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incitatus
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MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:33 am

DTW seems to be the stronger hub for NW with much more international service. As for domestic hubs there is a great overlap between MSP and DTW. It seems like DTW has more business traffic as well, but I could be wrong. If NW and US merge, which hub would have the greatest chance of thriving - based on geographic position and local traffic - at the expense of the other? Which one would be the best combination with Phoenix, Philadelphia and Charlotte?
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
rwsea
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:17 am

I think they both work just fine - MSP pulls in quite a bit of traffic from the plains states in addition to being a healthy O&D market. DTW obviously has healthy O&D plus lots of connecting opportunities.

I think in the event of a merger, PIT would be reduced to a spoke, and MEM would get cut way back.
 
zsx81
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:27 am

Did I miss something? Why is there a talk of NW/US merger so much all the sudden? Some sort of rumor floating around or are you guys just doing this so you can imagine 747s in US livery?
 
Braniff727
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:30 am

I would bet that if there was a merger the new airline would be named Northwest as they have far more name recognition outside the US, especially Asia.

I think the NW hubs would remain as is. They are way, way too dominant to cut back. When you have a monopoly, you hold on to it!
Climbing
 
gregarious119
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:53 am

I am a fan of NW, and yet the location of MSP has always baffled me as a hub. It seems to far north to be useful for the Great Plains, too far west to be useful for the Midwest, and too far east to be useful as a West Coast hub. Plus you have to overfly half of Canada to get to either ocean.

Just seems like a lot of extra flying to have a hub out between the Dakotas and Wisconsin.

On the other hand, having a combination of DTW (brand new facility, good capacity, not crowded airspace) and CLT would be a great choice - it sure would give them great positioning for most "east of the mississippi" destinations.
 
Garri767
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:59 am

Quoting Zsx81 (Reply 2):
Some sort of rumor floating around or are you guys just doing this so you can imagine 747s in US livery?

no imagination needed! looks nice to me !  Wink


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MalpensaSFO
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:08 am

In the case of a merger between US/NW it would be safe to say that the end would finally come to the long suffering Pittsburgh saga. Minneapolis would take a hit, as would Ft. Lauderdale. The foucused airline would operate three primary hubs and two secondary hubs and those being.

Primary

PHL or CLT
DTW
PHX

Secondary

LAS
CLT or PHL

Focus

MEM
MSP
IND
HNL

Charlotte or Philadelphia would have a loss of importance as PHL/DTW would be two hubs and the proximity would force one of the existing East Coast hubs of PHL, CLT, DTW to be terminated. The catch 22 is that CLT is perfect for North South connections on the East Cost, while PHL has the O/D for more international feed from East to West vv. It would also be safe to say that DCA, LGA, and BOS would all see a reduction in flights. Fleet synergy would not be a problem as both airlines have common types with the A330, A319, A320, 757 products. The existing 767's, 733's, 734's, DC-9's will be phased out over the next 2-10 years respectively as more A319, A320, A330, and the A350(if and when) come into play.

One other question would be what alliance this would fall into? SkyTeam has no true West Coast Hub, and Phoenix/Las Vegas could be the golden chance they have needed. Salt Lake City is much to inconvenient and involves and enormous amount of backtracking from say SFO to LAS or PHX to LAX. Safe to say that Phoenix and Las Vegas would gain the NRT frequencies that were once twice daily MSP-NRT service. PHX/LAS would also likely gain each one daily frequency to Amsterdam that was one the 2x daily MSP-AMS service.

This is one of the more interesting rumors to dawn its head. This will shape up in a very hot topic over the next few years if any of the talk is true.
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rwsea
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:12 am

Quoting Zsx81 (Reply 2):
Did I miss something? Why is there a talk of NW/US merger so much all the sudden? Some sort of rumor floating around or are you guys just doing this so you can imagine 747s in US livery?

Well ... US has stated that they'd like to talk to NW about merging when they come out of bankruptcy.

It actually makes a lot of sense - the fleets are very complimentary with the 319/320/757/333 as common types. US has a routemap that looks like a barbell - hubs on either side of the country with a great big gap in the middle. They have a strong European and Latin America/Caribbean operation. Meanwhile, NW is strongest in the center of the country, is a bit weaker to Europe (other than AMS), but is extremely strong in Asia. The route map is a perfect overlap.

