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planemanofnz
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'Airline Of Northern Ireland' - BE Or EZY?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:24 pm

G'day,

Seen as Northern Ireland does not really have a national carrier, unless you count BA/BD/VS for the United Kingdom, I was just wondering who is the closest to being able to say that they are the 'Airline of Northern Ireland?' I know EZY mainly focusses on continental european flights and BE operates main UK routes but who has the most flights per day out of Northern Ireland? Also, who is the airline that is most recognised in Northern Ireland? I take it that BA and BD need not be in this thread? Correct me if I am wrong.

Colin

[Edited 2006-07-04 06:26:30]
 
COSPN
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RE: 'Airline Of Northern Ireland' - BE Or EZY?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:33 pm

CO...BFS-EWR.... Smile..............................................................................
 
planemanofnz
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RE: 'Airline Of Northern Ireland' - BE Or EZY?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:39 pm

Quoting COSPN (Reply 1):
CO...BFS-EWR

They aren't even close to being the carrier for Northern Ireland. I don't even think they dominate long-haul, Zoom Airlines does that.
 
dogfighter2111
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RE: 'Airline Of Northern Ireland' - BE Or EZY?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:13 pm

Well, EZY have most flights out of BFS. So i would say they came close and it's about 19 flights for EZY.

Thanks
Mike
 
BDKLEZ
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RE: 'Airline Of Northern Ireland' - BE Or EZY?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:03 pm

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 3):
So i would say they came close and it's about 19 flights for EZY

Just a little off the mark there. You'll find that EZY operate approximately 80 (eighty) sectors through BFS on a typical midweek day. There are 5 NG's based in BFS and the above total also includes sectors operated by aircraft and crew based elsewhere. Destinations served from BFS are LTN, STN, LGW, INV, GLA, EDI, NCL, LPL, BRS, AMS, SXF, GVA, CDG, NCE, CIA, PMI, ALC, AGP, FAO.

 wave 
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dogfighter2111
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RE: 'Airline Of Northern Ireland' - BE Or EZY?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:04 pm

Quoting BDKLEZ (Reply 4):

Heya,

Sorry, i meant 19 destinations.

Thanks
Mike
 
7LBAC111
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RE: 'Airline Of Northern Ireland' - BE Or EZY?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:12 pm

Well we did have our own little airline - Air Belfast (7L)
But we went tits up pretty early on.


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I think BE hold that status. In fact I'm sure they advertise themselves as 'The Airline for Northern Ireland' in local press etc, and in billboards around BHD permimeter.

7L
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: 'Airline Of Northern Ireland' - BE Or EZY?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:17 pm

I's go with EZY too. BA only serve BHX and MAN, iirc.

BE serve ABZ BHX EXT BRS GWY BRS DSA GLA EDI LPL GCI JER MAN LBA NCL LGW SOU and EWR(recon that's opd by CO though!)
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
 
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shamrock350
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RE: 'Airline Of Northern Ireland' - BE Or EZY?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:48 am

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 6):
Well we did have our own little airline - Air Belfast (7L)

I remember flying them when I was very young! They were not that bad an airline but I was very young and had only ever been on Aer Lingus.
 
BFS
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RE: 'Airline Of Northern Ireland' - BE Or EZY?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:26 am

It's neither. That honour clearly goes to

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In all seriousness though, I would have to say easyJet. True, flybe (in their many former guises) have been around much longer, but nevertheless, talk to anyone in the province about air travel and chances are they will immediately think easyJet.

All I can say is thank God we aren't dependant on Ryanair!
 
planemanofnz
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RE: 'Airline Of Northern Ireland' - BE Or EZY?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:41 am

So if EZY have the most flights then would BFS be more busy than BHD?

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 6):
Well we did have our own little airline - Air Belfast (7L)
But we went tits up pretty early on.

Wow thats cool! Any chance that there could be a revival of this airline in/for Northern Ireland? What routes did this airline fly?

Quoting BFS" class=quote target=_blank>BFS (Reply 9):
All I can say is thank God we aren't dependant on Ryanair!

