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samair
Topic Author
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:23 am

Smoking Airlines

Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:02 am

Hello again!
I cant remember weather this has been discussed before but which airlines can you smoke on or which services any ideas?
thanks again
sam!
the captain has now dimmed the lights for take off this is a routine procedure for flights during the hours of darkness!
 
tu204
Posts: 2177
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:36 am

RE: Smoking Airlines

Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:06 am

Well, this doesn't really qualify, but in the last several months, Dalavia has had two cases of some dumbass going into the lav to light up. To the point - the 214 has very sensetive smoke detectors that are linked to a Halon fire extinguisher in the lav. Guess what happened...
I don't know of any airlines that officially allow smoking.
P.S. Sorry for going off topic, thought it might be interesting to a few.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
IFEMaster
Posts: 4164
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:17 am

RE: Smoking Airlines

Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:10 am

I can't think of any airlines that allow smoking. I think it's safe to say that all reputable airlines have smoking bans in place.
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978
 
CaptainJon
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:21 am

RE: Smoking Airlines

Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:11 am

speaking of which, i flew CO internationally. they said federal law (US) provides penalties for breaking that law. how can they enforce that law when overseas, over international air. would you be subject to the destination countries laws while in air, the country you are currently over? i mean, i am not a lawyer but how can US fine someone when they arent even in the US? Or what if they arent even citizens?
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Smoking Airlines

Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:18 am

Quoting CaptainJon (Reply 3):
i mean, i am not a lawyer but how can US fine someone when they arent even in the US? Or what if they arent even citizens?

I've got a better idea. Just invite them to smoke outside.

Seriously aircraft (and ships at sea) are not law-free zones. I'm not a lawyer either, so can't quote you chapter and verse, but I would imagine that it would not be an issue where the destination country also prohibits smoking on board an aircraft - and I can't think of a country that does not. I would say that the destination country has jurisdiction, and if they decline then it would be the laws of the country where the aircraft are regulated that would apply.
 
FWAERJ
Posts: 2815
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:23 am

RE: Smoking Airlines

Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:27 am

This has been mentioned many times before on a.net... it's almost like an Airbus vs. Boeing or a pro/anti-Wright conversation.

Smoke-free carriers are pretty much the global standard now due to passenger comfort and safety reasons. Heck, even Aeroflot (based in Russia, where over half of the population smokes) is smoke-free now. However, there may still be a few filghts that still allow you to puff away on your Marlboros. For example, NW did have a sole 742 flight from LAX to NRT that allowed smoking until 2002, but NW made it smoke-free like all their other global routes.

P.S.: I don't smoke (and never will), and I hate the tactics of Big Tobacco.
B721/722/731/732/733/735/73G/738/739/742/752/753/762/763, A300/319/320, DC-9/10, MD-82/83/88/90, ERJ-140/145, CRJ-200/700, Q200, SF340, AS350
 
flflyguy
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 7:26 pm

RE: Smoking Airlines

Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:28 am

In general, an aircraft belongs to the country in which it is registered. So if the airplane is registered in the US, you are considered in US territory whilst aboard that aircraft. Therefore, the laws of the US generally govern. If the aircraft was registered in France, it would be French law, etc.
The views expressed are my own, and not necessarily those of my employer.
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Smoking Airlines

Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:33 am

Quoting FLFlyGuy (Reply 6):
In general, an aircraft belongs to the country in which it is registered. So if the airplane is registered in the US, you are considered in US territory whilst aboard that aircraft. Therefore, the laws of the US generally govern. If the aircraft was registered in France, it would be French law, etc.

Yes but, if it's a CO EWR-BRS flight and some jerk gets caught smoking in the loo (oh sorry, bathroom) I don't think CO is going to kidnap him and fly him back to EWR to throw the book at him (or her). They would turn her (or him) over to the bobbies and let Her Majesty take care of them.
 
GQfluffy
Posts: 3072
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: Smoking Airlines

Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:41 am

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 1):
that are linked to a Halon fire extinguisher in the lav. Guess what happened...

Wouldn't this kill that pax, and potentially harm others?
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
tu204
Posts: 2177
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:36 am

RE: Smoking Airlines

Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:50 am

Well, I was told that a vessel is the sovreign territory of the country that it is registered in. I remember a coleague telling me about a few times that defectors from the U.S. were rushed onto Aeroflot planes where they asked for political assylum from the captain. This was a long time ago (30 years) so I do not know if what he told me was true and if this is true TODAY.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
Newark777
Posts: 8283
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:23 am

RE: Smoking Airlines

Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:54 am

Quoting ANother (Reply 7):
I don't think CO is going to kidnap him and fly him back to EWR to throw the book at him (or her).

Placing someone under arrest is not kidnapping.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Smoking Airlines

Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:01 am

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 10):
Placing someone under arrest is not kidnapping.

