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KarlB737
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Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:21 am

Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

On another thread some of us started heading in this direction. For example the question surfaced about LAF. If the university campus is large enough and the city has enough people can some type of service (probably commuter) be offered?

And does anyone know what happened at LAF with their airline service over time?
 
planespotting
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:52 am

We've debated this question on these boards before...but, historically (if i recall correctly at least), airline service based entirely on college-town traffic has usually been pretty crummy. Not that a college town couldn't increase pax during certain times of the year and supplement an already large enough O&D base, but most airlines would certainly be hard pressed to successfully operate a station based exclusively on traffic to and from a certain school.

There are some airports of course that operate close to large colleges. I go to the University of Iowa, and 20 mins away is the Eastern Iowa Airport located in Cedar Rapids, which is the airport of choice for people flying to and from the University of Iowa. Of course, during the summer, much of that college traffic dries up as the kids go home.

Another airport of comparable size, and metro-pax catchment area is BMI, (Central Illinois Regional Airport) which operates within a few minutes of Illinois State University and Illinois Wesleyan.

I'm sure there are others, but I know airports located in the Mississippi Valley the best...
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centrair
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:24 pm

MSN has some good traffic but it is not just the University of Wisconsin Madison, but also home to a few companies and the state capital. It is also close enough to ORD that people can take a shuttle and probably get a better deal even with the bus fare.
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Molykote
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:28 pm

I did a good amount of travel from SCE when attending Penn State. US was the most prominent provider but I had also flown on NW. I found some photos of DL aircraft as well at this airport.

From memory I had gone to/from SCE on perhaps 20 flights while in school on the following equipment.

US Dash 8
US CRJ
US Jetstream 41
US Saab 340
NW Saab 340 (to DTW)
NW CRJ (from DTW)
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jcavinato
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:46 pm

I taught at Penn State for about 20 years. I was one of the three or four most frequent fliers in and out of SCE. Through the 90s US, NWA, and UAL all made money at that station. Not sure about DL since they started right after we moved in 1999.

Typically: US five flights each way to PIT, four or five to PHL. UAL always had four to IAD. And NWA had three then four to DTW. The only light loads were outbound after about 7:00 pm to PHL or PIT in order to make up the near packed last inbounds for the evening.
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:50 pm

Champaign/Urbana, Illinois (CMI) population of about 130,000 and home of the University of Illinois (huge school) has nonstop service to Atlanta, Detroit, Dallas/Ft. Worth and Chicago.

Bloomington/Normal, IL (BMI) population about 80,000, home to Illinois State University (small) and Illinois Wesleyan University (smaller) has service to Atlanta, Chicago, Orlando, Detroit and Minneapolis. And BMI offers FREE parking!

Peoria, IL (PIA) population about 160,000, home to Bradley University (medium sized) has service to Las Vegas, Chicago, Dallas/Ft. Worth, Atlanta and Minneapolis. Parking is free here too.

It's all on RJ's (NWA to DTW may be on SAAB'S), but it's non-stop jet service to major hub cities. Bloomington even gets Air Tran 717's to Atlanta and 737's to Orlando.

Poor old Decatur, IL (DEC) population 80,000 and home to Millikin University (small) can only muster 3 or 4 flights a day to St. Louis, all on J31's or J41's. While they too offer free parking, they just don't draw the passenger numbers the other area towns do.

Carbondale, IL population unknown to me, is too close to St. Louis to have any air service.

So yea, at least in Central Illinois, most small cities with universities have excellent air service.
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sbnair3022
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:53 pm

would the numbers in these small towns go up with lower fares or would the numbers stay the same with just bigger losses for the airline?
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stirling
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:53 pm

Eugene.
University of Oregon.
I would have to believe it generates more traffic by it being there; considering the overall small size of the metro.

Corvallis once had airline service.

Other college towns in the west.....

Tucson AZ
Tempe AZ
Logan UT
Provo UT
Fort Collins CO
Boulder CO

Hard to Tell.
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gregarious119
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:58 pm

When I flew my sis-in-law from SCE/UNV to DAY, NW only had CRJ's doing the route, one morning and one afternoon flight. I wish I was the one taking that trip  Smile
 
meister808
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:01 pm

I'd be inclined to say yes... I'm personally familiar with GFK, where a small city with a medium-sized university and a medium-sized air force base effectively holds down 5 flights a day and constantly flirts with the idea of getting another carrier(it would be real nice).

