands on me  crazy 

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 69):
Not always, I'm leaving this summer from FAT to go to the Islands.

Is there a page I can go to to see the % of people that fly out of FAT to connecting flights to the islands? All I know of people flying out of FAT for on package vacations is on QX to SEA for their Alaskan Cruz
Don't Tread On Me!
 
pensacolaguy
Posts: 484
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 9:41 pm

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:43 pm

Quoting QXatFAT (Thread starter):
Are there some airports starting to get some mainline aircraft now? More frequencies?

Here at PNS.
Since the beginning of this year. (2006)
1 Additional FL flight to ATL (Total of 5)
1 Additional DL flight to FLL (Total of 2)
The come back of PNS-CVG on Comair, 1 flight.

Passenger numbers arn't great though, compared to last years.
Month Pax % change from month previous year
Jan 2006-111,373 +0.16% (Heavy Fog)
Feb 2006-111,911 -4.44% (Heavy Fog)
Mar 2006-142,015 -7.30% (Seat Capacity drop?)
Apr 2006-136,745 -3.32% (No Idea?)
May 2006-152,939 -4.32% (No Idea?)

Current flights are:
FL ATL 5x (5 717)
DL ATL 8x (6 MD88, 1 CRJ, 1 CR7)
DL FLL 2x (2 ERJ-145)
DL TPA 3x (3 ERJ-145)
DL MCO 4x (2 ERJ-145, 2 ERJ-135)
DL CVG 1x (1 CRJ-100)
AA DFW 7x (6 ERJ-140, 1 ERJ-145)
AA ORD 1x (1 ERJ-135/145)
US CLT 4x (2 CRJ-900, 1 CRJ-700, 1 CRJ-200)
NW MEM 3x (3 CRJ-200)
CO TPA 3x (3 Beech 1900)
CO IAH 6x (6 ERJ-145)

No word on "Festival Airlines"...
Airport expansion, no word on start date for construction.
 
Leneld
Posts: 600
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 9:00 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:25 am

For what I hear Redmond, Oregon RDM is experiencing alot of growth with the area current population boom....Probably within the next 10 years it could be Oregon second busiest for commercial traffic surpassing EUG........................
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5011
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:15 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 70):
So buisness people I know fly FAT.

Talk to the owners of some of the FAT charter companies like Air Fred. They get lots of business from people who have problems flying in and out of Fresno. I've also had lots of people tell me they drove from elsewhere. Glad the PG&E crowd is flying commercial, someone once told me they were using a corporate plane to come here.

Also don't forget Fresno generates something like 20,000 Amtrak passengers per month. Most cities only handle a small number. More of those might be flying if things were different.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 70):
If I am wrong and you are right, you have a free flight to the islands on me

LOL, another one would be nice or maybe QX to SEA or YVR??? Actually this flight is already free because I've got a ton of miles. Consultants do lots of travel and I've done the work for almost 20 years.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 70):
SLO is a college town.

So is Fresno: Fresno State, Fresno Pacific, Fresno City, the law school, and the rest.  Wink But seriously I went to CP years ago. Most of the students drive or use Amtrak. Having the college does attract other travel, non-student travel though. But Chico is also a college town, Chico State. About 214,000 in the MSA and only 35,000 RTs a year. So the college bit does not always hold up.

OK, so let's use Wichita, KS to compare to Fresno. I'm not as familiar with the Wichita market but there are similarities (and differences) with Fresno. Wichita MSA population is about 600,000. In 2005 the airport handled 1,486,000 passengers or about 743,000 roundtrips. That would be over 1 roundtrip for every 1 person in the area.

Nationwide domestic travel in 2005 was about 660 million enplanements. US population estimate for 2005 was about 297,000,000. So the US generates over 2 domestic roundtrips per person.

I just think FAT could generate much better numbers when Fresno County alone is over 900,000 people. Our rate is horrible.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 70):
I needed to get to Pismo Beach

And we have Yosemite to build traffic.  Wink

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 70):
Is there a page I can go to to see the % of people that fly out of FAT to connecting flights to the islands?