But surely people living in the 2nd biggest Northern Irish city of Derry would rely on Ryanair more than EZY?
 
yulguy
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RE: 'Airline Of Northern Ireland' - BE Or EZY?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:45 am

I remember as a kid, visiting Belfast (the city of my birth, by the way) in the mid-80s and seeing the BA 757s which served the LHR-Belfast route. It's interesting that BA just picked up and pretty much left this lucrative route to BMI (although BMI serves the City Airport instead of Aldergrove). What's the BA pullout story? I guess it was a concerted effort on their part to concentrate on international routes?
"Celui qui diffère de moi, loin de me léser, m'enrichit." - Saint-Exupéry
 
BDKLEZ
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RE: 'Airline Of Northern Ireland' - BE Or EZY?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:53 pm

Quoting Yulguy (Reply 11):
What's the BA pullout story?

Officially, and this is a very touchy subject, it was as a direct result of needing to make drastic cutbacks in the light of the events of Sept. 11th. Unofficially, it's a very exepensive service to operate, and this is where the analytical skill of the Yield Managers comes into play. BA had been making a loss on the route for quite some time, but was unwilling to pull out through political reasons.

We all know about the "troubles" in Northern Ireland and the extra security measures, and increased insurance premiums in place between the two was also adding unfortunate but necessary costs to the operation. However, at the end of the day, Northern Ireland is as much a part of the UK as England, Scotland or Wales. Some people will disagree with that statement, but these are the current political facts. Belfast is, as you know, the capital of Northern Ireland. Now for BA to pull out of operating to the capital of one of the countries of the UK without "valid reason" would've been very damaging for the company. Unlike, CWL & EDI one cannot avail of a road or rail service to BFS because of that little bit of water called the Irish Sea.

Sept. 11th gave them that excuse, and who can argue with them about it? Airlines around the world were folding almost immediately after the attacks. I appreciate that BA is a business, however the people of NI were lied to when they pulled out of BFS, when BA based their decision on Sept. 11th alone. They did not publically disclose that they were wanting to shut the route for quite some time and that it had been consistently loss-making for them also for some time.

I know of many businesses who have make cutbacks etc after 9/11 as I'm sure most of us do; I for one also lost my job at time, the reasons given being 9/11, although that clearly was not the case.

Pretty bad show on the part of BA, and I don't think they'll be welcomed with open arms if they ever start up on the route again. I know of some of our fellow a.netters who are of a similar opinion, and from a personal opinion only, they can stay away. The folks of NI neither want them nor need them. After all, we've got BD, BE, U2 & WW, all looking after us pretty well these days.
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planemanofnz
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RE: 'Airline Of Northern Ireland' - BE Or EZY?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:53 pm

Quoting BDKLEZ (Reply 12):
BA had been making a loss on the route for quite some time, but was unwilling to pull out through political reasons.

I take it then, that BD are not making a loss on the route seen as they still operate it? How were BD able to survive on the route and BA not to? After all BA had much better long-haul connections....
 
BDKLEZ
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RE: 'Airline Of Northern Ireland' - BE Or EZY?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:03 pm

Because BD spent many years in competition with BA and had built up a much superior product because they had to as a result of that competition. They were winning passengers from BA all the time and as such BD earned the loyalty of the customer over the years. BA had become rather bored almost, and seemed to lose interest and when they were given the opportunity to pull out, they took it.
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
 
7LBAC111
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RE: 'Airline Of Northern Ireland' - BE Or EZY?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:09 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 10):
Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 6):
Well we did have our own little airline - Air Belfast (7L)
But we went tits up pretty early on.

Wow thats cool! Any chance that there could be a revival of this airline in/for Northern Ireland? What routes did this airline fly?

Not a great deal. We flex our little fleet of random European 1-11's between:

BFS-STN
BFS-LGW
SNN-LGW - as AB Airlines
SNN-BHX - as AB Airlines
LGW-NCE - as AB Airlines
LGW-SXF - as AB Airlines

As you can see not a great deal from Northern Ireland. The business kind of morphed into AB Airlines from SNN and LGW, but we all went tits up shortly after Debonair.

As for the airline starting again, I'd say no hope. Though IIRC Tony Auld who was Air Belfasts Managing Director, is now something to do with Channel Express, trading as Jet2. And they are foraying into the NI market themselves.