Compared with the LAF example, Grand Forks as a whole (Grand Forks, East Grand Forks, UND, GFAFB) totals somewhere around 70,000 people. Lafayette (Lafayette, West Lafayette, Purdue) works out to around 80,000. As I see it, it's a pretty good argument supporting air service to such places. Of course, the region and proximity to metropolitan areas differs, but I think a lot of things would stay the same (many out-of-town students at Purdue are from the Chicago area, many at UND are from the Twin Cities area; both of these groups commute mainly by car).

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777STL
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:05 pm

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 5):
Carbondale, IL population unknown to me, is too close to St. Louis to have any air service.

Columbia, MO is comparable in size and is closer to STL than Carbondale is and they have air service. Though oddly Columbia has shuttle service to both STL and MCI and it probably takes no longer by ground.
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atrude777
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:07 pm

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 5):

Carbondale, IL population unknown to me, is too close to St. Louis to have any air service.

MDH or Carbondale used to be a hub for Air Illinois.

MDH is 15 min or so from MWA-Marion, Illinois which has direct 4 daily non stop service to STL on American Connection.

MWA is currently given a grant to operate Great Lakes MWA-MDW, grant has been given and now a route and date to be started is being subjected currently.

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CRGsFuture
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:08 pm

Quoting 77STL:
Columbia, MO is comparable in size and is closer to STL than Carbondale is and they have air service. Though oddly Columbia has shuttle service to both STL and MCI and it probably takes no longer by ground.

I think the reason Carbondale is not on the STL market and Columbia is; school prestige. Mizzou is more widely known and popular then SIU, that's changing but I read somewhere that Mizzou has a huge political backing besides being so famous.
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sbnair3022
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:09 pm

Quoting 777STL (Reply 10):
Columbia, MO is comparable in size and is closer to STL than Carbondale is and they have air service. Though oddly Columbia has shuttle service to both STL and MCI and it probably takes no longer by ground.

See now say LAF gets service to ORD, with the check-in and the security, it is much faster to drive than to fly, and cheaper.
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ZKSUJ
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:14 pm

Here in NZ, predominant university towns such as Dunedin and Palmerston North support scheduled services. They see a mix of very mainly domestic routes connecting with the main NZ centres AKL and CHC.

They use a majority of ATR72-500, Q300, SF 340 and 737-300 equiptment
 
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:54 pm

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 12):
I think the reason Carbondale is not on the STL market and Columbia is; school prestige. Mizzou is more widely known and popular then SIU, that's changing but I read somewhere that Mizzou has a huge political backing besides being so famous.

I disagree...albeit only because SIU used to constantly make Playboy's top ten party universities in the US. More so, it was considered the storehouse of knowledge because you went in with so much and left with so little.
 
CRGsFuture
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:02 pm

Quoting Flyibaby:
I disagree...albeit only because SIU used to constantly make Playboy's top ten party universities in the US. More so, it was considered the storehouse of knowledge because you went in with so much and left with so little.

But the problem is a party school is usually a local thing. Here in NY we have the University of Albany (SUNY) and Oneonta State. Both are Number 1 and Number 3 in the country in partying, but only one as air service and most of the kids that go there are from the State, especially in the case of Oneonta.

Now take a look at both schools, Mizzou was home to Truman, has some of the most prestigious university buildings and has one of the best pre-med (check that for me) programs in the midwest.
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flyibaby
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:04 pm

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 16):
But the problem is a party school is usually a local thing. Here in NY we have the University of Albany (SUNY) and Oneonta State. Both are Number 1 and Number 3 in the country in partying, but only one as air service and most of the kids that go there are from the State, especially in the case of Oneonta.

Now take a look at both schools, Mizzou was home to Truman, has some of the most prestigious university buildings and has one of the best pre-med (check that for me) programs in the midwest

I'm sorry...I wasn't being serious...I was actually poking fun at SIU...I just grew up there!
 
777STL
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:13 pm

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 12):
that's changing but I read somewhere that Mizzou has a huge political backing besides being so famous.

Maybe that's because two of Sam Walton's daughters call Columbia home, aka the billionaire heiresses to the Wal-Mart fortune. Missouri has three, billionaire residents, none of them live in STL and KC, and all of them reside in Columbia.

I believe AA/TS was going to pull Columbia's only remaining flight a while back, but political pressure forced them to shelve that plan. Most of the people I knew when I lived in Columbia drove or took the shuttle to STL or MCI. The single flight really isn't convenient for connections and the time spent parking, getting through security, waiting, flying and finally arriving isn't enough to justify the flight, IMO. Not to mention the cost.

