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Flyer88
Topic Author
Posts: 84
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Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:57 pm

Was thinking if there is any city pairs that can work and make a profit for an airline but has no service and EZE and AMS came to mind. There is no direct service between the two. Also SCL and LHR. Would these sectors work?
Any other pairs that you can think of.......

SYD / DFW up coming
AKL / ORD link to the east coast
DFW / BOM or DEL
YVR / BOM or DEL large Indian population
 
Christa
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:14 pm

CWL-CDG = That route can make profit and was served from CWL. AF and TOM are looking at the route.
Croeso i Faes Awyr Rhyngwladol Caerdydd - Welcome to Cardiff International Airport
 
COSPN
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:20 pm

GUM-LAX or SFO... TLV-DXB... CEB-GUM.....
 
ehho
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:25 pm

I think either SVO-BOS or DME-BOS would make a lot of sense.
"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
 
mainMAN
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:25 pm

Quoting Flyer88 (Thread starter):
Was thinking if there is any city pairs that can work and make a profit for an airline but has no service and EZE and AMS came to mind. There is no direct service between the two. Also SCL and LHR. Would these sectors work?
Any other pairs that you can think of.......

It's nigh on impossible to tell which city pairs would make a profit, as opposed to which would have adequate demand to start a service.

From my own turf....

MAN-LAX-AKL, BKK, HKG, JNB, SFO, DEL, BOM, SYD and MEL
BHX - MCO and ORD
NCL - NYC
LHR - CHC, and as you say LHR - SCL.
LHR - DUR, ADL, BNE and PER

How about CPT - JNB - MEL..?

Many of these have been operated at some time, but have been superceded in terms of profitability by better connections somewhere else along the line.
 
ARGinLON
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:32 pm

Quoting Flyer88 (Thread starter):
Was thinking if there is any city pairs that can work and make a profit for an airline but has no service and EZE and AMS came to mind. There is no direct service between the two. Also SCL and LHR. Would these sectors work?
Any other pairs that you can think of.......

BA used to fly LGW-EZE-SCL (previously from LHR and later moved to LHR again) and was dropped after the financial crisis in Argentina during 2001. I believe BA sends all traffic through MAD as with many other South American routes that have been recently dropped by BA (e.g. CCS). The same with LAN which relies all its UK traffic via MAD as well.

Some BA insiders have said that BA was planning to operate EZE non-stop again but since I don’t work for BA this is just a rumour to me.

EZE-AMS was served for a number of years by KL via GRU. Again, this was dropped in 2001 and KL never came back to the route. KL now codeshares with AF via CDG.
 
Flyer88
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:44 pm

Quoting ARGinLON (Reply 5):
BA used to fly LGW-EZE-SCL (previously from LHR and later moved to LHR again) and was dropped after the financial crisis in Argentina during 2001. I believe BA sends all traffic through MAD as with many other South American routes that have been recently dropped by BA (e.g. CCS). The same with LAN which relies all its UK traffic via MAD as well.

Some BA insiders have said that BA was planning to operate EZE non-stop again but since I don’t work for BA this is just a rumour to me.

EZE-AMS was served for a number of years by KL via GRU. Again, this was dropped in 2001 and KL never came back to the route. KL now codeshares with AF via CDG.

Thanks for this..........I wondered if there was a previous service operated but dropped
 
N1120A
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:50 pm

Quoting Flyer88 (Thread starter):
DFW / BOM or DEL

LAX/SFO-BOM/DEL would be more likely

Quoting COSPN (Reply 2):
GUM-LAX or SFO...

GUM-LAX for sure

Probably one of the most profitable routes that isn't currently served for political reasons is LAX-THR. The route was planned with a 747SP before the revolution in Iran with Iran Air signage being put up in T2 at LAX.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Gemuser
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:22 pm

Quoting Flyer88 (Thread starter):
Any other pairs that you can think of.......

SYD / DFW up coming
AKL / ORD link to the east coast
DFW / BOM or DEL
YVR / BOM or DEL large Indian population

As MainMAN says in reply4, it is basically impossiable for us to tell which city pairs would be profitable. In your list I doubt any of them would be sufficiently profitable to attract service, except for SYD-DFW, which is an odd case as the service would not be for DFW but to connect to Fortress AA. It is not served today because the technology is not yet in QFs hands, but it is appreantly close.

As a generalisation I think you could say that any profitable city pair not served has some other problem such as technological, eg SYD/MEL-LHR & SYD/MEL-DFW or political eg LAX-THR as N1120A referred to in reply 7.

