Quoting Onetogo (Reply 52): Uh, yes it does. If you do not respect the job that he and his coworkers have done, then I suggest you simply forget about a.net. Also, how about trying to sound a little mature, Airzim? Your posts in this thread have been pathetic. If you are trying to convince yourself that you are on here to actually discuss aviation related matters, then you should be embarrassed.

What?

He's a pilot, not in management. This is a lesson in reality not fantasy. I'm calling bullshit when appropriate. A pilot is no more an expert on how to run an airline as a doctor is on how to run a hospital.

What's the difference between a pilot and a jet engine? The engine stops whining when it gets to the gate.

If one round of golf is going to lead to a merger, can you imagine what would happen if they had dinner together?

Quoting Turnit56N (Reply 42): CO's actual CEO, Larry Kellner, has said publicly that CO is not looking to merge with anyone. The airline's rapid recent growth is in part an effort to keep that from happening. While CO does not want to merge with anyone, a merger of two other large network carriers would force them to merge in order to remain competitive. At this point, CO doesn't have the ability to compete with a DL/NW or other similar merger. So I wouldn't expect to see CO merge with anyone unless two other large legacies end up merging first.

BINGO!!!

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 50): I saw a CO and UA plane taxing one after another, maybe that is a sign?

You know, thats wierd, cause I have witnessed this phenomenon too. I think it is a sign.

Come to think of it, I saw a UA plane at a gate in CLE, a CO hub. I think that seals the deal for me. They are probably merging tomorrow. Before you know it we will see a UA plane flying a CLE-ORD route non-stop, then we will know.   

Quoting Airzim (Reply 47): And you're an expert because you ride in the front! And you had to throw in the 20+ years didn't you. Now that gives you tons of respect. You were also co-owner of the largest bankruptcy in US aviation and you did such a great job I must commend you and your fellow co-workers on the Board. If you and the other UAL pilots were so smart, how did you end up in bankruptcy? Nice job on the pension default. Between UA and US, you've destroyed the pension obligations promised to all pilots in the US.

  

You have gone a little too far in this thread Airzim. Does every post of yours have to be a personal attack? It is totally uncalled for you to blame the pilots for United's problems and the pension defaults. Since this is an aviation site, I think 20+ years of experience as a pilot warrants some respect here.

Quoting Airzim (Reply 11): I just choked on my own throw up because I was laughing so hard. You are pathetic, what other universe do you inhabit? Certainly not this one.

This post has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. I have suggested deletion as it is just a personal attack on WorldTraveler. The least you could have done was contribute to the thread. Not once do you say, "I disagree WorldTraveler, I think this....", and then you could back up your ridiculous statement.

"And you're an expert because you ride in the front! And you had to throw in the 20+ years didn't you. Now that gives you tons of respect"



I know a guy that has been a bus driver for almost 30 years, and he can't understand why the people running his company don't ask him for advice.

Quoting Zone1 (Reply 58): You have gone a little too far in this thread Airzim. Does every post of yours have to be a personal attack? It is totally uncalled for you to blame the pilots for United's problems and the pension defaults. Since this is an aviation site, I think 20+ years of experience as a pilot warrants some respect here.

When people make dumb statements, no doubt!

I unequivically disagree. United's pilots have everything to do with driving their salaries to unrealistic levels. Same with Delta and US Airways. Those outrageous contracts they forced through management when the airlines could grow money on trees. Greed created the situation the airlines are in today. If it wasn't the pilots contracts, it was management not investing enough in stable financial instruments to guarantee pensions. Coupled with oil prices this was forecasted to happen eventually.

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 59): This post has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. I have suggested deletion as it is just a personal attack on WorldTraveler. The least you could have done was contribute to the thread. Not once do you say, "I disagree WorldTraveler, I think this....", and then you could back up your ridiculous statement.

And still nothing is disputed.

Quoting Airzim (Reply 61): I unequivically disagree. United's pilots have everything to do with driving their salaries to unrealistic levels. Same with Delta and US Airways. Those outrageous contracts they forced through management when the airlines could grow money on trees. Greed created the situation the airlines are in today. If it wasn't the pilots contracts, it was management not investing enough in stable financial instruments to guarantee pensions. Coupled with oil prices this was forecasted to happen eventually

Based on this reasoning WN and CO should be headed to bankruptcy too since their pilot pay is high compared to most other airlines. Pilot pay is only a small part of the equation.

