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kaitak744
Topic Author
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ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:31 am

It seems that the long-haul fleet of ANA is extremely underused.

As of now, their long-haul fleet stands:

12 747-400
5 777-200ER
5 777-300ER
And this year, they will add 1x -200ER and 3x -300ERs.

Now, with those 12 744s, they serve LHR, FRA, CDG, and HKG all 1x daily. With that schedule, they should be using no more than 8 747-400s. Yet, they have 12.

With the 5 777-200ERs, they serve only IAD, a route which takes only 2.
With the 5 777-300ERs, they serve LAX, SFO, and JFK, which is evenly balanced.

Now, with that being said, ANA plans to switch the IAD flight to a 773ER and start daily ORD with a 777-200ER. So, it seems that by the end of this year, ANA will still have 4 extra 744s, 4 extra 772ERs, and 1 extra 773ER.

Now, does ANA actually plan to start any new routes or just have those aircraft sit around?


*For later, they still have on order 1x-200ER and 2x -300ERs.
 
simairlinenet
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RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:52 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Thread starter):
As of now, their long-haul fleet stands:

12 747-400

I thought it was 11. What's curious is that they converted two of their -400s into -400Ds a few years ago.

Quoting Kaitak744 (Thread starter):
Now, with those 12 744s, they serve LHR, FRA, CDG, and HKG all 1x daily. With that schedule, they should be using no more than 8 747-400s. Yet, they have 12.

I think that would be seven aircraft, not eight.

Quoting Kaitak744 (Thread starter):
With the 5 777-200ERs, they serve only IAD, a route which takes only 2.

The 777s are also used within Asia, especially to China.

[Edited 2006-06-26 04:54:16]
 
Carpethead
Posts: 2619
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RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:13 pm

Kaitak744,
To answer some of your questions.
1. There is no official statement from ANA that will start NRT-ORD.
2. They have only 10 744s. Six are needed for the European runs and one for NRT-HKG. Two are currently operating domestic runs and last aircraft for spare (These are JA403A, JA404A & JA405A). They will use the domestic aircraft and spare aircraft for charters. Some of the aircraft are already awaiting release for cargo conversion.
3. The current five 773ERs fly, NRT-JFK, IAD & LAX.
4. Some of the 772ERs are now flying Asian routes such as NRT-DLC, SIN, BKK, & PVG replacing the non-772s that were configured in int'l seating. The non-ER 772s are now being flown domestically still in their int'l configuration.

NH and JL have often used int'l configured aircraft during the off-season period when the domestic fleet is undergoing maintenance but this year, it appears some of the aircraft will augment the domestic flying instead.
 
xiaotung
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RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:21 pm

Any plan to fly here down under? Australia and New Zealand.
 
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centrair
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RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:32 pm

I think they also use 744s to HNL and on some other Asian flights.

I read someplace that NH will reduce their 744s as they have been and replace with 787s, 772s and 773s. 767s will be leaving the fleet and replaced by 787-8s and -3s. This will help with expansion in Asia and to more select locations.

Unique to point out that NH has also orderd two 737-700ERs which when fitted with the max of tanks can do trans-pac flights. Will NH do that? Doubt it but they could add some unique destination flights.

There have been rumors of NH bringing back ORD. There has also been a rumor since 2004 that NH might start NGO-SEA. It would be a rare move as NH doesn't do any long-haul from outside of NRT. JL does and it might be to NH's advantage to do it as well. On the otherside NH uses their Star Alliance membership very wisely.

Look for NH expansion using 787s.

NH has a plan (released very recently) to start an LCC in the next few years. The LCC would be based at HND and take over many domestic and East Asian flights (Korea and China). The fleet will be made of 737s. The airline would be owned by NH but operated as a separate organization. This could result in an increase in focus of mainline long-haul international flights.
My name is Centrair but HND is closer. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
Carpethead
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RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:48 pm

Quoting Xiaotung (Reply 3):
Any plan to fly here down under? Australia and New Zealand.

Unfortunately the short answer is no.
No slots at NRT and anything else is unprofitable and better flown as charters.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 4):
NH will reduce their 744s

With 10 or so 773ERs on order/delivery, it is a given that the 744s will give way to the 773ERs. What replaces the 744Ds starting early next decade remains to be decided.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 4):
Look for NH expansion using 787s.

With a very conservative approach to long-haul routes, I am skeptical whether NH will really launch many new long-haul routes with the 787s. Rather they maybe used to replace the 763ERs on the Asian runs and the 763ERs sent over on domestic runs to replace the cycled-out 763 domestics that will be over 20 years old by the time delivery comes in 2008.
 
ktachiya
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RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:50 pm

Quoting Xiaotung (Reply 3):
Any plan to fly here down under? Australia and New Zealand

I know, one thing I find odd is that in Gold Coast, there is an ANA hotel. But then there are no flights serving Australia on ANA. I think when Ansett was still there, there was an NH flight # on that. But not anymore, so can they keep that hotel running without means to get ppl there?