I went to Mizzou and loved it. It has one of the top three journalism schools in the country, a great med program, decent law school etc.
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:23 pm

To answer your question, American Connection (Corporate Airlines) ended service to LAF during my first semester at Purdue (2003). The airport has been trying to get another operator, but so far no airline has stepped up. It would have been more convenient than driving down to IND, but I just couldn't justify paying the astronomical fares for the flight.

Nobody could ever quite make it at LAF; I would always see a line of passengers walking to and from the flights, but I guess it just wasn't enough...United Express and Northwest Airlink tried before American and pulled out as well, but I'm not sure of the dates.
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planespotting
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University To

Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:35 pm

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 5):

So yea, at least in Central Illinois, most small cities with universities have excellent air service.

Yes, but most of those towns (with the possible exception of Bloomington/Normal) would most likely sustain profitable air service without the schools.

[Edited 2006-07-04 07:36:16]
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rampart
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:50 pm

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 5):
Carbondale, IL population unknown to me, is too close to St. Louis to have any air service.

SIU-C has a student population of about 23,000 (sizeable), and Carbondale has a population of about 58,000 in its county . Since Columbia MO was used as a comparison, UM has a student population of about 28,000, with about 144,000 in its county, quite a bit more than Carbondale. Yet, I wouldn't call Carbondale "too close" to St. Louis -- 2.5 hours on the interstates. Like Atrude777 says, Air Illinois used to be based at hometown Southern Illinois Airport, but Marion continues a commuter service (used to have Ozark).
Didn't Columbia attempt to support a reincarnation of Ozark Airlines a few years ago?

Quoting Stirling (Reply 7):
Other college towns in the west.....

Most of these aren't relevant since I wouldn't call them "college towns" in the same way that I'd consider Carbondale.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 7):
Tucson AZ
Tempe AZ

Tucson is a "college town" like Chicago is a "livestock commodities town". C'mon! And Tempe happens to be attached to the 14th largest metro area in the country, not to mention literally next door to the US's 7th busiest airport; I think Skyharbor has other reasons for its success.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 7):
Logan UT
Provo UT

Provo is just 45 miles from SLC, but over 440,000 in its metro population. The 10th fastest growing metro region has more than BYU to justify its growth. I've heard discussion of it's potential for alternate air service to SLC. Logan is a bit farther at 74 miles, but still commutable. 3 separate metropolitan areas, but I'd still consider the Wasatch Front as one continuous commutershed.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 7):
Fort Collins CO
Boulder CO

Ft. Collins, also one of the fastest growing cities in the US, has a metro population over 270,000, so is probably more diverse than "college town", though CSU is one focus for that growth. It's only 62 miles to Denver, but Allegiant Air does business there (Fort Collins had several commuter airlines in its past). Boulder is part of the Denver metro area, and just 35 miles or so from DIA. Boulder is far more diversified than simply a home for CU.


I think Laramie, Las Cruces, Waco, Pullman, Ithaca, and Binghamton would be better comparisons for Lafayette, State College, Iowa City, Cedar Rapids, Bloomington, and Champaign-"Banana". I assumed Essential Air Service allowances were key for most of these, right?

-Rampart
 
planespotting
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:23 pm

Quoting Rampart (Reply 21):

I think Laramie, Las Cruces, Waco, Pullman, Ithaca, and Binghamton would be better comparisons for Lafayette, State College, Iowa City, Cedar Rapids, Bloomington, and Champaign-"Banana". I assumed Essential Air Service allowances were key for most of these, right?

EAS is not relevant to IOW/CID, BMI and CMI. Dunno about the other ones you mentioned (like i said up there...i know midwest airports like the back of my hand) but each of the latter have nearly 150,000 folks within 20 miles of the airport, which is quite a bit larger than EAS would require...