I can't think of one right now. Probably airport admin has that number. I used to have a total number around but I don't remember which old data file it is in.

I just saw Chico's when I pulled their numbers, it was 1,000 per year to HNL out of CIC with many more using SMF. So FAT would be a lot higher, probably enough to support Aloha flights.  sly 

I do know a group of 6 people who 2 weeks ago did Eagle FAT-LAX then AA to the islands, plus others I work with who leave from FAT next week so its not just me.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 70):
4 airlines flying to the same airport multiple times in one day, low load factors thats all I can think of FATFlyer.

4??? Its only 1 to any Bay Area airport, UAX and then 2 to any Southern California airport, UAX and AmEagle. Everything else is codeshare. Or is QX going to do FAT-LAX?????  scratchchin 
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
dangould2000
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:25 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:37 am

Menorca (MAH) is expanding rapidly, more and more airlines are starting service there, Easyjet is one of them, the airport is also struggling to cope,

and a new terminal and a new runway are being built
Next Flights:- wherever the airline sends me
 
SmithAir747
Posts: 1906
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:30 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:09 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 60):

Hi! I am also a Fort Wayne, IN, resident (FWA is therefore my home airport, too), even though I am currently living in London, UK.

I'm curious: Where did you find the information about B6, FL, and F9, and the additional COEx and UAX services from FWA? I haven't heard anything about what's happening at FWA since I moved to London 2 years ago.

I'd like to know more about what's happening at FWA, especially regarding the interest it has been getting from existing and new carriers for more services to more cities.

If these extra services do eventually happen from FWA, it would be a real boost to FWA and make more cities accessible nonstop from there!

So, FWAERJ or ANYone else familiar with FWA, please let me know what's happening at "home"!

SmithAir747
I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made... (Psalm 139:14)
 
QXatFAT
Topic Author
Posts: 2336
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:51 pm

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:47 pm

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 73):
So is Fresno: Fresno State, Fresno Pacific, Fresno City, the law school, and the rest. But seriously I went to CP years ago. Most of the students drive or use Amtrak. Having the college does attract other travel, non-student travel though. But Chico is also a college town, Chico State. About 214,000 in the MSA and only 35,000 RTs a year. So the college bit does not always hold up.

There are other small colleges in SLO I am sure of but the point I am getting across is that the population is majority college students. Fresno is NOT majority college students. The sport travel does good for FAT because of the good football team. Loyal fans traveling abroad to watch against Kansas schools and Oregon schools  Smile not so much more now for the wrestling team  Sad

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 73):
And we have Yosemite to build traffic

We have Yosemite yes but how many forginers do you see that fly into FAT just for that? They usually go to SFO or LAX and rent a car to drive to these places. Even people within the USA. Yosemite does not seem to be a big thing for FAT. Maybe I am wrong. Hopefully the racetrack for some reason will go in and that will draw in more people. (I will have to ask my dad to see if he still has the plans for the racetrack...he is the senior electrical engineer for PG&E out of the Madera/Yosemite/Chowchilla offices.)

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 73):
So FAT would be a lot higher, probably enough to support Aloha flights

Please oh please come here Aloha!

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 73):
4??? Its only 1 to any Bay Area airport, UAX and then 2 to any Southern California airport, UAX and AmEagle. Everything else is codeshare. Or is QX going to do FAT-LAX?????

We could only hope  Wink But maybe sometime in the near future with a Q400 to connect to Mexico cities. I tried asking that if we would get new service out of FAT to another airport besides PDX, SEA, and DEN and they said probably not right now although load factors for QX are very good. But what I was trying to get at was LAS with 4 flights. G4, HP/US, UAX, and then WN if they come here. That is to much! Us Fresnians love to gamble yes, but thats well over 600 seats a day to LAS. To much. HP-737, G4 MD-82?, UAX-Saab, possibly if WN comes in another 737. Does HP still continue an CRJ into LAS?
Don't Tread On Me!
 
toxtethogrady
Posts: 1861
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2000 12:33 pm

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:54 pm

Orlando Sanford is probably near the top of the list. If you want to talk about foreign countries, the numbers are much greater.
 
