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deltadawg
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FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:11 am

With the additional order for 25 more 737's a couple of months ago I thought I would have heard some rumblings about some significant changes at FL on new routes, cities and/or additional flights.

I know they are fighting an uphill battle on slots for the proposed DCA-MDW/IND routes but that is all I have heard as of late.

Does anybody have any substantial news concerning expansion, routes, etc.?

Thanks
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:29 am

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Thread starter):
I know they are fighting an uphill battle on slots for the proposed DCA-MDW/IND routes but that is all I have heard as of late.

There's no battle at all. The DOT summarily dismissed the FL application for DCA-IND/MDW and awarded the two slots to US for DCA-SRQ.
 
quickmover
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:45 am

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Thread starter):
With the additional order for 25 more 737's a couple of months ago I thought I would have heard some rumblings about some significant changes at FL on new routes, cities and/or additional flights.

I was thinking the same thing today. Checked the schedule and they are bringing back a 2nd daily BWI-DFW and adding a 3rd BWI-CLT. I'm curious as to how some of the new MDW routes are doing (MDW-MSP, BOS, EWR, DFW). They recently started HPN service, but I haven't heard how the loads are up there. They recently made a press release about moving to the Humphrey terminal at MSP and have secured 2 gates. I wouldn't be surprised to see some expansion up there.
 
Jeremy
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:25 am

All I have heard lately is that BWI-FPO will discontinue and they plan on a CLT-FPO.
You are now free to be sexually harassed and then terminated for filing a complaint--Southwest Airlines to me.
 
usairways85
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:47 am

Well BWI-FPO is no longer on the route map so i don't know if that is a seasonal change or a permanent discontinuation. I would suspect they will wait till the late fall/early winter if they start CLT-FPO when MYR and SEA are in their seasonal suspensions.
 
quickmover
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:13 am

Quoting Jeremy (Reply 3):
All I have heard lately is that BWI-FPO will discontinue and they plan on a CLT-FPO.

Wow.
Did BWI catch any connecting traffic going on to FPO?

Unless they have something else planned for CLT (which is certainly a possibility), the only non CLT feed they would have would be possibly ATL, MDW, and BWI. I guess they could still do a BWI-CLT-FPO routing.

Sounds like CLT is working out well.
 
travatl
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:13 am

From what I've observed, all of the MDW flights are doing really well with the exception of DFW. But the service is still new, so we'll see....
1 Interview. 24 years. 3 Airlines.
 
quickmover
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:26 am

Quoting Travatl (Reply 6):
From what I've observed, all of the MDW flights are doing really well with the exception of DFW. But the service is still new, so we'll see....

I believe ATA, at the urging of Southwest, is really pushing hard on MDW-DFW. They added a 4th flight recently and the connections with WN are pretty big at MDW. The Dallas-Chicago market is big enough for both and when AMR pulls out of MDW, it should get better IMO. Wonder if FL will pick up another gate at MDW?
 
FWAERJ
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:31 am

Personally, I'm hoping for some new cities. Where are they going to put all those new 737s?

IMO, FL could do a bang-up job out of FWA with service to ATL, EWR or LGA, and MCO. Yeah, I know that FL serves IND already, but my hometown airport needs more (and cheaper) service. Plus, I think that FL will restart TOL only when hell freezes over, as TOL has had the worst LCC track record. Not only did TOL lose FL and play a part in TransMeridian's demise, but I hear that G4 isn't doing that hot at TOL, either.
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Bicoastal
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:49 am

"Quite?" I'll be Q-U-I-E-T about the importance of proofreading before posting.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
quickmover
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:29 am

IND seems to have picked up alot of flights lately. FL held out for a long long time before they even started service at IND. The same can be said for CLT, DTW, and SRQ. I think they have been pleasantly surprised with all of them. STL and BNA would work out the same way IMO. The 717 would be a perfect fit to the biggest part of the country from both STL and BNA. It seems that some of the cities they have held out on the longest have turned into some of their best.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:22 pm

GPT-FLL and GPT-TPA resume in August.
 
avconsultant
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:50 pm

I've noticed these guys go dark after they've been in the light for awhile.

For instance, the IND - West Coast started a few weeks back along with the exercise in orders all with lots of press. Also, they appear to focus on business during the peak season and very loud with announcements during the slow season.

They're bringing on a lot of aircraft, so something will be brewing.

I am surprised they have not ventured into the Carribbean and more domestic markets like PHX, AUS/SAT, STL, CMH/CVG, DSM, SAN.

With BWI & IND as focus cities, I'm surprised they have not established a Western focus city- AUS/SAT. Then again, I'm not sure about the O&D and direction of those markets.
 
Cactus739
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:55 pm

Odds are if there was any news..... you might possibly have seen it on here?