The stickiest issues would be integrating the corporate cultures (NW's management doesn't exactly have a stellar relationship with employees). Additionally, the new airline might have to exit Star Alliance because UA and NW would virtually dominate all US-Asia traffic other than a few odd flights to NRT and China. Finally, the new airline would need to come up with a plan to phase out those pesky DC9's and reinvest in the domestic fleet.
 
saab2000
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:23 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 7):
Finally, the new airline would need to come up with a plan to phase out those pesky DC9's and reinvest in the domestic fleet.

US Airways and I think NWA both have significant orders out for EMB-190s. That would be a good replacement aircraft for the DC-9s when the time comes in about 25 years or so that the DC-9s start to get old.
smrtrthnu
 
kyair
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:30 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 7):
They have a strong European and Latin America/Caribbean operation

I don't consider what US has to be a "strong" European operation. They do have several flights to the big cities, but nothing in comparison to DL or CO. They are increasing service with the ex-ATA 752s, but still not what I'd consider strong. They are stronger in the Caribbean, but are still beat there by AA.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened - Dr. Seuss
 
SESGDL
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:23 am

As the larger O&D market as well as NW's largest O&D market and headquarters, MSP wouldn't go anywhere and neither would DTW. There's no overlap with MSP, DTW, PHL, and CLT. NW's Midwest presence combined with the large East/West presence of US would make a perfect airline. MEM would likely be consolidated, but the hubs would come out looking like this:

MSP
DTW
PHL
CLT
PHX
LAS

Jeremy
 
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ERJ170
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:30 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 10):
but the hubs would come out looking like this:

MSP
DTW
PHL
CLT
PHX
LAS

I don't know if I would agree.. I think it would probably look like this..

Hubs:
PHX #4
CLT #1
PHL #2
DTW #3

Focus Cities:
DCA #7
LGA #8
LAS #5
MSP #6

Thought Cities (not quite a focus on but with decent # of flights):
PIT #12
BOS #10
LAX#9


Dropped:
IND
MKE
FLL
PDX
SEA
Aiming High and going far..
 
gigneil
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:33 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 6):
Minneapolis would take a hit, as would Ft. Lauderdale.

Lets all repeat after me.

There is no FLL.

N
 
usairways85
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:40 am

Well, FLL is already in the process in being dropped; PDX isn't really a focus city with flts to hubs and HNL, NRT; SEA just about the same, a few non hub flts, i honestly think PIT should be dropped, LAX is just some non hub flts to Hawaii but not really a focus city.
 
SESGDL
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:45 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 11):
I don't know if I would agree.. I think it would probably look like this..

Hubs:
PHX #4
CLT #1
PHL #2
DTW #3

Focus Cities:
DCA #7
LGA #8
LAS #5
MSP #6

Why would one of the true "fortress" hubs in America (MSP) (which also has some of the highest fares) which is also NW's hub with the largest O&D numbers become a focus city? MSP has more O&D than DTW with a lot less competition. That just doesn't make sense at all to me.

Jeremy
 
SonOfACaptain
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:48 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 12):
Lets all repeat after me.

There is no FLL.

There is no FLL.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 7):
The stickiest issues would be integrating the corporate cultures (NW's management doesn't exactly have a stellar relationship with employees).

Actually, I don't see this as a the major problem. NW employee's would kill to have a different management, and Parker and co. without-a-doubt will be at the healm when the dust settles.

I liken it to the US/HP merger. Two very different cultures, with the US side losing all its trust in its management, but coming together under the new rulers. Of course, this doesn't mean the cultures haven't clashed....because they have.  Smile

-SOAC
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
 
rwsea
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:35 am

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 13):
Well, FLL is already in the process in being dropped; PDX isn't really a focus city with flts to hubs and HNL, NRT; SEA just about the same, a few non hub flts, i honestly think PIT should be dropped, LAX is just some non hub flts to Hawaii but not really a focus city.