Quoting Airzim (Reply 47): Quoting Mcdu (Reply 45): CALite, Peanuts Fares and various other death door nails laid into the twice Bankrupt CAL. So your point is? UAL is on a strong return path despite what you amateurs think. With close to 5 billion in the bank UAL is positioning itself to be a purchaser of strategic advantage. If you care to read the recent WSJ report and if you care to listen to Tilton speak, you will find your answers. UAL is awaiting the outcome of the DL/NW BK process. If DL/NW merge then UAL will act. If not then perhaps UA and DL will become dance partners. Finally Tilton has said he wants to position UAL to be an acquiring carrier if it is RIGHT for the corporation. Oh God we have another Worldtraveler on our hands. Quoting Mcdu (Reply 45): As a 20+year veteran pilot for UAL it pains me to see the types of irresponsible writing that many put on this forum. I certainly hope it is just a bunch of underage children that have little or no world experience or knowledge that post such things. But I have a suspicion it may very well be the overinflated literally and physically armchair quarterbacks that think they know everything about aviation because they rode in the back of an airplane last year. And you're an expert because you ride in the front! And you had to throw in the 20+ years didn't you. Now that gives you tons of respect. You were also co-owner of the largest bankruptcy in US aviation and you did such a great job I must commend you and your fellow co-workers on the Board. If you and the other UAL pilots were so smart, how did you end up in bankruptcy? Nice job on the pension default. Between UA and US, you've destroyed the pension obligations promised to all pilots in the US.

ROCK ON AIRZIM!! It looks like Mcdu has met his match!!

I agree completely with AIRZIM... you see right through the bullshit and big HEADS!!  

Oh some of us know precisely why some people post on this board and it is because they have a general grudge against the world and specifically those people that can accomplish something in the world. In the context of this discussion, it is Delta Air Lines. Airzim has been the lead cheerleader on the Delta bashing team for quite some time now. However, some of us are thoroughly enjoying the fact that Airzim and his squad of malcontents are being proven wrong every time Delta releases a new financial statement.

It doesn’t require a great deal of intelligence to comment on news releases that have already been issued by a company. It takes a lot more creativity and intelligence to recognize the trends that are occurring in the airline industry and extend them out a couple of years.

Delta is very much in the hunt to be not only a survivor and an acquirer in an industry that is likely to consolidate. It is clear that some people wouldn’t accept the truth if it was handed to them on tablets of stone from on high but there is no doubt that DL is not going to end up on the ash heap as Airzim and his cohorts want to happen. And there will be those of us that will ensure that he (she?) and his/her pathetic little army are forced to lick up the vomit which they so freely spew at other people.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 17): Quoting Airzim (Reply 11): I just choked on my own throw up because I was laughing so hard. You are pathetic, what other universe do you inhabit? Certainly not this one. The only thing pathetic was your response to a persons stated opinion. The whole point of this forum is to discuss civil aviation, and most discussions are a combination of opinion and fact. I suggest you re-examine why you even come here.

Quoting ORD (Reply 53): JFK is not a UA focus city

Thats right, they just fly to Tokyo, London, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Washington from JFK for the fun of it!

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 4): The merger would make sense.

No, it wouldn't.

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 9): I don't see how it could happen since the merger with UA/US was turned down...CO is bigger...the new airline would dominate too much of the air system in the US!

I agree with you.

Quoting ORD (Reply 22): As for domination, a UA/CO combo would be #1 in terms of passengers, but only carry 12.6% more pax than AA (based on January 2006 numbers). That compares to #1 AA now carrying 13.7% more pax than #2 Southwest (and 32.9% more pax than the next-largest legacy carrier in terms of pax, Delta).

I don't think a UA/CO would make through any court. The companies are too strong, big, and financially sound (compared to the rest of the market) in order for such merger to occur. If anything, I would see either UAL, AA, CO merge with either NW or DL. Any combo is more viable than UAL/CO. Besides, they're not even in the Star Alliance/Sky Team. I think CO merging with NW/DL is actually the best.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 17): Insiders ARE allowed to trade you know!

Reminds me of Martha Stewart..... Ughh!

Quoting Turnit56N (Reply 42): CO's actual CEO, Larry Kellner, has said publicly that CO is not looking to merge with anyone.

Bingo!   

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 49): CAL would be better off buying AS if they really want to get their foot in the west coast...and the fleets would work out alot better as well.