Gemuser
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cornish
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:31 pm

Undoubtedly Taipei to Shanghai, Guangzhou and Beijing must have more demand than anywhere else not currently operated by scheduled services.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
ARGinLON
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:35 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 9):
Undoubtedly Taipei to Shanghai, Guangzhou and Beijing must have more demand than anywhere else not currently operated by scheduled services

I wonder why BA does not operate to Guangzhou
 
Gemuser
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:43 pm

Quoting ARGinLON (Reply 10):
I wonder why BA does not operate to Guangzhou

At a guess, its too close to HKG to make sense. A lot of the economic development zone, which is I presume the main business travel traffic generator is located between Guangzhou and HKG, so a lot of traffic would find HKG just as convient to use.

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
stylo777
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:05 pm

Quoting COSPN (Reply 2):
TLV-DXB

are you serious man? which airline should operate on that route due to the political situation???
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:13 pm

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 12):
are you serious man? which airline should operate on that route due to the political situation???

Emirates. They don't give a f*ck about politics, they fly where they want as long as bilaterals allow it.
 
mainMAN
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:38 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 9):
Undoubtedly Taipei to Shanghai, Guangzhou and Beijing must have more demand than anywhere else not currently operated by scheduled services.

Good one, didn't think of that. Given Taipei's position, it would otherwise have multiple dailies to all sorts of cities....Xi'an, Nanjing, Wuhan etc

Here's a few created by lack of capacity at LHR......Birmingham, Liverpool, Dundee, Blackpool, Exeter, Plymouth, Jersey, Guernsey, Londonderry and anywhere else you can think of with as little as a grass strip.
 
soups
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:48 pm

London-Manilla
London-Jakarta
Accra-Atlanta
Accra-Toronto
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
RL757PVD
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:40 pm

I dont care what AA says, im putting PVD-DFW down! I'll say PVD-IAH, PVD-DEN and PVD-LAX (redeye). Also regional (non-mainline) routes of PVD-RDU, PVD-PBI, PVD-JAX and PVD-ORF. (JAX and ORF have high O&D thanks to the Navy)
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:48 pm

RL757PVD you forgot PVD-FLL, always dropped but proven profitable. FLL-SFO is an untapped route (sans B6 to OAK)
FLL-SEA, FLL-SYR, FLL-BUF, FLL-GNV, FLL-SEA, FLL-MEX, FLL-CZM, FLL-CCS, HAV-FLL, HAV-MIA, HAV-JFK, HAV-ATL (in a perfect world of course)
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:53 pm

Any large city beyond the perimeter rules for DCA and LGA, i.e. DCA-SFO, LGA-LAX/SAN ... Also, a heck of a lot of routes from DAL Love Field.
 
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flying_727
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:19 pm

I think Allegiant or Air Tran could make money BMI-LAS

flying_727
On ATA, You're On Vacation
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:23 pm

LIS-HEL (to be introduced next year, as I heard through this online grapevine)
LIS-SVO/DME (currently only occasional service with Krasair) for flights to/from Brazil
LJU-MXP as a feeder
LIS-TXL/SXF
LIS-BSB
LIS-ATH, maybe
ANC-NRT (I think only KE flies E Asia-Alaska, but I may be mistaken)
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
mainMAN
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:32 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 16):
I dont care what AA says, im putting PVD-DFW down! I'll say PVD-IAH, PVD-DEN and PVD-LAX (redeye). Also regional (non-mainline) routes of PVD-RDU, PVD-PBI, PVD-JAX and PVD-ORF. (JAX and ORF have high O&D thanks to the Navy)

Surprising that PVD doesn't have these, or is it just too close to BOS? I'd also have either PVD or more likely BDL down for a seasonal (?) LGW service.

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 20):
LIS-HEL (to be introduced next year, as I heard through this online grapevine)
LIS-SVO/DME (currently only occasional service with Krasair) for flights to/from Brazil
LJU-MXP as a feeder
LIS-TXL/SXF
LIS-BSB
LIS-ATH, maybe

LIS - Porto Alegre and Belo Horizonte? Unless they already exist.

Also, LIS is only linked to London area airports now, there's nothing to MAN or BHX
 
bobnwa
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:35 pm

I'm confused, how do we know a route is profitable if no carrier currently flies it? If it was profitable in the past for a carrier, would they not still be flying it?