Why would they dump their flights from SEA-AMS or SEA-NRT? These flights are very profitable and contribute to NW's strong presence in the area. It would be foolish to dump them. If it's making money, don't mess with it. Same with HNL.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:41 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 14):
Why would one of the true "fortress" hubs in America (MSP) (which also has some of the highest fares) which is also NW's hub with the largest O&D numbers become a focus city? MSP has more O&D than DTW with a lot less competition. That just doesn't make sense at all to me.

I'm aging, but if you were around when the Brady Bunch was on, you might remember the time when Greg was chosen to be the new "Johnny Bravo". As it turns out, he was chosen because "he fit the suit."

I guess MSP doesn't "fit the suit". In other words: the route map is prettier without it.  Smile

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
SESGDL
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:47 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 17):
I guess MSP doesn't "fit the suit". In other words: the route map is prettier without it. Smile

That was a joke right? This thread asks what would become of MSP and DTW in the case of a US/NW merger.

In all seriousness though, I want to know why people think MSP would be reduced to a focus city when it is currently the largest O&D market, largest hub by passengers carried, largest by destinations served, and the headquarters of NW.

Jeremy
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:52 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 17):
I guess MSP doesn't "fit the suit". In other words: the route map is prettier without it.



Quoting SESGDL (Reply 18):
That was a joke right?

Yes, hence the smile.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 18):
In all seriousness though, I want to know why people think MSP would be reduced to a focus city when it is currently the largest O&D market, largest hub by passengers carried, largest by destinations served, and the headquarters of NW.

I was starting to reply earlier in this thread with the same question, but just moved on instead. I agree, from everything I've heard MSP is a great market, regardless of it's hub status. Lots of O&D, nice terminal, etc. DTW from the sound of it has less O&D, which has always surprised me.

My "joke" above was tongue-in-cheek: I think people look at the combined hub map and think that you can only have certain numbers of hubs or certain geometric patterns (i.e. triangles) in order to be successful. I was merely poking fun at that.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
UNITED777ORD
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:01 am

If US/NW merge, MSP and DTW are two hubs in the midwest that will greatly improve the efficiency and reach of the US route network. Both DTW and MSP should be kept as hubs because PHL is congested and diverting DTW traffic into PHL is stupid when DTW has a brand new terminal and efficient parallel runways. IMO some PHL traffic should be moved to DTW until PHL builds a new airport or builds more runways. The delays are costing US.


HUBS: CLT, PHL, DTW, MSP, PHX, NRT
FOCUS CITIES: LAS, MEM, PIT, DCA, LGA, BOS, LAX, IND, SEA

Domestic Pacific Gateways:
SEA-NRT
PHX-NRT
LAS-NRT
DTW-all current pacific gateways
CLT-NRT
PHL-NRT
MSP-NRT
BOS-NRT

Domestic European Gateways:
CLT-all current european gateways+ CDG
DTW-all current european gateways
PHL-all current european gateways
PHX-FRA, LGW, CDG,
LAS-FRA, CDG, LGW
MSP-all current european gateways
PIT-LGW

Aircraft:
A319/320/321/332/333
B733*/734*/752/753/787
D9S*/D94*/D95*
CRJ/CR7/CR9
E70/E95
DH8/DH3

*The B733/734 and D9S/D94/D95 would be retired if the two carriers were to merge.

I hope this happens and hopefully US will still remain in the Star Alliance. NW/US merger would kick some..lol....but United will always be my airline.

-United777ORD-
 
FCYTravis
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:03 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 6):
It would also be safe to say that DCA, LGA, and BOS would all see a reduction in flights.

Um, why is it safe to say that US would get rid of what has to be one of the brightest jewels in the tarnished Northeast crown - that is, their focus city operations at an extremely-slot-restricted Washington National Airport? DCA is *growing* under the new US management, not shrinking. Controlling 26 percent of the traffic in and out of DCA is not something one just throws away. Remember, the shutdown of National post-9/11 was one of the major factors in driving US into bankruptcy.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:19 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 21):
Um, why is it safe to say that US would get rid of what has to be one of the brightest jewels in the tarnished Northeast crown - that is, their focus city operations at an extremely-slot-restricted Washington National Airport?

Exactly. With control over so many of the slots, they can "right size" the aircraft to the route and focus on holding on to as much O&D as possible. Throw some of the new E-jets onto the routes too light for an A319 or 733 and both make money and keep a competitor from adding one more flight.