Dude, nobody could AFFORD to buy-out AS. AS is a codeshare whore and they are way too profitable for the markets they do. AS being bought out by anyone is a snowball's chance in hell. Keep dreaming!

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 51): Perhaps Mr. Tilton wants Gordon to take over the reigns of UAL.

Now, that would turn things around at UA, they need the help!

As for merger rumors...I dont think there are going to be anymore mergers for a very, very long time in the U.S. The HP/US merger is probably gonna be the last one for awhile, IMO.

Ah, yes, the never-ending-UA-CO-merger thread. Part XCIV?

Quoting Airzim (Reply 54): What's the difference between a pilot and a jet engine? The engine stops whining when it gets to the gate.

So zim,

Could you elaborate on what it is you find interesting about airlines and aviation that brings you to this forum? As I stated earlier I am a UAL pilot that loves my company and have given it everything I have for 20+ years. I like airplanes and I like flying that is why I am here. Often there are operational questions and I enjoy those as someone might get a question answered or a misunderstanding could be prevented by the true story behind what is happening on a flight. I am proud of my company and the routes/fleet that we fly. I enjoy sharing CH9 with the passengers as it is a tool to understand what is happening. As such I will not sit idly by while someone takes aim at my company with unwarrented claims of fact. You have missed the boat on many items. On the issue of contracts I will suffice it to say that both the pilot group and the company sign the papers, that includes the pay raises and the pay cuts.

The planes on this site require pilots to fly them....at least for now. So to visit a site that is airplane and airline oriented to only throw stones at the guy s flying the plane is a bit ridiculous if you think about it. I understand if you never were able to check out as a pilot. It does take time and effort to secure the ratings for the job and then the timing in the industry plays a great deal of the success. Look at the poor guys that have spent a lifes fortune to be stuck in an RJ for an indeterminate amount of time. They most likely did not have their career sights set on flying a 50 seater for the rest of their careers. I was fortunate to be hired by UAL and am still proud of my company.

When I was a boy my mother always told me that those that were envious shouted the loudest. I will take that as what is happening in your case and move on. I am happy to be leaving for trip tommorow and flying to an international destination. I am happy to meet with my crew on the layover and share some laughs and fun. All I can hope is that in your life of casting hate and malcontent via and anonymous web board that at some point in your life you can also have a peace and enjoyment that does not involve such callous behaviour as you exhibit here.

Good Luck

Quoting FlyHoss (Reply 65): Ah, yes, the never-ending-UA-CO-merger thread. Part XCIV?

Thats why I suggested that the tread be deleted in my reply #3.

This thread is completely false. There has been no discussions between UAL and CO. UAL management is busy at work trying to increase operating margins and are busy with the upcoming launch of United's revamped International Premium Product or IPP. Furthermore, Tilton and company have been busy taking their business plan to institutional investors. UAL management has indicated repeatedly that their focus remains precisely that, and to date, NO discussions have ocurred between the company and any other carrier regarding a possible combination. Should market opportunities present themselves, UAL management has stated that at such time, the company would become an active player in further industry consolidation. This thread just fuels the fire of a completely unsubstantiated rumor that has been the topic of frontline employees of both carriers and on internet message boards. It is completely inaccurate information, to date. Enough said...

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 64): It is clear that some people wouldn't accept the truth if it was handed to them on tablets of stone from on high

  

I don't agree with almost anything you write, but that one is right on the spot for yourself.

Quoting Airzim (Reply 11): I just choked on my own throw up because I was laughing so hard. You are pathetic, what other universe do you inhabit? Certainly not this one.

Speaking of pathetic, is the way you talk when you're socializing with people you don't know?

Quoting Slider (Reply 14): He is the CEO and Head Cheerleader of Deltoid, Inc. Nothing more. The biggest DL sycophant that exists here.

There are plenty of those on this board - unless they are overly offensive in their tone or language, I don't see how they warrant Airzim's response.

Quoting Travatl (Reply 27): I've worked in this industry long enough not to believe anything until the paint's dried....

Perhaps, but then why have a discussion board - we could all just wait for the press releases to come out.

Quoting ARGinLON (Reply 31): This is my favourite topic here discussed over and over without serious/actual sources. This should be deleted.

If it were offensive, I'd agree. Could he change the title? Sure. But wouldn't it be easier to just ignore any thread that bothers you rather than take your time to type a response and suggest deletion?