Again let me say, that only a very few people at an airline know whether a route is profitable or not.
 
cornish
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:38 pm

Quoting MainMAN (Reply 14):
Good one, didn't think of that. Given Taipei's position, it would otherwise have multiple dailies to all sorts of cities....Xi'an, Nanjing, Wuhan etc

And by definition we could say the same to a lesser degree for Kaoshiung (Taiwan) to the same mainland Chinese cities.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:46 pm

Quoting MainMAN (Reply 21):
Also, LIS is only linked to London area airports now, there's nothing to MAN or BHX

I think NI flies LIS-OPO-MAN, at least they did last year.
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
mainMAN
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:02 am

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 24):
I think NI flies LIS-OPO-MAN, at least they did last year.

NI did for years, but stopped earlier this year. Last May 2005, 4318 passengers used the service, which averages at 72 per flight; not quite enough to continue with a F100 unfortunately.
 
2travel2know
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:18 am

Has there ever been a MAD-LCY ?

Given CM PTY hub, IMHO flights between PTY and: AUA, CUR, BGI, GEO, PBM, SXM, SCU, GCM, BGA, VLN, CUE, IQT, AQP, VVI, ASU, COR, ROS, MDZ, POA, CNF, GIG, SSA, BSB, FOR, REC, BZE, MTY, GDL, TIJ, FLL, PBI, TPA, JAX, LAS, SFO/OAK, IAD/BWI, BOS/PVD, ORD, YYZ, YUL, YVR; also an stop in DAV on a couple of Centralamerican flights... may work someday.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
RL757PVD
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:23 am

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 17):
RL757PVD you forgot PVD-FLL, always dropped but proven profitable

PVD has daily NK flights to FLL, was 2x, the 2nd one is now seasonal due to NK's fleet crunch. RSW is also seasonal on NK
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:29 am

Quoting MainMAN (Reply 4):
LHR - DUR

 bouncy 

BA used to operate this route via JNB, and in fact I believe this once was a direct route. I've long been an advocate of reinstating the LHR-JNB-DUR route as Durban serves an even larger catchment area than Cape Town, and fuel is cheap there (the airport has a refinery for a neighbour with direct pipeline to the apron). Perhaps if the runway was lengthened, 744s could operate out of there with less weight restriction thus enabling greater economy on fuel purchase.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:39 am

Okay, unserved supposed profitable routes..

CRJ/ERJ/DH8/E20 routes..

RDU-EWN, SAV, SDF, YUL, MQI (Outer Banks)

E70/CR7 routes..

RDU-PVD, MSY, NAS, BUF, MCI, RSW

E90/CR9/717/DC9 routes...

RDU-CUN, SJU, MEX

737, 320Fam routes...

RDU-SFO/OAK, SEA(?)

757/767/777/330/340 routes..

RDU-FRA (subsidized)
Aiming High and going far..
 
RL757PVD
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:42 am

Quoting MainMAN (Reply 21):
Surprising that PVD doesn't have these, or is it just too close to BOS? I'd

Mostly due to airlines like AA, who had DFW and RDU and the planes were full. If planes are full and you arent making $$$ then someone in the pricing dept isnt doing their job. At one point PVD-RDU had more seats and more pax than BDL-RDU, the route which AA has kept.

IAH will likely be back within a year or two, BDL just got theirs back recently

DEN is only a matter of time given all the new competition there

PBI/ORF/RDU/JAX are all good 70 seat markets or WN routes. Id love to see US do some point to point stuff once they get the E-190s and free up some RJs.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
N353SK
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:18 am

JFK - SDA. That would be a gold mine if they could get it going.
 
b6sea
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:26 am

I think SEA could work as a hub to Asia if done correctly.

SEA-KIX (NW cancelled it in 2001)
SEA-NGO
SEA-FUK
SEA-GUM
SEA-Chinese cities
SEA-HKG
etc...

I think if Seattle was given the right feed, these flights would be excellent for business travelers who have to connect sinewhere because Seattle is much closer to Asia than Los Angeles and flight times/fuel consumption would be less for the pax who connect in LAX or SFO.

I know NW tried some of these routes along with UA but I believe the main flaw was that these flights were left to heavily rely on O/D traffic, which is only moderate. Part of the reason that I believe that the others haven't been tried (besides the Chinese routes) are that the feed to SEA just isn't there with minimal service to anywhere west of the Mississippi River.