Quoting United777ORD (Reply 20):
IMO some PHL traffic should be moved to DTW until PHL builds a new airport or builds more runways.

Seems logical to push some of the non-critical connecting traffic out to DTW, though this is a similar role to PIT and that didn't get them very far. I guess with the scale of the operation at DTW, and perhaps with a little more O&D, it can do what PIT ultimately couldn't: Compliment, rather than compete with, PHL and CLT.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
usairways85
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:47 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 16):
Why would they dump their flights from SEA-AMS or SEA-NRT? These flights are very profitable and contribute to NW's strong presence in the area. It would be foolish to dump them. If it's making money, don't mess with it. Same with HNL.

Did I ever say they should get rid of these flts. I was merely stating that these cities are not focus cites (PDX, SEA). They are simply cities with some non-hub flts.

Quoting United777ORD (Reply 20):
PHL is congested and diverting DTW traffic into PHL is stupid

I agree and disagree. Some domestic connections that go through PHL now should be moved to DTW which does have a much better location for connections, at least east-west. However, PHL is in a much better location for European connections and so while MSP and DTW would probably retain some European Ops, PHL would ultimately become the major transatlantic gateway.

Quoting United777ORD (Reply 20):
DTW has a brand new terminal and efficient parallel runways. IMO some PHL traffic should be moved to DTW until PHL builds a new airport or builds more runways. The delays are costing US.

Terminals are not a huge factor. While DTW does have a very nice facility, PHL does have two new terminals as well although probably not as easy to navigate. Also don't throw statements around that the delays are costing US unless you can back it up. It has been said that PHL US' number one money generating hub. The delays certainly don't help and if they are ever reduced US would probably make more money, but you talk of the delays as if it is a main problem and is causing US to lose money hand over fist. If it were that big of a problem and not even PHL's O&D market could overcome it then they would have choose PIT not PHL.
 
rwsea
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:34 am

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 23):
I was merely stating that these cities are not focus cites (PDX, SEA). They are simply cities with some non-hub flts.

PDX certainly is not a focus city. SEA is debatable - flights to AMS/NRT/HNL/OGG/IND in addition to the hubs. Maintenance base and FA base. Additionally, high frequencies to the hubs (ex. SEA-MSP is 10x daily, entirely with a mix of 752/753). Quite a few connecting pax to Hawaii and Asia, as well as persistent rumors of increased frequencies to NRT, and potentially flights to KIX or CDG. That's a pretty significant operation.
 
UNITED777ORD
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:44 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 22):
Seems logical to push some of the non-critical connecting traffic out to DTW, though this is a similar role to PIT and that didn't get them very far. I guess with the scale of the operation at DTW, and perhaps with a little more O&D, it can do what PIT ultimately couldn't: Compliment, rather than compete with, PHL and CLT.

Thank you for your comment.

IMO At PIT, I think the new US needs to continue operating the routes that are profitable for them. If NW/US merge, the number of flights could possibly be increased if US shifts some PHL traffic to DTW/PIT. However, DTW would get more of the traffic from PHL than PIT would. Currently, US offers 162 daily flights out of PIT so after the NW/US merger that number could possibly go up to 200 daily flights without affecting the hub at DTW.

PHL is just too darn congested and US is growing in PHL. If the airport authority does not want to aid in the growth then some of the PHL domestic traffic needs to be shifted to DTW and PIT. Currently, US has 448 daily flights out of PHL. After NW/US merge that number may be scaled down to 375. The primary reason PHL is congested is because they are responding to the growth of SWA.

Here is my daily flight hub operations prediction after NW/US merge:

CLT-575
DTW-550
MSP-425
PHL-375
PHX-400

Focus cities:
BOS-110
DCA-175
IND-65
LAX-50
LGA-180
MEM-95
PIT-190
SEA-50

These are just my projections.