Quoting Joeman (Reply 32): ...and yes, the obligatory CLE "hub" closure comment so traditional with any CO/UA merger discussion.

It's true that it is said in virtually every one of these discussions, but I think that what most envision is a controlled reduction in capacity, which along with selective reductions in other cities would allow them to either replace aging aircraft without ordering new ones or add new city-pairs currently not served.

I'm sure the FF base in Cleveland is decent for CO, and they've invested a lot of money and time in developing it as a hub. I think the same could be said for DL at DFW. In the end, unless it makes more sense to leave the capacity from a ROI perpsective (perhaps an oxymoron in the airline business), then I think reductions are likely in order.

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 41): Has that stopped a merger of any airline in the past?

Maybe not, but it probably should have  .

Quoting Airzim (Reply 47): And you're an expert because you ride in the front! And you had to throw in the 20+ years didn't you. Now that gives you tons of respect.

And you're an expert...why?

Quoting Commavia (Reply 48): Isn't that just a match made in hell? United and Delta?

Don't laugh, but I like AA+DL better. I know, too much Atlantic and not enough Pacific, but I still like it.

Quoting Zone1 (Reply 58): You have gone a little too far in this thread Airzim. Does every post of yours have to be a personal attack?

It's gotten really hostile on these forums lately. Maybe it's the heat.  

-Dave

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 65): Thats right, they just fly to Tokyo, London, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Washington from JFK for the fun of it!

From Wikipedia:
"In the airline industry, a focus city is a location that is not a hub, but from which the airline has flights to at least several destinations other than its hubs." (Example: Northwest serves 22 non-hub destinations from Indianapolis.)

UA does not serve any non-hub destinations from JFK. NRT, LAX and SFO are all hubs. IAD is also a hub, although not served by UA mainline from JFK. LHR can somewhat be considered a hub, but UA is barely hanging on there with one single flight.

In fact, I would call JFK a de-focused city considering all the domestic and international flights they have dropped from JFK over the last few years.

No one has to believe this but here.....

I just started working for CO as a F/A. During training Larry came to meet our class, and quite a few asked the merger question. Larry said very firmly that he does not think it would be good at this time. He thinks that we are doing ok on our own now and that a merger would be a last case scenario. He said though one thing that for sure would cause us to merge with someone else(not necessarily United) was that if two of the other majors merged.

I do however here alot of talk about this especially amongst the airport agents, but not so much amongs flight attendants.

Quoting Airzim (Reply 44): Nice job on the pension default. Between UA and US, you've destroyed the pension obligations promised to all pilots in the US.

What a silly remark, and ignorant one, to make. This is how bankruptcy works: To attract exit financing, distressed companies have to remove significant liabilities from their balance sheets. With several legacy carriers operating in Chapter 11, the only recourse they had in order to rid themselves of these significant liabilities (underfunded employee pensions), was to default and thrust them upon the already underfunded PBGC. Wall Street is not going to cough up exit financing to a company in bankruptcy with such heavy debt obligations unresolved. If you want to point blame, perhaps you should direct your finger-pointing to the real culprit: Industry lobbyists who have influenced our nation's law-makers into allowing companies to underfund their pension obligations in the first place.

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 7): If DL continues its transformation as successfully

I don't see any successful yet, where's the net profit? still in bankruptcy..

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 66): Quoting Airzim (Reply 54): What's the difference between a pilot and a jet engine? The engine stops whining when it gets to the gate. So zim, Could you elaborate on what it is you find interesting about airlines and aviation that brings you to this forum? As I stated earlier I am a UAL pilot that loves my company and have given it everything I have for 20+ years. I like airplanes and I like flying that is why I am here. Often there are operational questions and I enjoy those as someone might get a question answered or a misunderstanding could be prevented by the true story behind what is happening on a flight. I am proud of my company and the routes/fleet that we fly. I enjoy sharing CH9 with the passengers as it is a tool to understand what is happening. As such I will not sit idly by while someone takes aim at my company with unwarrented claims of fact. You have missed the boat on many items. On the issue of contracts I will suffice it to say that both the pilot group and the company sign the papers, that includes the pay raises and the pay cuts. The planes on this site require pilots to fly them....at least for now. So to visit a site that is airplane and airline oriented to only throw stones at the guy s flying the plane is a bit ridiculous if you think about it. I understand if you never were able to check out as a pilot. It does take time and effort to secure the ratings for the job and then the timing in the industry plays a great deal of the success. Look at the poor guys that have spent a lifes fortune to be stuck in an RJ for an indeterminate amount of time. They most likely did not have their career sights set on flying a 50 seater for the rest of their careers. I was fortunate to be hired by UAL and am still proud of my company. When I was a boy my mother always told me that those that were envious shouted the loudest. I will take that as what is happening in your case and move on. I am happy to be leaving for trip tommorow and flying to an international destination. I am happy to meet with my crew on the layover and share some laughs and fun. All I can hope is that in your life of casting hate and malcontent via and anonymous web board that at some point in your life you can also have a peace and enjoyment that does not involve such callous behaviour as you exhibit here. Good Luck