Essential Air Service is for towns like Bemidji, Brainerd, Grand Rapids (all in MN) or Ft. Dodge, Mason City, (in Iowa), etc...
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PurdueAv2003
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:52 pm

Commercial air service did not survive at LAF because of its proximity to IND. I could drive from my apartment at Purdue to IND in just about an hour. Factor in the fact that WN was offering flights from IND for pennies compared to UA, NW, or AA (all express carries during my time at Purdue), and it was a no-brainer. I always regretted the fact that I didn't get the chance to fly commercially out of LAF, even though I flew Lafayette Aviation rentals enough. It is also too bad that the university had to shut down the Purdue Airline during the '70's. It would have been awesome to see a fleet of aircraft that looked like this:


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DTManiac
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:00 pm

College Station (CLL) has 6 daily Continental Connection flights to IAH and I think like 5 more daily American Eagle flights to DFW. I think CLL can be considered as a true college town since most things there wouldnt exist withoiut TAMU. Considering that Bryan/College Station has a population of about 130000 inhabitants the service is quite good and Continentals and AAs No.1 gateways offer you great connections throughout the world.

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Chugach
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:05 pm

Surprised nobody has brought up this one: PUW (Pullman, Washington) with the Washington State campus. Talk about a college town. And QX has flown there successfully for years.

I'll throw out another one, too: FAI. UAF is responsible for bringing a fair amount of traffic into Fairbanks, especially in the winter.
 
sbnair3022
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:06 pm

I knew Purdue had its own Boeing aircraft, but it had its own airline too??
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rampart
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:15 pm

Quoting Chugach (Reply 25):
Surprised nobody has brought up this one: PUW (Pullman, Washington) with the Washington State campus. Talk about a college town. And QX has flown there successfully for years.

I did ask about PUW in my previous post, and you've answered my curiousity, thanks. It would appear, then, that remoteness (e.g.. Pullman, State College) as well as another reason for existence (tourism, other industry) helps those college towns that seem to consistently carry air service. I would have expected College Station to be too close to Houston or Austin to warrant success, or Carbondale to do better, but I'm not an economist...

-Rampart
 
PurdueAv2003
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:30 pm

Quoting SBNair3022 (Reply 26):
I knew Purdue had its own Boeing aircraft, but it had its own airline too??

Back in the late '60's and early '70's, Purdue operated a handful of DC-9's with passenger service. The university decided it was too much of a liability and cancelled the endeavor.

Purdue also used to maintain and operate Hugh Hefner's Playboy DC-9. Purdue students would get the opportunity to fly as FO's on some of the flights. What I wouldn't have given for that chance!!!


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knope2001
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:17 pm

Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think Carbondale has ever been an EAS designated airport, but nearby Marion is. Back in the regulated days, Ozark flew to Marion, not Carbondale. Legacy of that is Marion still gets flights -- with subsidy -- and Carbondale does not.

Regarding Columbia, remember too that it serves Jefferson City so it it has government-based traffic.

On the bigger question of college towns supporting air service...

(1) For cities who don't get subsidy, it's all a matter of the size of the local catchment area and the proemity of airports with better or cheaper service. Put LAF out in central South Dakota and it would have RJ's. But in fact LAF is so close to IND that it is solidy in Indy's hinterland.

(2) For cities needing subsidy, it's largely a matter of the legacy of an EAS program thought up nearly 30 years ago.
 
AlexPorter
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:48 pm

Quoting Chugach (Reply 25):
PUW (Pullman, Washington) with the Washington State campus.

I'm surprised PUW does as well as it does. One of my friends is from Moscow, ID (PUW is Moscow-Pullman Regional) and he always flies out of GEG.

The largest college in the country without heavy air service in its metro area is Florida State, which has GNV. GNV has CO Connection, DL Connection, and I think US Express service and that's it for a city with such a large college. And since it's in Florida I assume there are tons of out-of-state students. I wonder why more airlines don't add special flights around Thanksgiving / Spring Break, college holidays, etc from GNV. I bet flights sell out around then, unless people go all the way to TPA or something.
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Cory6188
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:53 pm

Dartmouth has LEB, one town over from Hanover, with service limited to US Airways Express from LGA. It makes me crazy; the flights would be incredibly convenient for getting back and forth between where I live in NJ and Dartmouth, but they charge insane fares (>$500 roundtrip). I wonder how US is able to stay there, as I can't think of anyone in their right minds that would pay that much to go to LEB when MHT, with WN, is only an hour away. And the service is no longer a recipient of SCASD grants, so clearly, US is able to pull a profit somehow...
 
toltommy
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:01 pm

A lot of the towns mentioned here are not pure college towns. Most have other businesses as well to support the service. For example, BMI is also the home of State Farm Insurance, one of, if not the largest property insurance company in the country.
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irobertson
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:10 pm

London Ontario is about half university town half industrial park. Between the University of Western Ontario and factories like GE/EMD and General Dynamics, YXU is doing fairly well and slowly opening up to more markets. I know alot of the faculty and visiting faculty and staff usually fly right into London. The prices are still far too expensive to make student travel practical.
 
cptspeaking
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:25 pm

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 32):
A lot of the towns mentioned here are not pure college towns. Most have other businesses as well to support the service. For example, BMI is also the home of State Farm Insurance, one of, if not the largest property insurance company in the country.

