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leelaw
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Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:49 pm

Slips in schedule leave little margin to achieve target of 2006 delivery to SIA

Airbus has a battle on its hands if it is to complete certification of the A380 in time to deliver the first aircraft to Singapore Airlines (SIA) before the end of the year.


http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...r+end+to+fulfill+SIA+delivery.html

Excellent detailed chart of "A380 Production Breakdown" showing the status of airframes assembled so far at the end of this article.

[Edited 2006-06-19 16:05:01]
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StarGoldLHR
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:21 pm

"We are then into the [French] holiday period so we’ll do the ELFs in September,” says Lelaie. Route-proving had been set for September, but is not now scheduled to take place until the fourth quarter"


Why can't the french make a bit more of an effort instead of taking a month vacation...

Or why not let the french go on holiday using the A380 ?

Or finally if they still really really need that holiday and can;t make an effort to save their own company...

let one of their European partner countries do it ?


Lest the French not need that Month off
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
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metalinyoni
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:35 pm

With regards to the production list at the end of the article , will ships 1, 2, 4 and 7 make their way into airline service or will they remain test aircraft or be scrapped
300, 310, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 342, 343, 345, 346, 380, 707, 727, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 742, 74L, 743, 744, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 772, 77L 773, 77W, D10, AT46, AT76, AT75, 142, DH3, ER4, AR1, AR8
 
Joni
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:36 pm

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 1):

Why can't the french make a bit more of an effort instead of taking a month vacation...

What are you suggesting, they'd cancel their summer holidays?
 
BigSky123
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:37 pm

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 1):
Why can't the french make a bit more of an effort instead of taking a month vacation...

Or why not let the french go on holiday using the A380 ?

Or finally if they still really really need that holiday and can;t make an effort to save their own company...

let one of their European partner countries do it ?


Lest the French not need that Month off

I agree completely! This is no time to take a vacation. Statements like this one make me understand where the delays are coming from in the first place...

[Edited 2006-06-19 16:38:00]

[Edited 2006-06-19 16:39:28]
 
leelaw
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:39 pm

There are two supplemental articles accompanying the main article.

Electrical systems at the heart of A380 delivery slips

“We don’t see any impact on our delivery slots beyond 2009,” says Airbus president and chief executive Gustav Humbert.

The delay resulted from a production bottleneck created by the “huge workload” to integrate electrical systems and harnesses into the A380, says Humbert, who adds that a recovery action plan has started: “Some of the actions have now been implemented and some will be more or less defined in the next four weeks and will be effective from July.”


http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...+heart+of+A380+delivery+slips.html

A380 join-up production process put on hold

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...roduction+process+put+on+hold.html
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JAAlbert
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:41 pm

I'd vote for the vacation myself. The plane will still be there. I think I should take a vacation for the entire month of August also.
 
NAV20
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:43 pm

Never rains but it pours, n'est-ce pas?.

A past British Prime Minister once said, "A week is a long time in politics." Looking back to last Wednesday, it looks like it can be a long time in the aviation business, too.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
leelaw
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:44 pm

Quoting MetalInyoni (Reply 2):
1, 2, 4 and 7 make their way into airline service or will they remain test aircraft or be scrapped

Ship 1 will be retained by Airbus, Ships 2, 4, 7, & 9 will be re-engined to RR powerplants where appropriate (7 & 9), before ultimately being delivered to EY.
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ltbewr
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:14 am

August may not be such a good month for some testing anyway. It is usually about the hottest time of year so even if working, it would be very nasty in non-air conditioned places.
My question is when will some of the 'route testing' noted above will involve any USA airports (maybe DEN as to high altitutde, PHX for hot weather, JFK just for the gateway it is for a number of A-380 customers?)
 
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sebolino
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:27 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 1):
Why can't the french make a bit more of an effort instead of taking a month vacation...



Quoting BigSky123 (Reply 4):
I agree completely! This is no time to take a vacation. Statements like this one make me understand where the delays are coming from in the first place...

You guys make me laugh, you are so naive.

You think "the French" will cancel all the holidays to boost the A380 project ? Are you talking about the entire country or just people at Airbus ? Because I bet many engineers at Airbus accepted to delay their vacations, but about other companies and administrations ...
You don't take summer holidays in your countries ??

It must be why Slovenia is such a big economic power.
 