QXFLYINGCOUG
Posts: 91
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 5:57 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:50 pm

Quoting Flywithken (Reply 27):
I remember UAX flying EAT/YKM/PSC to SEA. Now all that service is gone. With added passenger demand in PSC flying out other than to SEA, i expect this to grow. PSC has many non-stops to other cities besides SEA. Non-stop to Las, Vegas, SLC, and DEN. Why live in YKM and fly or drive to SEA when it's a short drive away to PSC? But for EAT (Wenatchee, Wa) i wish there were more than one carrier and they still have only 4 flights per day, down from 5. Robert NWDC10

I remember this too when UAX used to fly to EAT back when I was pretty young. I'd hope that in the coming years there could possibly be some more destinations available from our little airport as the new landing system is installed. This will be a great addition because in the winter months when the passes are very dangerous to drive over many people turn to flying to SEA on QX but the weather in the Wenatchee Valley can be pretty bad too and many of the flights get canceled. Maybe in the coming years we'll be able to get a direct PDX or GEG flight. Really Wenatchee is going through a pretty big population and business boom and I would imagine these flights could be supported well whether they are on QX or GQ.

I do like the fact that MWH has a non-stop flight to PDX on GQ because my Dad designed the new terminal there (and also in ALW) because they are both beautiful buildings that deserve to be used.

[Edited 2006-06-18 09:58:25]

[Edited 2006-06-18 09:59:22]
--GO COUGS--
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5011
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:05 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 76):
There are other small colleges in SLO I am sure of but the point I am getting across is that the population is majority college students.

No other colleges except the 2 (well 1 small private thing with a couple of hundred students but that doesn't impact anything). And the majority of the market population is actually not at the colleges. San Luis Obispo city has a population of roughly 44,000 with only about 30% college age (18 to 24) and not all of those are students, some just live there. Plus the SLO city population is actually slowly going down.

But the airport serves all of the county which has over 263,000 people and the colleges do not represent that high of a percentage to the county. The area is actually becoming a retirement mecca now.

I know the area quite well since I went to undergrad school there and have owned a vacation home and investment property in the area for many years.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 76):
To much. HP-737, G4 MD-82?, UAX-Saab, possibly if WN comes in another 737. Does HP still continue an CRJ into LAS?

I've always figured that if WN comes in and starts LAS then UAX would be the one to blink. Skywest operates that as an at-risk route meaning UAL does not support the route. Profits or losses are Skywest's responsibility.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 76):
We have Yosemite yes but how many forginers do you see that fly into FAT just for that? They usually go to SFO or LAX and rent a car to drive to these places. Even people within the USA. Yosemite does not seem to be a big thing for FAT. Maybe I am wrong.

More then people realize and we actually miss out on many more. Scenic has done well by flying international visitors from Vegas to Merced then bussing them to Yosemite for day and overnight trips. Reading travel boards online I always see people wondering how to get from Fresno to Yosemite.

Somewhere I had a study of the visitors. Not a high percentage of Yosemite visitors use FAT but it was a significant % of airport traffic. I think that is one reason the airport sees much higher rental car traffic then other airports its size.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 76):
Hopefully the racetrack for some reason will go in and that will draw in more people. (I will have to ask my dad to see if he still has the plans for the racetrack...he is the senior electrical engineer for PG&E out of the Madera/Yosemite/Chowchilla offices

I thought they were now talking about putting the NASCAR track at the ag show grounds in Tulare?
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
iowaman
Posts: 3864
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:19 am

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 31):
and Delta to ATL.

Don't forget DL to MCO too.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 46):
And the best!
MX - Guadalahara!

Guadalajara is the correct spelling. Wink

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 69):
In 2005 FAT served just under 1.2 million enplaned/deplaned passengers or about 600,000 roundtrips.

