More A380s For Lufthansa?

boeingbus · Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:39 pm

Quoting Johnny (Reply 48):

Isn´it strange that a lot airlines replace their 744 with B773ER already..?

Are they all wrong: ANA,AF,SQ,etc.... ?

Of course not! But chances are high my friend, they are increasing frequency or are not upgrading the 744 but the smaller older 747 models! The third reason could very well just be that they are not filling seats on the 747 so the 773ER is logical.

A big misconception is made here that the 773ER is a direct 744 replacement, it is not. An airline is either going to have to cut capacity or increase frequency to make up the seats lost.

Again, if it's by choice than that is a different story. Airline have to be willing to lose high revenue business and first class seats if they want to go with the 773ER.

Does LH want to fo this?

Being a premium carrier I do not think so... I think they are expanding oppose to shrinking.

Johnny · Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:50 pm

@BoeingBus

Take the B777-300ER with lower-deck toilets and galleys plus crew rest compartments on top of the pax cabin and you have much higher capacity with the same cargo-space as the B744.

Smile

columba · Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:50 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 41):
LH could probably get a very sweet deal on them, so why would they go for the 777?

Boeing has an agressive sales team that could make LH a very sweet deal as well. We donï¿½ t know what is being discussed.

Quoting Johnny (Reply 42):
They will most likely look for second-hand B777-200ER to convert them to freighters to replace their MD11s in some years time. So, from that point of view a B777-300ER order makes sense to build up a fleet, which would be extended to a familiy of airplanes with the B777-200BCF.Same crews for both airplanes would make it very interesting!

Very unlikely since LH is not very satisfied with its converted MD 11s. If there will be 777 freighters with LH Cargo expect them to be newly build.
I still see high chances for the 747-8F though since LH Cargo needs a 747 sized freighter and the nose door ability.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 43):
LH's A343 holds 247 pax, which would be a perfect fit for the 788 or 789 (depending on how they are used)

LH manager already stated that the 787 in its current versions is too small for their needs, the 787-9 would be the minimum. That is why there are rumors that they have taken high interest in the -10.

jacobin777 · Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:00 pm

Quoting Johnny (Reply 46):
@ Jacobin

Exactly. And it burns around 30% less fuel with only 10 seats less...

In my eyes a very good replacement!

we're getting into some competition here by a few A.net members.. Smile

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 47):

but you are comparing apples to ornges here... who cares about what EK does we are talking about LH... If you take account the floor space of a 744 and compare that to a 773ER, you will find the 747 has a big advantage.

I gave EK's seating as a "baseline"..something to compare to...

sure the 744 takes more space, but it has a higher trip cost...

I don't know about the CASM though (where is Zvezda when one needs him?)..

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 47):
So you are telling me that LH is willing to sacrifice 2 first, 22 business class... to gain 10 economy? and lose 10 seats less overall? we are not even discussing the advantage the 748 has being bigger, but yet be just as efficient as the 744???

LH can certainly "fiddle" with the seats to decrease economy and increas business/first...that would increase yield as it would remove the lower yield pax off the distribution curve....

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 47):
LH will not get the 773, that is why they have the A346 and most like if they need replacement you may see a A370 order.

well...given that at this point in time no one knows what the A370 is, why would they order that plane? Thats the farthest off....Johnny and I were making arguments for the 773, which is certainly much better than the A370...you can't put in any figures/reasons/numbers as to why they would get the A370..

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 49):
But EK does it with uncomfortable long-haul 10-abreast in their 773s. That's the only way the 773ER can encroach the capacity of the 744. Otherwise, the 773ER typically seats 50 or so less seats than the comparable 744.
The edge goes to 773ER for belly cargo though.

that's a matter of perception..there are more than enough LH and EK haters here... spin

...

as I've been saying, I think we'll see a 747-8 order before a 773 or A370 order..but the argument for the 773 is quite interesting nonetheless...

after all, it is A.net biggrin

boeingbus · Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:12 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 53):
no one knows what the A370 is, why would they order that plane?

no one? lol - If you just think for one minute that Airbus does not know your beloved 773ER to offer it a challenge than your being naive and stuck in that Seattle rut that anything Boeing is fantastic.