BigSky123
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:56 am

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 10):
You think "the French" will cancel all the holidays to boost the A380 project ?

In times when several major airlines are nervously waiting to get your product, (which by the way will define Airbus' reputation as a company for quite a few years to come), drastic measures are appropriate to say the least.

Perhaps this sounds unbelievable to you, but i personally know more than a couple of people who have sacrificed their summer time-off in order to complete a major project. I mean, this is capitalism were living in after all...

Let me say this clearly, my post wasn't aimed at "the French" but at people who are involved in massive projects with tight time constraints in general.

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 10):
It must be why Slovenia is such a big economic power.

Thanks for noticing!  Smile
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:57 am

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 10):
You guys make me laugh, you are so naive.

It would hardly be practical to cancel summer vacation. The unintended consequences would be another huge headache. Talk about adding insult to injury.
 
kanebear
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:01 am

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 10):
You guys make me laugh, you are so naive.

You think "the French" will cancel all the holidays to boost the A380 project ? Are you talking about the entire country or just people at Airbus ? Because I bet many engineers at Airbus accepted to delay their vacations, but about other companies and administrations ...
You don't take summer holidays in your countries ??

It must be why Slovenia is such a big economic power.

Essential employees and support personnel at Airbus and suppliers? You bet your a$$ they should cancel vacations. When you're that far behind on the flagship product that you've basically bet the company on, you don't stretch, yawn, and say "Time for a month off, I'm knackered."
 
redflyer
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:06 am

But Airbus chief operating officer customers John Leahy tells Flight International that certification is scheduled for “the end of December”, which leaves no margin for further slips. “We’ll deliver to SIA straight after,” he adds.

I guess this is confirmation that SQ will not put the bird into service until 2007. In fact, sounds like they won't even take delivery of it until 2007.
A government big enough to take away a constitutionally guaranteed right is a government big enough to take away any guaranteed right. A government big enough to give you everything you need is a government big enough to take away everything you have.
 
magyar
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:27 am

You people are quick in and enjoying "French-bashing"
I see. The article says nothing about Airbus employees
not willing to postpone/cancel their vacation. The "holiday
season" mentioned in the article can mean a lots of thing.
E.g., Sobolino suggested that it may be the employees of
suppliers (for whom the A380 may not be the major project) who are not willing to change their schedule.
Or, perhaps, the holiday season is the busiest time at
most airports and the A380 with its lovely separation rules
may not be welcomed at this time. So, people, sit back,
think or at least count to three before you indulge yourself
into your favorite activity.
 
drexotica
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:31 am

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 10):
You don't take summer holidays in your countries ??

The average American summer vacation length is now four nights or less, at least for 82-86% of the population according to ABC News. My experience is that a two week long vacation is considered extravagent. Longer than two weeks is quite unusual.

The company that I work for (commercial software development) often cancels all vacations for development staff during crunch periods - e.g., the two month's before a major software release.
N707PA - Best looking commercial aircraft ever.
 
coa747
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:41 am

Yeah we here in the US take summer vacations, but they don't last a month, but we also work more than 35 hours a week. You guys have got to wake up, France's economy is slipping because your workforce is very inefficient when compared to the United States and other countries, you work less hours and take month long vacations and that is why France and most of Europe is falling behind the 8 Ball. Here in the states if a similar crisis happened no one would go on vacation and everyone would be working overtime to try to make up the delay. Two weeks vacation is the standard for new employees here and in some companies you don't earn four until you have been with the company for 15 years. We work hard and you hardly work.
 
zvezda
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:58 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 1):

Why can't the french make a bit more of an effort instead of taking a month vacation...

The French without their excessive vacations would be like a fat person without the fat.  Wink Sadly, it's getting to be nearly as bad in Lithuania too.  Sad
 
ikramerica
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:21 am

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 10):
You don't take summer holidays in your countries ??

No.

We take holidays all year long, spaced out so that whole companies don't shut down. Certain union shops do shut down for holiday breaks like that, but this is usually in industries with yearly model cycles, so that while the main staff is off on vacation, the factory is retooled and adjusted for the next year's model run. In that case, it's a win-win situation for the company and the employees.

We certainly don't have socialist government mandated vacations that cripple our companies...  Wink

Quoting DrExotica (Reply 16):
The company that I work for (commercial software development) often cancels all vacations for development staff during crunch periods - e.g., the two month's before a major software release.