-Chans
 
MAH4546
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:29 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 29):
RDU-FRA (subsidized)

If a flight has to be subsidized, it really isn't profitable.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 26):
Given CM PTY hub, IMHO flights between PTY and: AUA, CUR, BGI, GEO, PBM, SXM, SCU, GCM, BGA, VLN, CUE, IQT, AQP, VVI, ASU, COR, ROS, MDZ, POA, CNF, GIG, SSA, BSB, FOR, REC, BZE, MTY, GDL, TIJ, FLL, PBI, TPA, JAX, LAS, SFO/OAK, IAD/BWI, BOS/PVD, ORD, YYZ, YUL, YVR; also an stop in DAV on a couple of Centralamerican flights... may work someday.

A little over hopeful there. PTY-JAX? PTY-YVR? PTY-PVD? PTY-MDZ? PTY-PBI? Never in a million years, no matter how big the PTY hub gets. Others definitley show promise.
a.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:39 am

Quoting B6sea (Reply 32):
I think SEA could work as a hub to Asia if done correctly.

SEA-KIX (NW cancelled it in 2001)
SEA-NGO
SEA-FUK
SEA-GUM
SEA-Chinese cities
SEA-HKG
etc...

I think if Seattle was given the right feed, these flights would be excellent for business travelers who have to connect sinewhere because Seattle is much closer to Asia than Los Angeles and flight times/fuel consumption would be less for the pax who connect in LAX or SFO.

I know NW tried some of these routes along with UA but I believe the main flaw was that these flights were left to heavily rely on O/D traffic, which is only moderate. Part of the reason that I believe that the others haven't been tried (besides the Chinese routes) are that the feed to SEA just isn't there with minimal service to anywhere west of the Mississippi River.

Actually Seattle and SEA-TACs proximity to YVR is probably more of a factor here, just as SEA-TAC effects YVRs trans-border options for flights into the US.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
EddieDude
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:40 am

CCS-MTY I think. many a.netters mention that, when flying CCS-MEX, a large number of passengers i bound for MTY. If you add to these passengers those who fly via MIA with AA, perhaps you have a winner route.
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:47 am

For CRJ trans-border service as I've pointed out in other threads would be a YQL-SLC flight that DC/SkyWest could do very well with.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
Guest

RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:48 am

PAO-LAX =D


filler...filler...filler
 
masseybrown
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:53 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 22):
I'm confused, how do we know a route is profitable if no carrier currently flies it? If it was profitable in the past for a carrier, would they not still be flying it?

I think hundreds of routes are potentially profitable, but not as profitable as alternatives available to the airline's schedulers. CLE-SAN seems to be an example; it has decent traffic but a lower than average yield. Some years CO runs it and some years they don't - it depends on what their alternatives are.
 
Lt-AWACS
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:53 am

IAH to anywhere that has oil  Wink

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Watching you from 30,000 feet
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
wrighbrothers
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:05 am

Quoting MainMAN (Reply 4):
MAN-LAX

Believe it or not, BA used to serve that route !

Quoting ARGinLON (Reply 10):
wonder why BA does not operate to Guangzhou

Appart form the proffit reason, perhaps BA don't have enough spare aircrafts to operate these routes ?

I'd think Seoul-Pyongyang would be popular  Wink

Wrighbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:10 am

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 40):
I'd think Seoul-Pyongyang would be popular

Get rid of the monster regime with the rogue fireworks and it would be VERY popular!  idea 
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
wrighbrothers
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:18 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 41):
Get rid of the monster regime with the rogue fireworks and it would be VERY popular!

Haha, If we were allowed to go back in time, how about Saigon-Hanoi
or Mosscow-Washington.
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
nycflyer
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:32 am

Quoting N353SK (Reply 31):
JFK - SDA. That would be a gold mine if they could get it going.

I would put IAD-SDA (BGW) way before JFK-SDA. But Baghdad to just any major Mid East and Euro capital would do well.

Also:
FOK (Westhampton, NY) and HTO (East Hampton, NY) to LGA and BOS.
JFK - ZAG, (Croatia Airlines)
EWR - LOS (CO)
DTW - CAI (NW codesharing with MS)
YUL - BEY (AC/ME - too bad AC never did this)
JFK/EWR - BEY (CO/DL/ME)
ORD - IST (TH codesharing with AA)
ATL - CMN (RAM codesharing with DL)
IAD - DXB (EK)
JFK - DOH (QR)
ORD - BUD (Malev codesharing with AA)

am sure there are more, that's all I can think of now
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:37 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 33):
If a flight has to be subsidized, it really isn't profitable.

