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Beaucaire
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Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:27 pm

Arnaud Lagardère and Manfred Bischoff - both heading the EADS group- have instructed Noël Forgeard to shut up and forbide any further interwiews.
This came just one day after Forgeard's "suggested concentration of delays in Hamburg..." being responsible for the A380 delay.
His remarks to blame exclusivelu Mr. Humbert as main responsible for the A380 mess,have provoked strong critizism even among french airbus workers.
Source : Der Spiegel

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/0,1518,421946,00.html

[Edited 2006-06-17 15:28:35]

[Edited 2006-06-17 15:29:43]
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timboflier215
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:38 pm

Since I can't read German, does the article actually say that they have told him to shut up? If they have, then good. Someone needs to! Much as I like Airbus, Foreard's often un-thought out remarks have done the company immeasurable harm in terms of PR-damage and customer relations.
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:42 pm

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777wt
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:43 pm

Translated:

17. June 2006

AIRBUS CRISIS

Interview prohibition for Forgeard

The CO boss of EADS, Noël Forgeard, was occupied allegedly with an interview prohibition. Before it had violently attacked that Hamburg airbus works because of the renewed delay with the giant jet A380.


London - which the two CO supervisory board bosses Arnaud Lagardère would have interview prohibition and Manfred Bischoff orders, reported the Londoner trade journal “Financial Time” today without closer indication of source.



AP
Noël Forgeard: Detuning in Hamburg released
Forgeard had made, among other things in an interview for the renewed delay with the A380-Programm some manufacturing plants responsible for Hamburg. Thus he had explained, it to the Radiosender Europe 1 gives “a rather strong concentration of problems in Hamburg”. The expressions had provided with airbus in Toulouse and Hamburg for detuning.

An imminent separation Forgeards is however a little probable, continues to write the newspaper with reference to EADS sources. On its future would have the French shareholder side - the Lagardère company and the French state - to decide.

The renewed delay of six to seven months with the largest passenger airline of the world the EADS share in the middle of the week drastically had let break in. It gives bottlenecks with the electrical connection, read the reason. The wiring of the A380-Innenausstattung is task Hamburg airbus works.

Forgeard had led airbus for many years, before he took over 2005 after a struggle for power the guidance of the nut/mother company EADS as well as the German arms specialist Thomas Enders. In connection with the A380-Verzögerung defends itself Forgeard also against reproaches of the insider trade. Forgeard had sold in the middle of March on a large scale to share options. It and EADS stress at this time still nothing from the new problems with the A380 to have known.
 
NAV20
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:44 pm

Quoting Timboflier215 (Reply 1):
does the article actually say that they have told him to shut up?

Yes - my German's pretty rusty, but it says he's copped an 'interview ban' from the two chairmen.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
Scorpio
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:51 pm

Good for Lagardère and Bischoff. Forgeard could use a big old cup of STFU.
 
NAV20
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:07 pm

Does make you wonder who IS going to do the talking. Someone has to, with all the press stories that are appearing.

I can't work out what the OTHER Joint CEO - Enders - gets paid for......
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
dutchjet
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:20 pm

There is clearly big trouble in the Airbus executive offices......it seems to be one thing after another at Airbus and thats not good news. That Airbus is taking delays with the A380 program and missed the mark with the A350 is bad enough, but this is the time for Airbus management to present a strong, united and cohesive front to the business and airline world....its managements job to ensure that the airlines and business communities continue to have faith in Airbus and to show that the future for the organization is strong and there is nothing serious to worry about. Instead, Airbus management seems to be more concerned with internal squabbles and then there is the whole stock option thing to think about; credibility is at stake.

More and more, it seems that some serious house cleaning is needed at Airbus and maybe its time for a new, strong leader to emerge. Something needs to be done, and fast, the airline and business communities are watching Airbus closely: the 787 order from SQ this week and the 25% drop in the value of Airbus shares resulted from more than a 6 month delay in the A380 program, those actions resulted from a lack of strong leadership and trust in the Airbus organization at this time.
 
airevents
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:50 pm

This is soooo much energy wasted. I hope that someone will kick these gentlemen�s asses so that they wake up and dedicate their energy to getting the A380 delivered and finding a solution to the A350 problems. Otherwise Airbus will really be going down the drain soon. Congratulations Boeing, no need to act, just wait and enjoy!
 