Yep, many industries work this way. You get 10 vacation days a year (or 15, what have you) but can't take them at certain periods of the year.

Toy companies you can't get time off in the 4th quarter. Accountants have two crunch periods they can't take a break in. Etc.

But considering the importance of the A380 to AIRBUS and the FRENCH PEOPLE, suggesting that it's not worth canceling or shifting vacations over is ludicrous and points to the reason France has the high unemployment it does and does not get respect even from many other European countries when it comes to the workforce.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
ebbuk
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:21 am

Quoting Joni (Reply 3):

What are you suggesting, they'd cancel their summer holidays?

No I don't think you could make the French cancel their holidays, perhaps Airbus should bus in some Brits who would quite happily step in to stop the project from slipping further

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 7):
A past British Prime Minister once said, "A week is a long time in politics." Looking back to last Wednesday, it looks like it can be a long time in the aviation business, too.

Indeed this week, at Airbus, that would be very true
 
NYC777
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:29 am

Well if there are more delays in the A380 maybe the Fench govt. will pass a law banning all vacations to Airbuss workers until they get their act together!!!  bomb 
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:38 am

France has always been closed during the month of August, thats the way it is, and its not going to change for the A380 or any other Airbus problem. Europeans do have more vacation time than their counterparts in the US, and Europeans do focus their vacation time during the Summer......and without getting into politics or the like, sometimes things are different in various parts of the world (and thats a good thing). It is true that 35 hour work weeks and 6 weeks of vaction plus paid holidays can slow down a project, welcome to Europe.

Thus, not much will be accomplished with the A380 program during the month of August......regardless of the delays being experienced. Realistically, the A380 program is signficantly delayed over the medium term future, with deliveries over the next 4 years being impacted.......would the 4 weeks really make such a difference.
 
Halibut
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:43 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 24):
.......would the 4 weeks really make such a difference.

Yes !
When you combined that with everything else that is going wrong with airbus at this time !

It all adds up !

Halibut
6 million Jews were slaughtered-Do you see Jews flying planes into buildings in Germany to kill 1000s of innocent, NO !
 
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sebolino
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:54 am

Quoting BigSky123 (Reply 11):
Perhaps this sounds unbelievable to you, but i personally know more than a couple of people who have sacrificed their summer time-off in order to complete a major project. I mean, this is capitalism were living in after all...

Let me say this clearly, my post wasn't aimed at "the French" but at people who are involved in massive projects with tight time constraints in general.

Believe it or not, but it happens all the time, even in France. Yes ! French employees also cancel their holidays from time to time, I did it, and many people I know did it.
But it's really ridiculous to say that "the French" should cancel their holidays.
I read so many ridiculous prejudices in this forum, it's even not funny anymore.
 
Halibut
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:07 am

Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin really got the short end of the stick on this one . It was for the better of France ! Oh well , can't blame this on the US or can you ???

http://www.nationalreview.com/kudlow/kudlow200603251037.asp

Quoting NationalReview:


March 25, 2006, 10:37 a.m.
Paddle the French Fanny
They sure need it.

Why is it that so many French people would rather riot than work?

For nearly a forth night, French students repeatedly have taken to the streets in protest of a modest labor reform proposed by Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin. It seems that Villepin had the audacity to suggest that companies hiring workers under the age of 26 have the ability to fire those workers in the first two years of employment. Villepin’s far-from-Draconian reform is a reaction to the country’s government-planned entitlement state, overregulated labor laws, and sky-high jobless rate.

Added to this, France’s top personal tax rate is 48 percent, with a VAT tax of nearly 20 percent. So that means French laborers face a combined 68 percent tax rate on consumption and investment. No wonder France has created less than 3 million jobs over the past twenty years, compared to 31 million in the United States. Economic growth in “cowboy capitalist” America has exceeded that of France’s worker paradise by nearly 50 percent.

Halibut
6 million Jews were slaughtered-Do you see Jews flying planes into buildings in Germany to kill 1000s of innocent, NO !
 
AM744
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:07 am

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 10):
You don't take summer holidays in your countries ??

Nope. Nobody does around here. Except perhaps some bureaucrats and most teachers.
 
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sebolino
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:09 am

Quoting AM744 (Reply 28):
Nope. Nobody does around here. Except perhaps some bureaucrats and most teachers.