OK, I'll rephrase that "I don't think CO is going to ask the gentleman, or lady to kindly fly him back to EWR on the very next flight so they can throw the book at him (or her)".
 
777klm
Posts: 557
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:23 am

RE: Smoking Airlines

Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:02 am

-Cubana CU ?
-Air India AI (some flights)(stated on their website)

I'm a bit amazed by AI still operates smoking flights!
Home airport: AMS
Next flight: CNX - BKK
 
Newark777
Posts: 8283
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:23 am

RE: Smoking Airlines

Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:04 am

Quoting ANother (Reply 11):
I don't think CO is going to ask the gentleman, or lady to kindly fly him back to EWR on the very next flight so they can throw the book at him (or her)

Agreed, in most cases you see the offender being handed off to the authorities in the arrival airport. I was just playing devil's advocate.  Wink

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
Marambio
Posts: 1145
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:41 am

RE: Smoking Airlines

Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:59 am

I think some German airlines operate summer-holiday charters where smoking is allowed on the very last rows of the aircraft.

Saludos,
Marambio
Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo
 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 3:57 am

RE: Smoking Airlines

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:03 am

Quoting Marambio (Reply 14):
I think some German airlines operate summer-holiday charters where smoking is allowed on the very last rows of the aircraft.

Not anymore, as far as I know was Air Berlin the last airline which allowed smoking on selected charter (or holiday) flights. A few buddies and I flew DTM-PMI in September 2004 and we were allowed to smoke, when we flew back a few days later (it was already October), smoking was not allowed anymore. So Air Berlin banned smoking on October 1st, 2004.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
LO231
Posts: 2227
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:55 pm

RE: Smoking Airlines

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:58 am

Quoting 777klm (Reply 12):
I'm a bit amazed by AI still operates smoking flights!

I flew AI September 2005 and the flight was all non-smoking!

Regards,
LO231
Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
 
CaptainJon
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:21 am

RE: Smoking Airlines

Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:32 am

Quoting ANother (Reply 4):
Seriously aircraft (and ships at sea) are not law-free zones. I'm not a lawyer either, so can't quote you chapter and verse, but I would imagine that it would not be an issue where the destination country also prohibits smoking on board an aircraft - and I can't think of a country that does not. I would say that the destination country has jurisdiction, and if they decline then it would be the laws of the country where the aircraft are regulated that would apply.

i dont mean that but i am technically no longer over US territory so why/how is US law still applied? Than in that case, when over international waters/land, how do drinking laws apply? clearly mostly everywhere is 18 but would an 18 year old be allowed to drink? i know in ships/vessels once in international waters it is allowed (i think)...now i know they wont have to use GPS to verify if they are over countries where it is illegal to have alcohol period but i cant see how US law in enforcable for stuff like smoking. i can see an airline giving a fine since its against the contract of carriage...but how can Federal Law collect the fine? i am sure if they dont pay it they wont be allowed back, but still...
 
ZE701
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:37 pm

RE: Smoking Airlines

Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:52 am

Regarding the laws in the air, here is the definitive answer: (I work in the aviation security and law enforcement areas so luckily, and for once, I know a bit about this.)

The ICAO (International Civil Aviation Authority) was formed back in the early 1950s to standardise laws whilst on board International flights. The Tokyo, Hague and Montreal conventions (1963, 70 and 71 respectively) created offences and laws to do with (amongst other things) hijacking etc, which had never been an offence whilst in international airspace before.
In short, the ICAO makes the laws concerning behaviour on international flights, and around 95% of countries have signed up to abide by the laws. Usually (for a smoking offence say) the airline merely fines the individual concerned. If the whole thing turns violent however, there are 2 options. The first is to allow the Police in the country of disembarkation to charge the individual as if he had committed the offence in the country in question. The second is for him to be sent back to the country of embarkation for them to deal in the same way. For more serious offences the individual may be extradited to his own country, by agreement with the other countries involved. It usually turns out to be option 1 by the way.

Unfortunately, what happens when the airline is from a country which is not a member of ICAO, I'm afraid I don't know! Hopefully someone can enlighten me.
Knights of columbus!
 
CaptainJon
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:21 am

RE: Smoking Airlines

Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:55 pm

Thanks for the answer....but as for drinking laws how is that governed--the countries laws where hte plane is registered, the laws of international airspace, or laws of the destination. so if a 18 year old wants to drink on a CO flight leaving EWR, does he have to wait until he is over the atlantic to start drinking legally? or will CO refuse since US law says u need to be 21. if they leave TLV where it is 18, would they allow a pax to drink then? i know this has nothing to do with smoking but curious to know how the law is applied there. .. now i was never carded on an airplane before in hte past just curious to know...
 