-United777ORD-
 
FCYTravis
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:57 am

Quoting United777ORD (Reply 25):
CLT-575
DTW-550
MSP-425
PHL-375
PHX-400

Umm... that would be +75 dailies at PHX, -75 at PHL, and I don't see that at all. PHL's huge O&D market, the strong transatlantic base and the overall investment that the airline has made into the airport mean that despite the operational issues, you're not going to see that kind of pulldown there. If anything, you will see more flights to PHL connecting to the West Coast.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
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centrair
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:08 am

Quoting United777ORD (Reply 20):
Aircraft:
A319/320/321/332/333
B733*/734*/752/753/787
D9S*/D94*/D95*
CRJ/CR7/CR9
E70/E95
DH8/DH3

What happened to the 744s?

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 18):
currently the largest O&D market, largest hub by passengers carried, largest by destinations served, and the headquarters of NW.

As for MSP...HUB. DTW has the automakers and suppliers, but MSP is 8th when it comes to Fortune 500 HQ. (Cities with five or more FORTUNE 500 headquarters DTW is not even in the list.

Just a few to help us along:
Target
United Health Group
Best Buy
St. Paul Travelers Cos.
General Mills
3M
Medtronic
NWA

Top 10 cities with 5 or more Fortune 500 corporations

New York 44
Houston 23
Atlanta 14
Dallas 11
Chicago 10
Charlotte 7
Cincinnati 7
Minneapolis 7
Philadelphia 7
Richmond 7

Might notice a few US cities in there as well.

If there were to be a US/NW merger, I would hope that they go to Skyteam. Star is strong in Asia but without NW Skyteam is pretty weak. It serves more Asian cities from the US than any other Skyteam member. If NW left Skyteam, KE would have to pick up the slack. NW is UA's competition for Asia. Put them both in Star and there would be massive overlap.
My name is Centrair but HND is closer. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
usairways85
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:15 am

I don't know, but with all these major cities wouldn't it make sense that getting from pt A to pt B would be even more efficient on one airline with many more connecting options. Thus, would flt numbers be this high? Given my theory they would all come down a little.

Think about it. Someone on US now has PHL, CLT, PHX, and LAS(?) as main transfer points, then add in MSP and DTW and not to mention the half dozen focus cities.

I'm just throwing this thought out there. But i certainly don't see CLT and DTW being that high.
 
UNITED777ORD
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:03 am

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 28):
I'm just throwing this thought out there. But i certainly don't see CLT and DTW being that high.

I disagree. US currently has 522 flights out of CLT so 575 after the NW/US merge is a reasonable number. Charlotte is growing and since US significantly scaled back FLL, CLT is going to be the focus for destinations in Latin America and the Carribean. NW has over 500 out of DTW daily and if the merged NW/US shifts flights from PHL to DTW 550 is a reasonable estimate.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 27):
What happened to the 744s?

I forgot about the 744s. They will be in the fleet if NW/US merge.
 
KarlB737
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:04 am

Quoting United777ORD (Reply 20):
Aircraft:
A319/320/321/332/333
B733*/734*/752/753/787
D9S*/D94*/D95*
CRJ/CR7/CR9
E70/E95
DH8/DH3

*The B733/734 and D9S/D94/D95 would be retired if the two carriers were to merge.

And in your opinion what would become of Pinnacle and Mesaba?
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:19 am

Question:

which name would remain: US or NW?
 
D L X
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:24 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 6):
PHL/DTW would be two hubs and the proximity would force one of the existing East Coast hubs of PHL, CLT, DTW to be terminated.

United has IAD and ORD. The two hubs DTW and PHL would serve different purposes. (And it's a lot better than having PHL and PIT.)

I'd bet that a merger of the likes of NW/US would instantly create another UA or AA. Star Alliance would not be pleased one bit.

Don't worry about fleet though, seriously. Planes are leased, so planes can be exchanged. It's not cost free, but it's not like you have to find buyers for all your planes.
 
UNITED777ORD
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:33 am

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 30):
And in your opinion what would become of Pinnacle and Mesaba?

IMO I think Pinnacle and Mesaba would merge and become Mesaba-Pinnacle Airlines. So for the new NW/US the regional airlines would be:

Air Wisconsin
Chautauqua
Colgan
Mesa
Mesaba-Pinnacle
PSA
Piedmont
Republic

It would be nice if NW/US bought Air Wis, Colgan, Mesa, Mesaba-Pinnacle, PSA, and Piedmont but I highly doubt it. I have a good feeling that NW/US are going to merge...