Leskova
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:37 am

Bit more about it from Handelsblatt (also only in German):
http://www.handelsblatt.com/Unterneh.../0/schlammschlacht-bei-airbus.html

I especially like Forgeard's comment (roughly translated) "When I was at Airbus, we never failed to meet our prognosis"...
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elvis777
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:51 am

Howdy all,

Yeah what does enders do? What is he in charge of? Are there any repercusions from the german side for being blamed by Foregeard that the delay is on their part? I thought the electrical harness were made in france?

I am not really familiar with the european corporate culture , not even familiar with aamerican corporate culture but if the ceo of disney causes a ruckus with pixar due to the interviews he gives, cna the board really shut him up? I thoought he had a lot of autonomy- that is until they fire him. Sorry poor example and little knowledge.

When did the power transition take place- Humbert assumed command of Airbus? I mean why blame Humbert (indirectly if I understood correctly) if Humbert been on the job a few months. Is he saying that if Foregeard was still in charge there would not have been any delays?

Peace

Elvis777
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SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:55 am

Well assembly line and the fixture of wiring and Singapore Airlines' alledged demands of "softer lighting" and modifications to "video screens" would have been in Hamburg wouldn't it?
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
c680
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:10 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 9):
Forgeard's comment (roughly translated) "When I was at Airbus, we never failed to meet our prognosis"...

Messr Forgeard must be a smoker - His Doctor has given him a fatal prognosis of a cancer in his mouth.

It's called his tounge.  Big grin
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redflyer
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:15 am

I found this quote in the MSNBC article interesting...

people inside the group said he was unlikely to go in the near future. "I am not convinced there will be an earthquake," said a senior company insider. "An earthquake would just add to the crisis. What is needed now is a fix, not a victim."


On the contrary, I think an "earthquake" is needed in order to restore investor and industry confidence.
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ikramerica
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:16 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
This came just one day after Forgeard's "suggested concentration of delays in Hamburg..." being responsible for the A380 delay.

See? As soon as you start suggesting the ACTUAL CAUSE of delays, it becomes a nationalist issue for the country "offended" and all hell breaks loose.

It's been obvious for a long time that the delay is in the interior installation and that is a German thing, but with the structure of Airbus, even pointing this out is a political hot potato.

The only politically acceptable alternative to pointing out where ACTUAL blame lies is to blame the CUSTOMER, and that is wearing thin on customers...
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wjcandee
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:21 am

As an a.net participant, I had been lead to believe by postings here that the public in Europe is singularly supportive of the A380 and that xenophobic and myopic Americans are the only ones who irrationally raise questions about the aircraft and its opportunities for success. Accordingly, I was intrigued by a poll being conducted on the Der Spiegel web site next to the article in question. Roughly translated: "Airbus A380 - Technical wonderwork or flying insanity?"

As to our friend M. Foregard, one reasonable interpretation of the developments is that his initially-mystifying attack on his successor, suggesting that Foregard should be given the right to run Airbus, was perhaps a head-fake, attempting to distract folks from the impending story that raised questions about insider-trading on his part. This meltdown in the executive suites needs to be addressed quickly and forcefully by the board before the company commits a CFIT. The last thing you need is bitchy bickering in the executive suites when the guys and gals on the line need to pull together to get the product out the door on time.

[Edited 2006-06-17 18:26:01]
 
spartanmjf
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:22 am

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 13):
On the contrary, I think an "earthquake" is needed in order to restore investor and industry confidence.

And hence the problem - when the French state is a significant force the rules of the market and of investor control are just a little different.
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Beaucaire
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:25 am

Quoting Elvis777 (Reply 10):
Is he saying that if Foregeard was still in charge there would not have been any delays?