Yeah, I worked a few years ago with a Mexican who came to France for 2 years. He was paid a Mexican salary and had Mexican holidays (2 weeks) while we had 5 weeks.
He was very happy to follow the Mexican rules !!
 
Glareskin
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:17 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 20):
We certainly don't have socialist government mandated vacations

Am I sensing envy here? Big grin
There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
 
coa747
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:24 am

Try selling the vacation to Emirates, Qantas and Singapore Airlines and see what they think of it. Justified or not the fact remains that it won't sit well with your customers that you just shut down for the month when you are already 6 months behind schedule. If France keeps going this way the economy will collapse and as they said in Detroit during the recession of the 80's last one out please turn off the lights.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:48 am

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 30):
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 20):
We certainly don't have socialist government mandated vacations

Am I sensing envy here?

Lets not get into this discussion.....while Europeans have shorter working hours and more vacations, there is a cost: less job creation, higher taxes and fewer advancement possibilities. The US and EU systems are simply two systems that work differently.

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 31):
Try selling the vacation to Emirates, Qantas and Singapore Airlines and see what they think of it. Justified or not the fact remains that it won't sit well with your customers that you just shut down for the month when you are already 6 months behind schedule. If France keeps going this way the economy will collapse and as they said in Detroit during the recession of the 80's last one out please turn off the lights.

The airlines are already upset......and they will receive compensation to help them get over this; I think the a.net crowd is taking the A380 situation more "personally" that the executives at the affected airlines. The A380 is late, the airlines will collect money, there may be some cancellations (not likely) if allowed pursuant to contract, and if the airlines are so upset with Airbus over this delay and feel so betrayed, they will simply no longer do business with Airbus. SQ made its point very clear when it placed its 789 order the day after the A380 delay was announced.....I am sure that SQ had already made its decision to order the 789, but making the announcement at that particular moment sent a message to Airbus.

The A380 program has signficant delays, not only are the first aircraft going to be very late going into service, the delivery schedule for the next four years has been dramatically impacted......its a very big deal and a very big (and very expensive) problem for Airbus....but at the end of the story, Airbus will not gain much by "requiring" its work force to work during the month of August 2006. Maybe the 4 weeks are symbolically important, but in practical terms, the A380 will be late whether Airbus works during August or not.

And, whose to say that Airbus could "Force" their employees to stay at their jobs in August - this is Europe where workers have far more rights, and every labor union and workers party would probably have what to say about this. And, the costs could be astronomical.......everyone working would be at "overtime" pay and who would reimburse the workers for the costs of their already paid for vacations. Please dont over-simplify things......Airbus has screwed up and I, too, am critical of many of their recent actions, but its not fair to think that Airbus can change the labor policy in Europe becuase its big new airplane project is running behind schedule.
 
compuz1
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:57 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 24):
Realistically, the A380 program is signficantly delayed over the medium term future, with deliveries over the next 4 years being impacted.......would the 4 weeks really make such a difference.

You are stating deliveries over the next 4 years being affected, including those of your two launch customers (Emirates and SQ) who are already peeved at Airbus for spouting figures and timeframes that are laugheable. The 747, from start to finish, development to delivery, was four years. As with Airbus it was an enormous gamble for Boeing. However, unlike Airbus, Boeing employees were NOT planning month-long trips to foreign countries when their jobs were on the line. In fact, the line ran 24/7 until day of delivery to Pan Am.

If Airbus wants to talk the talk it has to walk the walk. This is an immense gamble. Not just from a financial standpoint but also from a Customer Relations standpoint. SQ bought 787's from Boeing after the latest fiasco. Cathay and BA havent ordered a single 380 yet. I doubt Emirates will take all 45 orders. And Virgin is thinking about moving to the 748.

My reccomendation? Build the plane. Build it with pride. Most importantly, when you tell a customer it will be ready by a certain date, get it out on time! Nobody wants to see the A380 fail, but you are shooting yourselves in the foot to halt production for 4 weeks - almost a month - 1/12th of the year! So YES 4 WEEKS DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE. When you are in a business with fickle customers who have money to burn... Don't piss them off! And if you need your vacation, don't let debates about it get onto the newswires! Fire suppliers, DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE, just follow through with promises.

This isn't euro-bashing, it's common sense!

Times like this I am glad to be an American.
 
BoomBoom
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:06 am

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 30):
Am I sensing envy here?

No, I get seven weeks per year.