ZE701
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:37 pm

RE: Smoking Airlines

Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:07 pm

Well Jon, I believe thats less of a law question, more of a company policy thing I think. As far as I am aware, there are no LAWS whatsoever on who can and can't drink on an international flight. (Probably best if at least the pilots abstain mind you!)
I do however believe that all airlines use their own countries' legal age as a guideline on who to serve. Although I'm not sure you will find too many FAs checking passports to be sure, they probably just apply the good old law of common sense.
Drunkenness in the air however IS an offence under ICAO laws and can / will see you proper nicked on your arrival!

Any Flight Attendants, please back me up.... or correct me if I'm wrong!

Regards
ZE701.
Knights of columbus!
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7088
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:51 am

RE: Smoking Airlines

Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:07 pm

No US airlines do it period. If they did, it would cause kaos.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Smoking Airlines

Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:06 pm

Quoting CaptainJon (Reply 19):

Unfortunately, what happens when the airline is from a country which is not a member of ICAO

I think it is moot. The only jurisdiction that I can think of that is not a Member of ICAO (which is a UN organisation) is a Chinese island between Japan and the Philippines - and they apply the international agreements even though they haven't* signed them.

(*Well they did sign some of them, when they represented China at the UN, but that is another story)
 
Halophila
Posts: 479
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:44 am

RE: Smoking Airlines

Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:35 pm

Quoting FLFlyGuy (Reply 6):
In general, an aircraft belongs to the country in which it is registered. So if the airplane is registered in the US, you are considered in US territory whilst aboard that aircraft.

If it's like maritime law, then the flag the vessel carries determines the laws enforced. Example, which may be of interest: All US-flagged research vessels (the majority of which happen to be owned by the US Navy) are DRY - no booze whatsoever. No, you won't be landed in jail if you're caught drinking, but the captain has the power to confine you to quarters for the rest of the cruise (would be harsh if you're at the start of a 4 week cruise), then kick you off. I'd imagine similar aviation laws apply. While we're not considered US territory as a US-flagged vessel (we still have to undergo customs formalities etc), we do have to obey US laws, even though we're tied up in ports of countries which have very different laws.
Flown on A36 310 319 320 321 332 333 343 388 350 707 717 727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 741 742 743 744 74SP 757 753 762 763 772 773 77W 787 D10 DC9 M11 M80 M87 CRJ CR7 CR9 CR1000 120 135 145 175 190 146 F28 F50 F70 F100 Tristar
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Smoking Airlines

Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:54 pm

Aha! It's the Tokyo Convention: Convention On Offences And Certain Other Acts Committed On Board Aircraft

For your reading pleasure
 
IL76
Posts: 2238
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 5:43 am

RE: Smoking Airlines

Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:18 pm

 
David L
Posts: 8551
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Smoking Airlines

Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:28 pm

Quoting IL76 (Reply 25):

Thanks for the link though they seem to be just First and Business.
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Smoking Airlines

Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:34 pm

... and don't actually seem to be flying.
 
David L
Posts: 8551
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Smoking Airlines

Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:50 pm

Quoting ANother (Reply 27):
... and don't actually seem to be flying.

Doesn't matter - they allow smoking.  biggrin 
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Smoking Airlines

Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:04 pm

Quoting David L (Reply 28):

Doesn't matter

OK, I understand the addiction is quite serious, with some people say its harder to give up than drugs, but I can't believe that people would rather not go anywhere, and smoke than to go somewhere and be inconvenienced for some hours.


 Cool
 
klmcedric
Posts: 696
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 11:19 pm

RE: Smoking Airlines

Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:57 pm

www.smintair.com


They want to start up a smokers/luxury airline flying DUS-NRT with 744ER
with only 128 seats!

They claim that back in the day when smoking was allowed, cabin air was actually fresher and of higher quality because fresh outside air was
continuously being pumped in the cabin. This method resulted in higher
fuelcosts and thats why today's airlines just recirculate the same air through
a series of filters without adding fresh outside air!
 
David L
Posts: 8551
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Smoking Airlines

Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:16 pm

Quoting ANother (Reply 29):
but I can't believe that people would rather not go anywhere, and smoke than to go somewhere and be inconvenienced for some hours.

It's not quite that bad. With the current state of affairs I do go places, e.g. New York, Chicago, and am inconvenienced. I would just prefer the alternative.  Smile

And before anyone jumps in with their "right to clean air", I'm talking about the idea of having a few, extra flights which are clearly advertised as smoking flights. I suspect I'll have a long wait, though!
 
David L
Posts: 8551
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Smoking Airlines

Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:20 pm

Quoting KLMCedric (Reply 30):
This method resulted in higher
fuelcosts and thats why today's airlines just recirculate the same air through
a series of filters without adding fresh outside air!

Well, we all know that's not true. I think the more reasonable claim is that more air is recirculated nowadays, not that fresh air is not introduced at all.

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