This is what Forgeard bascially ment in his contested inerview yesterady in the french Radio-station "Europe1"...
He puts the blame on the Hamburg operation and on Humbert,saying if it would have him in command it would not have happened...
It's a major "save my a.." operation by Forgeard which will cost him his head!
It is unlikely Humbert and the Airbus team who seems more inclined to follow the calm ,down-to-earth style of Humbert,will go back to business as usual after forgeards interview.
It was a tastless,tactless deferral of responsibility towards a group of people who did not diserve to be blamed.
If the A380 is late it's a conceptual management issue primarily - based on earlier assessments- what is feasable and in what timeframe.
There are obviously managers responsible for what went wrong -but putting it on Hamburg is a ridicoulous way of buying out his own faults.
The man is a liability for Airbus and should be sunk.
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TVNWZ
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:28 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 14):
See? As soon as you start suggesting the ACTUAL CAUSE of delays, it becomes a nationalist issue for the country "offended" and all hell breaks loose.

Typical pass the buck. Never point out where the actual problem is. Nooo. If Hamburg is so offended then simply get your act together and fix the problem.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 14):
The only politically acceptable alternative to pointing out where ACTUAL blame lies is to blame the CUSTOMER, and that is wearing thin on customers...

And it is killing them.
 
elvis777
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:31 am

Hi Beucaire,

Thanks for the answer. Is this the general sentiment amongst eads people and the european public in general or did Froegeards comments have some supporters.

Peace

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texfly101
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:44 am

If memory serves me, when EADS was changing their management several years ago, it was a very contentious affair. The appointment of German and French management team as a political concession brought a spate of articles regarding whether it would work or fall apart under the weight of controversy. To me, it looks as if its a very contentious management team. Not good for a company who needs both strong leadership and a clear vision of how to proceed out of their current situation. Since EADS does have a strong influence from the respective governments, I look for a political solution and Mr. Forgeard departing for other appointments. I can't remember the name, but there was substantial support for another person to be named back then who didn't have the Franco-German ties. Maybe thats the best solution. When EADS announced that they were going to investigate the A380 problems, I thought, hmmm, so we're going to have people who report to Mr. Forgeard investigate what he was once head of??? I just don't see his power base increasing, in actuality, I see it eroding. More to come for sure. Can't wait to see how I get flamed on this post, just remember guys, I have never been an A basher.
 
Leskova
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:46 am

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 15):
As an a.net participant, I had been lead to believe by postings here that the public in Europe is singularly supportive of the A380 and that xenophobic and myopic Americans are the only ones who irrationally raise questions about the aircraft and its opportunities for success.

Incidentally, nothing could be further from the truth - there have always been quite vocal critics of individual projects as well as Airbus as a whole: Europe is no more singularly supportive of the A380 than Germans are convinced that their team will win the World Cup...  Wink

Actually, I'd say that to most people (at least in this country), the A380 (or Airbus) is simply a non-issue. It's a company building a product - either it works or it doesn't. If it doesn't, they'll find something else... in other words: not much sentiment involved.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
Ken777
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:53 am

I would be surprised if Forgeard were to suddenly "retire", but I could see the board change his responsibilities - like to organizing all company picnics and retirement parties.

THe board will not be too concerned about the comments on this board, but I believe that they will be very concerned with Forgeard's reputation at the major airlines and will address this problem with reassignment of responsibilities and authority. Look for them to first address their important customers and then to address any potential legal issues.
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:00 am

Quoting Elvis777 (Reply 19):
Hi Beucaire,

Thanks for the answer. Is this the general sentiment amongst eads people and the european public in general or did Froegeards comments have some supporters.

Elvis- I think 90 % of all Airbus employes are proud to be among a crowd who manufacture and design great airplanes.
Forgeard has been a rotten apple since quite a while and ony gets some support from political circles (like Chirac..- but he's rotten as well...)
Most Airbus people are worried about a negative impact on orders and customer satisfaction tied to late deliveries.There is no doubt they will fix the problems ! Reading in european airline-forums where Airbus emplyoes post,you can feel the sentiment of belonging to a team -regardless if they are in Spain,UK or France.They feel that Humbert has a completely different work-style which complies better to their way of working.
There might be some French who think what Forgeard said might be true-but I would say it would represent an unsignificant minority.
These are bad days for Airbus - and instead of easing the pain by showing unity and leadership,Forgeard just tries to justify his stupid and unqualified sale of stock-options.