But if there's an important deadline at work I postpone my holidays until it's completed.
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:09 am

It's a pity that Airbus can't force these workers to put in the effort and get the A380 to Singapore as soon as possible.

While we can't do anything about it, they are bloody annoying to say the least. A drop of production from 25 to 9 next year is incompetence.

FOR SHAME. This A380 better be worth it.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Dougloid
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:19 am

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 35):
It's a pity that Airbus can't force these workers to put in the effort and get the A380 to Singapore as soon as possible.

While we can't do anything about it, they are bloody annoying to say the least. A drop of production from 25 to 9 next year is incompetence.

FOR SHAME. This A380 better be worth it.

I do not think the worker bees are the problem here. Just as you wouldn't blame a stoker or a cook for the sinking of the Titanic. The problem was on the bridge not in the boiler room or the galley.

But let's go round up the workers at gunpoint and chain them to their toolboxes, eh? That ought to do it.

I looked at your user profile. Such opinions from a young person-by what happy confluence of circumstance do you come with the wisdom that many are struggling to achieve here and elsewhere?
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
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solnabo
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:21 am

Do you really belive this drivel about 4-5 weeks of vacation in August to stop the A380 production??? Leelaw is an expert in trash n bash Airbus, come with someting better next time, please. Very tiresome for my eyes.

Micke//SWE  Yeah sure
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
magyar
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:29 am

Quoting Compuz1 (Reply 33):
enormous gamble for Boeing. However, unlike Airbus, Boeing employees were NOT planning month-long trips to foreign countries when their jobs were on the line. In fact, the line ran 24/7 until day of delivery to Pan Am.

IIRC, in the original article which I took the time to read, NOTHING was written about "Airbus employees planning
month-long trips to foreign countries" only about a vague
reference to "August as the Holiday season" (without elaborating its meaning).
You may dislike Airbus, anything French or Europien, but
unless you have hard facts your above statements are only
mallicious libels.
 
Aither
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RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:53 am

Quoting DrExotica (Reply 16):
The average American summer vacation length is now four nights or less, at least for 82-86% of the population according to ABC News. My experience is that a two week long vacation is considered extravagent. Longer than two weeks is quite unusual.

What a modern country ! you should go back further to 19th century working conditions if that makes you so proud.

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 17):
but we also work more than 35 hours a week. You guys have got to wake up, France's economy is slipping because your workforce is very inefficient when compared to the United States and other countries

That's absolutely untrue and as i've just said in another topic this is once again based on a lot of preconceived ideas about Europe and France in particular.

For example from the OECD : "France boasts one of the highest productivity rates per employed worker in the OECD"
Just check their website.

I also do know people in Airbus and i can tell you they don't take all their holidays and most if not all the people i know there work far more than 35 hours a week. There are some specificities about french labour you should know.

Also time at work becomes increasingly irrelevant. Other countries like northern European ones have even less working hours and that does not prevent them from being very competitive.
The US scores high in time at work but from my experience you seem to spend a lot of time at work to do not work related things...
Never trust the obvious
 
aeronut
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:41 am

RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:03 am

We are then into the [French] holiday period so we’ll do the ELFs in September,” says Lelaie.

But Airbus chief operating officer customers John Leahy tells Flight International that certification is scheduled for “the end of December”, which leaves no margin for further slips. “We’ll deliver to SIA straight after,” he adds.


How are they gonna certify and deliver the aircraft by year end? Doesn't Airbus shut-down over Christmas Holidays and New Years....


Seriously, this has less to do with French vacation, and more to do with a bunch of idiots who can't effectively run a program...

[Edited 2006-06-20 01:06:32]
 
coa747
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:11 pm

RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:20 am

Okay you go on believing that France's economy is doing well. The reality is far from it you are falling further and further behind by the day. England realizes the disparity and so does Germany but I guess France just didn't get the memo. This disparity was part of the reason the EU was formed to strengthen the member states and provide a more equal opertunity to compete against the United States. Problem is when you aren't spending money on R&D you become less and less efficient. While a lot of money is spent on R&D in the defense sector here, a whole lot also comes out of the thousands of colleges and universities in the United States. Fact is the United States has built a very solid research foundation through its institutions of higher learning that is unmatched by France or anyone else. Everything from building more accurate hurricane forcasting programs to new cancer drugs like Taxol were researched and developed through colleges and universities. Both of the mentioned programs were developed at Florida State University. There are thousands of examples of the same. France just hasn't invested the money to keep up and the results are showing.
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:34 am

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 35):
Do you really belive this drivel about 4-5 weeks of vacation in August to stop the A380 production??? Leelaw is an expert in trash n bash Airbus, come with someting better next time, please. Very tiresome for my eyes.