If a flight is already paid for and you get extra money on top, it's not profitable? How come?
Aiming High and going far..
 
MAH4546
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:40 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 44):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 33):
If a flight has to be subsidized, it really isn't profitable.

If a flight is already paid for and you get extra money on top, it's not profitable? How come?

It is only profitable to that one airline. The subsidy money has to come from somewhere to pay for the losses on the route, usually the community.

Saying "RDU-FRA would be profitable with subsidies" is pointless. Any route between any two cities in the world can be profitable with subsidies.
a.
 
2travel2know
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RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:42 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 33):
A little over hopeful there. PTY-JAX? PTY-YVR? PTY-PVD? PTY-MDZ? PTY-PBI? Never in a million years, no matter how big the PTY hub gets. Others definitley show promise

Well, about JAX, how many passengers fly between JAX and Latinamerica per week via ATL/MIA?; YVR - How easy is for those who need US visas to travel to/from YVR from Latinamerica/Caribbean without going thru YYZ? How many people will be very happy if CM was to fly to YVR even thrice weekly!; PVD was included as an alternate to fly to BOS, we both may agree that if some airline wants to serve the New England market BOS is the 1st choice, with some exceptions; I may agree with you on MDZ - it may not work if there're to many good conecting flights to/fr SCL (then lets talk about SLA/TUC 2-3 weekly  Wink ); PBI - When was the last time someone checked the Latino/Caribbean population in Palm Beach and surronding counties (aslo in + around JAX)? is on the rise. JAX and PBI wouldn't really need daily PTY flights, 3-4 weekly may be enough specially with good marketing / fares / connecting possibilities @ PTY plus both are within E190 range from PTY and could be operated daytime. Luckily for me, I didn't include RSW on my CM wish list, that would have been "the year of 6 Blue Moons".
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
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ERJ170
Posts: 5899
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:15 am

RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:46 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 45):
Any route between any two cities in the world can be profitable with subsidies.

Point taken.
Aiming High and going far..
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26128
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:58 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 46):
Well, about JAX, how many passengers fly between JAX and Latinamerica per week via ATL/MIA?

Nothing significant.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 46):
YVR - How easy is for those who need US visas to travel to/from YVR from Latinamerica/Caribbean without going thru YYZ?

Canadians don't need US Visas and there isn't significant Vancouver-LatAm traffic. Vancouver already has service to some Caribbean holiday resorts with Air Canada, non-stop.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 46):
may agree that if some airline wants to serve the New England market BOS is the 1st choice, with some exceptions;

Boston's Latin American market is not huge. AeroMexico was a huge flop in the market. TACA has done okay, though.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 46):
PBI - When was the last time someone checked the Latino/Caribbean population in Palm Beach and surronding counties (aslo in + around JAX)? is on the rise

PBI has FLL and MIA.

You are confusing Latin American communities and Mexican communities. Because in almost every case, America's Latin communities are made up largely of Mexicans. Miami, Tampa, New York/Newark, and Orlando are probably the only major exceptions to this.

You act as if Panama City has the power of Atlanta or O'Hare. It doesn't. A great hub, the easiest to use in all of Latin America, but not a superhub and it does not have very strong O&D from the US.

The fact remains US-LatAm traffic is heavily relegated to certain major markets, the largest of which Copa has covered (Miami, Orlando, New York City, Los Angeles, San Juan, and, via CO codeshare, Houston). And the more south into Latin America you go, the less and less traffic there is from non-core markets.

To demonstrate how unequally distributed USA-LatAm traffic is, roughly half of AA's Latin American traffic from their Miami hub comes locally. And the connecting passengers are largely represented by a total of ten markets: Boston (mainly just to Brazil), NYC, Orlando, Tampa, LA, Dallas, Chicago, DC, Madrid, and London.

In the US and Canada, Copa has a handful of areas to look into. Tampa is growing in its importance and ties with Latin America, so a few flights a week can let Copa tap into that market. Washington, D.C. cannot be ignored either, while Toronto, Fort Lauderdale, and Chicago also show promise.

I am very confident that within the next five-six years, Copa's US network won't grow by more than 5 cities, at most, probably less.
a.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26128
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Profitable City Pairs With No Service

Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:59 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 47):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 45):
Any route between any two cities in the world can be profitable with subsidies.

Point taken.

For the record, if AA ever pulls out of Raleigh-London, no doubt I feel Lufthansa could make Raleigh-Frankfurt work with a daily A330, without subsidies.
a.

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