Exactly. LYH really isn't too much of a college town, although there are 4 small-mid sized school within 20 minutes of the airport. (Liberty University (thats me...) - <2mi., Lynchburg College - ~10mi., Sweet Briar College, Randolph Macon)

During breaks and such, the several-times-daily EV CRJs to ATL are mostly college students, as are the several-times daily US (Piedmont) Dash-8s. During the school year and the summer, the flights are still relatively full, which has always surprised me. I have a difficult time figuring out why so many people from Lynchburg, VA are flying around the country every day. There was also a rumor for a while that 9L was going to put a B1900 base in LYH, but I'm not sure how much truth there was to that...

It may not be airline traffic, but LYH also supports a large amount of bizjet and military traffic. The local FBO has a contract with the military for fuel, so we get lots of blackhawks and OH-58s in for gas. A lot of the bizjet traffic is for the local nuclear companies. Some come from other places, but a lot of the traffic originates from LYH and Falwell Aviation, the local 135 charter. No, this isn't the same Falwell as Jerry...it's his cousin Lawrence. Among the fleet that is out almost every day is a C501, C550, C560, and C650(that is out ALL the time!!). The King Air C90 and C414 don't go out near as often, but are still available.

Enjoy!!!!
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USPIT10L
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:27 pm

Quoting Jcavinato (Reply 4):
Not sure about DL since they started right after we moved in 1999.

Comair actually started service in 2003.

Quoting Mainliner (Reply 19):
United Express and Northwest Airlink tried before American and pulled out as well, but I'm not sure of the dates.

UA pulled out in 1999 and NW did in 2000, IIRC.

I'm surprised no one mention Morgantown, WV (MGW), which is now subsidized service with US Airways Express/Air Midwest B1900Ds. Back in the '80s, Aeromech provided all the lift from MGW to PIT and DCA. Then NY Air Commuter, TWA, and UA provided PIT-MGW, or PIT-DCA service to complement USAir Express/Allegheny Commuter/US Airways Express. By 1991, it ws all USAir/US Airways, and has been ever since. Hopefully, RegionsAir can get that new service to CLE off the ground soon, it's still a nice upgrade to a Saab from a Beechcraft.
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atrude777
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University To

Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:33 pm

As I mentioned earlier MWA received a grant to start Chicago Service.

www.wilcoairport.com

taken from website--

Located in the heart of Southern Illinois, Williamson County Regional Airport is the region's sole primary commercial service airport providing daily flights to and from St. Louis.
The Airport has also partnered with the Decatur and Quincy airports and has received funding from the State of Illinois to establish air service to Chicago-Midway airport. Chicago air service is expected to begin by the end of the year!
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BatonOps
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:59 pm

Ithaca, NY (ITH) is a good college town. Home to Cornell University and Ithaca College. The airport has service to PHL on US (CRJ's and Dash 8's) LGA on US (Saab 340) and DTW on NW (Saab 340)

It took a long time to get NW to start flying to DTW and it has been very successful. Maybe soon NW will replace one or both of the Saab's with a CRJ.

I miss the days of the Empire F-28's and Allegheny/USAir BAC 1-11's...the good old days.
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:28 am

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 20):
Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 5):

So yea, at least in Central Illinois, most small cities with universities have excellent air service.

Yes, but most of those towns (with the possible exception of Bloomington/Normal) would most likely sustain profitable air service without the schools.

Perhaps Bloomington which is home to State Farm Insurance, and Peoria which has a pretty decent economy. As for BMI and CMI, i don't think they would be profitable markets without the schools.

I think, anyway.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
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beau222
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:31 am

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 31):
The largest college in the country without heavy air service in its metro area is Florida State, which has GNV.