Micke//SWE

Mike I like you-I really do-but you really really need to stop a minute and get back on task here and focus, for heaven's sake.

Show me where Leelaw said anything offensive to you, la belle republique, the workers therein, or anyone else in this thread.

If you've got a problem take it up with the editors of the journals that publish such things. Oh....that would be Flight International, wouldn't it?

Well....they're obviously in the pay of the Aboulafia-Boeing-Boyd-Gellman conspiracy to tank the A380 Albatross....it's all quite obvious








 Confused  Confused  Confused
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
Halibut
Posts: 943
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:43 am

RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:46 am

Quoting Aither (Reply 37):
Also time at work becomes increasingly irrelevant. Other countries like northern European ones have even less working hours and that does not prevent them from being very competitive.
The US scores high in time at work but from my experience you seem to spend a lot of time at work to do not work related things...

Hhmm,
I take it that you were one of those people that got all up in arms & rioted when Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin wanted to impose a longer work week ?  hyper 

France will not be able to compete with there current "pro-worker / anti-business , socialist economy in the Globle economy .

And yes , the US most likely scores highly with the most time at work & has about half the unemployment of that of France !

http://www.nationalreview.com/kudlow/kudlow200603251037.asp

Quoting National Reveiw :


Is there a Thatcher that can save Gaul? Perhaps. French Interior Minister Nick Sarkozy is a strong law-and-order man. He’s the one who ended the Muslim riots. More, he is reputed to be pro-market and pro-American. The question is, can Sarkozy wake up this nation of economic sleepwalkers and bring them into the 21st century? He ought to take a big paddle to the collective French fanny. They sure need it.

Halibut
6 million Jews were slaughtered-Do you see Jews flying planes into buildings in Germany to kill 1000s of innocent, NO !
 
coa747
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:11 pm

RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:01 am

Workers in France seem to say to hell with profits and productivity I want my 6 weeks of vacation and if I choose not to work, good luck firing me. Also 40 hours is just the minimum here. The average is more like 48 or 50 hours a week. So I'll take our extended work hours to your unemployement rates and 6 weeks of vacation. If France keeps going like that then you will have a permenant all be it unpaid vacation because the economy will collapse. Seems like France is the only country or at least its workers that don't understand that. By the way when was the last time you heard France mentioned as the technological leader in any business?
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:10 am

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 42):
Workers in France seem to say to hell with profits and productivity I want my 6 weeks of vacation and if I choose not to work, good luck firing me. Also 40 hours is just the minimum here. The average is more like 48 or 50 hours a week. So I'll take our extended work hours to your unemployement rates and 6 weeks of vacation. If France keeps going like that then you will have a permenant all be it unpaid vacation because the economy will collapse. Seems like France is the only country or at least its workers that don't understand that. By the way when was the last time you heard France mentioned as the technological leader in any business?

You are certainly entitled to your opinions........and as I said above, Europe and the US are very different when it comes to employment, rules, regulations, etc.....which system is better? Each have their good and bad points, and lets leave it at that.

But, France and Europe are certainly NOT going to change their employment laws, regulations and customs simply to accommodate Airbus and the A380.....and its unlikely that Airbus can FORCE workers in France (and Germany) to work though the Summer without huge labor and union issues, its not gonna happen.

Again, I am not defending Airbus here - they screwed up big time, the A380 situation is one of many issues that Airbus has handled very poorly in recent months.....but labor laws and workers rights are very different in Europe and they are not going to change in consideration of Airbus' problems.
 
dhefty
Posts: 587
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 8:04 am

RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:20 am

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 42):
Workers in France seem to say to hell with profits and productivity I want my 6 weeks of vacation and if I choose not to work, good luck firing me. Also 40 hours is just the minimum here. The average is more like 48 or 50 hours a week. So I'll take our extended work hours to your unemployement rates and 6 weeks of vacation. If France keeps going like that then you will have a permenant all be it unpaid vacation because the economy will collapse. Seems like France is the only country or at least its workers that don't understand that. By the way when was the last time you heard France mentioned as the technological leader in any business?