OMG, I am laughing so hard right now I'm crying. That has got to be the all time worst rebuttal I have ever seen in my life.

"and I had to walk everyday, uphill, in the snow, both ways, to make it to flight school so that I could fly 40 hours a month making over $200,000 a year. Good lord get over yourself. Some of us have worked just as hard in whatever our chosen profession. Sympathy for RJ pilots, you've got to be kidding. Didn't realize they were foreced to work there.

I know I don't have many fans on here. I could really care less. I pointing out BS where I see it. Worldtravler is Singapore_Air without the silk sarong. He's so full of crap I just can't help pointing it out. And yet Pollyanna continues to come out to play and talks about DL's upcoming world domimation. I have never said DL should go away. Quite the opposite. I'm all about the reality check.

Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 74): Quoting Lincoln (Reply 7): If DL continues its transformation as successfully

Wait.... I never said that!

If CO had a decent mini-hub, maybe even smaller than CLE, in the U.S. West Coast (suitable candidates: ANC, PDX, OAK, SJC, SMF, ONT, LAS) with flights to the major Asian/Australia/NZ destinations which wouldn't be profitable to support flights on B777 from EWR/IAH, CO wouldn't be a bit interested in UA at all. CO B757 transpacific to Japan anyone?
It's just that CO's GUM hub can't possible work very well for a possible CO Asian Expansion.
CO in LHR could be very attractive, but to merge with UA just to get those slots it's crayze.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 77): CO B757 transpacific to Japan anyone?

If it could make the hop and make money, I'm sure they'd do it. Heck, I'd fly on it too... one aisle or two makes no nevermind to me as long as there's a seat on the plane I want on. (but then, 18 years of Non-reving does that to you)

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 77): (suitable candidates: ANC, PDX, OAK, SJC, SMF, ONT, LAS)

SMF - Boarded nearly 10,000,000 passengers last year/About 27,000 passengers O/D on a daily basis!

[Edited 2006-06-30 01:28:10]

Quoting Airzim (Reply 75): OMG, I am laughing so hard right now I'm crying. That has got to be the all time worst rebuttal I have ever seen in my life. "and I had to walk everyday, uphill, in the snow, both ways, to make it to flight school so that I could fly 40 hours a month making over $200,000 a year. Good lord get over yourself. Some of us have worked just as hard in whatever our chosen profession. Sympathy for RJ pilots, you've got to be kidding. Didn't realize they were foreced to work there. I know I don't have many fans on here. I could really care less. I pointing out BS where I see it. Worldtravler is Singapore_Air without the silk sarong. He's so full of crap I just can't help pointing it out. And yet Pollyanna continues to come out to play and talks about DL's upcoming world domimation. I have never said DL should go away. Quite the opposite. I'm all about the reality check.

You are an idiot, and a rude one at that. If you knew how to ADD or maybe even knew what pilots make, you would know that FEW pilots even touch 200,000, and they certainly don't after taxes.

My father is a 28 year, 777 captain at UA and he doesn't make 200k after flying 90 hours a month.

Pilots have all paid their dues, and MCDU is spot on.

If you point out BS where you see it, your arm must hurt if you look at yourself in the mirror for more than 2 minutes. YOU need to get over yourself. All MCDU said was that he likes to answer operational questions and help customers. He posted in an extremely respectful and eloquent manner, and you come back with this. Grow up.

For your information, I am in flight school right now, flying 4 times a week in the 100 degree weather. Turbulence is aweful and I come out of the aircraft soaked with sweat. However, I love it.