[Edited 2006-06-17 19:04:40]
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glacote
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:56 am

Forgeard arrived where he is through political ties to not-so-clean politicians (Chirac...). He has no industrial legitimacy. He screwed up big time several times on the A388 unannounced delays, the several-times-revamped-yet-unsellable A350 that he insisted to portray as "brand new", etc.

This one shows that he even has not the slightest political sense.

Time to go, Noel, time to go...
 
redflyer
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:11 am

Quoting Glacote (Reply 24):
Time to go, Noel, time to go...

Noel and perhaps others. Boeing went through just as severe, albeit different, issues a few years ago with top management. A good house-cleaning seems to have put them back on track. Airbus should do the same. And implement a new management structure while they're at it.
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LTU932
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:03 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 9):
I especially like Forgeard's comment (roughly translated) "When I was at Airbus, we never failed to meet our prognosis"...

But which prognoses does Forgeard refer to, Frank? The A380 was first delayed I believe when he was still running Airbus, before Humbert took over.

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 17):
There are obviously managers responsible for what went wrong -but putting it on Hamburg is a ridicoulous way of buying out his own faults.

Most of the problems related to the Airbus Hamburg plant were related to the extension of the runway at XFW, putting uncertainty on whether this A380 delivery centre could actually be opened in Hamburg or if it would transfer that base back to Toulouse, so it could take over all deliveries. Even if the launch of XFW delivery centre was to be delayed, Airbus should have had a contingency plan in place. The delay related to the interior would have been a problem for all delivery centres anyway. Airbus, and perhaps also the customers, might have been overambitious with that.

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 25):
A good house-cleaning seems to have put them back on track. Airbus should do the same. And implement a new management structure while they're at it.

Absolutely agree! Although Boeing's problems were mostly related to the sales team, once they got sacked along with the CEO and new, fresh people arrived, Boeing jumpstarted with their sales and have now come a very long way with their sales, the 787 being a prime example. Airbus MUST do the same housecleaning Boeing did. Sometimes it's good to learn from your competitor when it comes to certain things.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
Leskova
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:16 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 26):
But which prognoses does Forgeard refer to, Frank? The A380 was first delayed I believe when he was still running Airbus, before Humbert took over.

Good question... because the first A380 delay isn't quite the only prognosis that Airbus didn't meet under his command. The way he's quoted in that article is as if he's saying "I was perfect - you're not" towards Humbert, something that's certainly not a valid comment on his side.

Maybe I should have put a smiley next to my remark... I "liked" the comment because I just love the irony in his comment, when compared to reality...  Wink

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 25):
A good house-cleaning seems to have put them back on track. Airbus should do the same. And implement a new management structure while they're at it.

I really was hoping that Gustav Humberg was going to be the first step, but I guess I'll have to put my hopes on the next Airbus CEO.

If I take a look home, I can only say that Austrian Airlines (as well as several other Austrian companies) started to prosper as soon as the ridiculous idea of constantly having co-CEOs was ended; in Austria it was usually a member of each of the governing parties (since Austria was ruled by a grand coalition for ages)...

Airbus and EADS should do away with that non-sensical co-CEO structure. Get the person best qualified for the job, regardless if he's German, French, Spanish, British or, for that much, European. If an American has the best qualifications, hire him; if it's an Australian, South African, Chinese, Brasilian, whatever - don't hesitate, don't start all that idiotic political in-fighting again that we had to endure the last time around... just get the best person for the job.
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rj777
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:21 am

Looks like it's Put Up or Shut Up time at Airbus...........
 
atmx2000
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:29 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 27):

Airbus and EADS should do away with that non-sensical co-CEO structure. Get the person best qualified for the job, regardless if he's German, French, Spanish, British or, for that much, European. If an American has the best qualifications, hire him; if it's an Australian, South African, Chinese, Brasilian, whatever - don't hesitate, don't start all that idiotic political in-fighting again that we had to endure the last time around... just get the best person for the job.

While they should get rid of the co-CEO structure I disagree that they should go for any nationality for CEO of EADS. It is a defense contractor, and it would not be wise to put a CEO of just any nationality into its top spot.