Hold on there, Coa747. You've been listening to too much right-wing talk radio. I'm born and raised in the US, but I see no reason for this constant bashing of the French. They produce a huge range of high-tech products from aircraft to medical equipment to biotech, not to mention their world-class food and beverage products, as well as art, medicine and literature.

Just go to the key suppliers on the 787 and you will see many French companies on the list, including Thales, Latecoere, Messier-Bugatti, etc.

Do you have a problem with a six-week vacation? Not me. I'd rather travel or play golf than work the 60-hour week.

Granted many EU countries could use a little relaxation of their rigid work rules, but the US could use a good medical care program and a reasonable college tuition program as well.
 
galapagapop
Posts: 864
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:15 pm

RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:54 am

France or in this case Airbus, may have vacation problems but isn't this also true in Germany to a certain degree as well (or parts that is) where they take off 2+ weeks, although i thought it was later on in the year (Dec?).

Surely its crippling but I think calling the whole country that is just ignorant. In America talk about workers not working hard, have you seen USPS or any government job for that matter in the US? Don't need to go to France to see lazy incompetent workers FYI.

Cheers!
 
bhmbaglock
Posts: 2489
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:51 am

RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:13 am

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 10):
It must be why Slovenia is such a big economic power.

At least they have single digit unemployment.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 22):
would the 4 weeks really make such a difference.

At this point, yes. At $500,000,000 / year about $42,000,000.

However, I'd like to hear some details before assuming that the engineers and others at Airbus are not putting in a maximum effort. After all they're not French farmers. Unfortunately the comments about nothing happening re: flight test in August don't sound particularly promising.

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 42):
By the way when was the last time you heard France mentioned as the technological leader in any business?

You're way off here, the French are very good at many things. One particularly relevant product would be the very specialized CATIA and other CAD tools from Dassault that are key to all Boeing products including the 787. Group Zodiac is a leader in several areas, Alcatel is very strong in telecom (doing well enough to be buying Lucent), etc., etc.
Where are all of my respected members going?
 
cloudy
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2002 3:23 pm

RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:17 am

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 17):
Yeah we here in the US take summer vacations, but they don't last a month, but we also work more than 35 hours a week. You guys have got to wake up, France's economy is slipping because your workforce is very inefficient when compared to the United States and other countries, you work less hours and take month long vacations and that is why France and most of Europe is falling behind the 8 Ball. Here in the states if a similar crisis happened no one would go on vacation and everyone would be working overtime to try to make up the delay. Two weeks vacation is the standard for new employees here and in some companies you don't earn four until you have been with the company for 15 years. We work hard and you hardly work.

I've also heard that there is greater productivity PER HOUR in France than in the USA. That may be something to think about.

Our economy is built for go-getters. That makes for more wealth and innovation. The USA is a tougher place for those who would prefer just to come to work, work one's fair share, and have a good life outside of work. It is possible and one can live reasonably well that way, but it is tougher here. You can get fired or layed off much more easily even though the income is comparable. I can survive as a relatively unambitious person, but I do it mainly by NOT borrowing money. I spend on what I WANT, not what I want to impress others with. Then I have options in what job(s) I can take.

Overall, I like our system better. The US gives you more options and it is much better positioned to weather the changes. It does not persecute or punish those who produce - and this does create a better lifestyle for everyone in the long run. But there are a significant number of people(mostly lower-wage salaried people) that are having a tough time right now compared to their counterparts in other industrialized countries. Also, our health care costs are suffocating us. The main reasons for this, I think, are our outrageous medical liability system and our paying most of the medical R&D cost burden for the world. Drug companies and other medical businesses recoup their R&D costs and make profits here because it is one of the only economically significant places they can do so. If we had fully socialized medicine like most of the rest of the world - medical R&D would come to a standstill because there wouldn't be money in it anymore. Smart people go where they are appreciated and rewarded - and in a fully socialized system there would be fewer rewards in medicine.

Quoting Aither (Reply 37):
Also time at work becomes increasingly irrelevant. Other countries like northern European ones have even less working hours and that does not prevent them from being very competitive.
The US scores high in time at work but from my experience you seem to spend a lot of time at work to do not work related things...