Actually Gainesville is the University of Florida.. Small difference there.
We use to have several daily flights in the early 90's that were jet service 737 727 MD88's couple times we had a few 757's for the Gators leaving on charters. but alot of the day was commuters Comair Metro's, Bandarantes (sp) and ASA Brasilias. US Air would have 737's and F100's and evernow and then what looked like an ex branif 727 burgundy with not lettering on it.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:53 am

Quoting Rampart (Reply 21):
Quoting Stirling (Reply 7):
Logan UT
Provo UT

Provo is just 45 miles from SLC, but over 440,000 in its metro population. The 10th fastest growing metro region has more than BYU to justify its growth. I've heard discussion of it's potential for alternate air service to SLC. Logan is a bit farther at 74 miles, but still commutable. 3 separate metropolitan areas, but I'd still consider the Wasatch Front as one continuous commutershed.

Having grown up most of my life in and around the environs or Provo and Orem (Orem High--1978, BYU--1985), there is clearly a market here for air service. Even when you include Provo/Orem and Ogden/Layton in the Salt Lake City metro area, you're dealing with right around 2 million people now, and with close to half a million people, Utah County can count on more than just Brigham Young University (BYU) and Utah Valley State College (UVSC) to justify air service. Attached to BYU also is the LDS Church's main Missionary Training Center (MTC) which funnels out and in each week 1,000-1,500 missionaries for the Mormon Church. This operation provides both basic and language training for nearly 60,000 missionaries deployed throughout the world. But being 45-50 miles from SLC International is what makes starting service here much more viable than what many people think.
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CV580Freak
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:55 am

Alpha One between Oxford and Cambridge springs to mind as a no-starter Sad

I would think that here in UK, bearing in mind the huge debt burden, that most Uni students hitch-hike rather than gaining a gold Amex card from good old Mom and Dad .....
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
piercey
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:35 am

How about 2 good college towns, SBN (GO IRISH!!!) and CMH (DOWN WITH THE BUCKEYES!!!)
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
 
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snn2003
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University To

Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:50 am

DBQ has ERj service from American, We had NW untill two years ago. AE Keeps adding flights, were up to five daily flights to ORD.
On behalf of your entire Boston based crew, thanks for flying with us today.
 
kith
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:51 am

ITH is a funny market though. The amount of leakage to other airports (SYR) who have B6 is rediculous. The enplanements at ITH would be at least 50k more without SYR one hour away on a major interstate. ELM doesnt' have this issue and thus can support CO connection to CLE (token presence) and CRJ's to DTW. Though XJ is doing well and so is US to LGA/PHL, I miss the days off 4x DC-9's to PIT!
US used to bring in a 737-400 into ITH for large Cornell weekends but now its soley Dash 8/CRJ to PHL and the usual US screwing to LGA for $500/each no matter when the ticket is booked on the Colgan Saab 340. -Matt in KITH
 
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Stitch
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:57 am

Considering what US always wants to charge me for ITH, they must be doing well.  Smile

I usually fly UA into BGM or SYR and save a few hundred.
 
CO738
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:29 am

Boston... take away the finance district, with over 30 colleges in and around the city average maybe 20,000 per campus over 600,000 students nearly half of which live out of state and half of that live out of countrythats over 150,000 international tickets. My roommate was from Mauritious (sorry for the people of the island i was never a good speller). I used to fly home even though it was only a 16 minute flight back to EWR and when you gather your bags from the baggage areas you meet alot of students from other schools coming back from their home country
If only you could install an air horn on a plane...
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:35 am

If the population of the town is dominated by the university people, in one word NO. It is such a popular thing in Montreal to fly out BTV (this is a good 2 hr drive, with border crossing) to save a few hundred bucks. And people don't even drive there, they take the bus and a cab from the bus station to the airport...
With the amazing service we have out of YUL, one needs to really have time and be short of money to do so... But that's what so many students do.

So I would bet that students in, let's say, College Station TX will easily drive to Houston to jump on a Southwest flight...
When I doubt... go running!
 
planespotting
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:55 am

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 47):

So I would bet that students in, let's say, College Station TX will easily drive to Houston to jump on a Southwest flight...

2 hour drives are extremely inconvenient, however...especially when returning from a trip and knowing you have to drive another 2 hours before you're actually home...
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Can Airline Service Succeed In A University Town?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:30 am

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 48):
2 hour drives are extremely inconvenient, however...especially when returning from a trip and knowing you have to drive another 2 hours before you're actually home...

People in Canada are used to such drives, especially when it involves trans-border flying between the US and Canada. The fees at Canada's airports are outrageous to say the least, hence when the Canuck's decide to head south to Florida for some time in the sun in Fort Lauderdale, Boca Raton or Palm Beach, it is nothing for them to drive 2+ hours to a US airport and typically knock 30-40% off the price of a flight.
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