I don't think 1.2 million is enough to support WN.
 
cairo
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:41 pm

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:27 am

The amazing small airport trend I think is best illustrated by XNA.

http://www.nwara.com/

Created out of nothing to a 50 flights a day airport in hardly anytime at all - and they're still adding on. Check out American's departure list.

I think its the trend of the future = not only for airports, but for everything. People are starting to enjoy living in smaller/medium sized cities more.

Cairo
 
toxtethogrady
Posts: 1861
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2000 12:33 pm

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:04 am

"After a decade of declining numbers and service cuts, SYR is starting to rise again. Numbers are climbing, and major service has been added in the past couple years. We currently have the following flights out of SYR:"

Amazing what you can buy with incentive money. SYR-IAH might be possible if the program wasn't limited to the top 20 markets out of SYR.
 
lazyshaun
Posts: 550
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 5:50 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:06 am

Erm, my local aiport is not small, actually its LHR.

Always new routes from VS, and Jet recently started 2 daily to DEL. And Qatar announced it will send their A346 here.

But all this news is always posted, so its not really small...
I came. I saw. I conquered
 
toxtethogrady
Posts: 1861
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2000 12:33 pm

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:11 am

"The amazing small airport trend I think is best illustrated by XNA."

Nothing amazing; the Wal-Mart headquarters is just down the road.
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5011
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:37 am

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 80):
I don't think 1.2 million is enough to support WN.

Some estimates are that FAT has anywhere up to a 50% driveaway factor, or another 1.2 million. So WN could get a large traffic flow right away.

10 flights a day X 7 days/week X 52 weeks X 137 seats X 70% load factor is about 350,000 RTs. WN would only need to capture about half of the driveaways to reach that.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
AirlineBrat
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:40 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:55 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 85):
Some estimates are that FAT has anywhere up to a 50% driveaway factor, or another 1.2 million. So WN could get a large traffic flow right away.

10 flights a day X 7 days/week X 52 weeks X 137 seats X 70% load factor is about 350,000 RTs. WN would only need to capture about half of the driveaways to reach that.

I always wondered why this part of the San Joaquin Valley with a regional population of over 1 million residents has such limited air service compared to cities half that size around the nation. I think Fresno is a sleeping dragon ready to wake. I would expect that WN service in FAT would create the same effect that SMF experienced when WN entered that market. Look at all the new air service since then..... New York, DC, Hawaii and most major hubs with mainline aircraft. Now that I think about it, both cities/regions are similar is size although Sacramento is the hub for government and has a strong industrial sector.
I'm leavin on a jet plane. Don't know when I'll be back again....
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5011
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:07 am

Quoting Airlinebrat (Reply 86):
I always wondered why this part of the San Joaquin Valley with a regional population of over 1 million residents has such limited air service compared to cities half that size around the nation.

The recessionary type economy that Fresno and the Valley went through for many years hurt. But Valley unemployment is now at its lowest levels in 20 years and continuing to drop. That increases the demand for everything. That is why you see the up-scale retail chains and restaurants now opening in the area.

We should start seeing airlines respond to the improved regional economy as the better numbers get entered into their planning models.

Interestingly, many of the locals I spoke with weren't sure if Mexicana would succeed in the market. You know the old thoughts, "those people" are all poor with no money or they could not get on an airplane because of a lack of documents. Mexicana's 94% load factor has many locals surprised. I hope the domestic airlines notice that result also. I think there is a broad-based untapped market here.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
NWDC10
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 10:15 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:14 am

In EAT (Wenatchee, Wa)-1 airline QX and only 4 flights to SEA/day. Their runways isn't long enough for regional jets and i think they are favoring QX. No competition, high fares. No wonder most people drive to Sea-Tac than fly out. I don't expect growth at EAT. No jobs there, not really any growth reguardless of what a recent poster said. QX use to have 5 flights, now only 4 flights to SEA. Anyone else realize that with airline growth, the local economy grows as well.? I guess Wenatchee, Wa don't care for growth or they would do all they can to attract more airlines to the area. Robert NWDC10
 
KLM685
Posts: 1508
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 12:41 pm

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:21 am

One of the clearset example of small airports on the big rise has to be TLC, an airport east of Mexico City. It's the airport all the LCC's have starting their base as a strategy to lower cost and compete with the 2 legacy carriers at MEX.