They should also quit pretending that this company is European, given that it is largely dominated by two nationalities, with a junior partner.
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LTU932
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:35 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 27):
Get the person best qualified for the job, regardless if he's German, French, Spanish, British or, for that much, European. If an American has the best qualifications, hire him; if it's an Australian, South African, Chinese, Brasilian, whatever - don't hesitate, don't start all that idiotic political in-fighting again that we had to endure the last time around... just get the best person for the job.

I would put you into my respected user's list for that remark, if it wasn't for the fact that I already got you in my RU list.  Wink

Bottom line is you're absolutely right. It doesn't matter where the person comes from or if it's a man or a woman. Fact is, if he or she is qualified enough for the job, hire him. However I fear that some nationalism will still be involved at the time when Airbus and EADS decide to get new CEOs. Wasn't it Nationalism which brought us here in the first place?
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
zvezda
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:37 am

At this stage, it won't take much more for Forgeard to be shown the door. If one major airline like BA, EK, or SQ were to say "Don't send any sales folks around while Forgeard still works there." then he would be gone within a week.
 
Rheinbote
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:39 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 14):
See? As soon as you start suggesting the ACTUAL CAUSE of delays, it becomes a nationalist issue for the country "offended" and all hell breaks loose.

While I share your assessment regarding political sensitivities, the actual cause is unlikely to be limited to issues within German responsibilities only.

Beyond that, Msr. Forgeard has become an unguided missile in external communications on numerous instances in the recent past, that's why his peers seem to get ticked of now by the slightest provocation.
 
Leskova
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:48 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 29):
While they should get rid of the co-CEO structure I disagree that they should go for any nationality for CEO of EADS. It is a defense contractor, and it would not be wise to put a CEO of just any nationality into its top spot.

Well... that would leave the question of what nationality to use: especially with reference to the defense side of EADS, the whole thing goes beyond the EU, and even beyond Europe: Turkey, Malaysia and South Africa are mentioned as "program partners" on Airbus Military's website...

Then again, maybe it's just my perspective as a European citizen who's not from one of the Airbus countries - but I maintain my viewpoint that, despite the defense side, the CEO should be chosen from those most capable, not those holding the right passport.

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 29):
They should also quit pretending that this company is European, given that it is largely dominated by two nationalities, with a junior partner.

So what would you call it? A French/German based company owned by a Dutch company that's owned by French, German and Spanish companies (as soon as the UK side is out of the picture)?

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 30):
Wasn't it Nationalism which brought us here in the first place?

Exactly - and nationalism is never a good basis for rational decisions!

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 31):
If one major airline like BA, EK, or SQ were to say "Don't send any sales folks around while Forgeard still works there." then he would be gone within a week.

Would work... but I just don't see that happening.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
F14ATomcat
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:52 am

Just a another two cents to this discussion. This is nothing new in management. However, given the nature of commercial airframe manufacturing, it will make big news. Martha Stewart, Enron, etc etc etc. The best thing for EADS to do is conduct a thorough invetigation, find out the facts, and compare them to the actions of management. I expect Foregard, at a minimum, and probably a few others will be ousted, and there is a real good potential for prosecution. Bad management can tank any organization. Given some of the large mistakes, and I am being generous by saying mistakes, that have happened, a management purge should be welocomed by the A faithful.
 
kaitak
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RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:55 am

I guess, in ways, this is an example of history repeating itself. We know that when the 747 was first launched, there were lots of engine and tech problems and similarly, with the 744, the individual customer options contributed to delays.

More recently, Harry Stonecipher was pushed aside and James McNerney took over ... and we know what has happened since then. Boeing has being tearing strips off Airbus. I feel that a similar fate is likely to befall Foregeard; they'll use the share issue as a pretext, but he'll be the fall guy. Of course, it's going to take a lot more than that, but I think Airbus has what it takes to recover and I hope for them, for the industry and (in an odd way) for Boeing, that they do. Competition helps everyone.