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 2):
Two are currently operating domestic runs and last aircraft for spare

But the two operating domestic runs must be quite restricted to what routes they can fly. I know ITM banned four engine aircrafts now. So the only two that come to mind are HND-FUK, and HND-CTS?

Other than that, occasionally Naha (OKA)?

I remember that a while ago when the 747SRs were there, they used to fly an SR into Kagoshima. Is this still happening with the 744/744D?
Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
 
kevin
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RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:19 pm

Whatever happened to their plans to fly to Moscow
 
Carpethead
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RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:32 pm

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 6):
But the two operating domestic runs must be quite restricted to what routes they can fly. I know ITM banned four engine aircrafts now. So the only two that come to mind are HND-FUK, and HND-CTS?

Not restricted at all. If an airport has at least 2,500m of runway, which makes about all the major regional airports, the 744 can be flown. NH's domestic schedule changes often but I believe HND-Nagasaki or HND-Matsuyama were a couple of routes. Also remember int'l 744s have only about 320 seats, which is not even the equivalent capacity of the 3-3-3 abreast 772s.
 
ha763
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RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:17 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 4):
I think they also use 744s to HNL

All ANA HNL flights are now 763ERs. They used to occasionally use the 742s on extra section flights, but since they retired them, any extra section flights have been on 763ERs.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:40 pm

There have been consistent rumblings about ANA's serving Brussels. There was even talk about the route being combined with another European destination. I guess the lack of NRT slot has also thwarted those plans.
 
kaitak744
Topic Author
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RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:56 pm

Well, with Thai, and JAL pulling out of KIX-LAX, I think that would be a route hey could start yes?
 
cslusarc
Posts: 554
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RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:52 am

Why doesn't NH place its code on NZ operated flights between New Zealand and Japan?
--cslusarc from YWG
 
columba
Posts: 5237
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RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:58 am

They said that for them moment they will not order the A380 but will wait how their competitioners will do with it and decide then.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
ballsdeep
Posts: 52
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RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:48 am

With PHX being a Star Hub now, is it possible to see service from ANA once they take delivery of the 787?
 
kiwiandrew

RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:57 am

Quoting Cslusarc (Reply 12):
Why doesn't NH place its code on NZ operated flights between New Zealand and Japan?

because JL is the designated Japanese carrier on the Japan-New Zealand route
 
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Flying Belgian
Posts: 1955
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RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:16 am

We still wait them in BRU  Wink  Wink

Can we still hope ?

FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
Robbie86
Posts: 314
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RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:22 am

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 16):
We still wait them in BRU

In ARN as well ;D
 
kaitak744
Topic Author
Posts: 2220
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:32 pm

RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:05 am

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 15):
because JL is the designated Japanese carrier on the Japan-New Zealand route

But isn't ANA the nationally owned flag carrier, and JAL a private airline? Why would JAL get more traffic rights over ANA?
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 9302
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RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:15 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 18):
But isn't ANA the nationally owned flag carrier, and JAL a private airline?

ANA is not nationally owned...

Despite what the Airbus crowd would allege, ANA is an entirely private airline that has been publically traded since 1961.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
kaitak744
Topic Author
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RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:23 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 19):
ANA is not nationally owned...

Despite what the Airbus crowd would allege, ANA is an entirely private airline that has been publically traded since 1961.

Sorry about that. But ANA is considered the national flag carrier right? So, naturally, shouldn't it have more rights over JAL?
 
jumboforever
Posts: 180
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RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:53 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 20):
Sorry about that. But ANA is considered the national flag carrier right? So, naturally, shouldn't it have more rights over JAL?

JAL is considered as the national flag carrier. ANA started to fly internationaly only 20 years ago. For many Japanese people, it feels weird to fly internationaly on ANA as it's better known as a domestic carrier. This is starting to change however.

Regards,

JumboForever
 
TokyoNarita
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Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 5:30 am

RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:02 pm

Quote:
1. There is no official statement from ANA that will start NRT-ORD.

This is official. ANA stated it plans to resume service starting Oct 28th. It was in a Japanese news online.
 
Carpethead
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RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:14 pm

Quoting TokyoNarita (Reply 22):

No offense, but newspaper means crap.
Nothing from NH, which matters the most. Other than the fact that NH is studying the feasibility of re-starting the route as announced earlier this winter, nothing is firm and nothing even loaded into the computers.
 
kaitak744
Topic Author
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RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:08 pm

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 23):
No offense, but newspaper means crap.
Nothing from NH, which matters the most. Other than the fact that NH is studying the feasibility of re-starting the route as announced earlier this winter, nothing is firm and nothing even loaded into the computers.

Well, what else really would they do with all those extra aircraft??? They can't be using all their 777-200ERs on Asia and Japan routes.
 
Carpethead
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RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:52 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 24):
They can't be using all their 777-200ERs on Asia and Japan routes.