I mean...jetBlue got gate assignments in Pittsburgh and there's a thread on that.....  yawn 
You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
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gunsontheroof
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:57 pm

Any word on how SEA-ATL is doing in its first month?
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srbmod
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:51 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 11):
GPT-FLL and GPT-TPA resume in August.

Coinciding with the reopening of the Beau Rivage (Got an email the other day from the B.R. announcing that they were taking reservations for an August reopening).
 
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deltadawg
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:48 pm

As far as new cities I was hoping to hear something about STL as well as CUN. I remember they were going to start CUN last year before the hurricane beat them to it but I thought some airlines were already starting service back into there by now. Maybe they are waiting for the winter season to start back into CUN.

I am still so surprised that they still have not service at STL. I know it has been rumored for quite some time but it just seems really ripe for the picking as well as OKC.

It seems to me that they are going to have to put some focus somewhere else late this year or next year with all the new a/c coming. I would like to see some expansion in the West coast such as RNO, SMF, ONT and PHX but I would be very surprised to see that any time soon. One could look at old EA routes and almost pick the new ones for FL it seems sometimes - so maybe theres more to come in the Caribbean.

Thanks everyone for the responses.
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
quickmover
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:24 pm

I would think that PHX going into the winter would be a lay up.
 
gr8slvrflt
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:03 pm

Cancun is very doubtful at this time as is additional flights to Freeport. The most often mentioned new cities these days are Phoenix, St. Louis, and San Juan. AirTran continues to add frequencies in many markets. In addition, AirTran is spending large sums on IT, facilities, and equipment.
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:22 am

Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Reply 18):
The most often mentioned new cities these days are Phoenix, St. Louis, and San Juan.

Yup, I'd say PHX and STL are almost a given... not so sure about SJU, though.

But what about BNA? It's as big of a missing gap on FL's route network as STL is despite the immense WN presence at both cities. I know someone that lives near BNA who hates paying through the nose on DL to get to ATL (he files WN whenever he can). Since WN will probably serve ATL when hell freezes over, it's FL that needs to break the monopoly DL enjoys on this route.
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avconsultant
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:26 am

Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Reply 18):
Cancun is very doubtful at this time as is additional flights to Freeport

I thought FL was granted authorty to fly CUN?
 
CentPIT
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:18 am

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 13):
Odds are if there was any news..... you might possibly have seen it on here?

I mean...jetBlue got gate assignments in Pittsburgh and there's a thread on that.....

 Yeah sure Where are the rules for what not to post? You are real mature!
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quickmover
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:29 am

MSP-LAS looks like a great route for FL. over 2000 daily o/d.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:39 am

I wouldnt be surprised if they start ATL-MLB. They would make a profit in that market. A daily 717 or 737-700 would be great. It didnt surprise me that the two slots were awarded to US as they have a hub. MCO-FPO would do well. So good luck.

MCOflyer
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flyinryan99
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:08 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 8):
play a part in TransMeridian's demise, but I hear that G4 isn't doing that hot at TOL, either.

Once again, please provide proof of this. First off, yes FL left TOL twice. First time was because of the reorganization of VJ and FL and they cut it. Second time was because FL couldn't get a guarantee from local fliers to fly the more expensive fares (particularly Owens Illinois and Owens Corning) and one Port Authority member ticking off the airline (no longer on the board). TOL didn't play any part in TMA's demise (where did you get your information?). TOL was the only (maybe SYR was too) profitable route they flew. We were the only station to have the 757 fly TOL-SFB-SJU and back. Their load factors were consistently in they low 80s. As for G4, provide your proof. Since the beginning of the year these are the passenger load numbers for 2006 and their load factors:

January 8,003 74%
February 9,085 82%
March 11,754 86%
April 9,708 82%

I will have the may numbers here tomorrow...Of course we don't know what the yield is, but my sources say they are well in line with what G4 likes. Again..where do you get your information?

Back to the topic at hand. A couple of nights ago I was looking at the MDW schedule and it looks like with the seasonal reduction to SRQ, AirTran added a flight to BOS. I figure DFW might take a while to bring in brand recognition, but as it was mentioned above earlier, I would think things would get better starting in September on that route. I would think the next round of route announcements are going to be later this month early next month to coincide with starting the routes early 4th Quarter. I honestly would like to see them march into OKC and run 2x daily to MDW and 3x daily to ATL and for kicks throw in 1x daily to MCO. There are still plenty of other routes they can attack. I would think they'll announce 2 more stations by the end of this year since they seem to be doing really well managing new city growth.

Ryan
 
srbmod
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:45 am

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 20):
I thought FL was granted authorty to fly CUN?