So, what to do first?
- Get the A380 issue sorted.
- Forget the A340; it's a goner. There's no point in throwing good money after bad. It's finished. Focus current efforts on the A330, because until the A370 comes onstream, that's their best weapon in the medium widebody race.
- Develop the A330 between now and 2013. It's a very fine aircraft and there's a lot of life in it yet: some refinements designed for the A350 - new cabin architecture, new materials, perhaps new engines and it can certainly be a good competitor. Also, make the A330-300 a more efficient long hauler and develop a cargo 332.
- The A370. Make it a multi-mission aircraft: a high density short hauler for Japan, an ULH aircraft and a cargo aircraft, from day one (the early 777s and cargo MD11s will be coming up for replacement in the middle of the next decade; make sure the 370 is the natural replacement for these.
- Plan for the next generation of short haulers, the A320 replacement.
- Prioritise regaining Airbus's credibility and reputation in the industry

OK, I've obviously skimmed over a lot of important issues, but I think that with the right leadership and motivation, all of this can be done. Morale is a key issue and I think that with the culmination of events this year and last, that can't be good right now: make it a priority.

In short, the turnaround starts now: a new leader, a new philosophy and a fresh start.
 
atmx2000
Posts: 4301
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:00 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 33):
Well... that would leave the question of what nationality to use: especially with reference to the defense side of EADS, the whole thing goes beyond the EU, and even beyond Europe: Turkey, Malaysia and South Africa are mentioned as "program partners" on Airbus Military's website..

The partners aren't part of EADS. Those countries have companies/organizations participating in the A400 program.

Likewise, Lockheed has international partners particpating in the JSF, but they aren't part of Lockheed.

Quoting Leskova (Reply 33):

So what would you call it? A French/German based company owned by a Dutch company that's owned by French, German and Spanish companies (as soon as the UK side is out of the picture)?

EADS is about as Dutch as I am. They've incorporated there for the advantage (tax?) of not being a French or German company in a legal sense.

And the UK isn't in EADS.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
elvis777
Posts: 346
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:23 am

RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:16 am

Hi Beucaire.

Ok., thanks for the answer. Makes sense.

Peace

Elvis777
Leper,Unevolved, Misplaced and Unrepentant SportsFanatic and a ZOMBIE as well
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:29 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 36):
EADS is about as Dutch as I am. They've incorporated there for the advantage (tax?) of not being a French or German company in a legal sense.

Doesn't change the fact that that's where EADS is registered and headquartered... and as far as I remember, the Netherlands were also considered a type of "neutral ground" at the time, because no agreement could be reached on a HQ in either France or Germany.

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 36):
And the UK isn't in EADS.

I know - I was talking about Airbus (read "a French/German based company owned by ..."), in which the UK is involved.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
Ken777
Posts: 10149
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:40 am

Shake ups at the top can be interesting, but is generally takes more than one exec to go. Boeing is a good example of that. A more dramatic example is Apple COmputer, which some thought were heading to the grave. Steve Jobs came in, but he also brought his "team" with him. A lot of hard work and a stubborn streak when it comes to design and Apple is going great, with a lot more to come.

Just getting rid of Foregard alone will not solve the problem. Besides a top notch CEO there is a need to allow him (or her?) to reorganize - which generally means a lot of senior personnel changes. Just like Apple, it is going to take a while before strong results can be achieved, but the airline execs will know what is going to happen and will be more supportive during the transition period.
 
leelaw
Posts: 4517
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:40 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 38):
Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 36):
EADS is about as Dutch as I am. They've incorporated there for the advantage (tax?) of not being a French or German company in a legal sense.

Doesn't change the fact that that's where EADS is registered and headquartered... and as far as I remember, the Netherlands were also considered a type of "neutral ground" at the time, because no agreement could be reached on a HQ in either France or Germany.

Legally incorporated in Dutch capital Amsterdam, the corporation's headquarters are located in Paris, France, and in Ottobrunn near Munich, Germany.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EADS
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
zvezda
Posts: 8886
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:44 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 35):

- Get the A380 issue sorted.
- Forget the A340; it's a goner. There's no point in throwing good money after bad. It's finished.

I hope someone will correct me if I'm mistaken, but hasn't the A340 been outselling the WhaleJet lately? Not just by units but by euros too?
 
iwok
Posts: 979
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:35 pm

RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:26 am

Quoting 777WT (Reply 3):
before he took over 2005 after a struggle for power the guidance of the nut/mother company EADS

I know its a bad translation, but still hillarious!  rotfl  The nut/mother company EADS is definately in need of a rework. Two headquarters; 2 CEOs; this is not sustainable.