Your right, we don't know what the A370 is but don't assume that Airbus/select airlines do not know.

jacobin777 · Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:28 am

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 54):

no one? lol - If you just think for one minute that Airbus does not know your beloved 773ER to offer it a challenge than your being naive and stuck in that Seattle rut that anything Boeing is fantastic.

Sure..

....maybe you should mention that to EK's Clark..tell him to spend a few billion dollars on a frame which even he doesn't know too much about..

""Airbus told us that Singapore Airlines was excited by the new A370, but then they ordered the 787-9."

source:atwonline.com-22/06/06

okelleynyc · Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:51 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):
I also think that EK will end up increasing their A380 commitment as a way to solve the penalty issue and as a way to get out of the A346E deal.

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 28):
" Emirates Airlines, which has placed the single largest order of 45 A380, on Wednesday hinted that it would invoke the penalty provision in its purchase agreement with Airbus SAS. "We are considering our position and will be engaging with the manufacturer over the next few weeks," the airline said in a statement."

Isn't Emirates sort of bound to continue with their A380 purchases, especially since they've almost completed the construction of their A380 heavy maintenance facilities? I know that the hangars can be used for other aircraft, but it just seems that they've already made their choice; right or wrong.

Joni · Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:53 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 53):

well...given that at this point in time no one knows what the A370 is, why would they order that plane? Thats the farthest off....Johnny and I were making arguments for the 773, which is certainly much better than the A370...you can't put in any figures/reasons/numbers as to why they would get the A370..

How can you claim both that the 773 is "certainly much better" than the A370 and "at this point in time no one knows what the A370 is"?

Why would you assume that an older design would be better than a newer one?

jacobin777 · Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:06 am

Quoting Joni (Reply 57):
How can you claim both that the 773 is "certainly much better" than the A370 and "at this point in time no one knows what the A370 is"?

Why would you assume that an older design would be better than a newer one?

the 773 is a flying airplane..the economics, reliability, availability is all out there now......how the A370 performs no one knows...

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 55):
""Airbus told us that Singapore Airlines was excited by the new A370, but then they ordered the 787-9."

source:atwonline.com-22/06/06

as well as..

"Aside from the A380, Airbus still has challenges, Clark said. "We have not yet had a formal offering on the revised A350 [the so-called A370]. They have widened the fuselage and added a new high-speed wing but we have not seen a formal offering.""

source:atwonline.com-22/06/06

once again, that speaks volumes..

ozglobal · Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:53 am

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 27):
I'm surprised that European governments have not stepped up development of EuroCity high-speed train service all over Europe. Imagine a single-design trainset that can run on Eurostar tracks, TGV tracks, and German InterCity tracks at speeds up to 300 km/h for dedicated trans-European service. In short, imagine taking a train from London Waterloo station all the way to Frankfurt on all high-speed trackage.

Err, ....done. TGV technology now extends West of Paris to London, with the last 300km/h section opening soon; North to Brussels, with an all 300km/h line opening to Amsterdam next year; East to Frankfurt opening next year, linking German ICE on the same guage tracks; Not to mention Paris-Barcelona; Paris-Cologne and Paris-Marsaille. What's really cool is that 300km/h is not even a stretch for the TGV, with the rail speed record set back in '89 at 515km/h.... Why would you fly short haul?

johnnybgoode · Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:04 am

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 50):
A big misconception is made here that the 773ER is a direct 744 replacement, it is not. An airline is either going to have to cut capacity or increase frequency to make up the seats lost.

Thanks!
Everyone, please print out this quote and learn it by heart! 1000% on the spot.

More A380s For Lufthansa?

RE: More A380s For Lufthansa?

RE: More A380s For Lufthansa?

RE: More A380s For Lufthansa?

RE: More A380s For Lufthansa?

RE: More A380s For Lufthansa?

RE: More A380s For Lufthansa?

RE: More A380s For Lufthansa?

RE: More A380s For Lufthansa?

RE: More A380s For Lufthansa?

RE: More A380s For Lufthansa?

RE: More A380s For Lufthansa?

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net