Just my predictions...
-United777ORD-
 
FCYTravis
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:43 am

CLT would grow because it would pick up the slack from the pulldown of MEM, and it's a strong SE connecting hubsite to begin with. Weather-free, no operational issues and it's as much of a fortress for US as MSP is for NW, albeit without as much O&D.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
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centrair
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:47 am

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 31):
which name would remain: US or NW?

I guess it would depend on the direction of the merger. If US merges with NW, then they become NW. If NW merges with US, then they become US. But merging doesn't take in linguistics. They come together. So they could go either way. NW has the legacy name. It has been around much much longer than US. It has recognition in Europe and Asia.

If I were to go by livery, then US. I think it is much nicer than a big silver plane with a red tail. The US colors are calming. But the red tail is famous.

Maybe they ditch both names and come out as a whole new airline: US Northwest or Northwest Airways or Merger Airways. Or cooler...buy out the Republic name and put it back as a mainline company. Both Airlines have a history with a "Republic" airline. NW bought Republic back in the 80s and US uses the newer Republic for regional. Republic International Airways.
My name is Centrair but HND is closer. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
FCYTravis
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:48 am

Quoting United777ORD (Reply 33):
It would be nice if NW/US bought Air Wis, Colgan, Mesa, Mesaba-Pinnacle, PSA, and Piedmont but I highly doubt it. I have a good feeling that NW/US are going to merge...

Er, US already owns PSA and Piedmont.

No airline is going to buy up all their regional carriers. That would eliminate the whipsaw effect.  Yeah sure
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
gregarious119
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:17 am

Quoting Centrair (Reply 35):
If I were to go by livery, then US. I think it is much nicer than a big silver plane with a red tail. The US colors are calming. But the red tail is famous.

So how's about one of these livery guru's around here throw's together something that fits that? Keep most of the US basic livery but switch the tail to red. Maybe throw the NW circle around the US flag on the tail (convenient that the flag would "point" to the NW if you put the circle in the right spot). Maybe even try changing the white to "pearl white" or whatever NW has.

Changing the name to NW Airways makes most sense to me.

I'd love to see someone with a few minutes put this together...any takers?
 
jdwfloyd
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:30 pm

The name would be USAirways. Parker likes the feel of a non-regional name such as NW or HP. Its very important to them to project a feeling of a world wide carrier.

If this were to turn into a merger I think the hubs would look something like this.

Main Hubs
CLT
PHL
MSP
PHX

Secondary Hubs focused more on OD
LAS
DCA
DTW
LGA


Focus Cities w. mainly service to large metro areas and other hubs
PIT
BOS
LAX
PDX
MEM


The fleet would hopefully look like this after a few years

744 or even 748s in the future
787s
752 and 753

333 and 332
321 320 and 319
190 and 195

Express
CRJs 200 700 and 900
170
Q300 and Q400
 
HPRamper
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:38 pm

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 31):
Question:

which name would remain: US or NW?

I say US. It is an all-encompassing name, while Northwest has regional tones, just like America West had. What I want to know is what would happen with KLM? Would the new airline keep the hub at AMS or abandon it?
 
usairways85
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:55 pm

Quoting United777ORD (Reply 29):
CLT is going to be the focus for destinations in Latin America and the Carribean

CLT is already the focus for Latin America and the Caribbean and US serves just about every destination they can from CLT. Some of the FLL routes were mainly there to catch the high O&D numbers, numbers that CLT nor PHL could even come close to.

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 34):
CLT would grow because it would pick up the slack from the pulldown of MEM, and it's a strong SE connecting hubsite to begin with. Weather-free, no operational issues and it's as much of a fortress for US as MSP is for NW, albeit without as much O&D.

Alright, i'll buy that. After thinking about it, west of the Rockies US/NW would be predominately in the north, with CLT as the southern most hub. MSP, DTW, PHL, BOS, LGA, DCA(?), PIT(?) all pretty much in the north.
 
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centrair
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:09 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 39):
What I want to know is what would happen with KLM? Would the new airline keep the hub at AMS or abandon it?