After Hurrican Wilma rolled through there last fall, FL delayed the start of CUN and have yet to announce a start date on the route. For all practical purposes, they're probably never going to start CUN service in the foreseeable future.

I would venture to guess that FL will fly into MEX within the next few years.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:30 am

Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 24):
Once again, please provide proof of this

Well, G4 did drop their 4x weekly flights from TOL to LAS... that alone is proof IMO.

And the story of TMA's demise here on a.net is well-known... however, I wouldn't have been surprised if TOL-SFB was profitable. OTOH, most here know as a fact that TMA's SYR route was not profitable and also about the coverups TMA used to disguise their actual condition to the airport authority (which really ticked off B6).

Perosnally, I think that TOL can support another try from FL or possibly B6. Given their past track record, though, I see FWA getting a Big 5 LCC first because airlines these days don't want to take chances with an airport with a lousy track record. But, then again, FWA is my hometown airport.  Big grin
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7e72004
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:11 pm

I expect in the next week or two that FL will announce more cities from IND in addition to more flights--i am expecting the new cities will be on the east coast although i have heard that SEA is a strong possibility.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
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deltadawg
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:43 pm

Quoting Srbmod:

Quote:
would venture to guess that FL will fly into MEX within the next few years.

I think that would be one of the best routes and decisions FL would make. That would really break the monopoly DL & AM have on that market. And for some reason it just seems that FL would take off really well on that type of route.

Beyond that OKC also seems ripe for the picking - both eastward and westward bound. At least a LAS run couple days a week would generate good numbers possibly as well as an LAX, ATL, MCO & MDW.

Beyond that I still do not understand why they have not started an ATL-LIT route. DL has killed passengers on this route for decades. Fares on this route have always been in th $750-900 range and I am sure a x2 ATL along with a couple of times per wee to MCO would do great even if it were at $450-550 range r/t - that would still be cheaper than DL 90% of the time.

Well, we shall see.

Thanks for all the input.
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
quickmover
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:17 pm

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 27):
I expect in the next week or two that FL will announce more cities from IND in addition to more flights--i am expecting the new cities will be on the east coast although i have heard that SEA is a strong possibility.

Do they have the room facility wise at IND to support more flights? I thought gates were in short supply. IND has been very good to FL.
 
7e72004
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:30 pm

They have a little more space left...they could do some moving around in concourse C to accomodate more FL flights. I think if worse came to worse, they would use remote stands. It is not the best idea but until the new terminal is completed, there is not much choice. Unless they made another "massive" airline shift at IND it could be a little tight.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
quickmover
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:55 pm

Speaking of gates, Did they ever secure more at their main base ATL? I know they have a few over on D, but the last time I was through there, we were waiting for a gate to open. I believe this happens quite a bit. Every new city they open always starts with dailys to ATL. As FL continues to grow, things are getting crampt down there.
 
gr8slvrflt
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:04 pm

The three new gates being added to D are all slated for AirTran which brings the count on D to approximately 12, some shared.
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
quickmover
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:34 pm

Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Reply 32):
The three new gates being added to D are all slated for AirTran which brings the count on D to approximately 12, some shared

I didn't know they had that many on D. That's approaching what they have on C. Did someone move out of D? They could sure use a food court on D like Delta has over on B. Eating selections are pretty slim.
 
Indy
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:38 pm

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 30):
They have a little more space left...they could do some moving around in concourse C to accomodate more FL flights.

I'm waiting to hear back on today's IND airport authority board meeting in which a NW contract was up for approval that would give it more space and an additional kiosk area. The million dollar question right now would be what is more space.

The meeting was at 830am today. Hopefully the PR person will respond with my request for information on the contract change.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
avconsultant
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:47 pm

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 28):
Beyond that OKC also seems ripe for the picking - both eastward and westward bound. At least a LAS run couple days a week would generate good numbers possibly as well as an LAX, ATL, MCO & MDW.

Does OKC city have enough O&D to support east and westbound flight?

Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Reply 32):
The three new gates being added to D are all slated for AirTran which brings the count on D to approximately 12, some shared.

I know HP and US will consolidate. I did not realize they were expanding to 12 gates on D. I forgot how narrow "D" is compared to A-C, very cramped when crowded.

I overheard people in the gate area on "D" saying the city needs to go through with a new remote terminal for AirTran. Is the city looking at opening a remote terminal?
 
7e72004
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:50 pm

Would they be talking about more space in terms of another airline gate shift? They should move NW into C.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
FATFlyer
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:00 am

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 28):
Beyond that OKC also seems ripe for the picking - both eastward and westward bound. At least a LAS run couple days a week

Allegiant was operating OKC-LAS but pulled out when WN went daily. I'm not sure it is worth FL's resources to compete with WN on that route.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
Indy
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:01 am

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 36):
Would they be talking about more space in terms of another airline gate shift? They should move NW into C.