I am dropping 40K for my flight ratings so I can be a flight instructer for 18 months making $14 an hour bouncing around in a 172.

Then I get to go to a regional and provided I don't wash out of training, I will make roughly $22 dollars a flight hour my first year. Big dollars right? I will make as much as an assistant manager at McDonalds and net about 19K.

Then after I upgrade to captain, I will get to go fight for a job with the majors. If I get the phone call, my first year FO pay at a carrier like UA will be about $35 a flight hour, a far cry from the 200K you are talking about.

Provided I don't do something stupid or develop a medical problem I will get to upgrade to A320 captain after about 8-9 years assuming there is decent growth/turnover. I will then be making $126 a flight hour and will net about $80,000 because you cannot fly more than 1,000 hours a year, and 80 a month is busy, and I will be home about 12-15 days a month, and I will be working every holiday because of my relatively low senority.

After about 23-25 years with the company, provided they havent filed liquidated, I will be able to upgrade to 777 captain and will fly about 80 hours a month,netting about 130-140K, which is 70,000 dollars short of your 200k figure.

Oh, I have to retire at 60 too.

The point of this little exercize is to show you how uninformed and full of crap you are. MCDU might be eloquent and nice, but I'm not. You have been spouting off and insulting people while throwing out grossly inflated salary numbers.

Go back to playing flight sim 2005, with your thrift store captains hat.

Quoting Ual777 (Reply 80): Quoting Airzim (Reply 75): OMG, I am laughing so hard right now I'm crying. That has got to be the all time worst rebuttal I have ever seen in my life. "and I had to walk everyday, uphill, in the snow, both ways, to make it to flight school so that I could fly 40 hours a month making over $200,000 a year. Good lord get over yourself. Some of us have worked just as hard in whatever our chosen profession. Sympathy for RJ pilots, you've got to be kidding. Didn't realize they were foreced to work there. I know I don't have many fans on here. I could really care less. I pointing out BS where I see it. Worldtravler is Singapore_Air without the silk sarong. He's so full of crap I just can't help pointing it out. And yet Pollyanna continues to come out to play and talks about DL's upcoming world domimation. I have never said DL should go away. Quite the opposite. I'm all about the reality check. You are an idiot, and a rude one at that. If you knew how to ADD or maybe even knew what pilots make, you would know that FEW pilots even touch 200,000, and they certainly don't after taxes. My father is a 28 year, 777 captain at UA and he doesn't make 200k after flying 90 hours a month. Pilots have all paid their dues, and MCDU is spot on. If you point out BS where you see it, your arm must hurt if you look at yourself in the mirror for more than 2 minutes. YOU need to get over yourself. All MCDU said was that he likes to answer operational questions and help customers. He posted in an extremely respectful and eloquent manner, and you come back with this. Grow up. For your information, I am in flight school right now, flying 4 times a week in the 100 degree weather. Turbulence is aweful and I come out of the aircraft soaked with sweat. However, I love it. I am dropping 40K for my flight ratings so I can be a flight instructer for 18 months making $14 an hour bouncing around in a 172. Then I get to go to a regional and provided I don't wash out of training, I will make roughly $22 dollars a flight hour my first year. Big dollars right? I will make as much as an assistant manager at McDonalds and net about 19K. Then after I upgrade to captain, I will get to go fight for a job with the majors. If I get the phone call, my first year FO pay at a carrier like UA will be about $35 a flight hour, a far cry from the 200K you are talking about. Provided I don't do something stupid or develop a medical problem I will get to upgrade to A320 captain after about 8-9 years assuming there is decent growth/turnover. I will then be making $126 a flight hour and will net about $80,000 because you cannot fly more than 1,000 hours a year, and 80 a month is busy, and I will be home about 12-15 days a month, and I will be working every holiday because of my relatively low senority. After about 23-25 years with the company, provided they havent filed liquidated, I will be able to upgrade to 777 captain and will fly about 80 hours a month,netting about 130-140K, which is 70,000 dollars short of your 200k figure. Oh, I have to retire at 60 too. The point of this little exercize is to show you how uninformed and full of crap you are. MCDU might be eloquent and nice, but I'm not. You have been spouting off and insulting people while throwing out grossly inflated salary numbers. Go back to playing flight sim 2005, with your thrift store captains hat.

Boo ho. Go cry me a river. I'll say it again, the engines stop whining when they get to the gate, unlike pilots. You sound like a spoiled brat.