I believe the agreement between NW and KL is up soon. KL merged with AF and AF had better relations with DL which they would like to continue, but laws say otherwise. If a merger were to happen, I think the KL tie would be broken but then US could move over to Skyteam and have better relations with all skyteam members. The AMS hub would cease and everything would move to CDG as AF is a lead member of Skyteam and owner of KLM.

US moving to Skyteam would be very helpful. Though US compliments UA in some areas of the country, by merging with NW they would be in direct, heavy competition with UA. They would have more slots in Japan and access to more of Asia. They would also have a stronger European system.

The only problem with abandoning AMS is the rights. NW has 5th freedom from AMS to other parts of Europe and beyond. I don't think they have this via CDG.
My name is Centrair but HND is closer. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
jdwfloyd
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:00 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 41):
US moving to Skyteam would be very helpful.

I would like to see US stay in Star. I think a combined US/NW would fit better into star due to the increased pressence at NRT and the EU routes that US has already set up.
 
N908AW
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:34 pm

Quoting Gregarious119 (Reply 4):
I am a fan of NW, and yet the location of MSP has always baffled me as a hub. It seems to far north to be useful for the Great Plains, too far west to be useful for the Midwest, and too far east to be useful as a West Coast hub.

Then wouldn't that make it perfect to tap into all three regions if it was "just beyond reach" of the three?

 stirthepot 

We don't have very many Midwestern hubs left. Without MSP and DTW both firmly in place, UA and AA would be the only two carriers fit to establish a presence in the North Central...and UA already has pointed out they don't want a huge presence. There is money to be made up here too, you know.
'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
 
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centrair
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:37 pm

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 42):
I would like to see US stay in Star. I think a combined US/NW would fit better into star due to the increased pressence at NRT and the EU routes that US has already set up.

Though it would be nice...Increased pressence at NRT? Star already has NH and UA. UA has 5th freedom and NH is a hometown airline. T1's new wing doesn't have room for NW. NW has its own wing. They basically OWNED T1 till recently.

NW's routes don't compliment Star in Asia what so ever. UA has the same freedom rights as NW and NH, SQ, Asiana and TG can handle the rest of Asia pretty well. I would bet that Japanese government would penalize UA or NW because they would not only be codesharing, but profit sharing and creating a monopoly on the Japanese market. It would actually hurt Star.

Skyteam has only NW and KE in Asia. I would bet Skyteam would bend over backwards to keep NW/US. CO and DL can't cover it. They don't have 5th freedoms and their routes from US mainland to Asia can be counted on one hand.

Don't get me wrong. I love Star but it would be a mess if a merged NW/US were to stay in Star.
My name is Centrair but HND is closer. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
D L X
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RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:28 am

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 42):
I would like to see US stay in Star. I think a combined US/NW would fit better into star due to the increased pressence at NRT and the EU routes that US has already set up.

You'd have severe antitrust problems with US staying in Star after buying NW. Japan rights would be the most obvious example.
 
N908AW
Posts: 864
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:05 pm

RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:11 am

Of course, a US/NW combination would basically offer about as much as an alliance anyway.  Smile
'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
 
malexander131
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:50 am

RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:29 am

Are any of NW's NRT slots transferrable? If US were to acquire NW, I would think they'd try and move the Tokyko frequencies to PHL and/or CLT along with PHX.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 39):
I say US. It is an all-encompassing name, while Northwest has regional tones, just like America West had

In any case, I'd see US being the controlling party of such a new operation, with the name staying US Airways.

I could see the hubs going something like this:

PRIMARY HUBS: CLT, PHL, PHX, MSP
SECONDARY HUBS: LAS, DTW
FOCUS CITIES: DCA, LGA, BOS

CLT is too much of a fortress for US to give up, and the PHL won't go anywhere because of O&D, and also because of the European operation.
"It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilots sit, but that's not important right now."
 
PHLBOS
Posts: 6520
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:38 am

RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:20 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 39):
What I want to know is what would happen with KLM? Would the new airline keep the hub at AMS or abandon it?

Would NW's BOS-AMS route survive a US merger?
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
MalpensaSFO
Posts: 1110
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:17 am

RE: MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger

Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:36 am

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 48):
Would NW's BOS-AMS route survive a US merger?

If SkyTeam was the alliance of choice..
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