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RobK
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Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:21 am

AIC161 arrived at Boeing Field at 2000 local on 3 July from Gatwick, type B744. Reg and reason for flight, anyone?

Later flew Boeing Field to Everett in the morning of 4 July, same callsign.

Only one I can think of is perhaps VT-EVJ going to Precision Conversions to become B744F before entering service with Korean Cargo as HL7606... maybe?

 confused 

R
 
Nimish
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:28 am

There was a media article that AI wanted the ill-fated VT-AIM to be sent to Boeing for "re-certification" before being accepted back in active service.

The spate of landing gear incidents on that aircraft had prompted AI to see such a re-certification.

Could it be VT-AIM?
Incredible India!
 
Tod
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:46 am

Quoting RobK (Thread starter):
going to Precision Conversions to become B744F

Precision has done a few 757 conversions at Tramco, but have they done any 747?

Tod
 
himmat01
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:38 pm

Quoting RobK (Thread starter):
Only one I can think of is perhaps VT-EVJ going to Precision Conversions to become B744F before entering service with Korean Cargo as HL7606... maybe?

VT-EVJ has already been converted and is now in full Korean Air Cargo Colors. The a/c in Gatwick probably is VT-AIM which is being sent to Boeing for recertification.
An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
 
lotsamiles
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Thu Jul 06, 2006 4:16 pm

Quoting Tod (Reply 2):
but have they done any 747

No, and no plans for it either. Likely just a reference to the Paine field location.

Quoting Himmat01 (Reply 3):
which is being sent to Boeing for recertification

Can someone please explain the concept of recertification? I understand certification to be a process at the FAA or other airworthiness authority for approval of a new aircraft of a modification to an aircraft.

If AI wants Boeing to have a look then I would think that Boeing would send a team to meet the aircraft at one of its normal bases. Anyone have details on the scope of work?

Regards,
Lotsamiles
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:14 pm

I wonder if it was VT-AIM.Although I feel the Problem is with the MLG & not the Aircraft,& not warranting a Recertification from Boeing.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Nimish
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Mond

Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:35 pm

Quoting Lotsamiles (Reply 4):
Can someone please explain the concept of recertification?

1. Start with a government run airline
2. Add in a series of incidents to a particular aircraft
3. Sufficient customer sensitivity on the issue
4. Decision to "make sure the aircraft is right" before using it again
5. Maintenance can't make out anything wrong, but don't want to be seen as the ones who "gave the wrong recommendation" if things go wrong
6. Set up a "high powered committee" comprising - AI officials, engineers, technicians and also Boeing officials - to "look into the "issue"
7. The said "high powered committee" meets over chai and samosas and decides they can't really take the call. Hence the collective CYA decision is to

Send it to Boeing for re-certification!!

After all if even Boeing can't make out what's wrong, then no one can.

Happy ending all around  sarcastic  Big grin
Incredible India!
 
justplanesmart
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:42 pm

VT-AIM was parked at Boeing Field on Tuesday morning and was still there Tuesday evening and Wednesday morning, so clearly this was the aircraft in question.
"So many planes; so little time..."
 
Nimish
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:52 pm

Quoting Justplanesmart (Reply 7):
VT-AIM was parked at Boeing Field on Tuesday morning and was still there Tuesday evening and Wednesday morning, so clearly this was the aircraft in question.

Brilliant - thanks! Mystery solved. Now over to Boeing to solve the mystery on why VT-AIM has issues with it's landing gear.
Incredible India!
 
spottingpete93
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:57 pm

Yes I can confirm it was VT-AIM at LGW on Monday evening - I was stood at the crash gate getting a photo of it!!!

It departed LGW at around 1900 Local time.
 
jaysit
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:00 pm

So how does this affect their operations with 2 744s effectively gone?
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:00 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 6):

 bigthumbsup 

Amazing why a Boeing Certification for a MLG related Issue.  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
lotsamiles
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:02 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 6):
Hence the collective CYA decision is to

Send it to Boeing for re-certification!!

Thanks Nimish. I guess in this context it is more of a political / marketing term rather than an actual technical process.

Regards,
Lotsamiles
 
cricket
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:13 am

The crisi with VT-AIM is quite obvious - AI issued a tender for a 744 Combi and just at that time AC wanted to get rid of their underperforming 747-433M's and voila AI got them. And VT-AIM has been jinxed ever since. Happens when you operate just one of a type. But this is AI we're talking about, these things happen.
been there, flown that
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:33 am

.. and I beleive it was ferried on to Everett yesterday. I noticed an AI landing there on Flytecomm. Unfortunatly it has expired ..
- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:41 am

Any Idea How long will the Entire Recertification Process take.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:06 am

Was the aircraft flown empty or did it carry any pax / cargo upto London....?
 
777MechSys
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:15 am

The aircraft is currently at Paine Field sitting on Boeings flight line. It is on jack stands and being worked on. It arrived here yesterday around 9:30 am local time. I was wondering why she was here.

-Erick
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:15 am

Quoting 777MechSys (Reply 17):
It is on jack stands and being worked on

Fuselage Jacks.....The MLG is being Tackled.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
777MechSys
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:01 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 18):
Fuselage Jacks

Yeah! Sorry for the offense and great confusion I caused. Fuselage Jacks...  sarcastic 
 
Nimish
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:24 pm

Quoting 777MechSys (Reply 19):
Yeah! Sorry for the offense and great confusion I caused

Oh don't worry - you didn't cause any at all Big grin

Let us know if there any progress on the aircraft, or any corridor talk on what's going on.
Incredible India!
 