But in fact, they are doing exactly that. Welcome to Japan, where we abuse aircraft.
But do I care: Heck no. If NH is making plenty of profits, more power to them. It's always nice to have a business class seats on a one hour hop. I have checked into a few flights only to find a weird seat map (2-2-2 in the front). It's usually the older 763ERs subbing for domestic 763 birds.
 
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Flying Belgian
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RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:45 pm

But I've heard they weren't able to start new services to Europe beacuse of a lack of aircrafts (especially 772ER).

Not so long ago DUB, MAN, MUC and BRU were rumoured destinations !!

But now I have the impression that NH gives it all for its US network.

FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4100
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:35 pm

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 26):
But I've heard they weren't able to start new services to Europe beacuse of a lack of aircrafts (especially 772ER).

More likely because of lack of viable NRT slots...
 
flymunich
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RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:33 pm

From summer 07 NGO-MUC???
 
bmacleod
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RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:48 pm

When did ANA stop 744 flights to LAX and JFK?

Quoting Kaitak744 (Thread starter):
Now, with those 12 744s, they serve LHR, FRA, CDG, and HKG all 1x daily. With that schedule, they should be using no more than 8 747-400s. Yet, they have 12.

Yes 12 seems to be a high number for only 4 destinations though they could be holding them in storage until they have a firm decision on their plans....
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
cricket
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RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:59 pm

I'm surprised NH has not begun a service to BOM/DEL as yet, given the amount of Japanese business interests in India - a 4x JL NRT-DEL flight isn't enough. I'm sure a service to BOM would be profitable from Day 1.
been there, flown that
 
TokyoNarita
Posts: 556
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RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:51 am

Quote:
Carpethead
No offense, but newspaper means crap.
Nothing from NH, which matters the most. Other than the fact that NH is studying the feasibility of re-starting the route as announced earlier this winter, nothing is firm and nothing even loaded into the computers.

I would say the president of ANA making statement to the media is pretty official and I would also say the sources are credible. I see that you have the Japanese flag on. So you must know The Japan Times, the most reputable English newspaper in Japan. It is a subsription site tho...but it's all there.

Linky

Linky

ANA will resume Narita-O'Hare service in the fall

TokyoNarita.

[Edited 2006-06-27 23:52:37]
 
Carpethead
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Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:19 am

Quoting TokyoNarita (Reply 31):

I won't argue on those articles as I have seen them too, but when NH or JL are to establish new routes whether domestic or int'l a press statement is made on their website. There is nothing to indicate that NRT-ORD is coming and during the winter schedule the NRT-ORD isn't even in their system. Granted it's still a few months away.
Also I would note that on the rare exception, new intercontinental routes connecting northern countries are ever started during northern hemisphere winter season. Another argument is cargo, but NH is sending a few weeklies 76Fs to ORD via ANC. Another minus factor for a winter start-up to NRT-ORD.
 
Tod
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RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:27 am

Four of the 772ER (JA707A, JA708A, JA709A and JA710A) will be converted to a domestic configuration (35J/271Y) staring about January 2007.

Tod
 
jumboforever
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:30 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 29):
When did ANA stop 744 flights to LAX and JFK?

When they got their 773ER. IIRC JFK flight started with a 773ER May last year and LAX in October.

However in the past weeks it looks like LAX saw some 744. Capacity adjustment probably.

Best Regards,

JumboForever
 
BOMboy
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:45 am

RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:57 am

This is my first post - great site!
I am surprised that neither JL nor ANA fly BOM to NRT/KIX. Are either planning to re-start the route
 
ualcsr
Posts: 381
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 12:53 pm

RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:19 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Thread starter):
ANA plans to switch the IAD flight to a 773ER and start daily ORD with a 777-200ER

Pure speculation here on my end, but could ANA's planned ORD service be part of a comprise to let UA start IAD-NRT service? ORD-NRT is already well served by UA, AA and JL and it seems a little odd that ANA would want to add a crowded market.
 
jumboforever
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:47 pm

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 36):
Pure speculation here on my end, but could ANA's planned ORD service be part of a comprise to let UA start IAD-NRT service?

ANA had a party in Washington DC 2 weeks ago to introduce their new Business and First class product with the 773ER. Two business class seats and on first seats were presented to top tier flyer. I doubt they would do this if there were plans to withdraw from IAD in the near future, but this is pure speculation too.

Regards,

JumboForever
 
SA744
Posts: 202
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:13 pm

RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:20 pm

do you think ANA will consider flying to JNB or is not a profitable consideration
 
kaitak744
Topic Author
Posts: 2220
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:32 pm

RE: ANA Future Long-haul Plans

Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:33 pm

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 36):
ORD-NRT is already well served by UA, AA and JL and it seems a little odd that ANA would want to add a crowded market.

No, it seems perfectly logical if they start ORD-NRT with their new Business and First interior. It would provide some very good competition to AA, JL, and UA, none of which yet have a modern cabin on that route.

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