7L
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
yulguy
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RE: 'Airline Of Northern Ireland' - BE Or EZY?

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:37 pm

Thanks BDKLEZ for the insight into the BA pullout of NI. Do you know when Dan-Air ceased to exist and thus stop serving the Belfast-LHR route? Do you think that one reason for BD's success is that they're operating out of City Airport as opposed to the other? I assume, given the current relative calm in Northern Ireland, that security concerns are not as prominent.
"Celui qui diffère de moi, loin de me léser, m'enrichit." - Saint-Exupéry
 
JobsaGoodun
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RE: 'Airline Of Northern Ireland' - BE Or EZY?

Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:17 pm

It is my understanding that BA pulled out based on yield analysis that wasn't what it should have been. This is not to say that the route was loss making, rather that BA were managing the yield at odds with the routes actual performance.

This route was used, as are many LHR routes, to connect onto further services. I remember reading at the time of BA's pullout of BFS that they were not allocating yield from these connecting pax effectively in order to record a better profit on its long haul services.

(eg) BFS-LHR-JFK flight @£600 rtn
this saw BA allocate £2 revenue to the BA connecting service ex BFS with the remaining £598 alocated to LHRJFK.

Whether this is true or not I don't know. It is possible that it offered the mechanism for BA to declare their BFS service unprofitable. I'm sure that someone at BA knows, I just remember something like this coming up and providing the excuse to withdraw from LHR and use the slots on the more 'lucrative' long haul markets.

Cheers, Jobs

[Edited 2006-07-06 10:18:24]

[Edited 2006-07-06 10:19:32]
 
planemanofnz
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RE: 'Airline Of Northern Ireland' - BE Or EZY?

Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:26 pm

Slightly off topic (but hey I started the thread so why not!) - Just wondering why KLM UK/Cityhopper has never flown to Belfast. Do they still fly to Aberdeen/Edinburgh/Glasgow e.t.c? The Fokker seems like the best type of aircraft for the route and it would be great to have all of those connections to long-haul flights around the world - especially for me down here in New Zealand, it would mean I would not have to keep flying EI to DUB!
 
7LBAC111
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RE: 'Airline Of Northern Ireland' - BE Or EZY?

Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:29 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 18):
wondering why KLM UK/Cityhopper has never flown to Belfast

They did, they pulled out around 96/97 I think.
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
BDKLEZ
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RE: 'Airline Of Northern Ireland' - BE Or EZY?

Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:40 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 18):
Just wondering why KLM UK/Cityhopper has never flown to Belfast. Do they still fly to Aberdeen/Edinburgh/Glasgow e.t.c?

They did once a number of years ago in about '98-'99, but the service didn't even last a year I don't think. IIRC, I believe that they had trouble arranging appropriate slots at AMS in order that they could take advantage of the business traffic. As a result, a low load and a poor yield was all they saw.

I worked for KLC once and campaigned for it's reintroduction when the time was right. Over the last number of years Northern Ireland air traffic has boomed, but there is still only very limited access to long-haul. We could count BE/CO and BD/Star codeshare agreements but CO only offers limited onward connections from the UK regions that will require a further change in EWR. Star Alliance will mean by default an LHR transit, which many will avoid like the plague.

Since the AF/KL merger, KL has inherited a new lease of life regarding revised strategies and business planning. Perhaps a thrice daily midweek service could be on the cards timed to connect with KL's "waves" at AMS. Let U2/WW/LS keep their point-to point traffic, it wouldn't affect a KL move to reinstate a service via AMS, and with the KLM uk/KLM cityhopper merger, the F70 could be used where demand may not be sufficient enough to operate the larger F100.

  

[Edited 2006-07-06 13:50:37]
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vfw614
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RE: 'Airline Of Northern Ireland' - BE Or EZY?

Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:08 pm

IIRC correctly, BD for a while operated from BFS and BHD simultanously before they concentrated on BHD after the BA pull-out.

As for KL, if memory serves it was only a single daily flight, different from what they offer from places such as CWL, NCL or NWI which are decently integrated into the AMS hub.