In less than one year TLC has seen the arrival of 2 big LCC's ( Volaris and Interjet), Air Madrid ( Spanish carrier), Click & Aerolitoral (Mexicana's and Aeromexico's subsidiary carriers), among others! It's just insane over there, the terminal is probably 5 times smaller than the amount of passangers that are arriving there. The bag reclaim is just nuts, security is sometimes let beside to avoid delays, etc...


Cheers!
KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
 
FAT5DEP
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:26 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:36 am

I would also agree there is an untapped market here at FAT. Take me for example. A couple of months ago I priced a trip to PDX. FAT-PDX on QX would cost me $340 rt. To drive to SMF and fly WN or QX SMF-PDX would cost me $120 rt plus $60 for gas to drive. The fares on WN and QX out of SMF were about $60 1 way but almost 3 times as much out of FAT. From an economic standpoint, guess which one I would choose? My co-worker drives to SMF frequently to fly WN either to SEA or BWI. Even if I was still a college student with hardly any money I would consider SMF or even Amtrak. I am sure many others do the same. I think the Southwest effect would work great here at FAT. It would bring fares down and force other airlines to be competitive.

As for Hawaii, our family purchased a package to Maui on DL. We flew FAT-SLC on Skywest and then SLC-OGG. I know it is kind of a weird routing but I like flying and so does my family. Plus we flew on a 767-400 for the first time. It was nice. There wasn't much difference in price flying out of FAT as opposed to LAX or SFO so I think Aloha would be welcome here as well. What part of Hawaii are you going to FATFlyer?
Oh, that I had wings like a dove! I would fly away and be at rest.
 
newkai
Posts: 329
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:39 pm

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:31 pm

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 52):
After a decade of declining numbers and service cuts, SYR is starting to rise again. Numbers are climbing, and major service has been added in the past couple years. We currently have the following flights out of SYR:

And of course the latest good news is the addition of an additional DCA flight (four then) and two more LGA flights by US Airways (ten then). That's a quasi "shuttle" operation on the later!

http://www.syracuse.com/poststandard...iness-3/115018946618100.xml&coll=1

"Kevin Schwab, an airline service consultant to the Metropolitan Development Association, said Syracuse will have more US Airways flights to New York City than any other Upstate city."
 
FWAERJ
Posts: 2815
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:23 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:21 am

Quoting SmithAir747 (Reply 75):
I'm curious: Where did you find the information about B6, FL, and F9, and the additional COEx and UAX services from FWA? I haven't heard anything about what's happening at FWA since I moved to London 2 years ago.

With the exception of my contacts with Dave Young (VP of Air Serivce Development at FWA), most I've heard about B6/FL/UAX/COEx and such to this point have been rumors. However, FWA's new incentive plan kicks in on July 1st and they've said that new service is being lined up and waiting to be announced, so I'd expect a big announcement sometime after the 4th of July.

Oh... I forgot about a possible return of US, too... this time to PHL. Since Philly-based Lincoln Financial has a major presence in Fort Wayne (and is adding jobs, too), I wouldn't be surprised if they fly 2-3x daily CRJs to PHL.
B721/722/731/732/733/735/73G/738/739/742/752/753/762/763, A300/319/320, DC-9/10, MD-82/83/88/90, ERJ-140/145, CRJ-200/700, Q200, SF340, AS350
 
kcrwflyer
Posts: 2616
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 am

RE: Small Airports On The Rise

Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:33 am

Arg....Nothing at all for CRW. Numbers are down due to the loss of independence and lack of enough seats to keep the numbers up.

Continental uses the 50 seater twice a week or so to IAH opposed to the 37 seater..

That about sums up the past half year.

Near complete market suffication...

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