YOU chose to work at the airlines. YOU knew what you were getting into. YOU made that decision. Don't dare sit here and blast me for your poor carrer choices. Go work on Wall Street if you want to make $1million dollars a year. Go work at Emirates, go work at EVA Air. Go work at Japan Airlines. So sorry you have to sweat during turbulence. Give me a break.

By the way have you ever heard to tounge in cheek? I know many pilots at UA, that made over $200,000 a year flying 744's to SYD 4 times a month. That wasn't the point. Try and take a step back from the instrument panel and look at the big picture. Yet nobody is denying that the ridiculous pilots contract helped put UA in their current spot. That they actually were paid not to fly in some cases. That they got a sweetheart deal that is now dead. So get off your high horse and come back to reality.

Thank God they put secure locks on the cockpits, so the passengers in first class don't have to hear this bellyaching.

I pray that this does not happen. I think the airlines have two very different "personalities", especially amongst employees. UAL employees are shot from the hell they've taken over the years (paycuts, etc.). CO employees know what they need to do to stay on task, hence why they are rated #1 of the majors in that new stat resulted released today.

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 66): I enjoy sharing CH9 with the passengers as it is a tool to understand what is happening.

Thank you for being one of the Captains that turn CH 9 on. I look forward to this every UA flight.

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 66): On the issue of contracts I will suffice it to say that both the pilot group and the company sign the papers, that includes the pay raises and the pay cuts.

Absolutely correct. My brother is a DL Captain, and when I asked him the same thing - aren't DL pilots at fault for the company going into the red? His response - when the fat contracts were signed, DL was making a boatload of money. Once the red started flowing pay cuts were inevitable, and he recognizes it as part of the business. He also reminded my that no one put a gun to management's head when they signed those fat contracts....

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Thread starter): A good friend who is in senior management with UA has told me theat Bethune and Tilton have been talking merger. Last week the two played a round of Golf in New Jersey then sat down and talked numbers for quite some time.

Now you don't think someone was 'funning' someone do you?

        

Quoting COewraatysaz (Reply 82): Boo ho. Go cry me a river. I'll say it again, the engines stop whining when they get to the gate, unlike pilots. You sound like a spoiled brat. YOU chose to work at the airlines. YOU knew what you were getting into. YOU made that decision. Don't dare sit here and blast me for your poor carrer choices. Go work on Wall Street if you want to make $1million dollars a year. Go work at Emirates, go work at EVA Air. Go work at Japan Airlines. So sorry you have to sweat during turbulence. Give me a break. By the way have you ever heard to tounge in cheek? I know many pilots at UA, that made over $200,000 a year flying 744's to SYD 4 times a month. That wasn't the point. Try and take a step back from the instrument panel and look at the big picture. Yet nobody is denying that the ridiculous pilots contract helped put UA in their current spot. That they actually were paid not to fly in some cases. That they got a sweetheart deal that is now dead. So get off your high horse and come back to reality. Thank God they put secure locks on the cockpits, so the passengers in first class don't have to hear this bellyaching.

First of all, I am far from spoiled nor am I on a high horse. I pay for my own flight training, work 50 hours a week, and attend university classes at night. I gave up an Air Force scholarship out of high school to join the Marine Corps, and I was medically discharged after recruit training. So you can take that drivel somewhere else.

Second of all, Trips to SYD are 4.5-5 day trips. That means that the pilots are working 18 days a month and accumulating about 80 flight hours, so your rediculous statement about working 8 days a month with 40 flight hours does not stand.

Third, I am blaming no one for my career choice. In fact I am happy with it. I just get tired of bitter people like yourself who bash pilots out of jealousy, hate, or whatever. I just showed you how far off the paymark you were. So what if pilots made more than 200k. That was FIVE years ago. You are the one that needs to come back to reality my friend.

Lastly, I am not bellyaching about anything. I love to fly. I work hard at what I do, and it is not easy. Learning to fly full-time is like trying to drink from a fire hose. Throughout flight training, you feel like you are behind the power curve 90% of the time because there is so much information to learn. This is the reason that most people don't even get to their commercial license.

That being said, a lot of pilots DO bitch alot. Then again, a lot of people bitch about their jobs everyday. You were wrong on your inflammatory comments and I called you on it. Mcdu makes a valid contribution to the forum, trying to explain the REALITY and you sit and talk sh## to him because you don't like pilots. I don't care if you like pilots or not really, but if you want to step in to a discussion, at least post real numbers to support your argument so you do not look like a fool.