That is true. There are many people who spend long hours at work to hide out from family troubles. A lot of time is taken up by mandatory and "unwritten" mandatory work social activities. On the other hand... People do a lot of surfing the net, socializing, reading, etc. on company time. This is not done out of laziness or malice, but it is a simple defense against the "White Collar Sweatshop". Sooner or later our companies are going to have to recognize that they cannot hire all entrepreneurs and go getters. Some people like to have a secure job, a reasonable paycheck, and just go home to their families at 5pm. These people won't put in the long hours but they are reliable, get the job done, are more loyal, and don't cause as many fights as more vibrant people. When they are appreciated they can be great assets to a company. As it is, we are squandering a large part of our workforce by trying to make them into what they are not. Companies that can learn to motivate and retain the less ambitious, but reliable and hard working, part of the workforce will have a competitive advantage.

Quoting Pihero (Reply 45):
All this drivel from a country that would be bankrupt if it did not have the political clout to back the dollar !
And the guy who has the nerve to produce the finest the US can do in terms of journalism (that's in English terms "from the gutter") with an article from the National (socialist) review. I'm going to puke !
rejoice ! the ugly american is back !

For a long time, we were actually pushing for a lower dollar because it made our exports more competitive. Both we and the EU have at the Chinese for artificially keeping their currency to low. We have MUCH less political clout than we could have if we flexed our muscle the way other "sole-superpower" countries have (like Victorian Britain, or Spain under Charles V, etc.). Americans tend to be much more critical of America than Frenchmen are critical of France, etc. Anti-American rhetoric is taken in stride here, relatively speaking. I don't think the same can be said of Anti-French rhetoric. In general, Americans are much more tolerant of criticism of their own country than citizens of other countries are tolerant of criticisms of their own countries.

In spite of this, in Europe, it is just as acceptable to hate America as it used to be acceptable to hate Jews. We are successful, therefore we must be evil. Many believe the wildest conspiracy theories about us and blame their problems on us. We are held to extreme and unrealistic standards that no one expects other countries to meet.

If you are proud of America and defend it , even politely, you are an "Ugly American". For the most part - the "Ugly American" attitude is what you will get when you seriously critisize any country in front of its own citizens. We are called "Ugly Americans" because we are expected to put up with it nicely while citizens of other countries are not expected to do so. There is some Xenophobia in America, but it is mainly in reaction to the attitudes expressed in the post above.

IN SHORT....I am an American, I am proud of being an American, and don't try to tell me that defending America or criticizing other countries on these pages makes me an "Ugly American". Citizens of other countries do so and are not called "The Ugly Frenchmen" etc. so we should be able to do so as well. That being said, we are not as hard working compared to the French as we think we are. Our "hard-working" culture can be counterproductivee at times, and has many hidden costs that we sooner or later will have to deal with. How does this apply to Airbus - well, don't count Airbus out yet. Remember the race between the tortoise and the hare. Sometimes a company that does slow but steady work can do more than operating in a constant state of crises....
 
bhmbaglock
Posts: 2489
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:51 am

RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:07 pm

Quoting Cloudy (Reply 50):
I've also heard that there is greater productivity PER HOUR in France than in the USA. That may be something to think about.

US - $42,101 #8
France - $33734 #19

per IMF 2005 figures

Note, if you adjust for cost of living their figures move the US up to #3 and France down to #20. By either measure, Luxembourg is tops by a considerable margin.

Interestingly enough, the figures for the US and France seem to scale fairly well with the hours worked. Of course by this logic the people of Luxembourg could not sleep or eat.
Where are all of my respected members going?
 
BoomBoom
Posts: 2459
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Airbus Battles To Complete A380 Testing By Y/E

Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:56 pm

Quote:
The escalating bad news adds up to "the worst crisis in the history" of the Franco-German European Aeronautic Defense & Space Co., Le Figaro newspaper declared Friday.

The troubles show that despite Europe's rise as a vast economic bloc in the global market, cumbersome bureaucracy and strife among political and business elites still pose hurdles in cooperation. And with France afflicted by political crisis, economic malaise and scandals, the blow to a showcase company in an aviation sector closely aligned with the government hits hard, experts said.

Richard Aboulafia, an aviation analyst and longtime critic of the A380 program, said Airbus had taken a huge gamble on a massive and costly project that could prove catastrophic. "This monstrous act of hubris has endangered Europe's aviation future," Aboulafia said

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...6159604.story?coll=la-story-footer
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