Also old Noel needs the boot!

iwok
 
frugalqxnwa
Posts: 550
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 3:18 am

RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 9:14 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 41):
Quoting Kaitak (Reply 35):

- Get the A380 issue sorted.
- Forget the A340; it's a goner. There's no point in throwing good money after bad. It's finished.

I hope someone will correct me if I'm mistaken, but hasn't the A340 been outselling the WhaleJet lately? Not just by units but by euros too?

The A380 has yet to get a single order this year and the A340 has gotten one order from Kingfisher for 5 A345 (according to www.justplanes.com ). So, if you are talking about 2006 orders, you ard correct.

Also, is it just me or were there two A380 delays announced while Forhead was running Airbus? Nice way to blatantly spin the record.
 
elvis777
Posts: 346
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:23 am

RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 9:26 am

Howdy,

I know this is a bit unrelated but starting a post seemed like too much. I just read that Lufthansa Technik is one of the biggest employers in the hamburg region. Is Lufthansa Technik in any way connected to the airline Lufthansa?

Peace

Elvis777
Leper,Unevolved, Misplaced and Unrepentant SportsFanatic and a ZOMBIE as well
 
trevd
Posts: 338
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:51 pm

RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 9:36 am

There's even more to this than political in-fighting, as bad as that is.

Keep in mind that the French AMF (Autorite des Marches Financiers) which is the equivalent to the US SEC (securities exchange commission) has revealed they have been investigating EADS for securities fraud for several weeks now.

I would think the Foregeard gag order is as much about this as anything.
 
atmx2000
Posts: 4301
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 9:46 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 39):
A more dramatic example is Apple COmputer, which some thought were heading to the grave. Steve Jobs came in, but he also brought his "team" with him. A lot of hard work and a stubborn streak when it comes to design and Apple is going great, with a lot more to come.

Not exactly. Apple bought Next (Steve Job's computer company) for their technology and Steve got a board seat, and then Steve launched a coup d'etat and ousted the Apple CEO (Amelio).
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
redflyer
Posts: 3905
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:19 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 41):
I hope someone will correct me if I'm mistaken, but hasn't the A340 been outselling the WhaleJet lately? Not just by units but by euros too?

You have an uncanny way of analyzing things. At this point, I'd say the A345/A346 (which, by the way, are my favorite aircraft despite the fact that they may not be as efficient as the competition's) have a better business case than does the the Big Bird.
A government big enough to take away a constitutionally guaranteed right is a government big enough to take away any guaranteed right. A government big enough to give you everything you need is a government big enough to take away everything you have.
 
B707Stu
Posts: 893
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:15 pm

RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:14 am

An interesting time for Airbus. Perhaps an even more interesting time for the E.U. and the business model that's been chosen by politicians around Airbus.

When business is involved my guess is Airbus will, in fact, remove some significant leaders and their teams. Not only is Forgeard wrong but the people who ordered the 'shut up' order are wrong. I think the correct discipline would be to bring him in, have a rough meeting, get the feelings out and figure out how everyone will speak from the same talking points before speaking to any press. That's Business 101.

What shows things are broken more than anything is that this very simple rule of not bad-mouthing a team member in public has been broken. If that's the tip of the iceberg than what's really going on inside?
 
zvezda
Posts: 8886
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Eads To Forgeard : Shut Up....

Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:00 pm

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 47):
You have an uncanny way of analyzing things.

Thank you.

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 47):
At this point, I'd say the A345/A346 (which, by the way, are my favorite aircraft despite the fact that they may not be as efficient as the competition's) have a better business case than does the the Big Bird.

I agree. As long as Airbus can sell A340s and produce them at a profit, I see no reason to shut down production. I wouldn't spend a lot of money on further development of the A340, but I would milk the existing design.

If I were suddenly in charge at Airbus, I would bring in some smart outsiders without an axe to grind to evaluate whether or not it makes sense to continue the WhaleJet program. I suspect it probably makes sense to go forward now, but the question should be given due consideration.

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