Given the relative lack of direct access to a long-haul hub, what is the preferred travel option for people from N.I. ? Tiring two stop Star Alliance connections with BD via LHR and FRA, gambling with LCC feed to Skyblue places like AMS or CDG, changing airports in London to access Oneworld at LHR or travelling from DUB on any ofthe alliances rather than taking off from BFS/BHD ?
 
BDKLEZ
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RE: 'Airline Of Northern Ireland' - BE Or EZY?

Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:38 pm

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 21):
BD for a while operated from BFS and BHD simultanously before they concentrated on BHD after the BA pull-out.

That's correct. BD initially moved their operation to BHD prior to tre BA pull-out after Sep. 11th. This was as a result of a disagreement between the airline and the airport authority. I believe it was as a result of alleged capping of charges for the benefit of easyJet. That same charge cap not being applied to other operators at the airport, apparently.

After the BA pull-out, BD then reinstated a service to BFS to fill the void in the interim period. At one time BD operated 7x daily to BHD and 4x daily to BFS.

Here's a couple of BD press releases about the very subject.

http://www.flybmi.com/bmi/en-gb/abou...ressreleases.aspx?year=2001&rid=43

http://www.flybmi.com/bmi/en-gb/abou...ressreleases.aspx?year=2001&rid=73

http://www.flybmi.com/bmi/en-gb/abou...ressreleases.aspx?year=2001&rid=87

The parallel BHD/BFS operation only lasted about 6months IIRC.
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
 
legoguy
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RE: 'Airline Of Northern Ireland' - BE Or EZY?

Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:50 pm

Ahhh brilliant. Finally the place where I live is mentioned in a thread!!!!!

Flybe is probably the most popular in Belfast City Airport with their Dash 8-400's and 146's, however there are now Air Berlin aircraft now flying in to there...I think they're code sharing with someone. British Airways used to be popular here usually flying with BAe ATP's and Dash 8's however these days, its just the Dash 8's

Easyjet is probably the most popular in Belfast International Airport. BMI baby is quite popular aswell however I would have to say Easyjet is the main airline. It's nice to see the odd Russian charter comming induring the summer, however I have yet to see one. Doh!

Nice thread Big grin
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dstc47
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RE: 'Airline Of Northern Ireland' - BE Or EZY?

Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:21 am

KLM Cityhopper flew to Belfast from AMS for a number of years in the early 1980's.
 
AirNZ
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RE: 'Airline Of Northern Ireland' - BE Or EZY?

Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:47 am

Quoting Yulguy (Reply 16):
Thanks BDKLEZ for the insight into the BA pullout of NI. Do you know when Dan-Air ceased to exist and thus stop serving the Belfast-LHR route? Do you think that one reason for BD's success is that they're operating out of City Airport as opposed to the other? I assume, given the current relative calm in Northern Ireland, that security concerns are not as prominent.

Actually, Dan-Air never flew BFS-LHR.....it was BFS-LGW, and quite a poplular service. IMO the success of BD is not related to either BHD or BFS, but more that they are the only airline who operate to LHR. That notwithstanding, and as BDKLEZ pointed out, BD were always the preferred carrier on the BFS-LHR route as they offered a vastly superior service to BA (the old Diamond Class). Probably one of the factors of BA's 'non-profitablity (actually it was highly prifitable but not high-yielding) was that they used the B757, and which was really too much aircraft for a two-hourly shuttle service.....wheras BD itinially used the DC9 before the A320/321. Essestially, as already pointed out, BA sought to drop the route for many years as part of their 'withdrawal' from serving the regions to concentrate on their moniker of 'London Airways'.
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boeingguy1
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RE: 'Airline Of Northern Ireland' - BE Or EZY?

Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:52 am

Sorry, but is there that great of a demand for travel from Belfast to generate the start of an airline a la Air Belfast? (again, sorry... I dont dabble into Protestant affairs  Silly )
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7LBAC111
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RE: 'Airline Of Northern Ireland' - BE Or EZY?

Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:07 pm

Quoting Boeingguy1 (Reply 26):
Sorry, but is there that great of a demand for travel from Belfast to generate the start of an airline a la Air Belfast?

Not now, no. That demand is pretty much met with the existing carriers serving NI, and any startup would face fierce competition from BE, U2, WW and LS.

7L
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.

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