It is entirely possible. That is my theory on this. YX in the past month or so signed a new agreement at IND that is contingent on other agreements being executed. I have no idea if this is related to other YX agreements or agreements with other airlines. Also F9 in the past month signed an agreement for a luggage office which struck me as odd. They had been working with UA. Why get an office now with only 3 flights a day? It is possible that they are picking up a luggage office because they will no longer be close to UA.

Oh well here it goes. Don't flame me. Its just a theory.

The theory is that NW will be moving to concourse C and that CO, YX, FL, F9 and WN will move to concourse A. Those airlines use 8 gates as it is. Two gates in C are currently common use. If you ask around IND the NW agents will tell you they want more gates. With alot of ticket counter space left over in the middle from where TZ pulled out one must wonder why WN and F9 which are all the way at the end by the "A" concourse haven't moved to fill the space. Or why FL which can get quite a line at the ticket counters in the middle hasn't picked up an extra slot.

So you have the odd ticket counter arrangement which alone smells like a change coming along with two common use gates in "C", crowding in "A", statements by NW employees about wanting more gates, and now these contract changes.

Coincidence? Maybe. I am sure there are a few people here that can chime in and fill in the blanks.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
7e72004
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:11 am

How many flights does US(and HP) have at IND?
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
Indy
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:15 am

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 39):
How many flights does US(and HP) have at IND?

Quite a few. Not sure of the exact number. But the merged airline is 2nd only to NW in number of passengers served.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
7e72004
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:31 am

hmm...Wouldn't the more ideal move be for NW to go to D?
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
flyinryan99
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:14 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 26):
Well, G4 did drop their 4x weekly flights from TOL to LAS... that alone is proof IMO.

No it isn't. Did you happen to read my other post in your other thread? They dropped it because it was UNECONOMICAL to fly the M80 at the edge of the threshold to TOL because of the fuel prices....that route still had >75% load factor on it...sorry, but that's not proof.
 
Indy
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Sat Jun 17, 2006 4:36 am

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 41):
hmm...Wouldn't the more ideal move be for NW to go to D?

That means swapping 18 gates (10 at D and 8 at A) instead of 16 (8 used in C and 8 at A). Also means swapping a bunch of ticket counters instead of just NW and FL.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
7e72004
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Sat Jun 17, 2006 4:41 am

It is only a difference of 2 gates...and the ticket counters...that is not a big deal...you take down the boards, move them to the new area and put them back up.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
Indy
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Sat Jun 17, 2006 4:49 am

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 44):
It is only a difference of 2 gates...and the ticket counters...that is not a big deal...you take down the boards, move them to the new area and put them back up.

You are still having the issue of trying to squeeze 10 used gates in to the space of 8. Remember D is fully used unlike C. Swapping A for C is an even switch.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
iowaman
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:17 am

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 22):
MSP-LAS looks like a great route for FL. over 2000 daily o/d.

They would have to go up against NW, HP, SY, and Champion on that. If they could compete with all of those then all the more power to them. Wink
 
pensacolaguy
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RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:22 am

Would be great to have FL in BNA,STL,PHX. (All expensive markets, unless you have the option of flying WN) I would say must the incoming 737-700s will go transcontinental BWI-LAX, BWI-LAS, MSP-LAX, PHL-LAX..You get the idea.
Also FL needs to specify there 737 flights on there PDF timetable.

Interesting Information from the "Merrill Lynch Global Transportation Conference" (Where FLs Joseph B. Leonard Chairman & CEO, spoke)

-116 Airplanes - 87 717s/29 737s
-BWI 42 Flights A Day
-MCO 42 Flights A Day
-MDW 32 Fights A Day (Room to grow)
-ATL 225 Flight A Day (300 Flights A Day..In the not so distant future)
-This year, AirTran will spend more on fuel than on salaries and aircraft rent.
 
usairways85
Posts: 4164
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:38 am

Quoting Pensacolaguy (Reply 47):
BWI 42 Flights A Day

I count 32 FL flts at BWI today, is that a current number or what the plan to have after some period of time?
 
pensacolaguy
Posts: 484
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 9:41 pm

RE: FL - Awfully Quite Lately - Any News?

Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:51 am

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 48):
I count 32 FL flts at BWI today, is that a current number or what the plan to have after some period of time?

BWI to.........
ATL-7
BOS-8
CLT-3 (3rd flight eff June 20th)
DFW-2 (2nd flight eff June 20th)
DAY-3
DTW-3
FLL-3
RSW-1
MKE-2
MCO-4
ROC-3
SRQ-1
TPA-3

More then 42..Actaully..

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