Quoting Airzim (Reply 51): What's the difference between a pilot and a jet engine? The engine stops whining when it gets to the gate.

Sorry this may not be too nice, but you have to admit it is funny.

              

Quoting Airzim (Reply 81): YOU chose to work at the airlines. YOU knew what you were getting into. YOU made that decision. Don't dare sit here and blast me for your poor carrer choices. Go work on Wall Street if you want to make $1million dollars a year. Go work at Emirates, go work at EVA Air. Go work at Japan Airlines. So sorry you have to sweat during turbulence. Give me a break.

UAL777 didn't say he was in it for the money. He said he was doing it because he loved it. People don't do a job just because of money. Some actually do a job because they enjoy it.

Maybe it's time you stepped back and see how you're acting. Sadly, your ignorant attitude isn't going to get you very far in life.

Quoting Callufrax (Reply 87): Some actually do a job because they enjoy it.

Very good point. If I had the money, I would be getting a CTP license as well, but unfortunately I am a semi-borke college student. Hopefully once I am done with school, I will make enough to pursue my dream of flying. I am over half way done with a private license but ran out of money. Even though you make crap starting out, the shear enjoyment that many get sitting behind the controls and flying would make it all worth it for me.

This is all very interesting.
Continental is in a tremendous hole.
They are fighting new onwnership laws because Virgin USA would pose a threat.
The reason is fundamental to EWR and IAH. They have reached there maximum potential and therefore leave CO vulnerable.

UA is out of CH-11 and in big trouble. They are headed back unless something changes.

The idea of CO and UA makes sense. There would have to be serious restructuring though and that would be challenging.

Regardless, consolidation is inevidable in some form or other.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 61): Delta is very much in the hunt to be not only a survivor and an acquirer in an industry that is likely to consolidate.

they will be acquired



as will nw



and ua



soon

Quoting UAORD2000 (Reply 21): Didn't the UA CEO and PanAm CEO agree to the selling of PanAm's Pacific routes over a game of golf

Maybe this is it - CO buys UA pacific division, and takes over most of its SF hub, leaving UA with DEN/ORD/IAD, Star Alliance partners...

Quoting Airzim (Reply 81): Thank God they put secure locks on the cockpits, so the passengers in first class don't have to hear this bellyaching.

...right, because those that have "mostly upgraded" do not whine or complain at all, if ever...I'm sorry sir, your upgrade is still waitlisted...and don't forget your rattle!

Quoting Aeroman62 (Reply 91): Maybe this is it - CO buys UA pacific division, and takes over most of its SF hub, leaving UA with DEN/ORD/IAD, Star Alliance partners...

ahhh, no,



the whole thing with ALL their pilots...



all very young pilots too

Quoting GoCOgo (Reply 5): (1) Hub overlap (ORD/CLE & EWR/IAD)

Those points are good ones, especially regarding fleet commonality. But we all know what would be the better hub candidates: EWR and ORD. Drop IAD and CLE to focus cities.

Tommy in EWR/LAX.

CO/UAL

Hubs:

EWR, ORD, DEN, IAH, SFO

Focus Cities:

IAD, LAX

International Hubs:

Narita, Guam

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 52): If one round of golf is going to lead to a merger, can you imagine what would happen if they had dinner together?

Then comes marriage and after that they have a darling little regional airline.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 64): Dude, nobody could AFFORD to buy-out AS. AS is a codeshare whore and they are way too profitable for the markets they do. AS being bought out by anyone is a snowball's chance in hell. Keep dreaming!

Hm... well what can I say... well AA came pretty close before they picked up TWA... if AS had had an MD80 go down the deal would have gone through, however AA wanted to avoid the inquary in to their MX records..

Quoting BillReid (Reply 89): Regardless, consolidation is inevidable in some form or other.

why so? planes are full... fares have increased and passengers are still flying...

Quoting Ludavid777 (Reply 98): Quoting BillReid (Reply 89): Regardless, consolidation is inevidable in some form or other. why so? planes are full... fares have increased and passengers are still flying...

Fares stil have a little further to go IMO before the industry stabilizes.... gas has gone up a lot.. and fares didn't begin to rise until the last 12 months... its going to take a few more hikes before they overcome the added cost.