777MechSys
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:28 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 20):
Let us know if there any progress on the aircraft, or any corridor talk on what's going on.

This has been a surprise for us. I work in "mechanical systems hydraulics" group for 777/767/747 and we have heard nothing about this. We are usually the first ones called on any and all hydraulic issues. We are constantly answering AOG (aircraft on ground) and customer service questions.

I'll keep an ear out.
 listen 

-Erick
 
karan69
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:53 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 10):
So how does this affect their operations with 2 744s effectively gone?

The other aircraft you are refferring to is the KE one right--

They have transffered the 772 on the BOM-AMD-LHR runs as AI 120/121---more 310s are being sent to Jeddah and Riyadh and those are being replaced by 737-800s of AIX on routes like BOM-PNQ-DXB

Also the 3x weekly non-stops to NRT are being operated by the 743s

So currently the 744s are used on
2x 744 on BOM-DEL-LHR-JFK
2x 744 on BOM-CDG-EWR
2x 744 on BOM-FRA-LAX
1x 744 on BOM-FRA-ORD
1x 744 on BOM-DEL-LHR-ORD
1x 744 sector is kept as spare and is often used on routes like JED and RUH and when need calls to operate the "emergency situation" also the 3x weekly BOM-LHR terminators.


Karan
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:24 pm

Quoting 777MechSys (Reply 19):
Sorry for the offense and great confusion I caused.

Its no big issue.Relax  Smile

Quoting 777MechSys (Reply 21):
We are usually the first ones called on any and all hydraulic issues.

What about Landing Gear,Does it come under your Dept.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
spottingpete93
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:17 pm

VT-AIM is now scheduled to route back through LGW on Sunday 9th July arriving 0815 British Summer time and departing again at 0945 British Summer time to BOM.

Does this mean that whatever was wrong is now sorted?!?
 
Nimish
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:48 pm

Quoting Spottingpete93 (Reply 24):
VT-AIM is now scheduled to route back through LGW on Sunday 9th July arriving 0815 British Summer time and departing again at 0945 British Summer time to BOM.

Either it's all sorted out or Boeing have refused to "recertify" the a/c  Smile Assuming VT-AIM does leave on 8/July (tomorrow), that would be bloody quick!
Incredible India!
 
spottingpete93
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:52 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 25):
Either it's all sorted out or Boeing have refused to "recertify" the a/c Assuming VT-AIM does leave on 8/July (tomorrow), that would be bloody quick!

I would have to agree, but AI160 does have slots at LGW at this moment in time for Sunday so I hope they operate them!!!
 
himmat01
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:30 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 25):
Either it's all sorted out or Boeing have refused to "recertify" the a/c Smile Assuming VT-AIM does leave on 8/July (tomorrow), that would be bloody quick!

They better 'recertify' it. They want to keep AI in good humor.
An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:07 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 25):

Either it's all sorted out or Boeing have refused to "recertify" the a/c Assuming VT-AIM does leave on 8/July (tomorrow), that would be bloody quick!

I guess they just checked the MLGs.  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Tod
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:13 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 28):
I guess they just checked the MLGs

Unless the AOG teams are too busy, that would be an expensive way of doing it.

Sure wish customers would bring their planes to me, instead of me going to the plane  Smile

Tod
 
777MechSys
Posts: 336
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:18 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 23):
What about Landing Gear,Does it come under your Dept

Landing gear structures does not. The hydraulic systems that are responsible for extending and retracting the gear are our responsibility. Anything and everything hydraulic on all Boeing wide bodies falls in our department.

-Erick
 
Nimish
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:40 pm

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 16):
Was the aircraft flown empty or did it carry any pax / cargo upto London....?

Most likely empty given that:

* AI does not trust this a/c as yet
* They don't have regular service to LGW, so they can't leave their pax fretting at LGW.
Incredible India!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:23 pm

Quoting 777MechSys (Reply 30):
Landing gear structures does not

Any news on what checks were done on the MLGs.
Did they focus on the Brake Flanges.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
777MechSys
Posts: 336
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:51 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 32):
Any news

Well... Looks like they are still doing gear retract tests. She is still up in the air on fuselage jacks  Wink . I can't get ahold of my buddies on the flightline.
 
777MechSys
Posts: 336
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:24 am

Looks like everything is done and good to go. Scheduled to leave here tomorrow at 1500 local.

-Erick
 
himmat01
Posts: 1033
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:34 pm

RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:21 pm

Here is picture of VT-AIM at PAE.

An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:27 am

Quoting 777MechSys (Reply 34):
Scheduled to leave here tomorrow at 1500 local.

Great News.
Any Unscheduled Mx.Was the Wheels & Brakes removed for MLG Inspection.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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RobK
Topic Author
Posts: 3717
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:50 am

Quoting 777MechSys (Reply 34):
Looks like everything is done and good to go. Scheduled to leave here tomorrow at 1500 local.

Yes I can confirm a flight plan is in the system to leave at 2200z tonight (1500 local) back to Gatwick as AIC160.

 spin 

R
 
777MechSys
Posts: 336
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Sun Jul 09, 2006 9:12 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 36):
Wheels & Brakes removed for MLG Inspection.

I can't say for sure... I never saw them off the airplane. Then again I sit at a desk and take a look through our flightline webcam to see what was going on. From what I have heard the problems they were looking for was specific to braking. Gear retract and extension was tested but they were troubleshooting the brakes.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air India B744 Gatwick To Boeing Field On Monday?

Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:09 pm

The Brake mounting bolts shearing out from the Brake Flange Attachment was one Issue.Can you talk to some collegue on the line.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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